Why Is the IMF / EU Propping Up A Failed and Malfeasant Government?

by children_of_lir Sun Nov 14, 2010 02:57

This could be a golden opportunity for Ireland to clean up its house and get rid of the corruption. The focus should be to remove these people from office.

by Blazes Boylan Mon Nov 15, 2010 09:04

I'm sure you all know about these sections in the Constitution -

Article 17 (2): "Dáil Éireann shall not pass any vote or resolution, and no law shall be enacted, for the appropriation of revenue or other public moneys unless the purpose of the appropriation shall have been recommended to Dáil Éireann by a message from the Government signed by the Taoiseach."

Article 28 (4) 4: "The Government shall prepare Estimates of the Receipts and Estimates of the Expenditure of the State for each financial year, and shall present them to Dáil Éireann for consideration."

How do these sanction Brian Lenihan to give a blank cheque to anyone?

by children_of_lir Mon Nov 15, 2010 09:43

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-to-seek....html

"Lenihan 'to seek EU funds for the banks'
Move would let State save face and avoid bailout threat"

Time for a new party to emerge from the ashes.

by Blazes Boylan Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:36

(Denial etc. - that reminds me of good ol' Al Gore...)

The ever-changing situation seems to be -

1. The govt wants money for the banks (as ever) but not for itself. Not yet anyway, not until the middle of 2011. Or maybe until March 2011 - everyone is a bit vague on the date, as there might be an election anytime.

2. Everyone else around the world who can count has very unsportingly added the banks' and govt debts together. They are saying we can't afford the combined total. That raises a fear of default, and has dropped the value of most EU bonds, as well as our own, making borrowing more expensive for other EU states.

3. Therefore the EU would like us to sign up for their money now - even if we don't use it - so that they can all borrow more cheaply in the meantime.

4. Loans from the EU will not be as cheap as the IMF, but the IMF likes to slash 20% off everything - staff, wages, projects, benefits. The EU wants to keep the lid on, and control things so that we and our children pay them back over the next 50 years.

It all gets back to the same thing, whatever your politics - we could not afford to save the banks in 2008, and we still can't in 2011. The govt has walked us all into a noose.

by children_of_lir Mon Nov 15, 2010 13:03

Great summation of our conflagration. We should follow Iceland's lead.

It's about keeping people in debt forever.

by children_of_lir Tue Nov 16, 2010 03:25

The conservative Independent's front page headline is saying: "We Are On The Brink."

The Guardian is saying to take EU bailout or trigger crisis in other Eurozone countries.

The Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704327704...one_0

"European officials were privately prodding Dublin to put aside national pride and act quickly on a bailout in the hope that doing so will preempt a repeat of the months-long ordeal earlier this year that pushed Greece to the brink of bankruptcy and nearly undid the euro. German and French officials insist the decision to apply for a bailout is Ireland's alone, a sign that Europe's larger governments don't want to appear to be twisting the arm of a smaller member state."

It's all very well Cowen trying to ride out the budget by saying there is enough money in the state's coffers until early 2011, however the banks are guaranteed by the Government.

I anticipate Cowen to accept the EU deal today.

by children_of_lir Tue Nov 16, 2010 04:17

I can only think of Hamlet's dilemma.

Indy's article "Ireland on the brink"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dont-pan....html

With interesting comments:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ireland-....html

by children_of_lir Tue Nov 16, 2010 09:57

FF are in Brussels today discussing bailout process:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/eu-backs-lenih....html

International media today are telling it how it really is without rosy coloured spectacles/filters of the truth.

by children_of_lir Thu Nov 18, 2010 13:17

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1118/1...a=rel

"There is the shame of it all. Having obtained our political independence from Britain to be the masters of our own affairs, we have now surrendered our sovereignty to the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund. Their representatives ride into Merrion Street today."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1118/1....html

A coalition is a good way forward.

by children_of_lir Fri Nov 19, 2010 05:08

Cowen should address the Irish nation tonight. There is panic. People are making a run on the banks - removing their bank deposits. The Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks are due to put out their third-quarter results today.

Cowen has to stop doing an Orwellian 1984 doublespeak (e.g. on the bail-out ) and be honest with the Irish people (tell it how it is). The longer Cowen waits, the worse it will get.

