Over 10,000 Proclamations Distributed

by Barleyman Tue Jul 04, 2006 03:44

Well done. Great idea and hopefully it highlights to people how far Ireland is from the ideals of the people that were behind the Proclamation. Hopefully other organisations will come out and support your work and ideas.

by Dublin Fan Tue Jul 04, 2006 03:50

Was in the Hill 16 pub after the dubs game Sunday before last and got a 1916 poster from some eirigi people, as did nearly everybody else in the place. Great idea, the poster is the business. Begs the question why didn't Berite and the boys do it first? Anyone remember the Millenium candle or the Iodine tablets? but no Proclamation - must be afraid someone might read it and ask them a tricky question. Keep up the good work!

by No candle Tue Jul 04, 2006 04:07

never got the candle or tablets or census form so there ain't much hope of getting a proclamation. Bit of a pity 'cause its the only one that i'd really like. is there any kind of stall or shop where i can pick one up or do i just have to hang around in hill 16 till they turn up??

by Confused Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:51

what's the point?

by john Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:13

yes whats the point......handing out a document to Irish people which claims the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens.
I'm sure those at Shell Ireland Corp would agree with you

by Not Confused Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:32

The point is that the proclamation is an inspirational document - as in "inspire". This campaign brilliance is in its simplicity. The 1916 proclamation does the work - all you have to do is get people to read it and grasp the potential of a risen people demanding a new Republic.

by Not impressed Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:45

Where did you get the money folks? Can't be cheap getting that many proclaimations done? Break away from SF? I don't think so. Not with all that money. And not a bit of argy bargy about you going. Pull the other one. SF being too clever by half. Just smoking out future dissent.

by pat c Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:51

Why not distribute the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil? As Ken Loach has shown in The Wind That Shakes The Barley it was a far more radical and meaningful document.

The Democratic Programme was a declaration of economic and social principles adopted by Dáil Éireann, the revolutionary parliament of the self-proclaimed Irish Republic, at its first meeting in the Mansion House, Dublin, on 21st January, 1919. Texts of the programme were adopted in two languages: English and Irish.


We declare in the words of the Irish Republican Proclamation the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies to be indefeasible, and in the language of our first President. Pádraíg Mac Phiarais, we declare that the Nation's sovereignty extends not only to all men and women of the Nation, but to all its material possessions, the Nation's soil and all its resources, all the wealth and all the wealth-producing processes within the Nation, and with him we reaffirm that all right to private property must be subordinated to the public right and welfare.

We declare that we desire our country to be ruled in accordance with the principles of Liberty, Equality, and Justice for all, which alone can secure permanence of Government in the willing adhesion of the people.

We affirm the duty of every man and woman to give allegiance and service to the Commonwealth, and declare it is the duty of the Nation to assure that every citizen shall have opportunity to spend his or her strength and faculties in the service of the people. In return for willing service, we, in the name of the Republic, declare the right of every citizen to an adequate share of the produce of the Nation's labour.

It shall be the first duty of the Government of the Republic to make provision for the physical, mental and spiritual well-being of the children, to secure that no child shall suffer hunger or cold from lack of food, clothing, or shelter, but that all shall be provided with the means and facilities requisite for their proper education and training as Citizens of a Free and Gaelic Ireland.

The Irish Republic fully realises the necessity of abolishing the present odious, degrading and foreign Poor Law System, substituting therefor a sympathetic native scheme for the care of the Nation's aged and infirm, who shall not be regarded as a burden, but rather entitled to the Nation's gratitude and consideration. Likewise it shall be the duty of the Republic to take such measures as will safeguard the health of the people and ensure the physical as well as the moral well-being of the Nation.

It shall be our duty to promote the development of the Nation's resources, to increase the productivity of its soil, to exploit its mineral deposits, peat bogs, and fisheries, its waterways and harbours, in the interests and for the benefit of the Irish people.

