BRING THEM HOME-THE COLOMBIA 3

by Let them stand trial Tue Nov 19, 2002 15:02

Well, if they weren't in Columbia with FALSE PASSPORTS in a FARC CONTROLLED AREA, they wouldn't be in the mess they're currently in now. Remember that FARC mortared a church and murdered over 100 people a few months ago. The murderous technology used to murder these innocent people had never been used by FARC until these 3 men came along - it was only after the IRA, sorry, "Columbia" 3 came along did they suddenly figure out how to use mortars...

They may not get a fair trial in Columbia. If that is so, then you should be campaigning for a trial in a neutral country.

THERE IS NO WAY THEY SHOULD BE BROUGHT HOME AS FREE MEN, WITHOUT CHARGE OR TRIAL.

by pat c Tue Nov 19, 2002 16:28

Let them stand trial seems intent on repeating himself and spreading disinformation. I suggest people come along and make their own minds up.

Liam Craig Best of the Colombian Peace Association who has spent the last two years in Colombia providing human rights protection to the leader of the main trade union in Colombia the CUT. He is speaking. Are you suggesting he is an IRA mouthpiece?

Andy Higginbottom of the Colombian Solidarity Campaign will also speak. His organisation has been actively involved in supporting the trade union movement in Colombia and has recently developed links with trade union activists in Ireland. Is he also an IRA apologist?

When FARC formed a political party, 3,000 of their members were murdered. Colombia is not a democracy. Anyone who stands up against the military or the the rightwing death squads is automatically under a sentence of death.

It interesting to see that the Colombian Military and the Fascist Death Squads have their suporters on indymedia.

by 3 'RA-heads in trouble - ha ha ha! Tue Nov 19, 2002 17:26

There's no supporters of "Colombian Military and the Fascist Death Squads" here - just amusement in seeing 3 blatant IRA men/Terrorist instructors getting caught in the act. And I'd feel the same if any Loyalist terrorists got caught in Columbia. Not really much difference between the two.

by pat c Tue Nov 19, 2002 17:43

this is exactly the sort of "logic" which convicted the birmingham 6 & guilford 4. they're irish so they are obviously guilty.

obviously the southern unionists on indymedia do not believe that people are entitled to the presumption of innocence.

of course, there was no response about the 3,000 members of farc who were gunned down by death squads, when farc formed a political party.

or why liam best & aidan higgingbottom would be speaking in defense of the colombia 3.

in effect you do support the state & parastate death squads.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Nov 19, 2002 18:21 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Today's Irish Times -

Former Guildford 4 prisoner Paul Hill is to join a delegation travelling to Bogota later this month for the resumption of the trial of the three Irish men in Colombia.

Mr Hill said last night: "As a victim of an unfair trial, I want to do everything to ensure that the same thing does not happen to these three Irishmen as happened to me."

Pat C, the comparison to the Guildford 4 clearly occured to one of them as well. The people laughing at the men in Colombia today are politically, the same people who laughed at the Guildford 4 and the Birmingham 6. Some things never change.

by Irish 1 Tue Nov 19, 2002 18:23

Nobody ever said they were guilty. Especially not me. I just believe they SHOULD NOT be brought home without a trial.

Best solution is to try them in a neutral country. But they have to be tried for allegedly carrying false passports and aid FARC terrorist SCUM. For that reason, the "Bring them Home" campaign is a farce.

by pat c Tue Nov 19, 2002 18:33

do you have that they were aiding farc?

many people carry false passports. asylum seekers do. should asylum seekers who carry false passports be tried?

why do you call farc terrorists?

you dont have much to say about the state & rightwing death squads. you haven't mentioned the 3,000 farc members who were massacred when they operated as an open political party.

by Jim Monaghan Tue Nov 19, 2002 18:35

By referring to FARC scum the correspondent has made a judgement on the relative merits of the FARC versus the Government. Given the evidence the Government is responsible for most of the violence etc.
The FARC have been fighting for longer than the Northern war. With sympathy form other insurgent groups much closer than Ireland they hardly needed much advice form here, and Spanish speaking as well.
My namesake is obviously in poor physical shape and needs support to prevent his death in a Columbian prison.
But then those who take their read on situations like this from the American State department are hardly open to persuasion
Jim Monaghan

by MG Tue Nov 19, 2002 19:04

From what I read in the South American media, the right-wing paramilitaries had established a base inside the church in question after taking over the town where it was situated. They set up sandbagged defensive positions outside and then herded the villagers into the building.

