Here is an approximate league table of leaflets distributed by various groups in the Nice Referend

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Oct 14, 2002 19:26 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

I didn't want to get into a pissing contest about who distributed the most leaflets as different parties and organisations have different amounts of personnel and resources. It's far easier for us to distribute a thousand leaflets than some of the other parties you mention and we should be judged by the level of work done rather than by the amount of material put out. Activists in the LAN could work twice as hard as you average SF activist (Not that I accept that) and not move a fraction of the material. But I'm not going to let some-one wander by claiming we've only distributed 40,000 leaflets.

We are, as of last Friday, above 400,000 in terms of pieces of material distributed. The bulk of this is 280,000 colour newssheets. The remainder is made up of canvass cards and A5 leaflets. We expect to break 500,000, or at least get damn close to it, by the end of the campaign. This does not include newssheets in local areas that mention Nice, articles in local, regional and national newspapers, posters, leaflets or posters used to advertise pubic meetings or bumper stickers.

by Leaflet watcher Mon Oct 14, 2002 20:13

I bet half of those LAN ones are either still in Andrew Floods front room or have been double leafleted.

CPI 30,000 - that's bollocks! they only have about 3 members. They would have to be working savage hard to get that many out and they are all over 75!

by mathematician Mon Oct 14, 2002 22:16

and are there any statistics available
on conversations or radio time?

by swp waster Mon Oct 14, 2002 23:02

At least nobody is claiming the swp did more than they did. I suppose everybody realises that they did almost nothing this time in Nice 2. Lan has man for man, by far carried out the best campaign.

by Andrew Flood Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:07

Actually I checked this morning and I only have about 45 LAN leaflets in my front room. I do have about 25 A2 Corriboard posters there though so if you want to give me a hand getting these up in the north inner city in the next couple of days give me a shout!

In terms of LAN in general we estimated that we have around 6,000 undistributed leaflets so the figure above should be 50,000 - (6,000 + 45). Our door to door leafletting has been pretty well co-ordinated so outside of a couple of areas where individuals did leaflet streets already done double leafletting is pretty low.

I'd be a little suspicious of the figures above BTW as several of them (including the SF one) look a little low.

LAN are leafletting Ballybrack tonight, meeting at the Tesco at 19.00. If your travelling out from the city centre you can meet us at College Green (outside TCD gates) from about 17.15 to get a bus at 18.00.

Leafletting for tomorrow is as follows, give us a hand to get rid of the last 6,000

** Wednesday

* 7pm meet Quinns Pub, 42 Drumcondra Rd Lr.

* 7pm meet Lowes Pub, opposite Ice Rink, Dolphins Barn.

by IMC Dalek Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:10

ISFN would have been better off leafletting than preaching to the converted at their meeting.

by John Jefferies - The Workers' Party Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:24

Again not wishing to claim any moral high ground but just to note that the WP was left out of the above list.

We have produced and distributed in the region of 200,000 leaflets nationally with more on the way. About 1,500 posters were put up, one third of them being left over since the last election.

by Tamerlane Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:27

200,000? Ha! Who are you kidding?

Maybe you paid for them with profits from Property Development? Or did you print the money?

by John Jefferies Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:31

Gosh some people really get upset when we say something on Indymedia. You should join the Fianna Fail smear team, you could become a star!

by Larry White Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:45

What about the 7 luxury apartments on the WP HQ site in Hill Street? Planning permission was refused because no provision was made for Social Housing.

This can be checked with Dublin City Council Planning Department.

What about the WP offices in Cork? Which developer did you do the deal with? Where did the money go?

by curious Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:29

sounds juicy.

by John Jefferies Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:29

Nobody was exploited. Is there something wrong with using the capitalist system to fund the development of a socialist party as long as it doesnt involve exploiting working people? Lenin did it, after all.

As for "Social Housing" this is a cop out by Fianna Fail who have abandoned the building of local authority homes. The Workers' Party has long advocated the provision of affordable housing and have consistently criticised the failure of the state to provide public housing. The government policy has favoured speculation and landlordism.

