Reaons to hate Sinn Fein- add your reasons

by Ray Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:08

This sort of behaviour is a great way of ensuring that legitimate political criticisms of SF (and there are many) are passed over and ignored.

by not news dude - we had this w swp a couple weeks ago. Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:13

Also it would benefit those in Anti-Capitalist struggles to realise that The Northern Civil Rights Movement first and Sinn Fein Second were at the shitty end of the stick of Technologies of Political Control which were developed and tested firstly in Algeria by the french and secondly by the British in the six counties.

Thje government and media here fitted in with the UK in a policy of demonisation and criminalisation against republicans which was so effective here in the south that people who know little of the history of Northern Ireland still start foaming at the mouth at the very sight of the word 'Sinn Fein'.

Myself has no gra for sinn fein and their present politics but they do have an interesting past and an unbelievable insight into civil struggle and the machinations of power.

Personally my pet hate is Daithi O'Duailinn's line at the recent Glass Bottle workers protest. "We're with you 120%". That and his line in suits.

To get an idea of what they survived and what that has in common with the anti-capitalist movement check this link out:

http://confidenz-depesche.com/download/stoa-atpc-so.html

It is a european Parliament report from a couple of years ago about strategies employed by states to control dissident sections of their populations. NI was the world epicentre of the use of Tear Gas Watercammon bugging etc etc etc. A testing ground and a sinister kind of laboratory.v

by ??? Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:15

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
get a life SF hater

by Finghin - Socialist Youth Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:20

Did you hear what Dáithí Doolan said on the IGB demo? He said that the workers should support the SIPTU bureacracy fully! and that the bureacrats were basically the best thing since sliced bread!

And we are meant to believe that SF are revolutionaries or socialists? If SF were genuine in their 'revolutionary' image they would be calling for the nationalisation of the Bottle Company under workers control. Not simply setting the workers aspirations to a half decent redundency package

by Finghin - Socialist Youth Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:40

Will any Sinn Féin supporters come onto this site and defend their parties 'revolutionary politics'?

I don't think they will and if they do their arguments will not hold water.

by more direct action is called for Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:40

take it back !!

by SF hater Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:58

Sinn Fein get support from the lumpen elements of the working class. Their simplistic nationalism acctracts lumpen support. The most you will get from a Shinner is a parroted regurgitation of Gerry Adams line or you will be called "Loyalist West Brit scum."

by how did SF get so of track? Fri Aug 09, 2002 16:58

how did SF get so of track? how bout changing its direction

by Samuel Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:10

Off track? when were they ever on the tracks?

by when they threw the brits out Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:15

when they threw the brits out

by Samuel Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:17

They were right wing bastards then. Remember 'Labour must wait'?

by 111 Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:24

what do you mean 'Labour must wait'?

by ??? Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:33

This leadership was trusted. The development of their peace strategy was an advance from the Armalite etc strategy. It was strongly driven by their support base in the USA. The swing to the left of the early eighties was slowed, a distancing began with anti-imperialist movements worldwide, the suits came in and the advisers multiplied. Now they were appealing to the emergent nationalist middle classes within the north and they began to occupy the ground that the SDLP had once walked on. That is because they represent bourgeois Ireland. That is why they can occupy seats in a capitalist Government and introduce privatisation schemes into the educational system. Of course they will oppose corrupt practices and use radical phrases but their whole function now as a political organisation is to make Ireland a more effective and efficient place for international capital to invest in. That is the importance of the USA connections.

by ?? Fri Aug 09, 2002 17:40

if this is where they turned to get power I see what you are saying but where else can power be found to keep the oppressors out?

by Afraid to say Fri Aug 09, 2002 21:29

The reason I hate Sinn Féin is a woman lying on the street screaming and screaming and screaming from the unimaginable pain of having her leg and upper arm ripped from her body by the blast of an IRA semtex bomb.

I hate them as well because of a young kid from a bad family lying screaming and screaming and screaming in a gutter with his kneecap shattered by a bullet.

And I hate them because of a teenager who never knew their father because some thug deemed him as 'working for the enemy' when all he wanted to do was make a living for his family.

