Joe higgins interviewed on RT. By contrast, Vincent brown sneers at him and screws shell to sea

by viewer Sat Dec 11, 2010 22:48

I agree wholeheartedly with your accurate summary of justice for poor people under the Irish legal system. A friend of mine worked in a legal office and it worked exactly as you describe. According to my friend, pretty much every one of them he had dealings with did too. While visiting my friend one day, i was chatting to a barrister and he said "truth and justice are just words in the dictionary and have nothing to do with what goes on in an irish courtroom". From the horses mouth.

by viewer Sat Dec 11, 2010 22:36

Perhaps I overstated it Jacqueline. If so, I do apologise. However in my opinion, the underlying implication in this comment seems to be that wikileaks is somehow linked to imperialism or else assange would be dead by now.
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-ireland-newswi....html

Not a lie though. Unless perhaps somebody is impersonating you around here Jacqueline?? I hope not. One of you is plenty!! ;-)

by Jacqueline Fallon Sat Dec 11, 2010 21:05

Quote: "And I class it alongside your conspiracy theory that wikileaks is run by the US government".

The above statement by 'viewer' is a lie - I have never ever made such a bizarre statement.

I am no fan of the current Irish 'justice system' - I hate it - because I know from years of experience it aids and defends the wealthy more than the poor (as it obtains the most money from them, therefore, invests and promotes and defends their interests to the hilt, as it is from them that the barristers and solicitors gain the most income from and, therefore, they don't mind doing the extra overtime or doing the late nights for the rich, but not for the poor. In most cases, there's no overtime done for the poor, and those without money fair much worse and don't get the same attention and end up prosecuted and imprisoned, mostly regarded as a burden and not worth bothering with or spending time on. Anyone who works in a legal office knows how cases are taken on and decided upon and how case loads are prioritised by firms (i.e. by those worth the most financially to the firm or politically advantageous, whilst others of lesser value are dropped or left waiting and wanting, or suffer sudden deaths). Money talks and can truly set you free - but only if you are rich and can pay your way along the long winding road of the Irish justice system, where cases drag on and on for years at enormous expense to everyone until one party runs out of money and can't afford to defend its position. Yes, I absolutely hate the Irish justice system, as I see very little justice in it.

I was not defending Vincent Browne, he does not need defending, as I can't see what he has done wrong.

I have always supported the Shell to Sea campaign and I wish them continued success with it and always will.

by viewer Sat Dec 11, 2010 19:18

"as some ideals people have are admirable, but unrealistic in the current bleak economic climate."

Thats merely your opinion Jacqueline. And I class it alongside your conspiracy theory that wikileaks is run by the US government.

If we commit to burn the senior bondholders and let the banks sink and take a radical approach then other possibilities open up. After all the argument is "we need a banking system to function" but why does it have to be this one based on gambling and corruption. It doesn't. For example, Credit unions are there and could take up slack with loans to performing SME's if they had some direct investment to help them.

I suspect republicans like you take pleasure in the very shitty way VB treats SF members that appears on his show jacqueline. A natural and unsurprising alliance which gives weight to the assertion that he does.

It's comical to hear a possible supporter (don't want to be sued do I!!) of lawless behaviour citing legal considerations as a valid defence of a media hack protecting corporate interests (TV3's and Topaz's)

Tiocfaidh our law Jackie! ( But not any time soon )

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Dec 11, 2010 18:23

'..bleak climate.'

You make it sound like a state of nature rather than a set of conditions imposed by a coalition of currency, share, bond and property speculators who are using not just the resources of the planet but the populations(including the future generations)as chips in their casino directed to no further end than their own self-enrichment. Our kids are their 'futures market in labour units'.

No comment on the collusion of the fourth estate in the 'climate' creation.

no critique of the law as a weapon to facilitate the powerful in their self-agrandisement and to batter the media into compliance with their subversion of democratic practise.

And the use of the same law to criminalise any form of expression that challenges the corporate collusion in a consensus that ensures maximisation of advertising revenue uber alles.

I have some respect for VB, but your comment lessens it, if anything. You do yourself, and him, no favours.

