Why do we hate the IMC leaders?

by Ray Tue Oct 22, 2002 13:31

0. Its so much easier to complain than to get involved.
1-1,000,000 They cut something that *I* liked! That's not fair! Rules are all very well, but how dare they apply them to ME! *I'm* too important to be cut, and my politics are above criticism. Only wankers/fascists/reformers/west-brits/anarchists/trots could fail to realise this.

by Joe Sheehan Tue Oct 22, 2002 13:34

Palm Tree, I am finding it hard to string together words here i am so amazed anyone could be so childish, that the above would ever be written let alone 10 reasons why. Grow up, is the best advice i can offer!

by time warp Tue Oct 22, 2002 13:39

'Its so much easier to complain than to get involved.'

ok then, when is the next meeting?

when and where?

by IMCer Tue Oct 22, 2002 13:41

What about that King Mob piece of shite?

by Ray Tue Oct 22, 2002 13:46

I don't think a date for the next meeting has been set yet. Someone has suggested having one at the grassroots gathering in Belfast, but nothing has been decided yet - join the IMC lists and you can suggest a time.

There's a link on the left of the page for mailing lists. The main list discusses meeting times, among other things. The newsire and editorial lists discuss what goes up on the newswire, features, and that kind of thing.

If you join those lists, you're involved in the IMC, just as much as I am. If you want to suggest changes to editorial policies, look for new features, persuade people to remove or reinstate articles, or get involved in anything else to do with the newsire, join the lists and fire away.

by pat c Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:26

they can't take criticism.

automatic kneejerk reaction.

if you are not on the lists then you are not saved.
salvation lies in the lists not of works lest any man boast.

gee, you lot, this is methodist style preaching.

i don't remember any reactions that bad to any of the other hate lists.

btw, ray is being disingenuous, he is also one of the priesthood who attends the MEETINGS.

by Ray Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:36

Meetings are good because they allow for face-to-face discussion, which is sometimes easier than e-mail communication. But you don't need to attend meetings to have an equal say in decisions. If you want something deleted, a policy changed, something undeleted, a new feature, a new look for the site, anything like that... suggest it on the mailing lists, and have the discussion there.

Most of the decisions that Pat spends so much time whinging about took place on the mailing lists. He could even argue to have those decisions overturned if he wanted to. Unfortunately, he's happier with his persecution complex.

by iosaf = o as if - reclaim the streets & genome Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:41 iosaf at email dot com codols 23 x plaza . Orwell,Barcelona 08002,Catalunya 0034679708674

accent? :yep
but I use gaelic on this site.
politics? : anrcho-syndicalist-pacifist-ecologist.
as such I see Europe as a continent.
I see Ireland as administered in 2 states.
I call these in my writing "the Irish states".
As an "anti-globalist / anti-hyper-capitalist" activist and "poet/thinker" I advocate transnational resistance to the Fortune 500 multi-national corporations. Thanks to the IMF, WB, and WTO and MAI multi-national-corporations have no borders.
So I think it unhelpful to keep our struggle confined to "ethnic/national areas".
As anyone can see anarch-syndicalist-pacifist-ecologists are active in "national self-determi nation movements" around the globe and not just Ireland / Catalúnya / Basque / Sardinia.
This is because we believe local government best serves the interests of Ecologists, pacifists, and anarcho-syndicalist prinicples of Labour organisation.

The IMC crew in Eire are wonderful.

And that´s the opinion of the IMC crew of Sweden, Norway, NYC, LA, Barcelona, Finland, Germany and many more.

The IMC community goes beyond those who have the URL.
The community includes those who write articles for the newswire.
Those who read the articles.
Those who contribute commentaries (I do a lot of that don´t I?)
Those who check facts (the librarians)
Those who move occasional "hot pieces" about the newswire by reposting articles.
(That is sometimes seen locally as spam/irrelevant often it is but sometimes it is essential activity to keep info in the open domain),
an example is yesterday´s post on Sedish indymedia concerning the Bilderberg commission.

Another example is the continuing David SHayler posts on UK and other networks. In the past few months I attempted to point out to readers here in "neutral-zone[status confirmed by NICE ratification] indymedia ireland" that the full list of indictments against the current (believed by many to be illegitamate) incumbent of the White House, were being illegally removed from open newswires.

The IMC crew do know about things outside of Dublin, I know because I´ve tested them.
Neither I nor my colleauges in the "transnational- anarcho-sydnicalist-ecologist-pacifist" movement just accept webpages as proof of a newswire or genuine forum for debate / passionate telling of the truth, we test.
IMC Ireland have passed the tests on numerous occassions.
I support any attempt in the future to produce a indymedia service for Cork, Galway, or Belfast.