Most of all I hate them because they took the decency and purity and idealism of the idea of Ireland and soaked it in the blood and guts and screaming pain and misery of the bombs and guns of the IRA.

That's why I hate them.

But if they stop, and work for peace (which they seem to be doing, to be fair), and if they are considerate of the views of peaceful, democratic unionists, and if they work to bring out the best in Irish people instead of the worst, then I'll forgive them.

I haven't made my mind up yet.

by chopper - real people Sat Aug 10, 2002 01:18

SF flag thiefs

by Shelta Sat Aug 10, 2002 05:05

Foolish middle-class, phony 'radicals' hate Sinn Fein because S.F. has attracted solid, working class support. S.F., and the republcan movement is one of the oldest revolutionary movements in the world. Because S.F. is rooted in this historic struggle for the self-determination of the Irish disposessed, its tenets and its principles and its politics are necessarily antithetical to the interests of Irish property owners. The sons and daughters of this Irish gombeen class have the privelege, based on their exploitation, of going to college, where they absorb the pseudo-socialism of the academy. Knowing that the republican movement are the only true socialists in Ireland, the sons and daughters of the gombeen class, are therefore (green) with envy. And when the republican movement takes power their life of privelege will end. That is why these jackasses hate Ireland's revolutionary movement-the republican movement.

by me Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:14

If SF are true revoltionaries why are they implementing right-wing Blairite policies of privatisation, cut-backs, closing hospitals, low pay etc. in the Assembly?

by Iron (y Wo) man Sat Aug 10, 2002 22:16

1) Because they stood up to British imperialism
2) Because they defended and defend vulnerable catholic communities from hate driven loyalist pogroms. (Sponsored by British Intelligence services)
3) Because they stood up for Moore Streets traders and Dublin’s drug ravaged communities, during the eighties, long before it was trendy.
4) Because, as a result of the latter, they have been the only truly working class part in the country.
5) Because they don’t spend all of the time talking about “objective conditions” and “correct analysis". But instead, whether intentionally or not, employ the other major tenet of Marxist doctrine, (all together now children) PRACTICE. That is, getting of your ass and actually doing something.
6) They're not the IRSP, who managed to make it on the least in spite of the fact that they are flooding Fatima Mansions and other places with heroine, funny that..

Oops, I appear to have misunderstood the question. Let’s just say that republicanism, as an ideology, is a product of the late eighteenth century radical bourgeoisie. Therefore, it can never really address the concerns of the Irish working class, at present the class character of S.F. has changed, changed utterly, but alas not into a terrible beauty but rather a grotesque parody of a revolutionary party. S.F.’s present tactics deserve criticism, their future tactics will undoubtedly deserve it even more so, logical progress and all that. However, there is not one group in Ireland that can point to a history more in the revolutionary and working class tradition than that of the shiners. That’s all I have to say, I’m off now to estimate how much muck can a muck duck suck, that is provided a muck duck can suck muck…

by Cillian Gillespie - Socialist Youth Sun Aug 11, 2002 17:22 cilliangillespie at hotmail dot com

It is incorrect to characterise Sinn Fein as being a party of the working class. First of all they have they have no serious orientation towards the official labour movement. Despite the ample resources at their disposal they have done nothing to try and launch a campaign against social partnership. While they may support relatively small disputes such as the IGB and the ALDI strike, when it comes to crucial strikes they will remain silent.

For example during the teachers strike when there was a massive backlash against ASTI by the right wing media and establishment Caoimhin O'Comhlain did not use his position to argue that the 30% pay claim of the teachers was justified. He simply put forward the postion that the government should talk to ASTI. The only T.D who did this was Joe Higgins. Sinn Fein's silence on this dispute is not a coincidence. They have made some powerful friends inside the southern establishment and don't want to jeopardise this friendship.

As for the myth that Sinn Fein are active in working class communities. This is merely a deception, they simply leaflet areas en masse about a particular issue and say they are fighting on it. For example in the election they claimed that they were the only ones fighting against the bin tax in areas such as Dublin south in their material. However when members of the socialist party approached SF in this area to work with us in fighting on this issue they simply ignored us and basically were not bothered.

