Michael Collins' Hurley

by pat c Thu Jul 25, 2002 13:56

its boggers!

by Sick of shite Thu Jul 25, 2002 14:28

pat you're a muppet - who gives a shite if Michael Collins hurley is on display??

by pat c Thu Jul 25, 2002 14:46

i take the term muppet as a compliment.

i'm sure some people are interested excrement head.

by King Mob Fri Jul 26, 2002 00:33

Because the only explaination of the shite you come out with is if someones got their hand up your arse right up the elbow and is telling you what to say......

Gu Huh lets go see a lump of ash it'll be uh grand.....

by pat c Fri Jul 26, 2002 13:33

yeah, i know you lot would prefer to see the unveiling of prince charles polo stick.

some of us here aren't ashamed to be irish.

its funny how imc apply their rules about censoring abusive comments isn't it?

by pat c Fri Jul 26, 2002 17:18

lets have a lecture on bonos boxers!

btw its not just unveiling the ash. there will also be a lecture on collins involvement in the gaa & irb during his london years.

i'd say that bit of ash cracked many a skull.

by King Mob Sun Jul 28, 2002 01:42

I'm not enamoured with any relic from any historical figure, be it Queen Victoria's Knickers or Collins lump o wood.

What I do have a problem with the the glorification of the GAA a breeding ground for Ra terrorists, anti Unionist and RUC feelings, a support network for the church and the Gardaí and a loathsome whore sucking cash from people interested in the game, setting up corporate boxes; while pleading poverty, and declaring croke park holy land unless you're Tina FUCKING Turner or the Eagles.

And Pat y'know whats a breeding ground for Fascism, nationalism. The kind of of turdgy "gee I'm proud I'm Irish", has inspired the senitment of "Eine Volk, Eine Reich" That you fucking claim to hate.

Hyprocrite....

Run off to the fucking mods, you small pathetic loathsome little man, and if you can't take it, FUCK OFF.......

KM

-I hate nationalism, it makes my fucking skin crawl-

- Bill Hicks

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 09:42

you really are a loathsome creature. so the gaa is the breeding ground for fascism? and nationalism equals fascism?

did you ever question the reasons why people take up arms against british imperialism? i doubt if you even understand the meaning.

why don't you & your west brit chums go home to britland & become page-boys & ladies in waiting to your queen?

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:34

You do adore twisting the opinions of anyone you argue with........

Nationalism leads to Fascism, not equals. Pay attention. It was the Hitler Youth who gave us all the stormtroopers in later years. The GAA has been a breeding ground for terrorist thugs in the north, and hatred and intorelance. Something you claim to hate, yet seem to reveal in....

What word don't you think I understand "Imperalism" "Army" "British"? I do. And I'm not some West Brit fuck. You do like taring anyone who argues with you with wide brush strokes. Am I proud to be Irish? I'll revert to Mr Hicks again "Am I Proud to be American, god well my parents fucked here, so gee yes I'm proud".

The majority of the worlds problems will be better solved when we stop worrying and fretting about "national idenity", or "race" or "religion" and we start looking at each other as people.

See as a member of a group who claims to be againist Fascism, or Rascism, you should be thinking that way, instead you're swarming around looking for people to hate, and fight.

But reading the way you think I think thats the least of your problems Pat you're just looking for someone to hate.

So go away, find a nice hole to die in, the next generation have bigger problems to deal with, and couldn't give a fuck about some lump of wood.

KM

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:27

you are a perfect example of a post-colonial forelock tugging peasant.

you are incapable of differentiating between progressive republicanism and narrow nationalism.

however to suggest even that nationalism or involvement in the gaa leads to fascism shows that you have the socio-political comphrehension of a child. it is quite obvious that your IQ matches your age.

whats really your problem? what are you really about?

are you suggesting that the world would be a better place if the kenyan, zambian, yemenese, indian, malayan, burmese, belizian, jamacan, ghanan, nigeria, sudanese, egyptian, irish, etc etc nationalists had not asserted their independance and had stayed as part of the british empire?

should the subject peoples of the french, belgian & dutch empires have eschewed any aspirations to self determination in the hope that their benevolent m,asters might throw them a few crumbs?

you have no idea of what imperialism is about.

