10 reasons to hate Socialist Alternative

by IST supporter Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:27

I even find their name weird. They call themselves "Socialist Alternative". But they are not socialists, they're armchair socialists. They are not active in the labour movement, therefore they are not really socialists. In fact they are closer to anarchists than socialists (sorry to anarchists who are active in the movement)

When in the SWP they didnt raise any difficulties they had in a seriuos way. They had a problem with the paper. They did not discuss this they just refused to sell it and write for it and went off in a huff.

by SA HATER Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:45

Why did SA have to wreck the SWSS society? why didn't they resign and set up a new society? Why just wreck things?

SA are undemocratic. There are no democratic structures and there is no meetings in which people can talk and debate.

Why were SA members ripping down "Marxism 2002" posters, you were even havin a go at SY for selling their paper at the recent CFE demo! where's the democracy guys?

SA are nothing but a bunch of wasters!

by Badman Wed Nov 20, 2002 17:36

Actually they posted a long and detailled acount of how they tried to do just that.

How about a challenge? I dare any SWP member to put the SWP's capacity for internal debate to the test. Simply pick any area of policy and formulate an alternative position then try to get this discussed openly within the SWP. Might open yer eyes.

by SA HATER Wed Nov 20, 2002 17:13

They are undemocratic and right wing. Why didnt they argue their points in the SWP? Why? 'cause they've no politics and are unable to argue.

The bastards!

by Finghin - Socialist Party Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:21

Dan the SWP wont debate with you. For them Marxism 2002 is not a place for genuine discussion and debate. They see it as a place for consolidating recruits, ever wonder why the SP are never invited to speak or debate at it? while the Green Party are? This is despite the fact the SP are marxists, have some real support among the working class and should really be invited to an event called 'Marxism'.

I have no particular problem with them holding such an event, but to pose it as a place for great discussion and debate is wrong.

by Dan - SA Mon Nov 18, 2002 20:08 rogerprotzlives at yahoo dot co dot uk

Im too bored to launch my usual torrent of abuse in response to this post,
but I do have a constructive suggestion to offer. The swappers have accused us of refusing
to debate with them (apparently we are "scared of arguing"). While this would be hotly
contested by SA, I can think of a simple way to settle things. Why dont we have a debate at
Marxism this weekend? I note that Kev Moran is giving a talk on "Trotskyism after Trotsky". Why not turn it
into a debate about the far left and its problems? Either myself or James would be
delighted to come and give the SA perspective. The SWP can nominate anyone they like to
oppose us. 15-20 minutes for both speakers to thrash out the arguments, time for both to come back at the end.
Wouldn't it be great fun? Anyway, the offer is there. In the meantime, invest in some funnier jokes, comrades.

PS "raw recruits"? How can we still be "raw recruits" when weve left the bloody party?

by OK - SP/CWI Mon Nov 18, 2002 16:20

We've only really begun college work in past year or so. In the past colleges were far more difficult places to work in for socialists, and anyway it was not a priority (still isn't really!)

Currently we only really have groups in 2 collges, UCD and UL. That is because SY aim towards people of school student age, and some of the people that joined have gone to college.

We dont have a group in QUB. We do have branches across the north. Belfast, Derry, Colraine, Omagh, Lisburn etc. They are part of the same organisation as SY in south.

There's one section of the CWI in Ireland. Although there are different regional structures north and south.

by conor - ucdsa Mon Nov 18, 2002 10:44 conor at ziplip dot com

i aggree that structures are important,but the over emphisis on rigid dictatoprial structures (refering to the swp not the sp here) in the far left is where this group has its short tangly roots.

syucd are really nice good people,and whoever has this qub/sy problem should better articulate it?i seriously doubt the sp would do that anywhere.

out of interest,who are syqub part of - the british or irish group ?

by Amused as fcuk Sun Nov 17, 2002 22:23

and won't until an explanation is given.

by Finghin - Socialist Youth Sun Nov 17, 2002 22:14

I am sick an tired of dealing with this QUB situation.

It has been dealt with elsewhere on other threads.

I invite you to go back through the newswire and have a read.

by Curious Sun Nov 17, 2002 21:50

No my friend it hasn't been dealt with.
What were his words? How were they misinterpreted? Did he argue for or against the Army stall?

by OK - SP/CWI Sun Nov 17, 2002 19:57

Yes the Socialist Voice is a fine publication. And No it will not advocate recruitment to the British Army! that's all been dealt with before.

Just because one member may be taken up wrongly in QUB doesn't mean the entire organisation are a bunch of imperialists!!