Their record in the Stormont executive shows the real nature of Sinn Fein where they are implementing Blairite/Thatcherite policies such as the privatisation of schools and hospitals. They will justify this on the grounds that working inside the executive and implementing policies will lead to a united Ireland and then they will fight for the socialist republic! This is more like the three stages theory rather than the two.

As regards the armed struggle we in the Socialist Party and the forerunners of our organisation have consistently pointed that the futile and counterproductive nature of individual terroism. It allows the state to be strenghtened by bringing in repressive legislation and also in the case of north would divide the working class further along sectarian lines because of the sectarian nature of some the actions of the IRA. The only manner in which the national question can be resolved as we have consistently pointed out is through the the unity of the working class in the north and south in order to overthrow these two rotten capitalist states and the establishment of a socialist Ireland. This would be part of a free and equal socialist federation of Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales as a step towards a socialist Europe. Not by the false methods of individual terroism or by making deals with the southern, American and British establishments.

The Socialist Party is a Trotskyist organisation. However this does not mean has Sinn Fein seems to believe that we are a middle class sect. We are an organisation with a base in the trade unions and working class communities. With Socialist Youth we are now building amongst young people who see no way forward under capitalism.

I can understand why many people look to Sinn Fein as being an alternative. However they are no different from of the other pro-capitalist parties that exist on this island. Now more than is a need to build a real alternative for working class people. In the coming period where we will see signifigant struggles of the working class this will be increasingly come on the agenda. The Socialist Party will be in the forefront in building it.

by conor mc gowan - ucd sa Sun Aug 11, 2002 21:22

gerrys armani

by sgt padlock Sun Aug 11, 2002 21:53

i like sein fein cos they really annoy the right wing brit establishment and stuck up irish/brit snobs. sein fein were the only political party to protest at the arrest of irish people caught up in the brutal genoa italian pig gestapo mussolini raid of the genoa protestors hq. anything that annoys snobs and the establishment cant be bad. i also like the irsp, socialist party, swp, pup, iplo and anarchists. they are all working class and i really like all republican paramilitaries and community workers. i hate property developers and money grabbing snobby slum lords and the psnipigs/gardai/any capitalist army and that cunt basil mcivor and his disgraced weedy pasty faced wimpy racist son johnathan mcivor who bungled the met investigation into the racist murder of stephen lawrence.

by Brian Bjurn Sun Aug 11, 2002 23:33

Throughout the more than 200 year history of the republican movements revolutionary struggle the vast bulk of its membership and most of its leadership has come from the oppressed, the people of no property. Hate is closely related to fear. Most ideas in Ireland about socialism and the labour movement come from Britain. This is an example of how minds are colonized by centuries of propaganda and imperial domination. Compiling a list is a clear sign of stupidity. But the fear behind the hate is real, for the movement of Frank Ryan and Peadar O'Donnell is going from strength to strength, so let the haters tremble-their days are numbered, as is the reactionary backwardness that motivates their hatred.

by Des Sun Aug 11, 2002 23:46

To state that SF was the only political party to protest about the events in Genoa is simply untrue. To attempt to utilise the memory of progressive people like Frank Ryan and Peader O'Donnell to excuse the rightward drift of SF is disgusting. I don't believe that the people who died on hunger strike or lost their lives in a war against a modern european army did so in order that Martin McGuinnes and Bairbe de Brun could privatise schools and close hospitals while at the same time collect large salaries and expenses.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:37 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com 086 366 7694

Some-one asked earlier if anyone from Sinn Féin would come onto Indymedia and ‘defend’ ourselves from the arguments put forward. Frankly, I’ve always thought the Left would be better off attacking the right in this country than each other but I’m game for a laugh at the best of times.

>It is incorrect to characterise Sinn Fein as being a party of the working class. First of all they have they have >no serious orientation towards the official labour movement. Despite the ample resources at their disposal >they have done nothing to try and launch a campaign against social partnership. While they may support >relatively small disputes such as the IGB and the ALDI strike, when it comes to crucial strikes they will >remain silent.