Its like a cross between a Maynooth and a Manseragh. You obviously know your law.

by Jacqueline Fallon Sat Dec 11, 2010 18:01

Quote "Pierce Doherty of Sinn Fein, the one sane voice advocating a rejection of the bank guarantee"

Provisional Sinn Féin supported the bank guarantee - Pearse Doherty, T.D. is representing a party that has already voted and supported the bank guarantee.

by Jacqueline Fallon Sat Dec 11, 2010 17:03

All media outlets can be sued if banners are published in newspapers or shown on t.v. misrepresenting its company, or putting a slur on a company's name or on an individual, or connecting a company to events that it has no involvement in or control over, that is not just my opinion - it is legal fact.

I presume that Vincent Browne, as a legal eagle (trained as a barrister) was merely protecting his own show from any potential litigation by Topaz (from being sued by Topaz for misrepresentation or a slur on the company name) - I believe he had no interest other than that at the time of broadcasting, as he is well aware of the consequences of litigation proceedings and had to distance himself from the banner, because if he did not, then Topaz might have thought that both TV3 and Vincent Browne collaborated to create the banner and agree its wording and/or agree for it to be displayed so prominently on his show - which he evidently did not, so he had to state that fact publicly in case the Topaz's legal counsel were tuned into the show. Time and time again, he has to jump to correct statements made my panel members on his show for the same reason about other firms, when there is a tendency to demonise or generalise about people working in particular firms regardless of what level they are working at.

I don't believe Vincent Browne interviewed Joe Higgins, MEP, in a snide manner. In my opinion, Vincent Browne treats every politician with derision and sceptism and I believe he is right to do so, and right to question them, as some ideals people have are admirable, but unrealistic in the current bleak economic climate.

by Frank Sat Dec 11, 2010 16:45

"Have we sunk so low that even deigning to actually talk to the great unwashed qualifies you as a great media champion??"

Depth would seem to be a problem for you.

"You misrepresent the snide way he talked to Joe higgins, versus his pally jovial attitude to FF/FG hacks and his clear distaste for having to talk to pearse doherty even though he was the only person to talk sense about the bank crisis. You also neglect to comment on his blatant corporate crawl to topaz/shell. He also said other things off camera about shell to sea that showed a certain typical attitude towards the campaign in my opinion."

I misrepresent nothing, you, on the other hand, seem to be in need to demonise Browne so as to deflect attention away from the poor answers given to his questions.

"Joe breaks his ass."

So?

" It's not his fault the Irish public are apathetic and more concerned with xfactor than reality and vote for people wqho continually shaft them in spite of clear warnings from people like Joe. In the face of that kind of irrationality, I'd struggle for an answer too."

It seems to be everbody elses fault, is that it?

"Browne treats them in a very pally manner too. contrastingly, he treats SF guests badly."

You don't get this media thing do you? The questions are theirs but the answers are yours. The only journalist to stick it to Cowen at the IMF press conference was Browne, so much so that RTE cut him off.

"what do you mean by the republican left here?? and you say "OUR" ability. Are you a republican frank? Certainly don't sound like one to me!"

Yes, I am a republican and the reason I may not sound like one to you I suspect is due to the absence of meaningless anger and cynicism in what I have to say.

"This I agree with Frank. People like Vincent won't do it for us."

So stop shouting meaningless abuse at him and focus on the task at hand.

by viewer Fri Dec 10, 2010 23:23

"Firstly at least Browne went down to the protest and spoke to them, and not for the first time. "

Have we sunk so low that even deigning to actually talk to the great unwashed qualifies you as a great media champion??

"Secondly I think Browne was right to cut to the chase with Joe Higgins;"

You misrepresent the snide way he talked to Joe higgins, versus his pally jovial attitude to FF/FG hacks and his clear distaste for having to talk to pearse doherty even though he was the only person to talk sense about the bank crisis. You also neglect to comment on his blatant corporate crawl to topaz/shell. He also said other things off camera about shell to sea that showed a certain typical attitude towards the campaign in my opinion.