As for our Cork premises, it was a derelict shell without windows and with a collapsing roof. We could not afford to renovate it and Cork Corporation were pushing us with massive rates bills and threatening us under the derelict sites act. Certain people with political motives were goading the Corporation to move on us. We sold the building and retain one room there as an office on a nominal rent. All of this information is in the public domain. The proceeds went to pay off debts and towards development of the party.

That's the explanation, not that I feel obliged to explain myself to you, but lest you mislead the indymedia readers. Now perhaps you would identify yourself properly and we can put your own bona fides under scrutiny.

by Liam McMillen Tue Oct 15, 2002 13:14

"The Workers' Party has long advocated the provision of affordable housing and have consistently criticised the failure of the state to provide public housing. The government policy has favoured speculation and landlordism."

So why didn't provide for social housing in your planning application for Hill Street as you were requirde to do under law?

Dop you think other developers should also be above the law & not have to make provision for affordable housing for the working class?

Or is it only the WP who owe no allegiance to the working class?

by Britkilla Tue Oct 15, 2002 13:18

"We sold the building and retain one room there as an office on a nominal rent. All of this information is in the public domain. The proceeds went to pay off debts and towards development of the party. "

Why not publish your accounts on indymedia? showing exactly where the money from the development went.

Are the CAB on your trail?

by Larry White Tue Oct 15, 2002 13:24

"That's the explanation, not that I feel obliged to explain myself to you, but lest you mislead the indymedia readers."

Whos doing the misleading?

The WP put in a planning application in Hill Street without making a provision for social housing.

The WP engaged in property development in Cork. Where did the money go?

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Tue Oct 15, 2002 15:06 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

I find the idea that comrades in the Workers Party are indulging in mass property speculation in order to siphon funds into their own party accounts, or their own personal accounts reprehensible. The Workers Party does not fund itself through indulging in the capitalist property market. It funds itself through a widespread network of international counterfeiting using links maintained through the 80s (Allegedly) And don't any of you forget it.

For shame.

by E Tue Oct 15, 2002 18:06

oh come please everyone, only 500 for the SWP?, why I have about 500 leaflets up in my room right now, ready for the last few days. A real troll of a posting to be sure designed to insult as many groups as possible. I think to be fair we produced at least 20,000 leaflets if not more. This vote will go down to the wire I think, even at this late stage and every leaflet counts.

by thirsty Tue Oct 15, 2002 21:17

Well E sorry if nobody believes you, these 500 leaflets in your room are a figtment of your imagination, nobody has seen any of you swp branches out leafleting, now why is that?
'why I have about 500 leaflets up in my room right now, ready for the last few days'.

As for your comment 'I think to be fair we produced at least 20,000 leaflets if not more'

Really then they must have disapeared because some of your younger members have let the truth out about never hearing about them or seeing them either!

by lying eyes Tue Oct 15, 2002 22:06

I think that we can take Justin's figures with a pinch of salt. I know a good few few people in sf cumann in a number of Dublin constituencies. They are telling me that less than one fifth of the number of SF canvassers that regularily canvass during elections for sf are out working on Nice on any night! So go and pull the other one Justin, the figures you give below are crap, why do all politicans tell lies, (even worse stupid ones)

'We expect to break 500,000, or at least get damn close to it, by the end of the campaign. This does not include newssheets in local areas that mention Nice, articles in local, regional and national newspapers, posters, leaflets or posters used to advertise pubic meetings or bumper stickers'.

The acid test Justin,s will SF get their vans, cars etc out on saturday to bring people to the polling booths all over the country? The did it on election day a few months ago after all.

by Seeker Tue Oct 15, 2002 22:20

How wuld the anachist tossers know how many leaflets were given out by each group? Have they got X-Ray Specs, or perhaps the spooks talk to them.

They spend all their time slagging others and posing about how they are the hard men of direct action.

Like to see them try to organise a piss up in a brewery rather than bad-mouthing others who are getting on with the job.

by Ray Wed Oct 16, 2002 09:33

Anecdotal evidence only, I know, but in my own area (Walkinstown) I've seen leaflets from the Greens and Sinn Fein, and I've delivered (about a thousand) LAN leaflets. None of the other groups have put leaflets through my door.

I'm inclined to believe Justin about the number of leaflets Sinn Fein have distributed overall, for the simple reason that SF do regular leaflet distributions anyway. They're probably not doing nearly as much _canvassing_ as they'd do for an election, but then neither are any of the other parties.

