No platform for Nick Griffin

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:45

and please do not go painting me as a fellow traveller of this individual.

You are posting under the banner of 'rights and freedoms'. Me, I go with whoever coined the phrase about disagreeing profoundly with someone's statement but being prepared to defend their right to say it.

Start outlawing this gentleman's statements and where do you stop? What if I find your post repugnant, rather than just counter-productive, and demand Indy exclude you?

I think you would be better occupied attending and demolishing his arguments. Otherwise the suspicion becomes that you are not capable of doing so.

Besides, all you are doing is publicising him.

Freedom and rights, but some will have more freedom and rights than others(those we agree with), rings Orwellian.

by Pip AFA Tue Dec 13, 2011 13:59

Opus, I would never associate you with Griffin but you ask those questions as if they had never been asked before. Every time a bunch of middle/upper class tossers invite a fascist scumbag over to get some attention we have the same discussion here. Here are some comments from the TCD debacle.

Griffins poison is not free speech it is fascist shit stirring, naive tools laying a red carpet for fascists thinking they can "defeat" them with debate are useful idiots to the likes of Griffin. You really believe your smug intellect will drive fascism back to the sewer? Give them an hour with you in some back steeet after winning your silly debate and you'll find out who'll be begging to return to what west brit little shits call the "mainland"

Mossin Nagant - AFA We are not fascists because we oppose fascists. If fascists are planning an attack on immigrants and we attack them first, does that make us as bad as them?

Griffin has convictions for racist attacks.

Equally I don't think that TCD Philosophical Society should be able to use taxpayers money to bring a fascist to speak in Dublin Pip AFA

AFA statement on withdrawl of Nick griffin's invitation to TCD

Anti-Fascist Action welcomed the decision today of Trinity's Philosophical Society to withdraw the invitation to Nick griffin, leader of the far-right British National Party (BNP), who was due to speak at a debate entitled 'This House Believes That Immigration Has Gone Too Far' next Thursday 20th October.

Far-right organisers like griffin do not come to speak at universities to engage in polite debate. They use these occasions as a platform to help spread their racist, homophobic, anti-immigrant and anti-Trade Union views. As such, militant anti-fascists will always oppose such events.

A spokeswoman for Trinity said the invite had been withdrawn after staff and students objected to the visit of griffin, a holocaust denier who has been involved in far-right politics in England since the late 1970s. Last night, 13 October, thirty AFA members and supporters called into the weekly PhilSoc debate, as part of a campaign against griffin’s invitation. We feel that this proved to be the tipping point for PhilSoc and the college authorities to withdraw the invitation.

This direct action was the culmination of a number of weeks work by AFA which included a mass email campaign, the production of several hundred stickers and the setting up of a Facebook page, entitled 'No Platform For Nazi Nick griffin in Dublin', which attracted the 'likes' of over 580 people.

AFA, who have been active in confronting fascism for nearly twenty years, have always adopted the dual strategy of both physical and political opposition when confronting fascism whether Irish or International, group or individual.

Lastly, we would also like to commend the broad based Students Against Fascism group who organised against the planned visit, particularly on campus.

https://www.facebook.com/afaireland

by Pip AFA Tue Dec 13, 2011 17:46

The SWP tried to imply that they were responsible for stopping Griffin in TCD.

Some facts:

No SWP or SWSS member were among those that entered the Phil meeting and through confronting the twits ensured there would be no platform for Griffin.

No SWP or SWSS member were at the meeting that organised the above and other protests.

Fascism is not stopped by petitions or stiff letters from academics.

by Diarmuid Breatnach - Personal Capacity Wed Dec 14, 2011 00:02

I'm with Pip on this. I have not only read about the tactics of fascists but have seen them in action for many years in London. On whatever public platforms or media they can gain they bleat about their "democratic right" to speak and to organise while their thugs attack migrants, socialists, gays and active trade unionists. These attacks range from beatings, through to stabbings and petrol-bombing. The more out in the open they are permitted, the more confidence they gain and the more the attacks increase. It is also well established that at times of crisis they are funded by big capitalists in order to break up workers' resistance. I feel that Opus is speaking from a libertarian-anarchist position. The anarchist movement in Britain had some division in their ranks on this issue. Some took a similar position to Opus while the majority, to my recollection, took the line of active resistance, both in theory and in practice.

by Damien M - PW Wed Dec 14, 2011 00:57

No sign of the brave activists at AFA and all the rest when Anhem Choudhary and the rest of his extremic-Islam lot showed up spouting their own brand of hate, no sirree they were wa(i)ved through. No placards when Choudhary claimed Irish were legitimate targets over the use of Shannon. Their will be much worse attacks than Diarmuid has mentioned if Choudhary and his lot get their Caliphate dream.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Dec 14, 2011 14:42

Dont you think using Shannon to facilitate the ever-escalating Bush wars under NATO expose Ireland to potential retaliatory, and by rules of warfare, (if such a concept where all's fair etc. can be entertained)justified atrocities??