Whether or not the FARC were aware of the civilians inside, I don't know. But the presence of armed paramilitaries certainly changes my perspective. I'm not defending FARC, I think the killing of 100+ civilians is indefensible, even if it was not deliberate. But this idea that the FARC mortared a civilian church out of pure "evil" is misleading and false.

by anon Tue Nov 19, 2002 19:33

martin maccauley was forced to leave northern ireland a few years back due to his involvement in the IRA. he moved to naas, co.kildare where he used a letter of recommendation to gain bank accounts and housing accomodation in naas from current finance minister, charlie mccreevy, mccreevy is a well known closet supporter of republican activities in kildare in the 1980's and 1990's, often sending his then wife to demonstrations in support of h blockers in naas to give money on his behalf, obviously he was unable to do so in public. martin has amused many of his comrade's in the pub's of naas with stories of gun running, smuggling and other such activities in the north before coming down here. martin also claimed to be an active member of the ira.

naas appears to have a history of this sort of activity, for example many of the members of the general's gang lived in naas under practical protection of the garda during the 1980's

by jonnie Tue Nov 19, 2002 19:59

are youse saying that charlie mccreevy was involved in harbouring some of the generals gang??? jeez it just gets worse, although maybe he's got some dosh stashed away from those days he could lend to the government to stop em going broke.

by Mags Tue Nov 19, 2002 20:11

Nuke Naas then! Obviously full of Provos, criminals, and other scums. Get sense. You hear something that someone said and believe it, so it proves years later that someone else must be doing something somewhere.

I remember this sort of crap talk. When tens of thousands of homes were raided and wrecked, children terrorised, and people held, beaten and some imprisoned in 'Operation Mallard' in the late 1980s I clearly recall loads of politicians defending it on the media. Along the lines of 'sure they must have been up to something...sure they wouldn't have been raided unless there was something suspicious...nothing for ordinary people to worry about...the civil liberties people have a hidden agenda...shitetalk'.

A young Republican was arrested in Dubin last week and was savagely beaten by the Guards to the extent that he had to get 5 stitches and had red boot marks down his back.

But youse all come on a whinge about the cops beating up RTS people on Dame street and how they were all innocent and so forth. And of course the cops shouldn't have batonned people in this way. The same way they shouldn't have battered the Republican. The same way the three fellas in Colombia have a right to a fair trial etc, not one conducted to the interests of American imperialism and the Colombian regime. Lucky the prosecution is not gathering its evidence from the Dail and this website.

Please be consistent in your liberalism. And no, I don't support SF or the 'RA, in case it is of any interest.

by manuela koen Tue Nov 19, 2002 20:46

everyone deserves a fair trial, and under such a repressive junta dictatorship, these 3 innocent men, will not get a fair trial. After watching footage of the state junta organised demos against the 3 innocent irish men, i asked my Colombian friend why there were no counter demos in support of the 3 innocent irish men, she said'becos any opposition protest in support of the 3 irishmen, to the junta state demo would be violently attacked, and not only that, given the current political repression in Colombia, those identified as participating in any demo in support of the irishmen, would be disappeared, face brutal retaliation, torture and persecution by the right wing militia juntas'. We've seen similar situations in El salvador, mexico, Chile and the carribean, i've seen photos of peasant sandanista wimin in El salvador, with their faces melted to the bone, dissolved beyond recognition, in acid attacks carried out by the junta. The sadistic torture and brutality of the juntas and right wing militias is very very real.

by iosaf Wed Nov 20, 2002 11:18

bring them home.
I shall publish an interview with the prison leader of FARC later this week.
Ireland has a political prison for political prisoners. I see no reason why Irish men or women should be held in prisons in Colombia any more than any other country with such human rights records.
If you want to bring them home to try them do so.
If you want to bring them home to punch them do so
IF you want to bring them home to fete them do so
If you want to bring them home to highlight Columbia do so.
Just get them home.
Find an Irishman or Irish woman who has been imprisoned in a third world country.
"make a comparative study".
I am with Paul Hill on this one.

by Gerry Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:43

"in effect you do support the state & parastate death squads."