As for LAN - there were over 30 people at the only LAN meeting I've attended, and I know more people have gotten involved since. That's easily enough people to give out all 50,000 leaflets, and I'm pretty sure they'll all be gone by polling day.

by Andrew Wed Oct 16, 2002 09:57

H'mm, this thread is getting sillier by the minute. Anyway LAN now has 3 parcels of 1200 leaflets left plus about 600 loose ones. It may be that individuals involved in LAN have some under their beds as well. Lets make sure we get ALL of these out in the next couple of days.

In Dublin we are again leafletting tonight as below

* 7pm meet Quinns Pub, 42 Drumcondra Rd Lr.

* 7pm meet Lowes Pub, opposite Ice Rink, Dolphins Barn.

On Thursday we aim to get rid of all remaining leaflets in the Dublin area by leafletting the city centre from 16.30 on. If you have any leaflets left or want to help out then meet up at the bottom of Grafton st from 16.30 on. If need people to bring any undistributed leaflets with them as after tonight we should be down to our last 1500.

Finally don't forget on referendum night LAN is holding a party/fundraiser as follows.

Dublin Benefit for Libertarians Against Nice

sacco and vanzetti present....
**********
benefit for LAN
****************
DJ PHIL BONGODED raffae, regga
*****************
Kross phader-neuro man
**********
Hip-hop TBC Oi the DJ punk-hip-hop and 80s

Where: The Gingerman, Fenian St near the Davenport Hotel
On the night of the ref:Saturday 19 Oct

Admission is to be confirmed but should be in the region of 6 Euro low waged/unwaged.

LAN members will be selling advance tickets, we have a very big debt to clear so please get one and drag your mates along! Should be a good night.

by Confused anti-capitalist Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:58

Why is it that Anarchists have no problem in campaigning in referendums but they've a problem with elections?

I know you will say that it's because we are not accepting a ruler over us to make unmandated decisions.

However by voting in a referendum you are accepting a question that elected representatives have set. Surely you should only vote in referendums if the elected representatives that set the question are elected for the sole purpose of coming up with a question.

Anarchists, like socialists, use elections and referendums for putting their ideas out among the population. The Vote Pie campaign was using elections to get anarchist ideas out there. The difference is that Socialists actually have support from the working class and have a good chance of getting a respectable vote and getting elected.

by Andrew Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:11

Really this is getting pretty boring. The anarchist attitude to elections is explained online at the link below. To put it really simply we are against choosing unaccountable leaders (which is what Dail elections are all about). We are against the division into leaders and led that this entails. A referendum is about voting directly on a decision. The two are not the same!

Read the web page, it explains the difference in a lot more detail
http://struggle.ws/election.html

by hs - sp Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:51

%500!!! from the sp. thats ridiculas, 500 one cover one estate! When I was home this summer we had stalls every thursday and saturday, one at the gpo and on saturdays sy have one at the central bank aswell. On one stall we distribute well over 500 leaflets, so you do the maths. Thats not counting working in local areas. Not to rain on your parade LAN, but lads yous didn't invent leaflets. You've done some nice work but really your out swping the swp now. God help us if you ever get as popular as them. We have enough arrogance out there already,

by Ray Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:03

The article at the top wasn't posted by LAN, so calm yourself down.

I have no idea how many leaflets most of the campaigns have given out, and I really don't know where 'statistician' is getting his numbers - some of them are obviously wrong, and most of the others look unlikely. (BTW, s/he says the SP gave out 5000 leaflets, not 500)

I haven't seen any SP leaflets, but whether that's because you're concentrating on other work or because I've just been in in the wrong place at the wrong time, I have no idea.

by For fuck sake Sat Oct 19, 2002 21:30

I think everbody should calm down. This was obviously somebody trying to get everbody rattled. They have no proof only idle speculation. I would suggest that people refrain from responding to such shite. This person probably voted yes in the referendum and isn't worthy of such a response. They're probably sitting in their little dark room on their own, sitting in front of their computer, flicking between indymedia on one window and some porn site on another window, stimulating themselves.

Lets all have some perspective here.