Many people on Indymedia, for all their vaunted claims to believe in an alternative media, are too willing to accept the word of the establishment media regarding issues about Sinn Féin. For the record, we are not the richest party in Ireland. Expenditure in Election 2002 was fourth, behind Labour, FF and FG. (Being the furth biggest party in the 26, this makes a kind of sense) Our resources are limited. We have more resources than any of the other parties or organisations that habitually use Indymedia but this does not translate into either unlimited resources or enough to do whatever we want. I agree with the poster that Sinn Féin does not have the place or has not played the role in the Trade Union movement that it should have. This is widely understood and accepted within the party and for the umpteenth time, efforts are being made to change this. How successful they will be I don’t know, the radical vote in the Unions is already influences greatly by other parties. As for strike action, I can’t remember the last strike Sinn Féin did not support, whether it was the ASTI strike or the Nurses. Have we done enough on the Trade Union issue? No, we haven’t, we don’t claim to have done so. But we recognise our weaknesses and try to do something about it.

I’ve rarely seen a member of the Socialist Party attending anti-sectarian demonstrations in Dublin. I don’t leap to the conclusion that the Socialist Party is full of bigots, merely that no party can prioritise everything with limited resources and perhaps this is something they could not.

>For example during the teachers strike when
there was a massive backlash against ASTI by the right wing >media and establishment Caoimhin O'Comhlain did not use his position to argue that the 30% pay claim of >the teachers was justified.

Sinn Féin stated several times that the ASTI pay demand was justified.

>only T.D who did this was Joe Higgins.
And fair play to him.

>Sinn Fein's silence on this dispute is not a coincidence. They have made some powerful friends inside the >southern establishment and don't want to jeopardise this friendship.

Who are these people? I often read about them on Indymedia so clearly, they exist, but I haven’t met them yet. I’ve met many of our enemies in the southern establishment, but I’m still looking for our ‘friends’.

>As for the myth that Sinn Fein are active in working class communities. This is merely a deception, they >simply leaflet areas en masse about a particular issue and say they are fighting on it. For example in the >election they claimed that they were the only ones fighting against the bin tax in areas such as Dublin south >in their material. However when members of the socialist party approached SF in this area to work with us >in fighting on this issue they simply ignored us and basically were not bothered.

We are extremely active in working class areas across Dublin. We’re a working class party with an overwhelmingly working class membership. Not just on the Bin Tax but on other issues such as joyriding, drugs etc. we have played a key role and, much like I am sure Socialist Party canvassers were told in Dublin North and Dublin West that they were the only people who did anything in the area, we got the same in working class areas of Dublin Central, North West, South West, South East, South Central etc.

Now the next bit is a wee bit personal. I wrote the leaflet in question and had what can only be described as an intensely frank discussion with Lisa Maher about it. We did not claim to be the ‘only ones’ fighting the Bin Tax in Dublin South, I wrote the fucking thing so don’t tell me what it said. But our party has played a key role in the fight against the Bin Tax across the city and I have no doubt that, admittedly as a result of the membership and financial resources we can put into the campaign, we put more work into it than anyone else.

Lastly, simply because we didn’t want to get involved in a broad front campaign with you lot and the SWP does not mean we are not bothered. We just don’t want to work with you. We ran our own campaign against the Bin Tax and we’re very happy with it. We ran our own campaign against the abortion amendment and for divorce. Simply because we do not join Broad Left coalitions does not mean we are not interested in the issues those coalitions might be campaigning on.

>Their record in the Stormont executive shows the real nature of Sinn Fein where they are implementing >Blairite/Thatcherite policies such as the privatisation of schools and hospitals. They will justify this on the >grounds that working inside the executive and implementing policies will lead to a united Ireland and then >they will fight for the socialist republic! This is more like the three stages theory rather than the two.

I’ve responded to this about a thousand times on Indymedia, pointing out the difference between a government with tax raising powers and an enforced coalition government with reactionaries bereft of tax raising powers. I have repeatedly asked for people to suggest other options and I am repeatedly told that the other option is to withdraw from the Executive, collapse the Assembly and lead a campaign against PFI. And I repeatedly wonder whether some people on Indymedia actually live in the real world.