Ah yes, the old if-you-don't-support-us-then-you-must-support-them logic. Well, I don't support IRA - in fact I think they're scumbags. But guess what, I feel the same way towards the UVF/LVF, etc. In fact, I think they're worse. Ditto with FARC, and the Columbian junta. Even someone with the low intelligence of an IRA/RIRA/UVF/LVF supporter should understand this.

But the fact remains, if the 3 'Ra-heads in Columbia are guilty of assisting FARC Terrorist drug-dealing scum, they should be put on trial - perferably in a neutral country.

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 13:05

So Gerry says

"if the 3 'Ra-heads in Columbia are guilty of assisting FARC Terrorist drug-dealing scum, they should be put on trial"

Do you not understand that the purpose of a trial is to determine if the accused are GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY?. But you have decided beforehand.

by Gerry Wed Nov 20, 2002 14:01

"Do you not understand that the purpose of a trial is to determine if the accused are GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY?. But you have decided beforehand. "

Apologies, should have read...

But the fact remains, if the 3 'Ra-heads in Columbia are SUSPECTED of assisting FARC Terrorist drug-dealing scum, they should be put on trial - perferably in a neutral country.

by pat c Wed Nov 20, 2002 14:22

"But the fact remains, if the 3 'Ra-heads in Columbia are SUSPECTED of assisting FARC Terrorist drug-dealing scum, they should be put on trial - perferably in a neutral country."

but what evidence is there? none!

yes they were travelling on false passports. any sane person who was an enemy of the state & rightwing death squads would travel on a false passport there.

you keep ignoring the fact that the colombian state & its rightwing paramilitary counter gangs are responsble for the vast majority of deaths in colombia.

when farc formed a political party and attempted tto participate in unarmed politics, 3,000 of their members were gunned down by the death squads.

the fact that you continue to ignore this implies that you are a tacit supporter of the state & rightwiung death squads.

colombia is not a democracy & the farc are not terrorists.

by Durutti Column Wed Nov 20, 2002 14:28

He keeps putting in the same crap under different names. I wouldnt say he works for the US or anyone else, just a sad loner who likes to kick people whwn they are down.

He is just the type who used to say that the Birmingham 6 were guilty, your typical Sun reader.

Go back to your porn sites Gerry or whatever your name is; you are not wanted here.

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 15:00

You mean the Birmingham Six were Not Guilty! When was this revealed -'tis a disgrace!

Sure there was forensic evidence against them and most of them were from the North. Some of them collected money for Republican prisoners. They drank in Republican pubs. They were getting a ferry back to Ireland the same night as the body of a dead 'terrorist' was being sent back home. They were reluctant to give statements until the police convinced them it was the best policy. They were convicted by a jury. And they were held in jail for years - and Britain wouldn't do that unless they were guilty. Of course they were Provo terrorist murdering scum!

Must dust off those 'Free The Birmingham Six' petitions and change the wording a tad...

by Mags Wed Nov 20, 2002 15:01

You mean the Birmingham Six were Not Guilty! When was this revealed -'tis a disgrace!

Sure there was forensic evidence against them and most of them were from the North. Some of them collected money for Republican prisoners. They drank in Republican pubs. They were getting a ferry back to Ireland the same night as the body of a dead 'terrorist' was being sent back home. They were reluctant to give statements until the police convinced them it was the best policy. They were convicted by a jury. And they were held in jail for years - and Britain wouldn't do that unless they were guilty. Of course they were Provo terrorist murdering scum!

Must dust off those 'Free The Birmingham Six' petitions and change the wording a tad...

by Gerry Wed Nov 20, 2002 15:46

"He keeps putting in the same crap under different names. I wouldnt say he works for the US or anyone else, just a sad loner who likes to kick people whwn they are down.

He is just the type who used to say that the Birmingham 6 were guilty, your typical Sun reader.

Go back to your porn sites Gerry or whatever your name is; you are not wanted here."