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 13:26

It is actually staggering how regularly you don't listen to what people are saying to you.

You accuse IMC of censoring debate, and having a biased editorial policy. Aidan then asks you give examples of this, and you go off at him at ponficating and refusing to "respect anothers opinion". Missing his points.

Aunty Party (nice to see you back) then points out that you're being hyprocritical, and you feed their argument by then ponificating about Fascism.

You never listen and use every argument as a chance to loudly scream your viewpoint and ignore the argument thats being presented to you.

To tell me that there is no historical relationship between Nationalism and Fascism is actually priceless. I mean genuinely hysterical. You have no understanding of the background, methodology and tactics of Fascism in history. How the Third Reich glorified the idea of the German people and German history to suit their goals and idealogy.

Fascism and Nationalism, look at the BNF, and it's talk of Anglo Saxon, the purity of it's heritage. Or Aine and her co horts manipulating Irish heritage claiming they're protecting it from invaders. Fascism and Nationalism are as intertwined as the reeds that gives us the name fascism. Cultural pride has always been a way for them to garner recruits. And the GAA has been a breeding ground for a bunch of fascist thugs the Provos. Spare me your defense of them, anyone who has destroyed as many live, and hurt as many people and used terror to keep it's "own people" "onside" are Fascists.

Now onto your claim that I support the British Empire. Wow, I mean where do you get this from, are you delusional do you have psychotic flashs that cause you to hallunicate? Because I never said that.

Of the list of countries you've give me, 5 are under or have been under the heel of corrupt miltary dicatorship exploiting people just as badly as the Bristish Empire ever did. Three have serious religious intolerance problems. One his enganging in nuclear sabre rattling while it's people starve. Another has rife corruption and drug industry is the only way it's people can afford to live. And then we have Ireland, were people are still being exploited by the wealthy in a manner that would make the landlords proud.

But hey at least we're not singing "Rule Britannia" aren't we. No I'm not a West Brit apologist, but the facts speak for themselves. Plus ca change; the more things change the more they same the same. People have just changed rulers, and the fact that their skin colour is the same as the people they're exploiting seems to make it okay for you; but not for me.

Imperialism, be it Cultural, Corporate or the British empire is wrong. And many of these countries use their national idenity (or "nationalism" for the hard of thinking) to keep the people in line, Indian needs the big miltary budget to defend Kashmir, money which should be spent on food and housing. Because Kashmir is part of Indian. Fuck National Pride, the world would be a better place if people stopping giving a fuck about which lump of mud was "ours" and started worrying about bigger shit.

The sooner we forget national idenity, national pride, and all the other crap you hold dear, and start worrying about people, the better this planet is going to be.

Your idealogy, way of thinking, and "national pride" are stumbling blocks to this.

Go away little man, your time is up.

KM

by Aunty Party Mon Jul 29, 2002 13:59

King Mob wrote "What I do have a problem with the the glorification of the GAA a breeding ground for Ra terrorists, anti Unionist and RUC feelings, a support network for the church and the Gardaí". Do I take it King Mob that you support that most brutal of all police forces - the PSNI/RUC? Bear in mind all police forces have the same policy to repress the ordinary working class people and the poor and to protect property and the capitalist status quo. Then you rightly have a go at another bunch of almost equally brutal baton wielding thugs in blue uniforms the Garda. Talk about being hypocritical (not spelt hyprocritical King Mob learn to spell).

by poo-head Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:30

micky collins was a gomey mong.

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:32

it is you who are being racist. so some countries which won independance from the brits are under corrupt regimes? gee so i guess those pesky natives would be better off under the crown & your queen.

you are a fool , a child & a pro imperialist who by his own admission supports the ruc & unionism. i think that qualigfies you as being a west brit.

i am proud to be an anti fascist, a republican and a socialist.

you are nothing but a raving half mad, anti-social and pro-imperial apologist.

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:33

Caught me on me spelling,

I'll use Pat's excuse of "I was really angry" when I wrote that.

A better way of putting it would be the GAA have helped breed a generation of thugs, a festering place whether nationalist sentiment has bloom, and turned to hatred, and been used againist another community in the north. It's feeding a vicious cycle of hate, and tit for tat kills.