>As regards the armed struggle we in the Socialist Party and the forerunners of our organisation have >consistently pointed that the futile and counterproductive nature of individual terroism.

Indeed. More than tyranny, the Socialist Party seems to fear revolution. Look, we’re not going to agree on this issue. You see the last thirty years as a squalid sectarian murder campaign by a right wing nationalist-Catholic militia bent on pushing Protestants into the sea. I see the last thirty years as a revolutionary armed struggle waged by an army with overwhelming support in working class nationalist areas against Establishment and reactionary forces who used class and religion to prevent military success. And I can’t believe you people are still talking that Federation of the British Isles. One of your people told me yese didn’t take that seriously anymore.

>The Socialist Party is a Trotskyist organisation. However this does not mean has Sinn Fein seems to >believe that we are a middle class sect. We are an organisation with a base in the trade unions and working >class communities. With Socialist Youth we are now building amongst young people who see no way >forward under capitalism.

To be honest, this was the paragraph that made me want to write on this subject. I get this sometimes from SWP members who ask me ‘What is Sinn Féin’s policy these days to the SWP?’ To be honest, I’m too polite typically to say we don’t have one and see no need to develop one. With the Socialist Party, there is a great deal of respect within Sinn Féin for Joe Higgins and there is certainly a recognition of the work the Socialist Party does, has done, and will continue to do. But we don’t get obsessive about it. The Socialist Party, the SWP, various other groups, spend a LOT more time thinking about us than we do thinking about them. It’s rare that I buy Voice or the Socialist Worker/Resistance without reading a couple of articles (Occasionally, very occasionally, justifiably) attacking Sinn Féin on this or that. Off-hand the only article in the republican press I can remember attacking your lot was in the second issue of Spark. Most of the time we’re not particularly interested, perhaps one of the reasons yese dislike us so much.

The overwhelming majority of Sinn Féin members don’t think the Socialist party is a middle class sect because the overwhelming majority of Sinn Féin members have better things to be doing than bitching about other parties. Lists like the 20 reasons to hate Sinn Féin don’t really bother us all that much, neither do a huge amount of the charges made in this debate. I’m not saying we’re perfect (We’re not), nor that we don’t have a lot to learn (We do) and I admit that some of what we have to learn we can best learn from people outside of Sinn Féin who have a critical eye on us. But frankly, when I read nonsense about being the richest party in Ireland, when I read lies about the huge salaries our Assembly members in the North get (Like our TDs and indeed your own Joe Higgins our elected members pay their wages back to the party) it makes it harder to plough through the ill-informed nonsense to find the good arguments.

In short, Sinn Féin is ripe for criticism. I think our party’s stance on abortion for example is incorrect and welcome debate on the issue, but off-the-wall criticism, criticism based on lies spread either by the establishment or political rivals or motivated simply by jealousy, demeans the arguments that can and should be put forward criticising Sinn Féin.

Right, sin é.

by Revolutionary Socialist - IRSP Mon Aug 12, 2002 15:43 redclydeside at ev1 dot net

A potential reason to distrust SF, aside from them giving weak lip service to working class (when they're not courting international capital!), is their nasty habit, when under political fire themselves, of pointing to irps (when they actually acknowledge their existence!) and accusing the irps of drugs dealing. Anyone living in Fatima knows the score, and knows the SF propaganda of irp drug dealing is the blackest of black propaganda. Stop repeating Brit and "Free State" lies. No need for it.