Oooh, nice one. Perhaps you're a bit peeved at a bit of reality invading your cushy pro-IRA world here at IndyMedia. Is this the first time you've encountered comments here that actually disagree with what you're saying? And now that you can't handle it, you simply ask me to go away. How your argument easily crumbles.

I know the Birmingham 6 were innocent and cheered when it was proven so. But there is no comparison between this and the Colombia 3, because the C3 have not yet been proven innocent or guilty. And note (again!): I would not like to see them put on trial in Colombia, but in a neutral country. But they MUST be put on trial, for allegations of assisting FARC terrorists.

Just because they're Irish doesn't mean they're guilty, but just because they're Irish doesn't mean they're innocent either. Of course, it doesn't exactly help your case when the men are allegedly linked to the IRA. But don't ask me, ask the politicians and the vast majority of the Irish public that feel the same way towards these men - deep suspicion.

by pat c Wed Nov 20, 2002 16:27

"Of course, it doesn't exactly help your case when the men are allegedly linked to the IRA."

yes, & it didn't help the cases of the B6 or G4 when they were allegedly linked to the ira.

don't be suprised by anything gerry comes out with, he supports the bombing of iraq on another thread.

lets hear it now: US Bombs Good! FARC Bombs Bad!
Brit Bombs Good! IRA Bombs Bad!

by pat c Wed Nov 20, 2002 16:38

gerry still hasn't addressed

1. the existence of state & rightwing paramilitary death squads in colombia. trade unionists, community workers, journalists, anyone who in any way questions the state faces death.

2. That Colombia is not a democracy. come along and listen to the human rights activists at liberty hall.

3. the murder of 3,000 FARC activists by the state & rightwing death squads when FARC formed a political party.

4. It is elements in the Colombian Government and rightwing paramilitaries who control the greater part of the drug trade. FARC do not traffic in drugs, they impose a tax (in their areas of control) on all producers of any goods (including cocaine) who have a turnover of $1 million or over. They do not see it as their role to tell the peasants what they should grow.

by Gerry Wed Nov 20, 2002 17:27

Please, identify where on Indymedia I supported the "bombing of Iraq"? Because simply, I don't support the bombing of Iraq.

What do points 1-4 have to do with the Columbia 3 allegedly assisting FARC scum with terrorism? What do points 1-4 have to do with the Columbia 3 being brought home without trial either in Colombia or elsewhere? What do the Columbia 3 have to do with the B6 or the G4?

Incidentally, I never said mentioned anything about state & rightwing paramilitary death squads in colombia. I simply despise FARC terror - Terror that has been responsible for the muder of thousands of innocent Colombian civilians. If the C3 were arrested for assisting right-wing death squads, I would oppose their return to Ireland without trial in the exact same way.

Now try and be less sheep-like and understand this point of view.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Nov 20, 2002 18:04 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

1. As to what the C 3 has to do with the Guildford 4 members of the Guildford 4 have expressed their support for the mena nd one is travelling to Colombia to observe the trial because he believes a miscarriage of justice is taking place.

2. Indymedia is not 'pro-IRA' as you so oddly claim. As a community, it is virulently anti-republican, some of which is based on ignorance, some of which is based on political differences and some on simple hatred.

3. You accuse those of us who support the C3 as being sheeplike in this. You claim your position is the one of the majority, saying the vast majority of people in Ireland, politicians and not, view it with deep suspicion. Indeed they do Gerry, but isn't it really sheep-like to unquestioningly follow the flock. Since when is a ppolitical position in opposition to that of the majority of people the safe, sheep-like option? Pat C, Mags, me and the rest of us might be wrong, though obviously we don't believe so, but the one thing we're not, is sheep.

by patc Wed Nov 20, 2002 18:38

"Please, identify where on Indymedia I supported the "bombing of Iraq"? Because simply, I don't support the bombing of Iraq."

you supported irelands voting for the un resolution which effectively allows the US & brits to continue bombing iraq. & also leaves the US & Brits with loopholes to carry out a full scale attack.

"What do points 1-4 have to do with the Columbia 3 allegedly assisting FARC scum with terrorism?"

everything. the political nature of colombia is relevant.