Seems simple enough logic to me. Its the logic the IRA and others have used in their campaigns, as it is the logic BAe-bi Face Blair and Bush used to enable their illegal wars against Afghani and Iraqi cities with 21st century technologies against underdeveloped societies.

And given the topic(we really should visit it) will you be clapping this Griffin genius?

Oh, and Diarmuid, whats a Libertarian-Anarchist when its at home??I merely spotted an apparent contradiction(a tendency of mine)and queried it. I'm more worried about the closet fascists like Quaggy Myres and the PD neo-cons who have infected our whole culture over the last quater century since King Charlie Kinsealy did his Dallas routine....and you can stil hear his sponsor Lord Dunne on regular media pontification apparently with the same free-pass as Declan Pentagon Ganley. Griffin smells like decoy duck to me. That said, if he's travelling with knuckle-dust, take him somewhere quite for a word in his ear. Remind him of our history, he's probably a victim of British education.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Thu Dec 15, 2011 16:06

I think it should be pointed out to pip that that dismissing people as '...middle/upper class tossers..' and '..fascist scumbags..' is actually descending to fascistic abuse rather than elucidating the issue.

The implication is that 'lower class' tossers are rarer than my experience indicates. I suggest pip read a little more about the methodology of fascist and nazi forms of argument and refine his/her terminology. It was the lumpen left Mussolini and Adolf recruited for their dirty work. Nor is the working class yet short on scabs. Not too much solidarity to be shown by the unionised towards the disemployed or we might be hearing calls for shorter working weeks and job-sharing plus wealth re-division.

At the moment the left is rowing in behind campaigns for anti-property-tax measures cheerleaded by the same TDs as dont want 2 euros a week on their half-million mansions...but not a fucking whisper about the fuel-allowance slash or the presumption that emigration is back on our solution-menu..

Speakin(meta4iklee)of which...if this head(Griffin) is so anti-immigration...would the way to go not be to set up an End to Emigration meeting and point out the symbiosis of the two-sided coin??

Again, Aneurin Bevan(1897-1960)...'Fascism is not in itself a new order of society. It is the future refusing to be born.' The term ' little Hitler' used to be used to illustrate this unbiquitous factor in the phenomenon.

As c3po's poster indicates...if you think its that simple...you dont understand the problem. Each of us bears the seeds of fascistic behaviour....to project it simplistically is a self-purification reflecting the nature of the very fascism we should all be fighting...after all Churchill was the fascist(read his biographies) who illustrated that it takes one to know one..thats why he was the early warning canary for the fascistic Brutish empire that perfected the methodology centuries ago..using this island as its primary laboratory. The current locus of fascistic imperialism is the US/EU axis of virtue, using NATO  as its (desert)stormtroopers. Their democracy is as spurious as their uranium is depleted. And we are implicated, as is generally accepted, through our facilitation of the gestapo renditions and resource wars which are always central.

by 2wired Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:27

Judging by the carry on 10 years ago when they "protested" against David Irving attending a talk in UCC, where planned violence took place leading to the Socialist Society, then run by Mick Barry, being banned for their part, people where are not members of the student body should butt the hell out and mind their own business. Students are well capable of seperating bullshit from reality, so are unlikely to become indocternated by the views of these unpopular bigots. It gives them a change to verbally challenge the teachings and views of these people, and teaches them the value of having the balls and brains to stand up to views they dont agree with using elequent arguement rather than mindless chants or, worse still, intimidation.

by Nick Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:49

BNP supporters appreciated the organisation’s "ability to back up its slogan ‘Defend Rights for Whites’ with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate."

Nick Griffin writing in 1993 - of course none of the student 'debaters' expect to be around when the boots & fists come out so they can feel safe claiming it is all about ideas. Fortunately not everyone in Cork or elsewhere in Ireland is so dumb.

by Pip Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:03

Ifa fascist is speaking in Cork then its not just the business of students. Your liberal opinions would get no platform under Griffin. Irving was stopped and Griffin will also be stopped. The publicity seeking students who invited Griffin will bear personal responsibility for what happens on the night..

by Pip Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:28

Racist gets some of his own medicene. He wont be attacking any immigrants for a while. I'm sure the Rebel Boys & Girls of Cork will also give Griffin a warm welcome.The report is from a site sympathetic to the EDL, hence the tone. It was nice of the attackers to wish Tommy a Merry Xmas.

Breaking: Tommy Robinson Attacked by “Youths”

Update 3:26pm EST: Message from Tommy: "They were shouting ‘allahu akhbar’ and ‘Merry Christmas, Tommy’”. Also: He had a C.T. scan, and apparently has “bruising of the brain”. He got out of hospital this afternoon.

Update 3:11pm EST: Last night English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson was attacked and beaten up by a gang of “Asians”. The following report just came in from a source in the EDL: He was out driving, when he saw a car similar to his wife’s, driven by a blond white girl. The other car flashed its lights so Tommy pulled over.A group of Pakistani youths wearing knuckle dusters poured out. Tommy was knocked out pretty quickly, and they gave him a good kicking.