by babsdebrawl Mon Aug 12, 2002 21:58

there is no trouble or conflict between the irsp and sein fein in east belfast, working class people there support both the IRA and the INLA. lets be honest THE BIGGEST HARD DRUG/HEROIN DEALERS IN THIS CUNTRY ARE THE BRIT/IRISH state. FRU/special branch and MI5/MI6 actively protected and ran hard drug heroin dealers in Ballymena and belfast. One such person was also a heroin dealer in Brixton in the late 1980s, she was never ever busted, and joked that the brixton police supplied her with her heroin, only it wasn't a joke, her and her scottish boyfriend appeared in belfast in the early 90s and continued heroin pushing unchallenged, getting more and more working class people hooked, the woman was even training to be a probation officer and was given clearance to work at youth clubs in north belfast, it is no coincidence that there are many more heroin addicts in north belfast now after this ladies special brand of youth work. this woman continues to sell heroin and her boyfriend has recently got out of prison despite being arrested for importing large amounts of heroin into belfast from scotland. Why does the brit/irish state clamp down on soft drugs yet ignore the REAL DANGER to the working class youth HEROIN. the reason is simple, heroin passifies and destablises whole communities, when someone is a heroin addict they are not interested in fighting the state or class war, the only thing they are interested in is getting their next fix. so when our working class youth are preoccupied with their struggle for the next fix, big buisness, capitalists, the establishment and the authorities can do what the fuck they want unchallenged.

by D O hEochai - Socialist Party Mon Aug 12, 2002 23:54

“Sinn Féin. For the record, we are not the richest party in Ireland. Expenditure in Election 2002 was fourth, behind Labour, FF and FG. (Being the furth biggest party in the 26, this makes a kind of sense)”

The argument about funding is far more substantial than that. Sinn Fein receive significant funds from wealthy American businessmen. Inevitably he who pays the piper calls the tune. At the very same time Joe Higgins was in Brazil at the World Social Forum some months ago, Gerry Adams was in the White House rubbing shoulders with the leaders of US Imperialism!!!!! (those great defenders of the working class)

“I agree with the poster that Sinn Féin does not have the place or has not played the role in the Trade Union movement that it should have. This is widely understood and accepted within the party and for the umpteenth time, efforts are being made to change this. How successful they will be I don’t know, the radical vote in the Unions is already influences greatly by other parties.”

Despite the protestations above, the role of members of Sinn Fein within the Trade Union movement is indistinguishable from the right- wing TU leaders and will continue to be so. Despite the fact that Sinn Fein might give verbal support to this strike or that, does not change the fundemental approach Sinn Fein has to TU’s. An example, I am a member of the Communications Workers Union and a Sinn Fein General Election Candidate in Dublin is a Former member of the Executive of my Union. While on the Executive has supported the privitasition of Eircom and then proceeded to take a pay-off and leave the company. Any worker will spot a Socialist Party activist within their TU branch. There are 3 Sinn Fein members (that I know of) within my union branch and they either play no role or openly support the bureaucracy within the union.

“I’ve rarely seen a member of the Socialist Party attending anti-sectarian demonstrations in Dublin. I don’t leap to the conclusion that the Socialist Party is full of bigots, merely that no party can prioritise everything with limited resources and perhaps this is something they could not.”

An anti-sectarian march called by a sectarian party (of which ever colour) is not something that you will find the Socialist Party supporting. And rightly so.

“We are extremely active in working class areas across Dublin. We’re a working class party with an overwhelmingly working class membership.”

Being active in working class communities and having an overwhelming working class membership does not make Sinn Fein a working class party. Many other parties from the extreme right to populist parties could make the same declaration. Sinn Fein is a Nationalist Party that occasionally engages in socialist rhetoric (depending on who they are talking to). For Sinn Fein the National Question is paramount and all else is subservient. The end will justify the means even if it means shutting hospitals or privatising schools. The Bin Tax is an example. In order to ensure a Sinn Fein Mayor in Sligo, Sinn Fein supported the Bin Tax in Sligo. Another example is the situation where Pat Doherty MP opposes the proposals of Barbrie DeBruin to shut Omagh hospital and keep Enniskillen open while Michelle Gilderhew MP supports her Stormont minister.

The fact that Sinn Fein has such a working class membership will inevitably cause conflict within Sinn Fein in the future. The more class conscious elements will begin to question the role of the leadership and Sinn Fein does not have the sectarian conflict of the North to keep the Southern membership in line.

