Decentralise IMC IRL ASAP?

by Brian Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:23

Perhaps the imc's could be spread out on a province basis, because if we look at leinster for example there is a very large population outside of Dublin that, perhaps something like this, IMC Dublin, Cork, Galway and Belfast then Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Connaucht for more regional stuff!

by Graham Caswell Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:43

I think its important that any regional IMCs be bottom up rather than planned by IMC Ireland. If there's enough people, energy, local identity and demand for a regional IMC then it will happen. However if people say there 'should be' a Galway IMC or a Munster IMC or whatever then I don't think it would work.

However, we're only a little country. Do we need to split into smaller, local groups?

by Chekov Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:59

If there isn't the enthusiasm and desire to set up regional IMC's any attempts towards decentralisation is just wishful thinking. Unless there are a few people who are willing to put in the hard work in Galway, Cork, Limerick etc, then the ventures will not work. It is hard enough monitoring one newswire to filter out the racist stuff, offensive stuff and general spam that unless the energy is there we will get 5 newswires full of spam rather than one.

On the other hand, if there is even a few people keen to do the work in each city, Dublin IMC people should be willing to help out practically at the start.

In terms of getting this type of thing going, it could be a good idea to do some type of IMC tour as soon as the colleges are back. We could arrange speaking dates of IMC people in the various colleges around the country with the idea of trying to get people to set up their own regional site, or at least to give more non-Dublin input to Indymedia Ireland, encouraging people to write local articles and all that.

So how about an October IMC tour of the colleges? We could even combine it with an RTS tour, since RTS is the type of thing that could probably take off in a few different cities without too much trouble. It could be organised through One World, environmental and socialist societies in the various colleges, I know that gluaiseacht have good links with many of these groups and would be very sympathetic, What do people think?

by dt Fri Aug 23, 2002 13:40

...and as has been said the idea is smashing and if possible is definitely the way to go... but the bodies to participate is as ever, the problem...maybe a start could be made by having regional links from the main IMC site, that could be run by a small number in each area and may grow......

by Oliver O'Driscoll Fri Aug 23, 2002 19:24

In principle, it is a good idea and if it ever gets off the ground, I would be interested in getting involved.

by Aidan - IMC Ireland Fri Aug 23, 2002 19:45

Not to sound rude Oliver but that

"if it ever gets off the ground I'd be interested in getting involved" attitude is the problem.

It's not going to get off the ground unless people get involved. The fact is only one or two people from outside Dublin come up to meetings.

Yes it's unfair to ask people to come up and take part in a meeting for only a few hours. So we have a chicken and an egg problem, how do we decentralize when no one from other parts of Ireland are attending, and how can be we decentralize if we don't know people from outside "the pale" who want to get involved

Chekov's idea is a good one. The roadshow, however the fact is the actual amount of people who attent meetings and get work done is suprisingly small. Which begs the question is Indymedia Ireland ready to do this? Do we have the resources, money, time and equipment (theres a group in sligo interested but they don't have a computer, we've been trying to source a second hand or donated one for them)

Secondly theres a difference between Indymedia Ireland and the UK, we've a population thats smaller that a part of london, and no where is less than five hours drive away. How do we decentralise effectively, will their simply be four sites that rarely get updated, and four sites for an already over stretched editorial commitee to monitor?

Theres no easy answer. Announcing we want to decentralise after a few meetings in ecotopia is great n all, but we've been talking about this (more sitting around over a pint). Who do we meet in different areas? Are they able to work? I've seen lots of great ideas thrown about but the commitment required to see them through is often lacking; something I've encountered far too often when dealing with the left.

I don't think that theres the people there to do this yet.

by amanda - imc irl Fri Aug 23, 2002 20:16

The way I see it is that of course it would be great to have a lot of different sites from different areas. With a national site dealing with national items. But there are several problems with that.
The most obvious being volunteers. The way it stands at the moment I'm about the only active imc member outside of Dublin. Lots of people publish articles of course and are on the lists but they don't seem to come to or organise meetings (Jessamine excepted who has been to a couple) or to take an active editorial role on the site. And I'm moving to Dublin in a couple of months which leaves active imc members outside of Dublin at 0.
Another and perhaps more important problem long term is that of communication and support. At the moment, for example, when there is a critical mass, there will usually be an article from the Dublin critical mass activists to announcing their ride. And then in the comments notices of Limerick, Galway and Cork rides are put up by those involved with them. This means that there is a solidarity and interest between each event.
The same thing can apply to any campaign. If anti-incinerator campaigners in Cork are doing something then anti-incinerator campaigners in the other end of the country can learn about it and support it and arrange ways to support each other instead of working by themselves.
As Graham said, this is a small country do we realy need many seperate sites? I think that while it could be great it could also be damaging. An activist in Cork could log onto the Cork page and learn all about activities in Cork but not learn about different tactics or areas of support in the rest of the country.
And while alot of people are thinking now but couldnt you just look at other sites, isnt that what we do now across different countries. Well of course you could, if you have unlimited internet access. But if your only net access is in an incredibly expensive internet cafe or in a library where your time is limited to 50 minutes then you are going to want to get the most use out of a small amount of time. And trawling through 5 different sites full of cross-posts and spam (cause they will be) won't be the best way to do that.
As it is at the moment we see constant arguments on the newswire about the removal of cross-posted international stories as some people want full national and international cover together on the same site.
I'm not exactly against the idea of lots of different sites but it isnt something that should be rushed. It needs to be well thought out and all aspects need consideration. And decentralisation doesn't have to mean splitting up.
But what is desperately needed is active members outside of Dublin. Enough people seem to have an opinion or talk about being interested if it happens, but how about actually going for it and make it happen. Indymedia didnt happen by accident. Somebody had enough interest to make it happen. And that is what it needs. Don't wait for someone to organise a meeting in your area. Organise one yourself and even if only one person shows up then thats one more person who you can work with to make this happen.
Ok thats enough on the motivational speaking and the overuse of the word happen but I had to balance out the gloomy reservations of the first paragraphs.

