Shell to Sea Galway welcomes Fianna Fail economic seminar

by R Mon Jul 17, 2006 15:49

o

by R Mon Jul 17, 2006 15:51

More

by R Mon Jul 17, 2006 15:57

Info

by cool j Mon Jul 17, 2006 16:05

Great stuff!! - Especially in the heart of Frank Fahy country(Not for long one hopes!!!) - Any sightings of the crook himself??

by R Mon Jul 17, 2006 16:59

The crook was there indeed.

Last seen bolting away in flash black car (Standard issue of the dark princes..) with Cowen in the front.

Also in attendance was Micheal Martin and various other raggle taggle ShellOuts.

THE NEXT SEMINAR IS TO TAKE PLACE IN CORK. Not sure of details or what the topic is.

The seminars are seen as a new way of senior FFers of re-engaging and involving the grassroots but from what we heard today (From FFers who were inside) they're already failing.

by John Mon Jul 17, 2006 21:48

Who discovered the Corrib gas field? You seem to be under the impression that it was the Mayo Small Farmers and Workers Cooperative who discovered it and then the big bad capitalists came and took it off them. Well actually, it wasn't. It was Shell who discovered it. That's right, S H E L L. They discovered it after spending billions on exploration in Irish waters over the past 30 years without any return. What you want is for oil companies to spend billions year-in year-out exploring largely barren Irish waters without any contribution from the State. And then, when they finally make a small discovery, you want them to F*CK OFF and hand the field they've discovered over to that same State without compensation. Even a two-year-old child could tell you that, if Ireland went down that route, all further exploration in Irish waters would come to a complete halt. But, nice to see the same faces out picketing every FF gathering. No doubt you'll be out in force picketing the FF tent at Galway races in a week or two. Don't you have any work to go to?

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 17, 2006 21:59

Hi Lads,

I suppose Fahy is away with Bertie and his other cronies, planning their next assault and robbery of the Irish People. Or busilly wording the next bit of Legislation that will strip us further of our Human Rights.

Spare a thought for the campaigners at Tara who are trying to prevent the NRA from bulldosing through our Ancestors Sacred Burial grounds, and one of the most ancient Heritage sites in the World. In order to build a tolled Motorway and rob the people further.

Way to go! Glad to see you keeping up the good work!

The fight will continue..

by S Mon Jul 17, 2006 22:36

John, corporations can get paid without getting paid on the most generous terms in the world. As energy demand increases internationally, oil and gas companies are looking further and further afield in their exploration. This makes the West coast and many previously 'hard to explore' locations finally attractive. The companies have the technology and knowledge to make great gains. They're not bloody Barnardos children's charity - they're multi-billion Euro operations who know exactly what they're doing. 'A complete hault' in all exploration is increasingly very unlikely.

I'm not sure what your reference to 'same old faces' at the demo was about. It was my first demonstation in Galway and I took off 6 hours work to attend it. I'm now working throughout the evening to catch up (in between replying to upset people like you...).

I took 6 hours off work to participate because I care for the rights, resources, environment and culture in which we live. I am not prepared for profits to come at any cost. I believe there are much more sound, safe and viable policies that would benefit our country in many better ways. I'm not alone on this and speaking to dozens of passer bys today confirmed this. I'm not prepared to live in a quasi corporate state that offers short-sighted exploitative policies as a form of government and leadership. I demand better and will continue to join with the growing Shell to Sea movement to reach that aim.

Indeed, see you at the Galway races where Mark Thatcher (Maggie's arms trading son) was once embraced by Fahey and co. under the guise of Enterprise Energy Ireland (later to become Shell Enterprise Energy Ireland).

Now, I do have work to go to (thanks for asking!!) so cheerio.

by John Tue Jul 18, 2006 09:59

The reason that the exploration terms in Irish waters are among the most generous in the world is because Irish waters are among the most barren in the world when it comes to yielding oil and gas discoveries. Over 30 years of exploration, at a cost of billions, has produced no commercial oil fields and only two small gas fields. To suggest that Ireland should have the same exploration terms as other countries whose seas have yielded hundreds of commercial oil fields is ludicrous. When less generation exploration terms (introduced by socialist Justin Keating) were in operation between 1975 and 1990 (or so), not a single commercial discovery of any kind was made in Irish waters and by the end of that period exploration in Irish waters had ground to a complete halt. That's why the exploration terms introduced by Keating were relaxed and more generous exploration terms brought back. This led to a renewed burst of exploration in Irish waters and eventually to the discovery of the Corrib gas field. Had the terms not been relaxed the Corrib field wouldn't have been discovered in the first place. Even with the currently more generous exploration terms, the relative barrenness of Irish waters makes them an unattractive proposition for oil and gas exploration. If the exploration terms for the relatively barren Irish waters were amended to be on a par with, say, the North Sea, no oil/gas exploration company in its right mind would choose to explore in Irish waters, given that in the past 30 years Irish waters have yielded no oil discoveries while the North Sea has yielded hundreds.

by FOT Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:09

John, if the Corrib field was not being exploited, what difference would it make to the people of Ireland?