I won't justify violence againist anyone. But the RUC aren't going to win my sympathy. Sorry bad choice of words, to express my sentiment. Can you ever forgive me?

But Aunty c'mon "the most brutal of all police forces"? If you're complying a top ten of the worlds most savage thugs in uniform, the RUC would have trouble making it into the top ten.

Brazilian death squads?

The SA?

Columbian terror Police?

The NKVD?

Saddams anti Kurdish Police units?

Israeli Internal security?

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:40

btw, isn't it funny the way this started from me posting a notice about a lecture on michael collins & the unveiling of his hurley?

collins may be 80 yrs dead, but the ruc & unionist supporters on this site obviously still fear him.

is it because he arraanged the assassination of sir henry wilson cigs (who was responsible for the deaths of millions of working class people during WW1)?

or that collins sent guns to the ira in the north to protect catholics from pogroms perpetuated by kingmobs beloved unionists?

or maybe kingmobs greatgrandparents were black & tans or auxies or tommies or ric? engish spies? more likely they were informers.

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:45

God you did it again..........

"it is you who are being racist. so some countries which won independance from the brits are under corrupt regimes? gee so i guess those pesky natives would be better off under the crown & your queen."

All those countries you listened are in midst of turmoil. I never said that they'd be better off. In fact I said

"No I'm not a West Brit apologist, but the facts speak for themselves. Plus ca change; the more things change the more they same the same. People have just changed rulers, and the fact that their skin colour is the same as the people they're exploiting seems to make it okay for you; but not for me."

Or;

" Imperialism, be it Cultural, Corporate or the British empire is wrong. And many of these countries use their national idenity (or "nationalism" for the hard of thinking) to keep the people in line, Indian needs the big miltary budget to defend Kashmir, money which should be spent on food and housing. Because Kashmir is part of Indian. Fuck National Pride, the world would be a better place if people stopping giving a fuck about which lump of mud was "ours" and started worrying about bigger shit."

You snivelling pride at this childish nationalism is the problem. If people stopped worrying about the skin tone, and country of origin of the person oppressing them, and started, g'uh looking at the fact that theres someone oppressing them, then real progress would be made.

The simple fact is when the people you so proudly claim to support, fought their oppresser they just put another one in charge cause the system is repeating itself, it's happened all over the globe.

Stop putting words into my mouth and stop twisting what I'm saying......

You're a dull excuse for a man, and part of the problem. Hurry up and die so us children, can start inheriting the earth and trying to undo the childish mess and pychological fuckups you've burdened us with. Nationalism. Christ you sicken me.

KM

by KM Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:50

My grandfather was in a flying column. And is from the north. You can assume I'm an RUC apologist and unionist if that makes it easier for you to block out the essence of my debate, and the facts I'm presenting.

But unfortunately it's the truth. I'm not anti Irish, or Pro Brit, or Anti Brit, or whatever you think I am Pat. I'm anti Nationalism. Take a look at what I'm saying, actually read it and think about it, and absorb it.

But you're a close minded old fool, who thinks like someone from my grandfathers era, and you bore me, I just hope in a few generations we'll be able to be rid of your way of thinking and start moving forward.

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 14:51

kingmob you have made no rational defence of your position.

i am not a nationalist, i am a republican but to say that nationalism leads inevitably to fascism is the argument of a child.

the logic of your position is that counties do not have a right to self-determination.

you would be well advised to attend summer school. also, when you back to the tech after the summer holidays it might be best if you went into a remedial class. otherwise you'll end up having to repeat the junior cert.

so how many of your ancestors were shot as spies, touts & informers?

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 15:20

"i am not a nationalist, i am a republican but to say that nationalism leads inevitably to fascism is the argument of a child"

Eh I made the argument, re-read what I said, instead of ignoring it, and answer the points I raised instead screaming abuse at me for being a West Brit (Incidently while we're trading insults about our parents, isn't it true your mother would spread her thighs for any passing stray dogs?)

To summrise;

"To tell me that there is no historical relationship between Nationalism and Fascism is actually priceless. I mean genuinely hysterical. You have no understanding of the background, methodology and tactics of Fascism in history. How the Third Reich glorified the idea of the German people and German history to suit their goals and idealogy.