I and my colleagues will offer translation services if needed. Remember there are over 3000 foreign nationals as students in Ireland as part of the Erasmus / Socrates programmes.

I believe they have taken criticism well in the past.
Updating front pages is not always as easy as you might think.
Many articles are removed for reasons of irrelavance or it is felt they might damage the underlying indymedia principle of a "free and uncensored" media.
It might seem strange to amny readers to know that indymedia networks are often used to divide the LEFT and Green in their host countries and to disinform the general public.
OFten this disinformation comes from unpleasant sources and is referred to as "psy-ops".
This is not paranoia it happens.
But don´t be too worried because we do "psy-ops" as well. & ours are better!!!

Automatic hatred of the SWP.
Yesterday I left a comment here exhorting the LEFT and Anarchists and Ecologists of Ireland to look forward and build on the great achievement of the last few months campaigning together against the NICE treaty. I purposefully included the SWP in the thanks, I purposedfully left out SF in the thanks.
SF are mature enough (Ireland´s oldest party to know ohow things go when a vote is lost, and indeed Justin (?) of SF was one of the first to call foul on the mutual recrimination that followed the YES vote).
I thanked the SWP because well, they always turn up, if even only to find new members and yell into megaphones. Everytime I or my colleagues have been involved in mobilisation of the "public" to "reclaim the streets" for any political / social / community / labour / ecological cause the SWP or their local equivalent turn up. And in a way that´s ok with me, a few extra bodies on the street. As I´ve told you if you don´t like them blasting ye with megaphones find a clown with a cornet or trumpet.
This is a Barcelona technique to counter balance the "we must all march somewhere and listen to speeches" street mobilisation style.

by pat c Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:41

the real decisions are made at the MEETINGS.
when i made a suggestion re electronic democracy you said that i should have raised it prior to the MEETING.

so crude & callow in their inability to accept criticism. slight change in their message though:
now if you disagree with them you've got a "persecution complex".

by pat c Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:46

"The IMC crew in Eire are wonderful.

And that´s the opinion of the IMC crew of Sweden, Norway, NYC, LA, Barcelona, Finland, Germany and many more."

so the imcs love the imcs!

long live the mutual love in!

build the 5th international - the iimc!

by Joe Sheehan Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:53

If you are so worried about how Indymedia.ie is being run get involved and change it, if not have a read of the editorial guidlines.
From what i have read the actions of the editorial team have been cosistent with their guidelines.
Before anyone says anything I am NOT a member of the editorial team or on any of the lists just a regular user of this invaluable news facility!

by Ray Tue Oct 22, 2002 14:53

Pat, you've never even made a suggestion on the mailing lists. If we held an IMC meeting outside your front door you'd climb out a back window to avoid it.

The only thing I can see stopping you from making suggestions is that you think you'll be outvoted. Whether that's because your ideas on how the IMC should be run weren't popular in the first place or because you've succeeded in irritating pretty much everyone who might have been inclined to listen to you... well, I'll leave that one as an exercise for the reader.

by pat c Tue Oct 22, 2002 15:22

Pat, you've never even made a suggestion on the mailing lists."

i made it on newswire & thats the way u responded 2 it. but of course there is no salvation outside of the lists.

" If we held an IMC meeting outside your front door you'd climb out a back window to avoid it."

i'd rather join a leper colony. my only pupose in gpoing 2 an imc mtg would b 2 unmask & despatch certain characters (i've been training with twin machettes)

" you've succeeded in irritating pretty much everyone who might have been inclined to listen to you."

of course. i've disagreed with the priesthood & supreme leader of imc therefore i've irritated them.

the imc are always right.
any criticism of the imc is wrong.
i criticised the imc.
therefore i am wrong.

by C. Tue Oct 22, 2002 15:32

1. Cos they let shit like this article use up the bandwidth
2. Cos they provide a forum for the most tedious text in the universe - the Ray and Pat show
3. They think they are so clever with their international movement and non-aligned shite
4. They keep having meetings and freely available mailing lists instead of...
5. they won't admit they are leaders saying instead they are non-hierarchical and a collective
6. they won't admit they are a dublin plot to neuter dissent in the rest of the country, saying instead this is a result of them all living in Dublin
7. they don't sacrifice their lives to provide a few minutes of up to date news for the masses who are bored of consuming porn and want to feel political
8. they smile at people and pretend to listen when if they were real working class they would call them wankers and be aggressive
9. they only have their website on computers - it should be hand delivered to whoever wants it
10. they haven't quit and shut the site down.

by bored Tue Oct 22, 2002 15:35

the imc are always right. -- no
any criticism of the imc is wrong. - no
i criticised the imc. -- often
therefore i am wrong. -- no but you...
are becoming fucking dull, the main thing clogging up the newswire is the white noise produced by the various dubious, pointless and endless "debates" that come from your contributions.

by Bertie the Bumpkin Tue Oct 22, 2002 15:50

Just as the Ascendancy ruled Ireland from Dublin Castle, so now do IMC.