"What do points 1-4 have to do with the Columbia 3 being brought home without trial either in Colombia or elsewhere? "

how could they get a fair trial in colombia? who would trust evidence collected in colombia (apart from pro imperialists like you)?

"What do the Columbia 3 have to do with the B6 or the G4?"

they are being railroaded in the same manner as the B6 & G4.

"Incidentally, I never said mentioned anything about state & rightwing paramilitary death squads in colombia."

exactly you carry on as if they didn't exist.

"I simply despise FARC terror - Terror that has been responsible for the muder of thousands of innocent Colombian civilians. "

this is not true. the state & rightwing death squads have been responsible for the vast majority of deaths. this is accepted by amnesty (who are not FARC supporters). FARC have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of colombian state forces & fascists.
accidents happen like the church incident. but that was not straightforward, as was outlined above.
but then your US friends always figure in collateral damage & friendly fire deaths.

"If the C3 were arrested for assisting right-wing death squads, I would oppose their return to Ireland without trial in the exact same way."

somehow i doubt that.

by MG Wed Nov 20, 2002 19:26

Justin,

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I don't think the indymedia community is anti-republican.

I personally am not a huge fan of SF, but I have a lot of respect for individuals like Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams, who have proved they are not "terrorists" by doggedly pursuing a peace process in the face of British and loyalist provocation.

However, SF does not have a monopoly on republicanism. I personally look forward to the day when the British Army finally fucks off out of our country. I plan to celebrate like there's no tomorrow whenever we get the fourth green field back. Just because I may have my doubts about SF as a political party does not mean I am anti-republican.

That said, there are anti-republicans who use this site, but it seems to me that they are largely confined to the myriad socialist parties, who are simply trying to outdo SF politically for their own petty advantage.

by N Wed Nov 20, 2002 20:13

Columbia is a country where homeless children live in underground sewers to avoid being shot by the police who attempt to exterminate them like vermin. Considering the lack of any significant action being taken against the police by the government and judiciary how can we expect anyone to get a fair trial in a country that is so corrupt.
People that condemn 'terrorists' should look at what the governments of those countries do before they condemn those fighting against them.
Ireland is far from perfect but we have rights that many people in the world don't even dare to dream of.
Someone once said that in order for evil to prosper it was only necessary for good men to do nothing. There are far too many people ready to condemn those who are trying to change the world because they don't like their tactics, whilst they themselves are doing little or nothing to bring about chnage.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Nov 20, 2002 20:43 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Neither need nor desire for an argument. I certainly accept that there are many republicans who are not members of Sinn Féin, including some on Indymedia. I would merely point out that Sinn Féin is the largest republican political organisation, that most people who consider themselves republican are either members, voters or supporters and that, rightly or wrongly, when the punter on the street hears the word republican they think instinctively of us. There are other republican organisations, there are 'dissident' republicans for example who are republicans in what they believe even if their methods of achieving republican objectives are different to those of most republicans.

I do think Indymedia is vaguely anti-republican, not the editorial staff themselves mind you, but the people who use it. I'd agree with you regarding the motivation of it to a certain extent. Some of them on the other hand do genuinely believe SF are mad Catholic reactionaries dedicated to genetic racial purity who sell drugs to run their propaganda machine.

by MG Thu Nov 21, 2002 19:24

I like that last statement. Yeah, there are people who see the rise of SF as something akin to Milosevic's Serb nationalism, but these are the kind of people who get their poltiics from the editorial pages of the Sun. They all vote for the PDs too, I'd say.

by Mike Fri Nov 22, 2002 13:25

Sinn Fein are extremely Nationalist.
Sinn Fein are extremely Socialist.
Nazi means the National Socialist party.

Look at the stereotypical Sinn Fein person: a skanger, wears a celtic jersey, skinhead, knows a load of rebel-songs and is very racist (if you think your average sinn fein skanger from a working class estate is anything other than a racist, you're living in a dream world).

The modern Sinn Fein type is the closest Ireland has to the righ-wing extremism.

by Gerry Fri Nov 22, 2002 13:37

None of your comments are relevant. And yes, I know all about the dispicable right-wing death squads in Columbia and despise them as much as I depise FARC. There is no connection between this and the G4/B6 - apart from the fact that they are Irish.