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sat Aug 24, 2002 00:09

Wow, if I was overly sensitive, I might think you were having a go at me. Seriously though, due to the serious illness of my mother, it is impossible for me to attend meetings outside Limerick. If there was any activity or meeting been organised locally, then I would certainly show up as I very much support the Indymedia concept.

by john c Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:12

to be honest i find the current imc crew to be a bunch of pretentious wankers! okay, not all of them, but by golly i bet you know who you guys are, imc ireland is building itself up to be a dublin only club, best thing to do would be to have meetings outside of dublin on a rotational basis, this week dublin, next belfast, then galway, then cork, that way somebody would have to travel each time, thus sharing the weight of such journey's but oh no imc dublin will just say, its our baby we set it up, you guys come to us. pretentious wankers!

by Graham Caswell Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:57

John C's post above is ignorant in both meanings of the word.

Moving on though, why not use the technology that you're using to read this to its full potential? For example, IRC or even web-based chat meetings would solve transportation problems.

Perhaps we could put together a monthly process for discussion among IMC Ireland - something like this:

1st week: Submissions for agenda. Agenda is published at the end of the week.

2nd and 3rd week: Discussion of items on the agenda on the main mailing list.

4th Week: Online chat meeting 9on, say, the last Monday of every month) and publications of a summary/minutes.

Of course, face-to-face meetings are also very important for many reasons. But they don't have to all be in Dublin. Why can't there be a Cork IMC, a Limerick IMC, etc all with their own meetings, but all publishing on the indymedia.ie site? Indeed, if I live in Ballymagash and can get half a dozen heads from down the road to get together in the local pub and discuss independent media, then fair play. And if we can get it together enough to actually do something then all the better.

I live outside of Dublin and use sustainable transportation so I'm very aware of the difficulties of operating in a Dublin-centric Ireland. However I don't think its an either/or situation. We can have one IMC Ireland AND have regional and local IMCs as well.

There's power in collective action and strength in diversity. Lets have both!

by amanda - imc irl Sat Aug 24, 2002 14:38

Last week it was suggested that there be a meeting in Shannon or Limerick shortly before the Shannon protest. Apart from myself, who lives in Limerick, only two others both of whom were from Dublin said they would come.
Nobody from the rest of the country said they were interested. And no meeting went ahead.
There is no point in a group of people travelling a hundred miles across the country the country to meet with people who the live in the same area with.
Indymedia has always made an effort to coincide meetings with national events, and on a day when hundreds of people are in Dublin for a demonstration like an anti-war march or reclaim the streets, no more than two people from outside Dublin has ever showed up at an imc meeting.
If the interest isnt there, by which I mean active interest, regional imc's can't work.

by Shane Sat Aug 24, 2002 18:45

Think of your area- Limerick/ Cork / Sligo etc. Can you think of 12 stories from last 12 months? If you can just barely do so then that would mean only one new story a month.
Now think of those 12 stories again , would you be covering them any better then local press. While they might whinge about them, most will agree that local press can be very sympathetic to getting a story out, I'm thinking Ecotopia/ protect Plassey here in Limerick area.
There are some times when of course indymedia would be essential but I don't think it warrants the effort.
However there should be a belfast indymedia and there SHOULD BE a feature on the siege of Short Strand on the front page of indymedia ireland.

Why? because the mainstream media are refusing to cover it. This is our job.

by Aidan - IMC Ireland Sat Aug 24, 2002 19:39

Okay sorry Oliver nothing personnal alot of people have good reasons for not leaping on board, I was refering to people who were expecting the work to be done for them.

Shane. Okay yes, a short strand feature, but as a whinger pointed out most of us are in Dublin and can't report on whats going on. I've asked a group known as a the Belfast Media collective and asked them to contribute. Should there be a IMC Belfast? Okay, can people in Belfast get ready and organised, and we'll help. Theres no point saying "there should be an IMC Belfast" it's not going to happen until people in Belfast start getting organised

About decentralisation is there enough news and people willing to put in the work to justify these IMCs. I just wonder would there be enough news and activity to justify IMC Cork, or Limerick or Navan.

Instead of spliting off to three or four sites, people could work together and create a more vibrant and useful IMC Ireland. We could also set up a local news section.

So a question should be asked how do we get local and people from outside Dublin playing a more active role on the site, both as users and playing an active role in the running of IMC Ireland.

1. Yes IRC meetings are a way forward. We should be looking into this.

2. Theres talk of IMC Ireland giving a workshop at the community radio feile in September.

3. Re evalution of editorial policy, I'd like to see less international spam, and more local news. To foster this we may have to look at the editorial guidelines for crossposting and spamming.

4. This roadshow idea. If the work was split up between several different people it could be very effective and pausible.

Aidan

by Blisset (slight return) Sun Aug 25, 2002 11:02

Re - aidan's comments -Had lots of conversations about it in Ecotopia - biggest IRL activist Gathering I ever attended - didn't announce that it will happen - started a debate