“Lastly, simply because we didn’t want to get involved in a broad front campaign with you lot and the SWP does not mean we are not bothered. We just don’t want to work with you. We ran our own campaign against the Bin Tax and we’re very happy with it. We ran our own campaign against the abortion amendment and for divorce. “

The reality is that Sinn Fein do not get involved in Broad Campaigns for two reasons. Firstly, Sinn Fein only campaign on issues that will bring electoral benefits and is not really interested in doing the donkey work of actually organising a campaign. Secondly, many working class activists (and I am not talking about political activists) do not want to work with Sinn Fein because of the nationalist sectarian outlook of the party.

“I’ve responded to this about a thousand times on Indymedia, pointing out the difference between a government with tax raising powers and an enforced coalition government with reactionaries bereft of tax raising powers. I have repeatedly asked for people to suggest other options and I am repeatedly told that the other option is to withdraw from the Executive, collapse the Assembly and lead a campaign against PFI.”

The Assembly is a sectarian power body. Sinn Fein engages in and supports the sectarian divide within the Assembly. Sinn Fein would collapse the Assembly if it was advantageous to Sinn Fein. But it would be willing to do that for party political reasons not for the defence of services or working class communities. Sinn Fein wants to be in Coalition in the North and in the South as part of a (mistaken) strategy that it will bring a united Ireland onto the agenda. I do not have any other options for Sinn Fein because Sinn Fein does not have an outlook or strategy capable of bringing working class Catholics and Protestants together to fight for their common interests. I support all actions capable of cutting across the sectarian divide and am of the view that a United Trade Union movement is one of the main platforms to achieving this. Sinn Fein is incapable of playing any role within this because it is firmly in one camp on one side of the sectarian line. What the Assembly does show is Sinn Fein’s willingness to play ball with the establishment when it feels it is in its interest to do so.

“Indeed. More than tyranny, the Socialist Party seems to fear revolution. Look, we’re not going to agree on this issue. You see the last thirty years as a squalid sectarian murder campaign by a right wing nationalist-Catholic militia bent on pushing Protestants into the sea. I see the last thirty years as a revolutionary armed struggle waged by an army with overwhelming support in working class nationalist areas against Establishment and reactionary forces who used class and religion to prevent military success."

To start with it would be a point of debate whether the armed struggle had the overwhelming support of the Catholic working class (during some periods of the Troubles the IRA had relatively little support within Catholic areas), it certainly had absolutely no support among the Protestant working class. But then again Sinn Fein is a Republican Party that is not really concerned with those “reactionary protestant workers” who need to be persuaded by the British Establishment to accept a United Ireland. The Socialist Party & the CWI (unlike other on the left) has consistently held the view over the past 30 years that the campaign of the IRA was counter-productive, would not achieve the aims of the Republican movement, reinforced the sectarian divisions within the two communities, reinforced the State apparatus in the North, in the South and in Britain and cost the lives of many people. Every community that is threatened has the right to defend itself, but not by handing that role over to an unaccountable secret terror group (hardly an army) engaged in a strategy aimed at achieving Nationalist objectives. The objectives of the Socialist Party & the CWI are for an International Socialist Revolution. We do not limit our objectives to what happens on this island. Members of the CWI regularly face tyranny as bad or worse than exists in the North, in countries like Chile, South Africa, Israel/ Palastine, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, and the former republics of the Soviet Union. But we have a common objective and fight for that right around the world.

“In short, Sinn Féin is ripe for criticism.”

Yes it is, and it is because of the crass opportunism of the leadership, the willingness of the leadership to rub shoulders with the elite of US imperialism, the acceptance of Blairite policies in the “enforced coalition with reactionaries bereft of tax raising powers” (one wonders what damage McGuinness and DeBruin would do if they had these powers), its continued engagement in sectarian activity within the North, its willingness to do deals with the establishment in the South to get mayor of this town, or Chairperson of that Council, its objective of achieving a “United Ireland” irrespective of what form it would take and what the result would be for working class people on this island, Catholic, Potestant, Dissenter or Athiest.

by Finghin Kelly - Socialist Party - Dublin South Branch Tue Aug 13, 2002 16:12

You say that SF had to privitise schools and hospitals because stormont does not have tax raising powers. The fact is that SF have a huge base amongst working class people and are one of the largest parties in the Assembly. Why did SF not use this powerfull position to mobilise their supporters to call on proper funding for Stormont? Surely this is the way to tackle the under resourced Stormont executive not privitisations. Also why don't Sf attack the political hacks/hangers-on in Stormont. A recent report showed that the Stormont executive has more political cronies than the Irish government and British government COMBINED! and nearly as many as the white house! Why dont you attack the Stormont gravy train and not ordinary working class people?