"the political nature of colombia is relevant." No it's not. This kind of logical twisting might work in the heads of Sinn Fein supporters, but not in the real world. The issue here is: did the C3 assist FARC terrorists in technology that resulted in the murder of innocent civilians? If they did, they belong in jail. End of story. No Argument.

And I'm sure you agree that if a columbian national offered assistant to the IRA/RIRA/UVF/UDA in technology that resulted in innocent Irish people being murdered, you'd want them in jail also. Think about it.

Therefore, if they are guilty, they belong in jail. The issue is to find out if they are guilty. And this should be done in an impartial court, in a neutral country. End of story.

It's pretty obvious that you can't handle the fact that your arguments for returning the C3 without trial are pretty shallow - so you've resorted to changing the subject, blaming the Colombian government and saying "somehow I doubt that".

by pat c Fri Nov 22, 2002 15:04

"None of your comments are relevant. And yes, I know all about the dispicable right-wing death squads in Columbia and despise them as much as I depise FARC."

they are relevant, because the very existence of those state & rigtwing death squads point to why farc exist in the first place. they clearly show that colombia is no a democracy

"There is no connection between this and the G4/B6 - apart from the fact that they are Irish."

yes there is. the b6 & g4 were villified in the same manner & treated as if they were guilty before & during their trials.

""the political nature of colombia is relevant." No it's not. This kind of logical twisting might work in the heads of Sinn Fein supporters, but not in the real world."

yes it is. colombia is not a democracy. this is also the view of amnesty international & humanrights watch.
therfore i think it is reasonable to say that resistance against the state is legitimate. therefore i do not view farc as terrorists.

"The issue here is: did the C3 assist FARC terrorists in technology that resulted in the murder of innocent civilians? If they did, they belong in jail. End of story. No Argument."

you have no way of knowing whether they did or not. what is your evidence?

you use the term terrorist regarding farc. it seems you, therefore, support the colombian dictatorship.

"And I'm sure you agree that if a columbian national offered assistant to the IRA/RIRA/UVF/UDA in technology that resulted in innocent Irish people being murdered, you'd want them in jail also. Think about it."

the situation you are putting forward is totally hypothetical. i'm not dealing with possibilities or your fairytales.
i'm dealing with the reality of the colombian state death squads.

"Therefore, if they are guilty, they belong in jail. The issue is to find out if they are guilty. And this should be done in an impartial court, in a neutral country. End of story."

not end of story. there is no evidence of them being involved in any arms training.

"It's pretty obvious that you can't handle the fact that your arguments for returning the C3 without trial are pretty shallow - so you've resorted to changing the subject, blaming the Colombian government and saying "somehow I doubt that"."

ypou are the person who has advanced no logical arguments. i've pointed out the nature of the colombian state. its record. how its criticised by Amnesty & humanrights watch. thats not changing the subject.
farc exists because of the terrorist nature of the state.
the c3 are charged because they are accused of helping farc against the terrorist colombian state.

but logic & reality never has any effect on your sort does it?

by Gerry Fri Nov 22, 2002 15:46

"therefore i do not view farc as terrorists."

Crikey. You really don't have much of a clue about the crimes FARC have committed, do you? Remember the necklace bomb? I guess you're the type of person that believes IRA/UDA/RIRA/UVF aren't terrorists either. But that just about sums up people like you. I really believe you're a sick person.

Also, you cowardly avoided answering my other question by stating "the situation you are putting forward is totally hypothetical." Too cowardly to ponder a simple piece of logic. Like most people that support the IRA/UDA/RIRA/UVF/FARC. I'll ask again, do you think (hypothetically) that someone who assists terrorists like (IRA, UVF, etc) should be put in jail?

Are the C3 guilty of assisting FARC terrorist scum? Yes or no. That is what an impartial court should be finding out. Fact: They were in a FARC controlled area with false passports. They have a case to answer.

You'll really have to think of something better than "therefore i do not view farc as terrorists." to defend the C3. Would you say that if you being interviewed by the media?

"therefore i do not view farc as terrorists." Oh dear. You might as well have said "therefore i do not view the RIRA as terrorists."