Fascism and Nationalism, look at the BNF, and it's talk of Anglo Saxon, the purity of it's heritage. Or Aine and her co horts manipulating Irish heritage claiming they're protecting it from invaders. Fascism and Nationalism are as intertwined as the reeds that gives us the name fascism. Cultural pride has always been a way for them to garner recruits. And the GAA has been a breeding ground for a bunch of fascist thugs the Provos. Spare me your defense of them, anyone who has destroyed as many live, and hurt as many people and used terror to keep it's "own people" "onside" are Fascists. "

Nationalism has always been a way for leaders to foster hatred of other countries and cultures. To distract attention from real problems and real issues. To make it a "us" vs "them" issue.

Call me a child if you like, but you're the one who's started launching abuse about parents and grandparents. God I can't wait till I'm as old as you so I can be able to put together such a rational argument.

Where did I say what about self determination? You've conviently ignored facts when I've presented them to you. To wit most of the countries that toiled under British oppression now toil under miltary regiemes, poverty caused by corporate gobalisation, or religious intolerance. Self determination is invariably "our leaders tell us to go over there and fight"

I'm saying we shouldn't glorify nationalism. That people should start waking up and realising that they've got more in common with the poor people over the border, than the leaders who spout retoric about national heritage and idenity, and display relics that we're supposed to "oooh" and "aah". When we start trying to help ourselves, and those oppressed around us in other countries, then things are going to change.

by patc Mon Jul 29, 2002 15:39

km you are the one who started the insults going. now while we're at it weren't your grandmothers whores for the black & tans?

see i can do it as well.

by your own words you seem to think theres something wrong with hating the ruc & unionism & you lay the blame of that hatred at the door of the gaa etc.

i suppose none of that hatred was due to the orange state, catholics being denied jobs, gerrymandering of constituencies, denial of housing, denial of one person one vote & denial of other civil rights.

you are long on verbiage but short on logic.

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 16:07

See I can ignore........

It's fantastic, you should donate your eyes to medicial science. I write one thing you see another.

I HATE NATIONALISM. Not the Nationalist side in the north. All forms of nationalism. Unionism is a form of nationalism. Republicism is a form of nationalism. Nazism is a form of nationalism. The idea of nationhood. Didn't your Ladybird book of Socialism, cover this. The idea of nations separating the people? Not the nationalists in the north. NATIONALISM.

The GAA, the orange order, the Royal hiberian lodges, the B-specials, these groups spread and encouraged hatred, fed the vicious cycle, bred the hate, and angry between communities, an anger encouraged by religion, and politics and groups like this. The GAA got brought into this by you, as one of the many groups that has helped divide the people of the north, who have actually nothing different between them, when you strip away politics and history, and NATIONALISM, and idenity, they're just people. People who have more in common with the people on the far side of the Peace wall in East Belfast than their leaders would like them to know.

People who live in shit hosuing and have no jobs, and instead of hating the terrorists on both sides who've breed this situation, they hate each other because of this history.

When if you got them to look past that crap to grow up and look beyond, nationalism and heritage they'd see that they are just ordinary people like themselves and theres no good reason to hate other than years of history and breeding, and because they've been brought up to hate.

Ireland will never be truly free, and by free I mean at peace, until we let go of our past and start looking to the future. Instead of celebrating the glorious 12th, or the Easter rising, people start building for their childrens future, people on both sides. And to do that we have to put away Collins hurley and the GAA, and the Unionists have got to drop all their baggage.

This is the essence of my problem with your lump of wood, and the GAA and all that crap, because it perpuates the problem, and until we let go we're dooming ourselves to the same cycle of violence you're rejoicing in.

Which is contemptable. I'm young I'm Irish. And you know what I'm tired of Collins, and DeV and the B-specials, and I want peace. And the best way to start that is letting go to the tonnes of historical baggage we as a people are burdened with.

Now feel free to nitpick and abuse my logic all you like, and call me a West Brit, but this is the truth. I'm tired of death and killing and the glorification of death and killing. I'm tired of people using death and killing as justification for more death and killing.

