Cameras/videos for Shannon demo

by stinky Wed Oct 09, 2002 14:51

I am travelling for Cork for a demo against US warplanes at Shannon. I will participate in democratic debate about tactics etc. I will work with other people interested in direct action and will respect those who do not wish to do so. We should give each other space. I will not be stewarded by the pigs, nor will I negotiate or accept anyone negotiating on my behalf with them. I will not be stewarded by anyone not democratically chosen by the direct action people.
I am not going to be herded
Thank you

by Ray Wed Oct 09, 2002 15:50

- We will have the demonstration well stewarded

I don't want to jump to any conclusions here, but who appointed/elected these stewards?
Has a plan of action for the day been agreed with anyone?
If so, when and what is it?
If not, what are the stewards planning to do?

Many of the people who've argued for a demonstration in Shannon have done so not because its nice to see the south-west, or to be nearer the warplanes, but because it allows for the possibility of direct action. Marching up and down in Shannon is only marginally better than marching up and down in Dublin - the real advantage to Shannon is that you can get out onto the runways.

It would probably be a good idea to sort this out now, rather than argue about it afterwards.

by bored Wed Oct 09, 2002 15:53

maybe anarchists against war/terrorists could steward it?

by Ray Wed Oct 09, 2002 16:04

If 'anarchists against the war' turned up with stewards armbands and told everyone what to do, I'm sure there would be complaints. A self-appointed group taking control of a demonstration is a recipe for trouble. Since there are quite a few organisations supporting this demo there's potential for a lot of problems if things are done badly.

by direct action dan - carp Wed Oct 09, 2002 16:50 carp at carper dot com

presumably the demo will be stewarded by the people that are organising it. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that other than trying to deliberately stir up trouble. There is a good chance that the cops will come down heavy on saturday and the demo needs to be well organised an stewarded to avoid a baton charge or whatever. if their are a handful of anarchists or Direct action heads who want to have a go off the pigs then go ahead, though i very much doubt if their bite is as sharp as their bark is irritating.

by Ray Wed Oct 09, 2002 17:20

- presumably the demo will be stewarded by the people that are organising it.

Which ones? Was the stewarding organised at a Dublin meeting? Were there people there from Cork and Galway? Have they been consulted? Are they happy with the arrangements?
The answer to all of these questions could be 'yes' - as I said, I don't want to jump to conclusions. But they are important questions.

- There is a good chance that the cops will come down heavy on saturday and the demo needs to be well organised an stewarded to avoid a baton charge or whatever.

As far as I'm aware, nothing like that has happened at the previous Shannon demos. People have been arrested, yes, and so its important that there are contact numbers etc - I'm not denying that at all.

- if their are a handful of anarchists or Direct action heads who want to have a go off the pigs then go ahead,

The question (as far as I know) is not going to be about whether or not to attack the police. It will be about whether or not to try to get past the security fence. If there are a couple of hundred demonstrators there an action like that is quite possible, and doesn't have to involve attacking the police.

These are simple questions.

How were the stewards elected/appointed, and by whom?
Is it their intent to make sure the demonstration does certain things or are they just there as legal contacts/observers etc?
If they do intend to make sure the demonstration follows some plan of action, what is that plan, and how was it agreed?

There are a lot of different groups and individuals taking part in Saturday's action. The stewarding can be organised in a way that these groups will support, or it could be organised in a way that many groups will resent. The former situation is better for everybody - if there's anything that could cause resentment it should be sorted now, not left to blow up in our faces.

by Tom Walsh Wed Oct 09, 2002 17:35 waser at cheerful dot com

May be,it might be worth considering if the collage people might organise some GAA or mountaineering helmets for the protection of independently minded students.
I agree too its possible that the Guardians of the Peace might be instructed to get a bit heavy handed again, and we need every thoughtful person in this country to be kept safe from the brain crushing batons and fists of this country’s peacekeepers. The US has warned the Irish government to step up security at the airport (http://www.intelligenceonline.com &
http://www.intelligenceonline.fr
Monday). So they might now be out to put on a show.
Well done to Eoin Dubsky for getting this into the High Court.

by wormholebrothers Wed Oct 09, 2002 17:56

Last time we sat down beforehand to decide tactics - likewise this time I hope - IAWM - were not there previously - 100 of us were - hope they don't start trying to push people around - If they want to discuss tactics this is a place where it can be done beforehand -

Are they IAWM going to enter airport if police say not to, are they going to enter terminal, are they going to have a look around the hangars?