It shall be the duty of the Republic to adopt all measures necessary for the recreation and invigoration of our Industries, and to ensure their being developed on the most beneficial and progressive co-operative and industrial lines. With the adoption of an extensive Irish Consular Service, trade with foreign Nations shall be revived on terms of mutual advantage and goodwill, and while undertaking the organisation of the Nation's trade, import and export, it shall be the duty of the Republic to prevent the shipment from Ireland of food and other necessaries until the wants of the Irish people are fully satisfied and the future provided for.

It shall also devolve upon the National Government to seek co-operation of the Governments of other countries in determining a standard of Social and Industrial Legislation with a view to a general and lasting improvement in the conditions under which the working classes live and labour.

by Doubting Thomas Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:54

Not Impressed, I think you're wrong on this one. From what i'm hearing the people who've left SF are all very capable and well respected individuals and their exit is causing real problems on the ground. Not a very clever move less then tweleve months out from a general election. The cost of printing 10,000 posters wouldn't be more then a couple of thousand - hardly big money in todays world. You may be right but only time will tell.

by pat c Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:58

Dearbhuighimíd, I mbriathraibh for-fhógra Saorstáit Éireann go bhfuil sé de cheart ag muinntir na hÉireann sealbh na hÉireann do bheith aca agus cinneamhain an náisiúin do bheith fé n-a riar, agus nách féidir an ceart san do bhaint díobh; agus fébh mar dubhairt ár gceud Uachtarán Pádraig Mac Phiarais, dearbhuighimíd gur ceart go mbeadh, ní amháin fir agus mná na hÉireann, acht adhbhar maoine na hÉireann fé riaradh an náisiúin, idir talamh agus gustal na hÉireann, gach sadhas maoine agus gach gléas chun maoin do sholáthairt dá bhfuil san tír; agus athfhógraimíd an rud d'fhógair an Piarsach gur dual go mbéadh tosach ag ceart an phobuil chun leasa an phobuil ar cheart an duine chun seilbhe fé leith.

Dearbhuighmíd gur mian linn an ceart, an tsaoirse agus cothrom do chách a bheith mar bhuntacaí riaghlughadh na tíre, agus ná fuil d'urradhas le buanughadh Riaghaltais ná saorthoiliughadh na ndaoine chuige ach é.

Dearbhuighimíd go bhfuil sé de dhualgas ar gach fear agus gach mnaoi bheith umhal, díleas, freagarthach agus freastalach don Phobalacht; agus go bhfuil sé de dhualgas ar an náisiún feuchaint chuige go mbeidh caoi ag gach duine san tír ar a cheart agus a acfuinn féin do chur I bhfeidhm ar mhaithe le leas an phobuil. Mar chúiteamh ar fhreagra is freastal na ndaoine, dearbhuighimíd [22]I n-ainm an tSaorstáit, gur dual do gach duine a cion féin de thoradh saothair an náisiúin a bheith aige.

Isé an príomhchúram a bheidh ar Riaghaltas an tSaorstáit ná gleusa soláthar chun leas corpordha, leas spioradálta agus leas inntleachta na leanbhaí do chur I n-áirithe dhóibh; feuchaint chuige ná béidh an t-ocras ná an fuacht ag goilleamhaint ar éin leanbh de cheal bídh, eudaigh ná dín tighe; acht go bhfaghaidh siad gach cóir agus gleus is gádh dhóibh chun teagaisc agus taithighe ceart do thabhairt dóibh I gcóir na hoibre a bheidh le deunamh aca mar chomhaltaí den tSaorstát Gaedhealach.

Is follus do Shaorstát Éireann nach foláir an dlighe gránna iasachta a bhainnean le Tighthe na mBocht I nÉirinn agus gach a ngabhann leis de chéimsíos is de náire, do chur ar ceal, agus plean éifeachtach éigin do cheapadh a bheidh oireamhnach don tír chun aire cheart do thabhairt do sheandaoinibh agus do lagaibh an náisiúin, daoine a thuilleann freastal agus buidheachas ón náisiún I n-ionad tarcuisne agus neamhshuime. Na theannta son, beidh sé de chúram ar an Saorstát gach gleus is áis dár ghádh a chur I bhfeidhm chun sláinte an phobuil agus leas corpordha an náisiúin, agus leas anama an náisiúin dá bhárr do chur I n-áirithe dhóibh.