"why are there so few protestors and given that how could Joe's alternative be credible. Higgins struggled to answer on both points"

Joe breaks his ass. It's not his fault the Irish public are apathetic and more concerned with xfactor than reality and vote for people wqho continually shaft them in spite of clear warnings from people like Joe. In the face of that kind of irrationality, I'd struggle for an answer too.

"Browne has a hate him or love him persona but he does get stuck in as opposed to the love ins FF get in RTE."

Browne treats them in a very pally manner too. contrastingly, he treats SF guests badly.

"But the real point is this: the republican left are bankrupt in terms of our ability to protest in an effective manner. "

what do you mean by the republican left here?? and you say "OUR" ability. Are you a republican frank? Certainly don't sound like one to me!

"Radical thinking in terms of new means of protesting is essential now. "

This I agree with Frank. People like Vincent won't do it for us.

by Naked Lunch Fri Dec 10, 2010 22:29

Yes, the autopsy showed that Ryan was high on cocaine. He could afford on 1 million euros a year from RTE.

Ryan inquest told cocaine use contributed to death

The inquest into the death of broadcaster Gerry Ryan has found he died of heart failure with cocaine as a probable trigger factor.

Dublin City Coroner Dr Brian Farrell said the death was sudden and unexpected, with "cocaine as a significant risk factor". He returned a verdict of death by misadventure.

The RTÉ broadcaster died on April 30th this year. He was discovered in his flat in Leeson Street Dublin by his girlfriend Melanie Verwoerd, and her son.

Pathology reports showed the cause of death was cardiac arrhythmia, most likely caused by cocaine consumption.

The inquest was also told that Ryan had been under extreme stress from his personal situation, financial affairs and work.

Pathologist Dr Eamon Leen, who carried out the autopsy on Ryan's body, said his heart had chronic scarring which could have been caused by previous cocaine use or by a viral infection in the past.

The doctor could not definitively say what the cause of the scarring was because he did not know Ryan's history, he said.

Metabolites of cocaine, created when the body breaks down the drug, were found in blood and urine samples along with a metabolite created when alcohol is mixed with cocaine.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1210/....html

by Frank Fri Dec 10, 2010 22:20

A couple of points. Firstly at least Browne went down to the protest and spoke to them, and not for the first time. Secondly I think Browne was right to cut to the chase with Joe Higgins; why are there so few protestors and given that how could Joe's alternative be credible. Higgins struggled to answer on both points.

Browne has a hate him or love him persona but he does get stuck in as opposed to the love ins FF get in RTE. But the real point is this: the republican left are bankrupt in terms of our ability to protest in an effective manner. Radical thinking in terms of new means of protesting is essential now.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Dec 10, 2010 15:18

For that diagnosis. Its been obvious for years how the wiring was getting scorched. I'd say he was getting tired of seeing Hughie Green in his shaving mirror.

by Obit Fri Dec 10, 2010 15:07

The media are mostly a bunch of corrupt overpaid egoists

Just heard on the news the media bread and circuses "god" naff presenter Gerry Ryan about whom there was such a disproportionate amount of sycophantic media coverage died from snorting too much cocaine.

by Oily Fri Dec 10, 2010 05:17

They are both large scale giveaways of our public resources to corporate private entities

by Expoited Fri Dec 10, 2010 01:35

I'm no fan of VB I find him quite vacuous, but I agree with Ronnie, S2S were pretty shameless about trying to get their banners in front of every camera shot.
I mentioned this on the (ironically titled?) thread "Budget Day Drama on Kildare St" but my comment was deleted. I am not trying to be divisive in any way, I'm just really concerned. The situation here is at a real crisis point. I had just come back from the demo and was shocked at how s2s were behaving like the 2 corporate advertisers there -one was for "cash for gold" and the other for mobile phones. They would constantly shimmy their banners to get behind every shot of a pensioner with a pot and pan. A fair amount of people at the demo were commenting on it and I heard some of the pots and panners trying to move away from all the banners as most of them are non-alligned, just pissed off with the bailout and the budget.