Let it go.

Tiocfadh har lar. I know what it means, it'd like to steal that phrase from the republican butchers. Our day will come, when we don't have to put up with all this shite.

by pat c Mon Jul 29, 2002 16:29

yet another long rant from km

you have totally ignored the systematic oppression suffered by the taigs. but then they wouldn't matter to you.

you are only capable of condemning the reactive violence of republicans. i have criticisms of the ira which i outlined on another thread; i'm no cheerleader for them. the bombing of civilian targets such as la mon, enniskillen, shankill rd etc were inevitably going to lead to civilian casulties & were unsupportable.

but a recognition of the murder campaign waged against the republican & nationalist people should also be recognised. if it wasn't for the republican paramilitaries then a lot more people would have been killed by the brits, udr, ruc, uvf, uda etc etc.

to compare the gaa to the orange order is really astounding.

the orange order denies membership to anyone who has even one catholic grandparent. it marches triumphantly through catholic areas to emphasise it central message which is "croppy lie down". this is precisely what its whole campaign around the garvaghy road is about. they had abanner on the hill there last year using those exact words.

i'm not aware of the gaa discriminating on the basis of religion or having any desire to march through loyalist areas.

the gaa quite correctly banned members of the ruc & crown forces from joining while gaa grounds were occupied & used as bases by the brits.

i'm still astounded that the mere mention of a lecture & unveiling of hurley has upset km so badly.

by King Mob Mon Jul 29, 2002 19:34

I talk about us having to let go of history and start looking to the future, and letting go of the differences between communties and start seeing what both sides have in common as the solution of this mess.

And what do you do? You rattle off your tawdry little justification for the republican point of view, with the addendum that sometimes Republican violence is "unjustifible" so we can see you're a rational man.

I'm not a Unionist and I'm not a West Brit, and I'm bored with those names you call me because I'm not as "patriotic" as you. But then I recall the Hitler Youth would intimidate those who weren't members, and "loyal Germans.", with stupid names, and jeering.

The fire bombing of children, the behaviour of the B-specials, the Unionists marching season, Einskillen, both sides use atroctices like these as ammo in their war to explain what they do "is necessary". To a Unionist in East Belfast your excuses would be outrageous, and he'd come with with as many "good" reasons for UDF atrocties, or abuse of the St. Marys children, both sides will always find excuses and explaination for "their boys".

Lets strip away the history and the crap. Two groups of thugs teared up the north, extortion rackets, drug deals, terror. But our boys are "freedom fighters", or "patriotic defenders" depending on what colour your curb is painted.

What I'm trying to say and what you keep failing to grasp, is both sides will always find plenty of justification for their behaviour, and thank you for proving my point.

Now try and wrap your head around what I've be struggling to get you to see, what I'm saying is we've got to let go of all this history or we're going to go through it all over again.

And your ignorant inability to grasp this and still despite of everything I've said about wanting to forget the past and move forward, you witter on about "West Brits" and "Black and Tans", and the justification for terrorism.

You've made my argument for me.

Good bye. I sincerely hope we see the back of your way of thinking.

The hurley was just the beginning of the argument, I've been smacking my head againist the brick wall of your mindless stupidity.

by pat c Tue Jul 30, 2002 09:36

you seem to be incapable of addressing any logical point of debate.

you have ignored my points about the systematic discrimination suffered by catholics in the north.

you have ignored my points about how it was ridiclious to compare thgaa to the orange order.

you have ignored the points about reactiuve & defensive violence versus state oppression.

quite basically it is obvious that you support the violence of the oppressor against the oppressed.

i wonder what has reduced you to this pathological state of self-loathing and west-brittery? your tirade of comments really amount to nothing more than the inane ramblings of a confused & tormented mind.

you are a text-book example of how wanking leads to feeblemindedness. so cut down on those pornsites.

there really isn't any point in continuing this debate because you consistently refuse to address any of the points i make.

you can have the final word; so, get those sticky fingers out of your crotch and back on the keyboard.

perhaps we'll meet again on another thread.

bye bye,

th - th - th - thats all folks!

"thirteen gone but not forgotten;
we got eighteen and mountbatten!"