The people having a go at SP over QUB are political opponents that cant find anything to throw at us so they deliberatly mis-interpret the words of 1 member

by Trollwoman Sun Nov 17, 2002 16:58

is a marvellous publication with intelligent articles and next issue will contain Why we recruit for the British Army at QUB.

by red sp Sun Nov 17, 2002 15:39

I dont know the Socialist Alternatie, but from what I hear from my comrades in UCD they are made up of generally good people. I think that the person attacking them here should really grow up and get a life.

However Conor I would differ with a few points you raised. You said that the Socialist Party are not marxists. Well conor we are! We base our analysis of society according to the principles of marxism. Can you offer an example where we have abandoned marxist analysis?

Your final point about prefering to die out without organisation than sell the Socialist Worker. I think that structure is very important in any organisation, without it there is no democracy, no accountabliity, and not much gets done. You guys didn't like selling the paper. In my opinion that's because you did not realise the importance of getting your ideas out among the public. Yes, the Socialist Worker is not the highest quality paper, another factor in ye lads not wanting to sell it.

by conor - anarchist...sorry,socialist alternative Sun Nov 17, 2002 13:47 conor at ziplip dot com

1. we did do a statement, and recieved no answers,just the odd snide "theyll end up in the labour party" comment - typical swapper bullshit (posted by unnamed/misnamed types)
2. boo fucking hoo - who are these days,the sp / swp arent classical marxists . there actually are a couple of marxists in sa - we just dont ram it down everyones party ears
3. True.
4. also very true.
5. yeah,can you believe hes global action auditor ,and DOSENT fuck it over for the sakes of sa?its no wonder he diddnt last long in the swp
6. apart from polling 45% against them last year,and help set up the cfe , occupying the dept of education (where were the swimmers ?? oh thats right , selling papers outside)
7. this one is the funniest!!! everyone from libiterians to greens to marxists to anarchists (shame)to trots is welcome here
8. or within ucd either -
9. not that "everything" is much in the irish "left"
10. ha ha - say 8 mabey nine years then?? better to die out structureless then sell the worker in town every saturday avo.

until the next anarcho vs left vs whoever posting

signing off -

by Gary Barrett - CFE Sat Nov 16, 2002 18:52 garyman at hotmail dot com

what ever happened to workers of the world unite?
as long as the various socialist groups are looking after the working class whats the problem?

by .. Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:45

oh gosh .. they have anarchist tendencies ?

about fucking time.

by Brian Cahill Sat Nov 16, 2002 04:49

Are you taking the piss?

Of course the Socialist Party isn't recruiting for the British Army or any army in Belfast or anywhere else.

by alan b'stard Sat Nov 16, 2002 00:53

yes it is true, you have my word, the DUP/LVF do support and recruit for the brit army.

by guess again Fri Nov 15, 2002 22:57

your confusing the DUP/LVF stand with the SP stand at QUB. oh sorry this is one of those i hate the SWP/SP/Sinn fein/WSM/IRSP posts again, i should have known. we watch True Spies, so we know what MI5/6/FRU are up to, GAME'S UP.
Remember during the Drumcree crisis, when the LVF's Billy 'smack addled liar' Wright, Mark 'coke fiend' swinger Fulton shared a platform on stage with the Very Reverend DUP bible thumping C&W crooner WILLIE MC CREA. thats the link between loyalist bible thumper hypocrites and LVF druggie gangsta war lords.

by Curious Fri Nov 15, 2002 22:27

Are SP in Belfast recruiting for the British Army or not? You said you would find out for us all.

by GCHQpenpusherstopitnow Fri Nov 15, 2002 22:01

10 reasons to hate more 10 reasons to hate.

1)its usually chief cuntstable Alan Mclard Arse again.
2)they are usually pigs
3)its usually cuntstable hugh odd bored again
4)watch true spies
5)look under your stairs, for a toffy nosed plum with a bucket and tape recorder
6)they cant take a joke
7)they're deeply offended by any criticism of Alan mcLard Arse/Hugh Odd Bored/Tony blur/Alan b'stard
8)stop criticising New labour/statesman/Old tories
9)better flying pickets, than flying piggies
10)FOAD

by Intransigent Fri Nov 15, 2002 21:51

Yeah they may do some good work but that's not all folks. Part-time they're comedians. I really loved their stand during freshers week complete with posters about the fact that "All nations hallucinations" and other good stuff too. It was an anarchistic art gallery! Lovely stuff really

by Finghin - Socialist Youth UCD Fri Nov 15, 2002 21:07

Will there ever be an end to this sectarian childish rubbish on indymedia?

I know the people in SA, they are all decent activists and have done alot more than most others in UCD.