All jokes aside, I actually feel a little bit sorry for you.

by pat c Fri Nov 22, 2002 17:11

"Crikey. You really don't have much of a clue about the crimes FARC have committed, do you? Remember the necklace bomb? "

you dont seem to know much of the crimes of the colombian state. the tens of thousands massacred.

"I guess you're the type of person that believes IRA/UDA/RIRA/UVF aren't terrorists either. But that just about sums up people like you. I really believe you're a sick person. "

i dont believe the ira are terrorists, it should be obvious even to you that i view the uda & uvf as proto-fascist militias.

on indymedia i have made it clear that i dont support the rira. i condemned the killing of the worker at the TA base. this killing would have been seen as purely sectarian by the protestant community.

you are the sick person, you refuse to condemn the colombian state terror.

"Also, you cowardly avoided answering my other question by stating "the situation you are putting forward is totally hypothetical." Too cowardly to ponder a simple piece of logic. Like most people that support the IRA/UDA/RIRA/UVF/FARC."

i didn't avoid anything. i'm not going to be drawn into your hypothetical situations. i'm dealing with the real world where every year the colombian state & its rightwing paramilitary allies murder thousands of people.

i've made it clear that i dont support the uvf or rira.

"I'll ask again, do you think (hypothetically) that someone who assists terrorists like (IRA, UVF, etc) should be put in jail?"

i believe anyone who assists a fascist murder gang like the uvf should be put in prison.

"Are the C3 guilty of assisting FARC terrorist scum? Yes or no. That is what an impartial court should be finding out. Fact: They were in a FARC controlled area with false passports. They have a case to answer."

what impartial court? not in colombia. no evidence gathered by the fascist colombian state would hold any weight.

yes they had false passports. many progressives visiting colombia do so while using false passports. its anelementary safety precaution.

many people visit farc controlled areas? so what?

humanrights watch condemned the comments of the colombian attoroney general & other govt ministers regarding the C3.

"You'll really have to think of something better than "therefore i do not view farc as terrorists." to defend the C3. Would you say that if you being interviewed by the media? "

i would explain to the media how the present guerrilla war developed out of a civil war between the liberal & conservative parties that begun in the late 1940s. i would go on to show how colombia is not a normal society.
and outline how the charging of the C3 stems from the nature of the colombian state.

"therefore i do not view farc as terrorists." Oh dear. You might as well have said "therefore i do not view the RIRA as terrorists."

i have already made my views clear regarding the rira. i have explained at length as to why i do not think the farc are terrorists

"All jokes aside, I actually feel a little bit sorry for you."

you are the one who needs pity. you are either of low intelligence or a conscious supporter of the bush "evil axis" campaign. hence your support for bush re iraq.

people have different views on things . you however, from the start have been unwilling to discuss this in a reasonable manner. you have made up your mind that the C3 are guilty & are determined to smear them.

anyway, i have outlined my views at length & have given information & case studies to back them up.
(more than once, its getting rather repetitive at this stage)
you can rave on if you wish; i'm not going to waste any more time on you.

byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

by IMC Dalek Fri Nov 22, 2002 17:49

He would make you sick alright.

Nah, Pat C is too soft on the bould Gerry. I reckon Gerrys out to slander the C3 because hes yet another provocateur.

Did you notice the Secret Service fund is being increased? This is not used to fund our own MI5, no its used for payouts to informers (check it up, I tell no lie).

Well, informers are also used to stir things up and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Gerry is in receipt of some of this largesse.

Exterminate! Exterminate!

by Gerry Fri Nov 22, 2002 18:41

"i dont believe the ira are terrorists, it should be obvious even to you that i view the uda & uvf as proto-fascist militias."

Say that to the families of the innocent civilians (no ties to any security/paramilitary organisation) that have been killed by the loyalist paramilitaries (818 murders) or Republican Paramilitaries (704 murders) over the 30 years of the troubles.

http://members.tripod.com/~gdavis2/culprit.html

"i dont believe the ira are terrorists".
At least 704 families might disagree with you on that point.

You *really* are digusting.

by james Mon Apr 26, 2004 16:01

good luck today lads hope to see you soon