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Peter Hart praises book that rubbishes his research
cork |
history and heritage |
other press
Tuesday April 03, 2007 09:22 by Jack Lane - Aubane Historical Association Aubane Historical Association, Millstreet, Cork, Ireland
Peter Hart's review of Borgonovo book obscures criticism of.... Peter Hart by Jack Lane Irish Political Review April 2007 And furthermore, "Nor were members of the IRA protected by the Hague Convention, the basis for the law of war on land. The British government and its forces were not at war in this sense. To be recognised as belligerent soldiers, the guerrillas would have had to be fighting for a responsible established state, wear a recognisable uniform or emblem, carry their arms openly, and not disguise themselves as civilians. None of these conditions applied. It is of course true that international law favours established states, but if any group can claim belligerent status when using political violence, then so can the INLA or the LVF. The Oklahoma bombers would also conceivably have a right to POW status." (Irish Times, 22 July 1998)
by observer Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:58
Well done to the Aubane Historical Society for pursuing this like little terriers. Bit of a shift from the BICO days, but you're certainly entertaining the history-reading public!
by jack lane - Aubane Historical Society Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:00
I am sure 'observer' knows that Mr Hart and his brand of IrIsh history was not around in what he terms 'BICO days'
by observer Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:21
No, but Conor Cruise O'Brien was and you didn't mind cuddling up to him.
by Edward Young Tue Apr 03, 2007 13:32
Peter Hart seems to have learned something from his study of British counter insurgency, in his dealings with his critics. Whereas in History Ireland (see link above and below) he tried a full frontal assault and came away with egg all over his face, now he tries to kill criticism with kindness.
by Niall Meehan Tue Apr 03, 2007 16:01
The story that Borgonovo tells of Florence and Josephine O'Donoghue is fascinating.
by Jack Lane Tue Apr 03, 2007 18:01
Straight answer to 'observer''s question which he would not need to ask if he took the trouble to read stuff I write - I am a two nationist. Nations don't come and go very often. Also if he took even more trouble to read O'Brien he would know that O'Brien categorically rejected that position on more than one occasion and never accepted it. Hopefully 'observer' might now get over his fixations and make a contribution to the current debate. It would be a little bit more useful than this ill-informed sniping.
by Ghost of the UWC Sun May 13, 2007 17:09
As I remember the first people to mention or highlight at least the allegation that Protestants were massacred by the IRA in west Cork in 1922 were BICO in about 1972, in workers weekly or one of the other dozen publications that or one of their fronts published. Theres a long story about this elsewhere on Indymedia. From Peking to Aubane I think. By the way, Semaus Heaney, who BICO used to consider a backward nationalist poet also got the ewart biggs prize one year. Was he a revisionist as well?
by Jack Lane - Aubane Historical Society Wed May 16, 2007 15:45
‘Ghost’s methodology reminds me of that of Peter Hart - outlandish claims based on spurious evidence. At least Peter does attempt to back up his allegations with some sort of research and evidence.
by Niall Meehan Thu May 31, 2007 22:42
In this letter (click to read) John Borgonovo questions Peter Hart's sweeping and inaccurate generalisations about who the IRA shot during the War of Independence in Cork .
by Frank Fri Jun 01, 2007 21:50
I remember the correspondence between Jack Lane and one Pierce Martin in Village magazine on this subject. I had entered the fray earlier on by commenting on the fact that the revisionist approach to Irish history is always taken from the British perspective, namely..'How dare we rebel?' Martin and Hart take the same approach to the point that they could be one and the same. Jack prevailed in the joust handsomely.
by Cats-Outta-Debag Fri Jun 29, 2007 22:02
Jack Lane is right about the Cruiser-in the Pamphlet "Queen's: a comment on a university"-Brendan Clifford said:
by Cats-Outta-Debag Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:36
Why would any organisation spend almost twenty-five years, a large amount of time, money, and resources (around Fifty pamphlets published) aggressively defending N.I.'s union with Britain (denouncing the SDLP, Sinn Fein, the Alliance Party and Ulster Nationalists), and then suddenly embrace the same position they had forcefully attacked, without a convincing explanation?
by Cats-Outta-Debag Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:54
Here is a list of articles discussing and criticising Brendan Clifford, the B&ICO and Workers’ Association,
by Peter Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:10
If Mr Cat wants to start an irrelevant discussion about what appears to be his pet subject, could he start his own thread, and leave this one alone.
by Cats-Outta-Debag Fri Jul 20, 2007 17:38
I have no time for Peter Hart-any competent historian could point out the flaws in his research. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the Aubane Historical Society,and giving some background information and speculations on its questionable motives.
by Peter Fri Jul 20, 2007 20:22
Rubbish. You are a sectarian nincompoop (or worse) who (by your own admission) has no intention of addressing the contents of this page. I repeat, do it on another thread, and attract all the followers you want there. You are a gatecrasher. Buzz off.
by Cats-Outta-Debag Sat Jul 21, 2007 19:35
Borgonovo's works have some valuble insights into the period.
by Paul Stokes Sat Jul 21, 2007 19:59
That's some very interesting information you've put up about one of the most controversial
by Frank Sat Jul 21, 2007 22:00
I am in agreement with the poster above. If Cat (Bag?) wants to establish a case, then start a thread about that, instead of muscling into this one and making sarcastic comments about what another historian might do. Cat (bag) should take his own advice and write his own history of a group he takes such a close interest in. Then, he should be grateful if people tackling him on it stick to the point. He made three successive interventions, one after the other on a subject that has nothing to do with this thread. He could have, without a problem, started his own thread and alerted readers to it in a short post here. He can still to that. If he does not, he is a troll. Plain and simple.
by Captain White Tue Dec 04, 2007 18:34
A related controversy:
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