It's his job. This all happened under his watch.

by children_of_lir Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:34

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1119/....html

"Taoiseach Brian Cowen denied that the rescue plan would lead to a loss of Irish sovereignty. He also dismissed suggestions of failure. “I don’t believe there’s any reason for Irish people to be ashamed and humiliated,” he said."

It's Cowen's own shame and humiliation.

Labour Eamon Gilmore calls on Cowen to resign:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/calls-for-taois....html

""Only a general election and a new government can now save the country." "

I don't believe this will help. Although, I firmly believe that the buck stops with Cowen and he should have resigned months ago.

by children_of_lir Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:52

It reminds me of Princess Di's death. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth was silent when the people were in disbelief, shock and grieving the sudden loss of their popular Princess.

If Cowen has any dignity, he should step aside now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blo...p=239

"Historian Diarmuid Ferriter articulates what a lot of people think and asks why the taoiseach hasn't taken five minutes to go on TV and address the nation. He wouldn't change our finances, but it would, he says "give an indication that the government thinking of them [voters] as well".

"I think it's devastating genuinely. I know we can talk about the loss of sovereignty, but this is the culmination of two years of complete lack of direction of leadership and it's terrible to think that if it had been approached with these qualities we might not have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into this [rescue].
Why is there no coherent state of the nation speech?

"And it is not extraordinary that, given the scale of the crisis, that we still have not had a coherent statement from the government to the citizens to tell us what is going on.

"It would not make a difference in material terms but it would sooth peoples nerves and give an indication that the government is thinking of them as well."

by me Fri Nov 19, 2010 13:45

"If Cowen has any dignity, . . ."

There's yer problem, right there!

Cowen is an Irish Politician and, as has been repeatedly demonstrated over the past decade, the Irish Political Class has absolutely no dignity worth speaking of.

Despite all the evidence of corruption, backhanders, bad decisions, etc as far as I can remember not so much as ONE Irish Politician has ever accepted responsibility for anything. Even when faced with a mountain of incontrovertible evidence proving it to be so, with the exception of Trevor Seargent, not one of them has ever so much as considered saying "You're right, I'm a inept/corrupt narcissistic shithead, my handling of that situation was risible, I will resign"

by children_of_lir Sun Nov 21, 2010 04:34

A total roasting of FF. The Observer's editorial heading: l ‘ireland has been betrayed by its leaders'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/21/ire...-euro

"... Ireland needs social and political renewal as much as it needs economic recovery.

That cannot happen under the current government. Fianna Fáil and Brian Cowen have no authority left. Their task now is to oversee the technical agreement of the European rescue to the satisfaction of international creditors and then, with some stability restored, call an election."

One commentator to the article called jordif makes a harsh judgment on the Irish people:

"I, like most Europeans, don't feel sorry for a country that for years stole business from other countries with such unsustainibly low tax rate, or for a population that sought to become rich not through hard work and increased skills but through gambling in an unsustainable housing market."

It's bad enough that it is has come to this without having our noses rubbed in it that we have only ourselves to blame.

The majority did stand idle and turn the other cheek while our social medicine was eroded, unemployment and migration levels rose, human rights were discounted for our most vulnerable locked away and warehoused in Victorian mental health institutions ... Nobody cared about the humans rights of the vulnerable. It was us, us and us. Smugly we wanted to believe that we are all right Jack.

On reflection, the country's bankruptcy is holding a mirror to who we are. We need to smash that mirror and change the way we live and think.

We have paid a heavy price for short term monetary greed. We did keep the bad politicians in power - Cowen, "Bloody" Mary Harney and others of their ilk.

The obsene FAS excesses (politicians' junkets for the like of "Bloody" Mary) was the writing on the wall. What was the final bill for that Florida trip? We continued to do nothing as social medicine cutbacks causied 'all clear' cancer misdiagnoses, hospital closures ...

IndyMedia stands out as a lone vital online press to get the facts out to the sleeping population. The mainstream media did not do enough - too little, too late.

by children_of_lir Sun Nov 21, 2010 06:08

With the call for a national strike, we need to be better than our politicians in how we handle ourselves.

We have to learn from what's happened to the country. We are bankrupt because we allowed unchecked individual hubris in the absence of common sense, with the emphasis on common (good).

Anarchists should take note that some sense of common good and how we reach it is a necessary part of any solution.