Beidh sé de dhualgas orainn cabhrughadh le meudughadh gustail an náisiúin, an talamh a dheunamh níos torthamhla agus níos iontsaothruighthe; mianach na hÉireann, a portaigh mhóna, a cuid iascaigh, a bealaigh uisce, agus a cuanta do chur chun críche I ceart chun tairbhe muinntire na hÉireann.

Beidh sé de dhualgas ar an Saorstát gach níd is gádh do dheunamh chun ár ndéantúsa d'aithbheóchaint is do neartughadh agus feuchaint chuige go saothróchfar iad do réir "comhar oibre" ar an gcuma is feárr 's is oireamhnaighe 's is mó raghaidh I dtairbhe do chách. Cuirfar feadhmannaigh ó Éirinn go tíortha thar lear d'fhonn ceannuidheacht agus tráchtáil do chur chun cinn idir Éire agus na tíortha úd, a raghaidh I leas don tír seo agus dosna tíortha eile. Nuair a thabharfaidh an Saorstát fé thráchtáil an náisiúin, idir díoluidheacht agus ceannuidheacht, do riarad, beidh sé de dhualgas ar an Saorstát gan biadh ná earraí eile go bhfuil gádh leó do leigint thar lear ó Éirinn go mbiedeh a leórdhóthain fachta ag muinntir na hÉireann, agus a sáith I dtaisce aca I gcóir an ama le teacht.

Beidh sé de chúram ar Riaghaltas an Náisiúin, leis, a iarraidh ar Riaghaltaisí tíortha eile cabhrughadh agus comhoibriughadh ar chomh-chéim leó chun dlighthe I dtaobh gnáthshaoghail agus gnáth-oibre an phobuil do cheapadh a chuirfidh feabhas mór ar an gcórughadh saoghail is saothair a bhíonn le fághail ag lucht oibre.

by Mark H Tue Jul 04, 2006 14:02

Good idea on the Democratic Programme. You're dead right, its a very radical manifesto. It was quoted extensively in the wind that shakes the barley. Its also quoted on the eirigi website on the natural resources page. I always view the 1916 Proclamation and the 1919 Democratic Programme as being like one joint documnet, one for the national and one for the social and economic. I think that this being the nintieth anniversary year is the reason why eirigi are handing out Proclamations. Might be an idea to do the same with the Democratic Programme in 2009.

by Bourgeois nationalist Tue Jul 04, 2006 14:19

the Proclamation is a terrible document not worthy of distribution even though its one of the most radical documents this country has ever produced and the fact the 1916 rising is one of the most important incidents in the history of Ireland and not to mention the fact it gave inspiration to many peoples around the world whom were/are under the yoke of imperialism

Thats a great idea pat c, why don't you distribute the democratic programme of the first Dail. If you do decide to you'll get my support. Well done my good man good idea.

by The brady bunch Tue Jul 04, 2006 14:34

(Not impressed) you obviously havent bumped into any of their activists around the city yet,or they would of explained to you the reason why they are doing pub runs,i asked the very same question to one of them and they explained that the donations in which they are recieving are just about covering the cost of print.

by Daydoe Tue Jul 04, 2006 15:13

Lot of talk about this group being some part of Sinn Fein still and its just a cover etc. My cousin is a member and while i dont always agree with his strong politics i know he was sick of the way that party were treating activists on the ground and the route their politics were heading. He and others were key SF people and are now non-political so fair play to them. They believe strongly in what they are about and this Proclaimation idea is a good one whatever shade of green you are.

by Still Not Impressed Tue Jul 04, 2006 15:33

"He and others were key SF people and are now non-political so fair play to them."