C'mon what is being planned apart from stewarts. Then I might tell what IMC are planning.

Anyway everyone is imc, if they want to be, even the stewarts, they would be better occupuied with videocams methinks

by Tim Hourigan Wed Oct 09, 2002 20:05

I'm not organising this but I am glad people are coming. I'm no one's boss but I'd like to throw in my opinion all the same.

First off, I'd like to say that the idea of lots of people who've never been to Shannon thinking about jumping the fence, is a bad one.

Eoin Dubsky jumped the fence, sure. But he's been at Shannon a lot and was in no danger of running in front of an aircraft on a taxi-way.

Security may not be good at the airport, but once you go over that fence you should be more concerned with being run over than arrested.
Aeroplanes are big and heavy and have lots of blind spots. And it wouldn't do to be squashed by the wheels or blown over by the engines.
This movement doesn't need martyrs.

On a more general note about the Gardai and airport 'police'.

The Gardai are very likely to stall you at the archway, this is more so because of the discussion of direct action. Be polite but firm with them. We've asserted the right to peaceful protests every time at Shannon and we shouldn't let them take it away.

There was talk of direct action at the last demo, but it was only talk, and we should not allow our right to peaceful protest to be curtailed.

Whatever the legal situation make sure you get the names of the garda who block your way.
You might want to video tape yourself making a formal complaint to them, asking them to make an arrest because of the illegal flights going on in the background.

The airport 'police' are not members of the Garda Siochana.
If they start giving orders, ask their name and ask to see their warrant card.
Most of them don't have warrant cards. I think only the inspectors do.
Ask them what bye-law they are quoting, etc. Again be polite but firm.
Dont' give them an inch, because they have been completely unco-operative to previous peaceful protests and our monitoring activities.
Make them justify everything they say and get it on tape.
I've been sticking a dictaphone under their noses for the past week when they harass me.
They can legally ask you to leave the viewing gallery, even if you are peacefully observing, but if you are outside the archway, then you are outside their jurisdiction anyway.
Likewise, on the public roads in the industrial estates and behind the main runway. You can protest and plane spot there, and there's sod all they can do about it.

By the way, anytime they quote one of their drachonian bye-laws to harrass me, I always ask them about Article 28.3.1 of the constitution. Article 28.3.1: WAR SHALL NOT BE DECLARED AND THE STATE SHALL NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY WAR SAVE WITH THE ASSENT OF DAIL EIREANN).
You might bring that with you and ask them about it. Seeing as Dail Eireann has not assented, the military flights at Shannon are 100% illegal. Anyone calling themselves a policeman and turning a blind eye to this crime should take a long look in the mirror. Point at the illegal plane if you can see it, ask them to look at it too. Many of them will refuse to acknowledge it. (Fear of being called as a witness in court, perhaps?)

Many of the ridiculous bye-laws would probably not hold up in court (which is why they haven't arrested anyone for holding a flag or banner - contrary to a bye-law, but part of the right to peaceful expression)
The constitution of course is the surpreme law of the land.
Ignoring that while harrassing people about some obscure bye-law is very petty and this should be politely pointed out every time they get snotty.

See you on Saturday.
Tim.

by Aisling Wed Oct 09, 2002 20:48

I think Tim is right, there is not much point in trying to get onto the runway, and very little chance of being able to en masse. Much better to block the one and only road in for as long as possible- simple and effective and no danger to anyone. See you on Saturday.

by doheochai - Socialist Party Thu Oct 10, 2002 00:13

It is a pity that someone from the Irish Anti-War movement didn't contact people from the area to ask their advice on the what would be the best way to conduct this demo. I live in Shannon, and for example, feel that assembling at the airport entrance is not the most suitable assembly point in Shannon. There have been numerous large demos in Shannon over the years none of which have assembled at the archway. You would be far more likely to pick up extra people from Shannon by assembing in the town centre. Also assembling at the airport entrance can cause difficulties for people using the normal buses to Shannon. There are a number of other important factors in relation to this, which I will not go into here as there is really no point at this stage.