He looks pretty beaten up, but no bones were broken, and no eyes or teeth are missing. He had a brain scan this morning. We don’t know the results yet. He has spoken to The Sun, who asked whether he had called the police. Tommy said there was no point, as a racial attack on a white guy was of no interest to them.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:11

...but to me that rings like a celebration of fascist thugishness justified by his earlier racist hate-speech. Had this Robinson been caught actually leading a physical assault i might share your chortle, otherwise i think a few days kidnap for re-education would have been more appropriate. All this does is refuel the hate-cycle, and I'd predict some innocent Asian kid will pay for the joy you express.

by Bob Doyle Tue Dec 27, 2011 17:10

Griffin and his supporters in Cork will be opposed by anti-fascists from the county and beyond. No Platform!

by Pip Sun Jan 29, 2012 14:29

on this topic you unfortunately talk nonsense. Are those who attack fascists also fascists? Were those who used violence to fight thr nazis also nazis?

Imho there is a difference between those who attack fascists and those self same fascists who attack minorities. It is ridiclious to suggest that we should wait to catch them in the act. When you know that people have carried out racist attacks and are boasting about it then you dont wait for them to strike again.

I know you are not just a liberal but in this case you come across like one.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Jan 29, 2012 14:59

..I'm typing, not talking...so who's short on sense?

And rather than address my criticism and deconstruct the argument you dismiss it, with insult.
Perhaps I should be silenced too?

Your reply illustrates nicely just how infectious fascistic illogicality can be. Ta for saving me any further trouble elaborating.

Its a short step from overt fascists denying left-wingers space to Stalinist righteousness and counter-fascism.
That it is REACTION is no excuse. I'm sick to death of seeing pro-Palestinians slide from anti-Zionism into antisemitism, and republican reaction mirror loyalist thuggery. And i grow tired of trying to keep a fucking finger of sense in the dyke of counter-stupidity, only to be berated for nonsense when i advocate caution. While you lads are getting your rocks off feeling your righteous lefty testosterone, the financial puppeteers are laughing all the way to their Swiss accounts.

by Pip Sun Jan 29, 2012 16:02

I'm typing, not talking...so who's short on sense?

Now thats just silly.

And rather than address my criticism and deconstruct the argument you dismiss it, with insult.

AFA deconstrusts their argument, you choose to ignore that.

Perhaps I should be silenced too?

Man of straw. Why would I bother arguing with you if I wanted you shut up?

Your reply illustrates nicely just how infectious fascistic illogicality can be. Ta for saving me any further trouble elaborating.

Thats a non-sequitar, seeing as you go on with the paragraph below. If theres any infectiousness its the way you swallow liberal nonsense.

Its a short step from overt fascists denying left-wingers space to Stalinist righteousness and counter-fascism.
That it is REACTION is no excuse.

No its not. Preventing a known fascist and racist from speaking is not fascistic or stalinist. Just as attacking fascists to prevent them from carrying out racist attacks does not make the Antifas the same as as the fascists.

I'm sick to death of seeing pro-Palestinians slide from anti-Zionism into antisemitism, and republican reaction mirror loyalist thuggery

Well raise that on the relevant threads. Don't bring more men of straw into this debate. You won't find any support for anti-semitism or sectarianism in AFA.

. And i grow tired of trying to keep a fucking finger of sense in the dyke of counter-stupidity, only to be berated for nonsense when i advocate caution

You are not advocating caution, your policies advocate surrender to the fascists.

. While you lads are getting your rocks off feeling your righteous lefty testosterone, the financial puppeteers are laughing all the way to their Swiss account

No one in AFA gets their rocks off in launching attacks on fascists. Planning any such action requires careful collation of intelligence. Any action is carried out in a calculated manner, no headbangers are of any use in such actions.

Fighting against the cutbacks is something that AFA members are involved in but as members of other organisations.

It is ridiclious to suggest that we should not combat fascism because of financial puppeteers. Using that logic the the puppeteers are also laughing because Irish people oppose Zionism* and Loyalism*?

* You brought them into this thread,

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Jan 29, 2012 16:36

I'd say, pip, I've punched out more fascists than the average. And had my head kicked in by more fascistic gangs than you have. Only they weren't usually wearing armbands and card-carrying. And that covers a variey of countries. Its more ubiquitous than you seem to recognise.

I still say you're giving the shit the publicity it craves. Work away.

by Pip Sun Jan 29, 2012 16:53

I've never clashed with a fash wearing a swastika armband. I've been involved more than 30 years in the socialist movement so, judging by your comments on various threads I'd say we have similar histories. At least regarding years.

I just think you are wrong in this case.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Jan 29, 2012 17:17

is that violence is the last call.

If I was to go this prick's speech, I'd go over the top and wear an armband and goosestep up and down...shout Heil Griffin till I was thrown out. I think ridicule hurts them more than the knuckle..thats what they really fear. Deliver it that way. And if it draws them out..then hammer away.
Meantime the OTT should wake a few sleepers.

by C3PO Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:24

this makes rather a relevant point here I think