Never heard such bs in all my life. How can you go from not agreeing with SF to now being non-political. Obviously left over a political reason. Only SF could claim that these people are now non-political. Stop convincing me.

by Not impressed either Tue Jul 04, 2006 15:34

"all you have to do is get people to read it and grasp the potential of a risen people demanding a new Republic"

no, all you have to do is get people to read it, grasp the potential and then ACT ON IT.

I have a sneaking suspicion the last of these might pose a little more problem than these obviously well meaning folks think.

by mojo pin Tue Jul 04, 2006 16:04

no, all you have to do is get people to read it, grasp the potential and then ACT ON IT.

"I have a sneaking suspicion the last of these might pose a little more problem than these obviously well meaning folks think"

You have to start some where. I also have a sneaking suspicion that making working class people aware not only of the socialist and national liberation objectives of the proclamation is a good start. These well meaning folks are very capable, I know most of them when I was in SF. I think the left bicker too much and focus too much negative attention one one another. Over 100,000 people marched against the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to groups trying to own, take over and set up silly front groups the anti war cause has been dealt a huge blow. Grow up and stop being so negative towards people trying to educate and radicalise working class community's, who will be the major driving force of revolution in Ireland and made up most of the people who fought against the British Army in the last 90 years the same British army in Iraq. Revolution won't come from "4 year radical" students or the "intelligency" who only read about revolution or the working class in books.

by Not Impressed Tue Jul 04, 2006 16:26

"Grow up and stop being so negative towards people trying to educate and radicalise working class community's, who will be the major driving force of revolution in Ireland and made up most of the people who fought against the British Army in the last 90 years the same British army in Iraq. Revolution won't come from "4 year radical" students or the "intelligency" who only read about revolution or the working class in books."

But isn't that political?

by Charlie Kerins Tue Jul 04, 2006 16:32

Ever heard of this??

"The Declaration of Independence was a document adopted by Dáil Éireann, the revolutionary parliament of the self-proclaimed Irish Republic, at its first meeting in the Mansion House, Dublin, on 21st January, 1919. Texts of the declaration were adopted in three languages: Irish, English and French."

Whereas the Irish people is by right a free people:

And Whereas for seven hundred years the Irish people has never ceased to repudiate and has repeatedly protested in arms against foreign usurpation:

And Whereas English rule in this country is, and always has been, based upon force and fraud and maintained by military occupation against the declared will of the people:

And Whereas the Irish Republic was proclaimed in Dublin on Easter Monday, 1916, by the Irish Republican Army acting on behalf of the Irish people:

And Whereas the Irish people is resolved to secure and maintain its complete independence in order to promote the common weal, to re-establish justice, to provide for future defence, to insure peace at home and goodwill with all nations and to constitute a national polity based upon the people's will with equal right and equal opportunity for every citizen:

And Whereas at the threshold of a new era in history the Irish electorate has in the General Election of December, 1918, seized the first occasion to declare by an overwhelming majority its firm allegiance to the Irish Republic:

Now, therefore, we, the elected Representatives of the ancient Irish people in National Parliament assembled, do, in the name of the Irish nation, ratify the establishment of the Irish Republic and pledge ourselves and our people to make this declaration effective by every means at our command:

We ordain that the elected Representatives of the Irish people alone have power to make laws binding on the people of Ireland, and that the Irish Parliament is the only Parliament to which that people will give its allegiance:

We solemnly declare foreign government in Ireland to be an invasion of our national right which we will never tolerate, and we demand the evacuation of our country by the English Garrison

We claim for our national independence the recognition and support of every free nation in the world, and we proclaim that independence to be a condition precedent to international peace hereafter:

In the name of the Irish people we humbly commit our destiny to Almighty God who gave our fathers the courage and determination to persevere through long centuries of a ruthless tyranny, and strong in the justice of the cause which they have handed down to us, we ask His divine blessing on this the last stage of the struggle we have pledged ourselves to carry through to Freedom.

by Colm Breathnach - ISN personal capacity Tue Jul 04, 2006 16:32 breathc at hotmail dot com

I fail to see what all the fuss is about on this thread.