Secondly I agree with Tim. There is really little point in trying to get over the fence as it would really be a counter-productive tactic. As I haven't attended meetings in Dublin I do not know what discussios have taken place about the purpose and follow-on from a demonstration at Shannon. Clearly, it provides an opportunity to raise public awareness about the issue. Hopping over the fence would have the opposite effect.

by bored Thu Oct 10, 2002 08:16

Don't remeber anyone discussing the tactics of reclaim the streets on the newswire.
surely it's bad tactics.

by Ray Thu Oct 10, 2002 09:22

- Don't remeber anyone discussing the tactics of reclaim the streets on the newswire.

That's because everyone knew what the general plan was already.
If you go on an RTS, you know that you're going to be blocking a street somewhere.
On most marches in Dublin, you know that you're going to end up listening to speeches somewhere.
As long as that's the case, I don't mind there being stewards saying, "Follow us, and we'll show you where to go".

But it could be a major problem if there are some people who want to engage in direct action, and the stewards take it upon themselves to decide that isn't going to happen.
So that's why its important to know - are the stewards going to be directing the demonstration according to some plan? If so, has this plan been agreed with all concerned beforehand?

I would really appreciate it if someone from the IAWM or one of the stewards answered these questions.

by Pier Paolo - Galway Thu Oct 10, 2002 09:31

Hi,
I was at the last demo at Shannon and the way we collectively decided what to do did work very well. Those who were there will remember that, as a result of the discussion, we divided in 2 groups: some did not want to disrupt the traffic and therefore decided to march along the fence, others wanted to disrupt the traffic and consequently marched along the public road.
The speakouts at the end of the demo were also very good.
Maybe those--like myself--who prefer this kind of decision making process and arrangements should meet at the entrance and have a meeting in which the course of action is decided democratically and collectively. Personally, I feel that the speakouts by the grassroots are a much more interesting and effective form of communication than the sort of rally we had at the last demo in Dublin, which reproduced old models and techniques of (mis)representation of the movement invoking the hierarchical and patronising relation between speaker (politician/expert) and audience (passive recipient).

by Pier Paolo Thu Oct 10, 2002 09:46

Yep...I meant "meet at the archway"

by Andrew Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:01

First off I think there is a need for someone from the IAWM movement to answer the questions about stewarding at least in a general way. This would save a lot of hassle on the day.

In terms of 'direct action'. I think its important to move from the situation of 'individaul martyrs' (IE Eoin) to mass tresspass. One is essentially a tokenistic (but useful) way of making a point. 500 people tresspassing would force the airport to shut and force the issue onto the national agenda.

That said a mass runway invasion is not ideal for the safety considerations already outlined. Thats why the idea has been floated of doing a mass arms inspection of the hangers. I guess leaving the final decision to the day itself makes sense, as last time we could have a mass meeting at the gates to do so. Again it would help to hear the 'offical' IAWM line on this beforehand.

by Aoife Ni Fhearghail - Irish Anti War Movement Thu Oct 10, 2002 11:40 info at irishantiwar dot org D8 087 7955013

In response to your questions:

'well-stewarded' means that the stewards from the Irish Anti-War Movement will do our best to ensure that the people that we bring from Dublin are not arrested, beaten up by gardaí, or run over by airplanes. That does not mean we will be telling anyone what to do.

We would like Saturday's protest to be open and to give people space to facilitate whatever different groups/individuals want to do. The IAWM is organising 2 protests, one a sit-down on the road in front of the terminal entrance, the other a symbolic protest standing at the airport fence. We have no plans to get onto the runways or climb the security fence, but have no intention of stopping others from doing so if that is what they wish to do.