The mirror isn't wrong. We are morally and financially bankrupt. Each of us can learn from all of this.

by cheeba Sun Nov 21, 2010 21:50

Worth revisiting and passing on?
first released on Secret Records, vinyl 12" from the
Back in the System ep 1999
featuring
Luke Kelly [1949-1984] musician, activist.
music written and produced by Illdependents

MP3:
http://soundcloud.com/illdependents/for-what-died

YOUTUBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQMRpSX8YTA

by LoLWut? Mon Nov 22, 2010 22:25

Democracy!!!! - great ain't it?

here are the People that Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen are really working for

by haha Mon Nov 22, 2010 22:28

The companies Goldman Sachs and Rothschild are paid by the Irish government to advise on the bank bailout etc - now we discover both companies are also bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank. So, we have the bondholders also acting as advisors to the State on how to deal with the bondholders and the bank bailouts. Anyone else notice anything wrong with that?

by Burning down the house Mon Nov 22, 2010 23:41

Associated Press - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_irel...uZw--

Ireland's Finance Minister Brian Lenihan refused to give a precise figure on the fund, saying only that it would reach tens of billions of euros. He denied the figure would top euro100 billion ($136.7 billion), as some had speculated.

"I will be recommending to the government that we should apply for this program," a somber Lenihan told Irish state broadcaster RTE.

The Irish cabinet is expected to sign off on the request later Sunday.

Experts from the EU, the ECB and the IMF in recent days have been digging through the books of Ireland's biggest banks to find out whether the government would have to pump in more than the euro50 billion it has already budgeted for the bailout.

Ireland is running a deficit of euro19 billion ($26 billion), which Lenihan said could not be financed at current market rates. Lenihan said the money would help Ireland pay its bills and provide a contingency fund to back up the banks, which have been hemorrhaging cash since the country's real estate boom crashed in 2008.

The interest rate on Ireland's 10-year bonds surged to above 8 percent in recent weeks, after the government again had to revise up the final cost of the bank bailout and economists raised doubts that the Irish economy could grow fast enough to pay off the debt.

"Clearly we want to borrow for much less than that," Lenihan said Sunday.

Although the government has insisted that it has enough cash on hand until the middle of 2011, analysts are concerned that the discovery of further holes in the banks' balance sheet could suddenly drive up costs.

Market jitters had also begun to spread, raising borrowing costs for Ireland and Spain and weighing on the value of the euro.

I hope this Traitor dies screaming,

by Burning Down the House Mon Nov 22, 2010 23:50

Bondholders Should Foot Entire Bill

Trichet is pissed about common sense statement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel about who should foot the bill. Actually, Merkel did not go far enough. When you make stupid loans you pay the price. Or at least you should.

But no! Trichet as well as the Irish Prime Minister seem to think that Irish taxpayers should bail out the Irish banks (which is in reality a bailout of German, and UK banks that made piss poor loans to Ireland).

Why the average Irish citizen should have to bail out foreign bondholders is beyond me, but I do note that the same happened in the US with taxpayers footing an enormous bill for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG.

No matter what stupid thing banks do, prime ministers and presidents are all too willing to make the average taxpayer foot the bill for the mess. That by the way,is one reason why we get into these messes in the first place.

For a full text of the actual bailout agreement, please see Government statement on request for support. I must say it is pretty boring lacking in details.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/11/iris...k.net

Why are these two traitors not yet cowering at home, in fear of the wrath of 'de peepil'??

by Eric Tue Nov 23, 2010 00:05

You should be aware that there is a French-based European movement that is gaining considerable strength that calls for massive, coordinated bank withdrawals across the continent on December 7. It's an attempt at a modern, crowd-sourced bank run.

In France the last few weeks has been enough protest. Since demonstrating in the street have brought us nothing we understand that the real power lies in the hands of international banks and corporations.

All citizens of the country resolve your accounts in cash. The activists suggest, one can first put the money in a suitcase or invest it in a social bank.

It'll soon be worthless anyway since it is merely paper, whose value is based on absolutely nothing at all, except the mistaken belief that it has any value other than decorative - people are soon going to find that out the hard way

Caption: Video Id: -Uop5R7E314 Type: Youtube Video
King Cantona says "Kill the Banks"