In the first place, the Éirígí proclaimation initiative did'nt just come out of the blue. Its not like they plucked a historic document at random and decided to distribute it! Over the last year year or so there has been a consistent attempt by the establishment/state to co-opt and neutralise the commemoration of 1916. So, to that extent, distributing the proclamation is a radical response to that co-option. Of course the Proclamation is not a socialist document, it is of its time and place, but its radical democratic content contrasts sharply to the manner in which the Irish state has developed so its distribution could contribute to a popular perception that the progressive ideals of the proclamation are at odds with the current structure of society and expose the hypocrisy of the Government -sponsored commemorations. I dont think anybody is claiming that this campaign is going to lead to instant revolution but we should avoid the traditional one-up-manship of the left: "our campaign is the only one thats in tune with the interests of the working class and yours is irrelevent etc. etc.". Personally I would'nt prioritise this campaign, but if the members of Éirígí want to do so, I'm not going to knock it because I think it will make a small but positive contribution to the struggle for a socialist republic.

As for the nature of the relationship between Éirígí and Sinn Féin, if it is simply a 'disguised' SF campaign then that will quickly emerge and nobody will be fooled. If it is the result of a split based on political differences then I am sure the nature of these differences and the political positions of the new group will emerge over time. Clarifying ones political position, and in the process leaving an organisation/setting up a new one, is a long process. I know this personally, as I stayed in the Workers Party for about four years after I had come to doubt its basic ideological position and I actually helped to set up Democratic Left and remained a member for two years, even though I had serious doubts about its trajectory right from the start. So demanding immediate clarification of differences and an A to Z of ideological positions of people who have just left a party is counterproductive and will only ensure that those whom we denounce will definitely not engage in any dialogue with us in the future.

http://www.irishsocialist.net/easter.html

by Jonah - Sinn Féin (Personal capacity) Tue Jul 04, 2006 16:45

"He and others were key SF people and are now non-political so fair play to them."

"Never heard such bs in all my life. How can you go from not agreeing with SF to now being non-political. Obviously left over a political reason. Only SF could claim that these people are now non-political. Stop convincing me."

Without putting words into the comrade's mouth, I think he might have been referring to non-party political. Shortly after it was set up Éirigí decided not to allow people to join it who were members of any political party, including Sinn Féin, in which the vast majority of them had been involved.

As for their reasons for leaving, they are the best to outline them. From my experience of dealing with a number of personal friends who have left it is a combination of political and ideological differences with the party's position or what they believe the party's position will be in the future; organisational difficulties they have with the internal workings of the party as an organisation and personal differences with specific individuals they felt unable to work through.

All of the people I know who left had some combination of those feelings with different people having different ones as their primary motivator. While I disagree with their analysis and believe they have made a serious political misjudgement, I would commend any activist who decides to spend their time handing out free copies of the Proclamation. As Colm pointed out, people might prefer them to do other things, but in some small way it is building republicanism in Dublin then it is to be welcomed.

by Jebus Tue Jul 04, 2006 17:02

The pettiness and capacity for pure bitchiness of the left never ceases to astound me. The one-upmanship, and self-delusional arrogance of some people is just pathetic, and probably one of the main reasons that the left in this state isn't as strong as could and should be. There are too many keyboard warriors only prepared to whinge, moan and criticise, and not enough people willing to get up from their computers and try to light a spark or make a change. For this reason, plus the fact that it seems to be a campaign that all left-thinking groups and individuals, éirígí deserves commendation and support. They certainly have mine.