On the question of that Dublin South leaflet, I read it and I have a copy of it. It clearly states that SF are the only party in the area to do any work on opposing the bin tax. I read it this is what it says. I am also aware that Deirdre Whelan later aknowledged that this leaflet was wrong and that SF did very little work on the Bin Tax in Dublin South and DLR.

The reality is that you are very inactive in the bin tax campaign, in Dublin South and in the City. Your parties position on the bin tax is oppurtunistic at best. You voted for the tax in Sligo in return for the mayors position. The reason you are not involved in the main campaign against the bin tax (which every other groups is participating in) come from your attitude to the working class. SF do not see the masses as a force for change, you fundamentally distrust the masses. You see yourselves as the 'community' and see peoples only task is to come out and occaisionally vote for Sf and be passive. The attitude is 'leave it to us, we'll sort it out for you'. This is reflected in the ideology of individual terrorism which the IRA have carried out. The IRA saw no role for the masses in organising resistance to British imperialism instead they declared that they were the 'republican government' (that some of our great grand parents voted for), and they would 'liberate' the country. This outlook may be responsible for the cult surrounding Adams and McGuinness.

by Peter Urban - Irish Republican Socialist Party Wed Aug 14, 2002 06:45 irsp at netwiz dot net 4 Cavendish Row, Dublin 1 01 873 56 20

Because I'm tired of Sinn Fein's members and supporters attempting to deflect criticism of themselves by repeating the same lies the bourgeois press spreads about the IRSP and INLA.

When the last INLA volunteer to lose his life did so for his participation in the struggle against heroin traffickers in Dublin, we really don't need to hear their shite about how the IRSP is pumping junk into Fatima Mansions--with heroines, perhaps, with heroin not at all.

As to who is presently defending the nationalist working class community of the six counties from loyalist fascist death squads, it isn't the PIRA but the INLA who the UDA and UVF fear.

And, why do I hate Sinn Fein?

Because they think that they are the republican movement, when in fact that movement is far greater than simply one, two, or five organisations. And, because they can't simply stand on their political line--right, left, or centre--and gather their support from co-thinkers, but have to present themselves as whatever their audience wants to hear. Socialist to the socialists, captialist to their capitalist backers in the US and their native yuppies, feminist to the feminists, and opposed to abortion for the devout Catholics.

They're on their way on the road to oblivion, like Sinn Fein the Workers Party before them, and it couldn't be soon enough.

by Socialist Party hater - Republican Socialist Wed Aug 14, 2002 13:30

And they support the Orange Order marches, and didn't support the rally against sectarianism in Belfast last week. Fucking losers sided with the DUP... even the fucking SWP were on side on that one...no wonder Socialist Party losers have destroyed the Broad Left in NIPSA by refusing to take a principled stand against oppression in Norn Iron....

Wasters-
James Connolly would puke on ye, lads

by Brian Cahill Wed Aug 14, 2002 15:43

1) The "rally against sectarianism" was a sham, pushed by Sinn Fein, one of the sectarian parties. Most people saw through it and it only attracted 2,000 people despite the support of most of the sectarian parties, the employers federation, the media etc.

2) The Socialist Party does not support Orange marches. Orange marches are sectarian rituals. For the last few years sectarians on both sides of the religious divide have been using conflict around them to ramp up sectarian tensions - with great success. Our view is that the working class in the North would be best served by getting the issue off the stage as quickly as possible, through negotiations.

3) The Socialist Party has played a leading role in establishing the broad left in NIPSA and helping it take a majority on the union NEC. The strength of the left in NIPSA, the largest union in the North, has been built on a non-sectarian basis, uniting Protestant and Catholic workers. "Republican Socialist" would evidently prefer to divide the broad left along sectarian lines too.