Mise Tara 7 calls it media jacking but when i left the demo on Tuesday i felt dismayed by it all, as though one organisation was trying to co-opt the space (and i support s2s!). I understand the concept of media jacking -but surely the banner you display should be related to the protest at hand. The demo on Tuesday was against the budget and the bailout, so what did the single issue s2s banner mean? Nationalize the gas and payback the IMF/ECB? Nationalise the gas and give AIB more bonuses? (I know that's not what is meant but it looked so off-topic reflected on the mainstream media images that came back from the demo it made me wince).

Seriously folks, we need WAY WAY WAY more people to come out to this Wednesdays bailout vote. We need folks of all ages, from all over the country, pensioners and students and parents and pascifists and militants and cherry pickers and anyone who feels that enough is enough. There were some brilliant hand made, vitriolic and humorous signs on Tue night and at the demo 2 Saturdays ago, bring more of those. People just won't come down if they think its only for groups they are not part of.
Please can we shelve the single issue campaigns just for once and have a huge gathering of all kinds of people. This is so urgent, we need a massive broad based and defiant coalition of EVERYONE.

by Marc Spring Thu Dec 09, 2010 21:49

In the (tiny) panoply of Irish 'serious' media stars, Vincent Browne is the designated token 'lefty journalist'. If it wasn't for him, nobody at all would interview the community workers, the committed activists with small movements, the representatives of small political parties. Then what would the world say about the Irish media scene? The paucity of intelligent, honest journalism would be even more obvious. So he serves a function useful to the Irish establishement .

And within those parameters he is pretty safe really. He appears to be criticising the establishment, but when you examine the fine grain of what he says up close, you realise his attitude towards the key figures is inexplicably matey. Inexplicably, that is, only if you try to take his criticisms seriously. He's being a 'good boy'.

To make it safer, he cavorts, caricatures himself and grins like a monkey to help fills the bill as the harmless eccentric lefty court jester, so that the big guys won't be really offended. During the boom he would rail against FF policy, but then finish by inexplicably saying that Bertie Ahern was a nice bloke.

He's like the rest of them, he went to the right schools. The same schools as anyone who really matters in Irish society. You can tell from his accent and delivery and matey attitude to the big guys.

The Irish media is unable to really say who is wrong and who is right on the big issues like the bank bailouts. But they are well able to identify that Rossport people, a fucking tiny community that has been screwed over by the media and politicians again and again, are baaaaad bad people - why? Mainly because they refuse to obey the 'big serious' journalists who act as the gatekeepers of the mass media organs and decide who will be heard, and who will be silenced.

Forget him and his likes. Get your info from the streets and from the web. And act!

by Mise Tara 7 Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:00

Good mediajack Shell to Sea on Fox News , getting the message out to millions well done .

Interesting to see International media have no problem with background protests yet the Irish media assault and abuse people ,then call the cops! Vincent Brown became irate with Mr.Harrington from Shell to Sea moaning "your fucking up my shot , your fucking up my shot" (the TV3 mantra) .Tip Vincent the amount of Max Factor you had on was far more distracting than a background poster .

by W. Finnerty Thu Dec 09, 2010 07:08

The really big lesson that Sinn Féin Finance Spokesperson Pearse Doherty TD has thought us all (in my view), is that through the correct and well-informed use of our Constitution (Bunreacht na hEireann), any one of the three main branches of our Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial), can stop wrongdoing by either (or both) of the other two.

In his case he used the Judicial branch to stop wrongdoing by the Executive: and, as I see things at least, with first-class results (thanks to all involved).

I believe we need more of this, much more, and we need it FAST.

Put slightly differently, we need to take back our Constitution, and the "Tri-Partite Separation of Powers Principle" upon which it is based, and, in all future general elections, we need to vote ONLY for TDs who are willing to gently but firmly follow (and constantly support) that core-issue pursuit, as Pearse Doherty has done, and hopefully will continue to do.

Otherwise, I believe we will lose our sovereign independent state of the Republic of Ireland.

In reality, and as recent events powerfully demonstrate, we have already lost a huge part of our sovereignty to the "invisible global government" of the "invisible global banking cartel"; and, we are (I believe) within a "hair's breadth" of losing it altogether: if, that is, we don't pay more attention to what may be the only solution: and which, as Pearse Doherty has recently proved, really does work.

by tired taxpayer Thu Dec 09, 2010 04:52

Vincent Browne has seemed to be on the side of the disadvantaged in some of his writings and broadcasts going back over several decades of his output. He has chopped and changed and blown hot and cold, sometimes praising Charles J. Haughey and later excoriating him. Much off-the-cuff journalism is intended for next day's paper or next month's magazine. Fill the space with something before the deadline, is the editor's motto.