by interested Wed Jul 05, 2006 23:34

All of a sudden an unknown group appears out of nowhere and announces that it intends to leaflet every house in Dublin with the Proclamation. A fairly costly exercise requiring a lot of footsoldiers. No announcement about where they came from or what their purpose is. Then we hear from SF members that these people are all ex-SF members but that there is no bitterness. This alone is fairly unique with SF. SF are not known for remaining friends with former comrades who become ‘dissidents’. At no time do any of the actual group explain why they left SF or what they intend to do except give out these Proclamations. And they expect to be taken seriously?
Who does giving out the Proclamations benefit? Surely most people will assume that it’s an SF exercise? If these people left SF for ideological reasons you would expect them to focus on pushing the issues that SF are ignoring, in their opinion. Pushing the Proclamations thru letterboxes is hardly providing an alternative to the policies they allegedly left SF over?
Some of the members of the new group wouldn’t exactly inspire confidence as independent thinkers given their previous role in SF.
How come no one in SF appear to be very worried about this split in the run up to their most important election in years? Particularly because these alleged former members are footsoldiers and a lot of the old guard of footsoldiers have been offloaded over the last couple of years?

by jambo Thu Jul 06, 2006 13:34

"All of a sudden an unknown group appears out of nowhere and announces that it intends to leaflet every house in Dublin with the Proclamation. A fairly costly exercise requiring a lot of footsoldiers. No announcement about where they came from or what their purpose is"

As I'm a member of SF I know a lot of people whom are unhappy of the party's drift to the center so maybe it wasn't so "all of a sudden" and no they don't intend to leaflet every house in Dublin with the proclamation. its 100,000. please read the eirigi website before you post, it just makes you look foolish otherwise.

"Then we hear from SF members that these people are all ex-SF members but that there is no bitterness. This alone is fairly unique with SF. SF are not known for remaining friends with former comrades who become ‘dissidents’"

I know 3 men and 2 of the women involved, they are sound and i bear no ill feelings towards them. I hoped they would of stayed in the party and change things from within.

"At no time do any of the actual group explain why they left SF or what they intend to do except give out these Proclamations. And they expect to be taken seriously?"

Setting up a new group can be difficult, so maybe they don't want to define them self's by there opinion on SF - Do the SWP or SP do like wise, no. Again read the web site the proclamation is their first campaign. they are a campaigns group. you gotta start somewhere and its a good start.

"Who does giving out the Proclamations benefit?"
Its benefits the Irish people

"Surely most people will assume that it’s an SF exercise? If these people left SF for ideological reasons you would expect them to focus on pushing the issues that SF are ignoring, in their opinion. Pushing the Proclamations thru letterboxes is hardly providing an alternative to the policies they allegedly left SF over?"

Classic lefty bashing from the left - one upmanship again. the proclamation is not owned by any one group but by the Irish people and its distribution will befit the Irish people.

Some of the members of the new group wouldn’t exactly inspire confidence as independent thinkers given their previous role in SF.
How exactly?

How come no one in SF appear to be very worried about this split in the run up to their most important election in years? Particularly because these alleged former members are footsoldiers and a lot of the old guard of footsoldiers have been offloaded over the last couple of years?

If you thats much of a moran to use phases like "footsoldiers" you are just too stupid to reply to...reading sir tonys indo are we?

by Skeptical Thu Jul 06, 2006 14:11

I'm setting up a sports group. We're not a football team. We won't b entering the football championship. However, no members of my new group are allowed to be members of any football team. They can be members of anything else they like, GreenPeace, the Orange Order, The Boys Brigade, The Association of Irish Arch-Druids, just no Football Teams.

We're going to spend our time practising football, even though we're not a football team.

We're also going to contact players from the successful football team down the road, and try to recruit them to our new sports group. We'll explain that we had problems when we were members of the football team ourselves, and maybe they have similiar probelms and would like to join us.

However, we'll make it clear that we are just a sports group, and not interested in setting up a rival football team to the one we've just left. To join us though, they'll have to resign from the football team.

To raise money, we'll go around the pubs collecting for the new group. People might think we were collecting for our old team, especially since the new team's name is in Irish and so was the old team's and the old team's youth group, but's that's not our fault. Sorry I said the new team there, when I meant the new sports group.