Yea, from the pearly gates of their palace they rule over CyberSpace.

This must not be allowed to continue. The Culchie CyberPunks are organising. Let us overthrow these Anarch Oligarchs.

Information Workere of the World Wide Web. (IWWWW)

by Tamerlane Tue Oct 22, 2002 16:05

-8. they smile at people and pretend to listen when if they were real working class they would call them wankers and be aggressive

So again you guys have your anti working class vibe. To you all workers are aggressive. What are you after then.

The Dictatorship of the Middle Class?

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Oct 22, 2002 17:01 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

>> The Dictatorship of the Middle Class?

*lol* An intriguing concept. Forced eating of chesse and wine. Everyone must drive volvos and play golf, but not too well.

by MG Tue Oct 22, 2002 17:46

Further to Justin's point...

They'd probably also force everyone to carry opened umbrellas in crowded places, preferably at head-height. Even when it's not raining.

Does anybody else hate those fuckers?

by Phuq Hedd Tue Oct 22, 2002 18:03

to use satire and irony to oppress the workers.

(btw those would be golf umbrellas right? I bet they munch organic carrots under them)

by MG Tue Oct 22, 2002 19:37

Mr Hedd,

The size of the umbrella is immaterial. It's the carrier's utter disregard for the eyes of the innocent bystander that gets me.

by Phuq Hedd Tue Oct 22, 2002 20:42

If you are in danger of having your eyes poked out then surely the solution is obvious?: your _own_ umbrella. Naturally this will be much larger and made of a sturdier construction. It's the same logic that brings us the Volvo and the Suburban Assault Vehicle.

Furthermore you'll find that spinning it, or opening/closing it to divest it of raindrops will show the layabouts that congregate in doorways a thing or two (the same shower that's out protesting all the time).

by blisset Tue Oct 22, 2002 21:52

...he is wearing the palm tree so his 'friends' don't see him start the fight that follows quickly ....

....when u can't find any 'fascists' anyone will do . . .

so pat . . . I think when things get to this level of abuse one side should go away and cool down. Now shall we all (imc users) go away for a few days and let pat kick the walls a bit more . . or can pat take a breather . . I think he is frustrated at the Nice vote and his Tourettes is bothering him.

by blisset Tue Oct 22, 2002 21:55

and making a bollocks of it

see what i mean?
by pat c Tue, Oct 22 2002, 1:26pm

they can't take criticism.

automatic kneejerk reaction.

if you are not on the lists then you are not saved.
salvation lies in the lists not of works lest any man boast.

gee, you lot, this is methodist style preaching.

i don't remember any reactions that bad to any of the other hate lists.

btw, ray is being disingenuous, he is also one of the priesthood who attends the MEETINGS.

by pat c Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:13

now you are raving. what do you mean by reprinting my comments? i'm lost

i am not palm tree. check where it came from ip address etc

you lot are so smug you think people have to make up names to attack you

ah well, it suits your persecution complex i guess

by pat c - tourettes anonymous Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:24

you always object to abuse from the critics of imc but you never chide your own for the asperity they spew forth.

i react to the outrageous libels which are heaped upon my head by the priesthood & acolytes of imc.

by pat c Wed Oct 23, 2002 12:51

which of the imc high priesthood do you reckon C is?

by MG Wed Oct 23, 2002 19:08

...your advice was indispensible. In fact, you should notice an increase of eye patches among the middle classes any day soon. And I do apologise for calling you a mister (no offence intended)

Vive la anti-umbrella brigade!
Down with the PDs!

by loved up yesterday Thu Oct 24, 2002 14:50

i love rain.
ag cur baisteacht.
great.
i don´t see enough rain.

it´s going to rain.
oh i´m so happy to say
it´s going to rain.
i´m so happy to say.
it´s going to rain, now.
oh say it´s going to rain.

all together....

it´s going to rain now,
we´re so happy to say,
it´s going to rain now,
oh [lordy,lordy,lordy]
we need that rain.

they hate us you know.