My complaint with journalist celebrities like Browne is that they are too much in the public ear and the public view. They play too much of an unaccountable role in the public domain, and seem to take on themselves the general role of doing our thinking for us. Their celeb dominance also can give the mistaken impression that because they write a daring article or host a revealing television discussion 'something is being done' when in fact readers and viewers are sedated at home on their sofas. Like many a politician who gets soundbites of concern into the media, celeb journalists who nod towards the disadvantaged enjoy metropolitan lifestyles far removed from the daily tedium of communities living on the edge.

Joe Higgins, incidentally, has a fine ability to compress acute economic thoughts into speeches and interviews that plain people can understand. I am not a member of his party when I say this.

by Madam K Wed Dec 08, 2010 23:21

Will upload soon , let it speak for itself ...

by viewer Wed Dec 08, 2010 21:54

Ok, here's 4 ideas off the top of my head

(1) vote for SF / ULA candidates only in next election. Pearse doherty and ULA candidates are willing to renege on the bank guarantee
(2) national strikes
(3) regular organised internet DDOS attacks on complicit bank / govt / media websites a la wikileaks supporters.
(4) withdraw all funds from banks. they aren't lending anyway so why not sink them?.

you are just trying to be divisive and peddling submission. FF lapdog no doubt. Don't waste MY time!

by Jason Michael Wed Dec 08, 2010 21:32

Thanks for the brave, but empty words, "viewer." There are plenty of ways the Irish can make a difference to this situation? Go on, start listing them off. Stop the unrealistic optimism please, the Irish have in the main behaved like cowering dogs. They have done just as was expected; rolled over. Now the protest movement will quieten down - as there ain't much more to happen buddy - and time will roll on past. Please stop wasting my time.

by viewer Wed Dec 08, 2010 21:16

"Last night was the last real shot the people of Ireland had to present real opposition to the brutality of the Irish government"

With all due respect, thats bollocks. There are still lots of good ways the irish people can resist this if they choose to. All it takes is a little courage and a little imagination. But right wing commentators would like nothing better than if they chose to roll over like obedient little dogs as you are suggesting they have no alternative but to do.

And if VB rolls over for his corporate sponsors and at such a crucial time as he did last night, then he is of little use to us and he deserves whatever criticism he gets.

That myopic "ah he's not all that bad" cult of personality helped to get us where we are today.
VB chose to virtually sabotage a key left figure and shell to sea at a crucial moment when the world was watching, whilst at the same time having positively amiable interactions with FF/FG figures who either did this to us or who would continue to do this to us and sell off our state companies.

VB is often especially unpleasant to SF or strongly left people on his show. He treated mary lou like shit last time she was on.

It's sad we have to rely on foreign media or youtube to give the irish left some half decent video coverage. And you can't even access VB's crappy show without compulsory registration on his site wheras RT / al jazeera material is freely available on youtube

"ah give vincent a break" my arse.

by Ronnie Wed Dec 08, 2010 19:52

Just a few points.
VB is by far the best of his type in the mainstream.
Shell to Sea spent all day trying to get their banners on tv. Not the most media savvy that, sorry.
VB lashes into everyone. Give him a break.

by Jason Michael Wed Dec 08, 2010 19:10

A Chara, so many people were appalled with the comments of Vincent Browne last night. The show failed to make any critical assessment of the reality of the situation here in Dublin. The young lad who performed an over-long sales pitch for twitter.com was shocking, along with the young woman who suggested that strike action would be bad for the country. In all fairness this has been the worst that the Vincent Browne show has been, but we must be careful to present independent news in a more critical manner. Your own argument, however valid, is presented in an overly emotive and uncritical manner. The sad truth is that Vincent is not to blame for the problem. Last night was the last real shot the people of Ireland had to present real opposition to the brutality of the Irish government. It failed to do this.