If people are giving money to us thinking we're still members of the team we used to belong to, that's their lookout. People should pay more attention to who they are giving money to. Some of our old team mates are in jail, and some people might think we collecting for their families and dependents, but it's not our fault if people get confused by seeing us collecting for an organisation with an Irish name. It's a sports group. Not a football team.

One of founding members left the team he used to play for because they wouldn't pick him to play in the championships, but we don't care about the championships now...

by Definitely Interested! Thu Jul 06, 2006 15:40

I'm also setting up a football team with some of my friends. We used to play for another team, but we didn't like their rules and it wasn't fun any more; we'd lost focus on what a team should be about and we just weren't enjoying the games, so we deided to set up our own team. We won't play in the top league like our own team, we'll play in a lower division, where the emphasis is on taking part, participation, rather than just on winning the championship.

We don't pay our players, though some of them are good enough to be professionals, so we don't have massive expenses. Our football association though is very badly run, and a lot of the teams and players really struggle to afford kit, boots and balls, and don't really get well looked after if they get injured. However, when the football association was set up, there were lots of promises made that the league would be really well run, and all standards of players would be welcome, and they'd all be well looked after and respected. Its not like that though. So we decided we'd get copies of the association's rulebook printed and distribute them ourselves, for free. Printing costs money though, so we ask people for donations when we're doing the distributions, so we can get even more rulebooks printed. People ask us why we're doing it, and we explain clearly as we do it, and there's no confusion. In fact the people seem to think its a great idea, that everyone should know the rules of the association,a nd lots of people now want to join our club. Some of the other, bigger teams though are getting very jealous at the goodwill towards our ideas, and refuse to see that our idea is good for them too. Its just jealousy though, and hopefully they'll come around in the end.

by Lower League Pundit Thu Jul 06, 2006 15:51

What's the name of your team? MK Dons*?

* Martins Kin

by Donnchadh Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:12

I know of a football team. It used to be part of an Irish league. But then it realised that the money wasnt too good in the Irish league so it expelled its self from the Irish league and joined the British league. Its doing very well there, the British league has been greatly strengthened by its joining. And, of course, the money and the fame is great.

by Cormac Eile Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:24

If so I've news for you lads:

1. Bunreacht na hEireann is the ONE and ONLY constitution of this state, voted for and approved by the majority of people in this state time and again since it's inception.
2. Each and every one of you who suggest its overthrow are in breach of your constitutional obligation to be loyal to this state.

You have no mandate.

You are anti-democratic, if you wish to change the constitution and laws of this state, the mechanisms already exist. Your problem is that you will never achieve a large enough support to effect change democratically, so you resort to propaganda and violence.

Go home and read a book instead. You need to flush a whole load of poison from your minds, and learn about real politics.

by Who are ye! Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:35

No politics please Cormac Eile. This is a thread about football!

by jambo Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:51

lets look at it from the " 4 year " revolutionary's perspective. ok we won't set up a football team in our own country or join a football team who want to win the league in our own country (that would be like "so nationalist, sectarian etc etc") but we'll set up a supporters club for say a a football team over in the likes of mexico, where its safe and comfortable to support for the IT rooms of collages and supporters gatherings outside the central bank. when a football team say in Venezuela does well and wins (hopefully) the first of a serious of trophy's we criticize them because they don't play the way we play (very insufficiently I might add)
our supporters mostly middle class college students are only players/supporters for a few years. then have no more time to play ball get nice jobs move back to their nice neighbour hoods and laugh while they reminisce they days when they were crazy supporters (while sipping brandy at dinner party's).......me thinks thats enough football talk:)

by el shea Thu Jul 06, 2006 17:00

Ya see, you know as well as I do there is major problems with the movement. drifting to the center. the eirigi crowd were some of the hardest workers for the movement I knew - very little egos there. now having saying that I still think they made the wrong choice leaving and think their time and energy would be better served within the party.

if you look back on Irish history the most successful periods the momentum for change was pushed by many different groups. not one group in Ireland can claim to be the one whom have all the answers to independence and socalism....1916.....irish citizen army.......irish volunteers......irish republican brotherhood????
maybe its ok to support more than one team whos play good football, but not possible to play for 2 teams

by Bigger Problems Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:12

El shea has it right. All left-wing and Republican groups should be working together on issues of common interest. While the football analogy is interesting it is also somewhat simplistic. Social movements are almost never made up of a single monolithic organisation - they are instead made up of multiple organisations that work together toward a common goal. Such movements may contain traditional political parties, trade unions, campaign groups, womens groups etc all of which support a common objective.