We have been in contact with people from the area (suggest that the socialist party member communicates better with SP in Dublin who are part of the steering committee) and I'm going to ring round the different local anti-war groups later to get their ideas on Saturday.

No speakers are organised (apart from Patricia McKenna who I understand is coming on the bus) - what we had planned was to have an open mic (or megaphone as we have not booked a pa).

There are different ideas about invading the runway - basically we want to ensure the safety of anyone we bring with us on the bus (which will not be the typical anti-capitalist audience and includes a delegation of nuns from a Dublin convent). Also, some of us arrested at the Burlington last year have now been in court 7 times in the past year - and don't particularly relish the idea of 7 trips to court in Clare.

I'm sure there will be lots more posts on this - hopefully we can all agree to respect each other's protest on saturday. Tim's comments are very useful - we're trying to produce a 'know your rights' factsheet today along with the ICCL - just in case it's needed.

please ring me if you've got further suggestions as i won't be on the web again for an hour or 2

Aoife
087 7955013

by Andrew Thu Oct 10, 2002 11:45

Thanks to Aoife for clarifying this in advance of Saturday

Andrew

by Ray Thu Oct 10, 2002 11:55

There have been three suggestions for action so far -
Symbolic protest at the fence
Sit-down protest blocking the road
Mass 'inspection' of the hangars

It seems to me that the best thing to do is have a mass meeting at the airport so that people can then decide what to do.

There'll almost certainly be plenty of people there who don't want to go beyond a symbolic protest (and many have good reasons for that). The people who want a sit-down protest may want to join an 'inspection' if they know there are enough to do it. Similarly, the people who want to do an 'inspection' may be happy enough with a sit-down protest, especially if there aren't many people there. So a quick meeting to decide if there will be two or three actions seems like a good idea. (The stewards can also decide then which groups they want to go with)

I seem to remember reports from the plane-spotters that the airport police are prone to making up bye-laws when it suits them. Perhaps someone could bring along a couple of copies of the relevant bye-laws? (he says in complete ignorance of whether they'd take an A4 sheet or an encyclopedia)

by Pier Paolo - Galway Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:01

Hi Aoife,
thanks for this. It sounds good.
Andrew and all: if we decide to go ahead with the organising meeting on the day, it'd be better if we fix a time and place.

by yippies Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:53

we are actually planning a protest in a different geographical location in our many many secret rooms

by Aoife Ni Fhearghail - IAWM Thu Oct 10, 2002 13:12 info at irishantiwar dot org 087 7955013

I have a copy of bye-laws & airport layout - don't know how to upload this to web - if anyone wants copy email [email protected] & i'll send it on

Also, would appreciate some help putting up last minute shannon posters in Dublin city centre - if any of you have time please ring me at no. above

Aoife

by kahootz Thu Oct 10, 2002 13:13

are these the relevant by-laws? was there another act in 1968?

http://193.120.124.98/ZZA24Y1998S42.html

see 20:
http://193.120.124.98/ZZA24Y1998.html

see 47:
http://193.120.124.98/ZZA24Y1998S47.html

by Daithi Thu Oct 10, 2002 13:53

That's the criminal offence and the power delegated to set the individual bye-laws for each airport.

The offences in this act/regulations are very vague so it does depend on the bye-laws to some extent (dubious in constitutional terms but there you go).

Aoife, if you email me the bye-laws I'll put them on the web.

by Ray Fri Oct 11, 2002 10:01

Don't the posters say that the protest starts at 2pm at the airport entrance? That's when to have the (quick) meeting then...

by Pier Paolo Fri Oct 11, 2002 12:56

Of course, that's obvious...though the last time they stopped us at the archway and how do we know that this isn't going to happen this time?

by Ray Fri Oct 11, 2002 13:28

I know nothing of the layout of the airport, but...

maybe the archway could be a fall-back position if the entrance is blocked?

I don't know if there'll be a lot of problems with meeting up, though the assembly point might not be one that was chosen beforehand. The important thing is for people to be aware, when they do all assemble, that there'll have to be a quick meeting to decide who's doing what, because different people may have different plans...