We're not getting anything out of it anyway, and as far as I know it's not doing any harm just sitting there.

It's like we have a big gold statue buried in our garden, and no-one will help us dig it up unless we give it to them. They're not even prepared to share the profits, they want it all.

Maybe we should leave it there and wait until someone comes along who will give us a share?

by S2S Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:10

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77293

by John Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:33

As the Kinsale field and North Sea/Irish Sea gas fields owned by the UK run down, our gas supply is increasingly coming from eastern Europe and Siberia. We're at the end of a 4,000 mile pipeline. If that supply is disrupted either because of Al-Quaida terrorist activity or because the Russian Government starts acting bolshie (excuse pun), then you will soon see the advantage to Ireland in having its own gas supply from off its own coast. The fact that the only organisations with the technical expertise to exploit the gas reserves lying off our coast and provide us with security of supply are multi-national companies is irrelevant. Nothing is more certain than at some point in the next few years there will be interruptions to our gas supply from eastern Europe and Siberia for the reasons given above and Ireland will simply have to go without gas in mid-winter for days or even weeks. When that happens the whole anti-Shell campaign will collapse and politicians of all hues will be on their knees begging Shell to develop the Corrib field as quickly as possible.

by hedgehog Tue Jul 18, 2006 17:12

One of which is that the irish taxpayer paid for the initial surveys of the area that indicated the presence of the gas. Tony O reilly, (according to himself!) then used his influence (and fear of his newspaper) to secure the best licence based on his own geologists reading of this data. he then sold off most of his share of the licence for a huge profit, all for doing nothing, knowing the right people and owning an influential newspaper.

According to the licence, we have a paltry tax rate on this gas of 25% but this is after all exploration/development fees for the last 25 years are subtracted. These will be easy to inflate and it may be years if ever we actually get any tax off the gas. The gas may come ashore in ireland but there is no obligation except logistics to sell it to ireland. When the international market hots up, who knows, it may be sold elsewhere. We have to pay full market value for the gas. there is no special price. In other words, we were royally shafted by the energy companies but it could not have happened without the assistance of frank fahey, bertie ahern and that fine upstanding non tax paying citizen, mr Tony o'reilly. (piss be upon him).

John are you saying that this is all fine? In that case, I think you must be either one of the aforementioned scumbags, a shareholder in one of the energy companies, paid to write stuff, or a complete idiot.

you should read the following indymedia article

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75446

by Cormac Eile Wed Jul 19, 2006 15:47

Hedgehog - your arguments are cogent and sound.

It is a ridiculously incompetent deal that has been agreed to by our government/civil service. In this agreement, we pay for all the exploration by that company, that they'd have otherwise had to pay themselves, we are then totally exposed to the market in terms of pricing. We take all the risk, they take the lions share of the profit. Dumb, dumb, dadumb, dumb, Dumb!

At the moment it is a sellers market, and in this case, we are the sellers. Should the buyer not like our price, we shouldn't panic into selling. The problem is that it looks like we're locked into this stupid contract. Close scrutiny should be paid to the get out clauses in the contract, especially in relation to environmental and planning breaches, and if it is possible, the contract should be declared void for breach, so that the negotiations can be held again.

While we might find that the exploration companies may be a bit shy in negotiating for this gas again, ultimately one of them will, because:

1. Such resources are still essential to modern civilisation, and they are getting more and more rare
2. The biggest sources of European gas are under the control of Putin, and he will not hesitate to shut it off or reduce it to his own benefit - as we've seen. (What can one expect from a KGB commufascist). European security demands that we establish our own supplies, and we all know how intertwined the exploration companies are with the UK and US governments, so they will eventually buy into our gas fields.

RENEGOTIATE THIS USELESS CONTRACT NOW!

by Shane - S2S Thu Jul 20, 2006 14:18

.... that according to Irish oil rig workers the oil and gas companies have consistently LIED about how much gas and oil is out there. They sent false samples to the state and capped wells until the more profitable legislation came into place. When the rig workers took this information to government ministers (including Fahy) in the 1980's and 1990's they chose to ignore it. The upshot? The whistleblowing rather than helping the country exposed how corrupt and complicit our ministers are and now all jobs on rigs go to workers from other countries as the Irish workers' sense of civic responsibility could have gotten in the way of the oil companies' profits.