Social movement like the womens liberation movement or the civil rights movement in the US did not contest elections or conform to the norms of poltical parites yet despite this they have succeded in shaping the politcal landscape. More contemporary movements in Mexico, Venezuela and Bolivia do not conform to the traditional political party model but have been hugely succesful.

The football analogy falls down is in the suggestion that simply because a group does not conform to the norms of a footbal club (political party) by contesting elections and squabbling with all other political parties, it must therefore be a supporters club and not a football club. Any group or individual who promotes a socialist republic and who undermines the status quo should be supported and not attacked. What is needed in Ireland is a new social movement made up of all progressive forces working together toward a common goal of a socialist Ireland. Whether these groups add strength to this new movement through elections, campaigning, organising labour etc is totally irrelevant.

I would question the motivations of those who spend so much energy and time attacking those who are using the 1916 Proclamation as a tool to promote the concept of an Idependent and socialist Ireland. So in relation to those who seem so intend on attacking the eirigi initative I have two questions. Whose agenda do they serve? and who pays their wages?

by Cormac Eile Thu Jul 06, 2006 20:30

I was referring to the distribution of the Proclamation, and the discussion that ensued after it.

Anyway, surely you lot should detest soccer as a foreign sport, pumped up with English Pysin (as Scrap Saturday used to put it).

:)

by An Gaeilge Fri Jul 07, 2006 09:48

Skeptical said,
"People might think we were collecting for our old team, especially since the new team's name is in Irish and so was the old team's and the old team's youth group"
And
"but it's not our , fault if people get confused by seeing us collecting for an organisation with an Irish name"
And
"You think People might think we were collecting for our old team, especially since the new team's name is in Irish and so was the old team's and the old team's youth group"

Are you serious? You think that people are confused by the fact that eirigi is an irish word which they might be confusing with another irish word? Have you ever heard of Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein or Fine Gael? People might get them all confused because they're all Irish names and vote for the wrong party. At this rate Trocaire could take power at the next election, perhaps in a coalition with Bord na Mona!

by Flynn - [email protected] Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:04 agrescon at agrescon dot nl 0031102102055

Cormac Eile, should be commended on his grasp of the issue, the signing away of the mineral rights, by Politicians for the benefit of Offshore Banks, and Foreign Governments was illegal under Irish Constitutional Law, and Under International Law. Since all these so called agreements were made before during or after, the Republic of Eire joined the European Union of Maffia Nations, makes them fit for a Heavy Round of Constitutional Law in the Hague. An even Heavier Round in the Irish Constitutional Courts, here im adressing the vast Oil and Gas deposits that will ensure Eires Childrens future. A second Pertinent point is Eires Nuetrality, Oil and Gas is a Military Weapon Co joined pipelines, break that Nuetrality, and is contrapunctual to the Constitution, more so if the said Reserves are Foreign Owned Managed and Run. What is now required of all Irishmen and Women. is to Recruit, the best Learned, Constitutional Lawyers, Judges, Politicians, and People of Eire to engage in the Issue , of all shades of Green, and Together Stand on the Rock of the Constitution, what my Grandfather stood for. The other issue is the Voting Issue of migrant workers,if they are Company placemen should they be allowed to Vote Away the Constitution of the Republic ? Flynn O Flynn.

by Bean DeValera Tue Aug 22, 2006 20:24

Is it true that Tom Hartley is one of the founding members of this new group. Tom has a long history of working within the republican movement and will make a great leader. good on ya.