12 Days Left For Tookie Williams

by Insurrection Thu Dec 01, 2005 02:06

http://www.tookie.com

http://www.savetookie.org

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20051121161230999

by Michael R. Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:14

We are still no better than animals. No, we are worse, cause we kill with a conscience. Will we ever evolve?

by Michael R. Thu Dec 01, 2005 15:24

For those who don't know, a good film with Jamie Foxx, based on Stan "Tookie" Williams, is available on video.

http://www.blackflix.com/articles/redemption.html

by tom Fri Dec 02, 2005 02:58

hey tookie, dont do the crime if you cant do the time....how many people did that bastard help kill directly and indirectly by starting the crips! he is no political prisoner

by Michael R. Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:12

From the BBC yesterday:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4486178.stm

"Behind him he will leave five Nobel peace prize nominations, a letter from President George W Bush commending him on his work, and a movie portraying his life called, simply, Redemption."

What more does one have to do? Even Schwarzenegger. seems to at least be compemplating the moral dilema of this a bit more than some of the people here:-

"It will be a very difficult decision and one he says he dreads."

But I respect the opinions here and those who think he should be killed/murdered. 64% of Americans still favor the death penalty.

Clemency has not been granted in 40 years in the state of California. I think it is now time to grant at least one.

by Michael Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:16

.

by Michael R. Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:27

Last one!!:-

Alastair Leithead's report on Stanley "Tookie" Williams will be broadcast by Newsnight on BBC Two on Friday, 2 December, 2005.

http://online.entertainmentireland.ie/online/tv/browsetv.asp?whichday=tday&channel=BBC2&TimeofDay=AllTimes&abstract=ON

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=today&service_id=4224&filename=20051202/20051202_2230_4224_58787_30

by RUMPOLE Fri Dec 02, 2005 21:13

This is another one that the woefully inept US criminal justice system will despatch before Christmas.

They like the death penalty in the USA and it is their view of what a society with evolving standards of decency should consider itself entitled to do.

Their love affair with capital punishment puts the USA on a par with China but with some significant differences ;


1. In the USA you can get hamburgers with fries before they do you in.


2. In the USA they do not execute human beings with names. They put to death "inmates" whose names are mentioned with minimal frequency. This aids the process of depersonalising the process and is a perfect complement to the medicalisation of the execution process.


3. In China they stick a sign around your neck and execute you in public with a rifle bullet through the heart fired through your back. They then send your mammy a bill for the bullet. I wonder if it would be possible to get sponsorship from some US corporation for the price of the ammo ?


4. Mind you, the Americans do have some sense of humour. The places where they execute their prisoners are usually called CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES. Well done USA, this has to be the ultimate form of correction.......


Some of us Europeans are seen as quaint and old fashioned by the folks across the Atlantic pond. We are past masters at the art of execution and the various methodologies were utterly vile in some places. However, we have given up that old nonsense. We even have a convention that effectively outlaws capital punishment. It is based on a concept known as human rights. Those guys in the USA should try it some time------------------

by lol Sat Dec 03, 2005 01:45

maybe we should send him to the taleban so they could chop his head off in the football pitch for entertainment

by gay geori Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:42 gg at bearla dot ie

1,000 criminals have been executed in the USA since the restoration of the death penalty was democratically decided in 1976. If you're against it, fair enough, but you have to acknowledge this is not a US issue - but one that covers countries like India, Cuba, and Iran too. Unfortunately we never hear about executions in Cuba. Nor do we hear muich about China (PRC) who has executed at least 20,000 people between 1990 and 2001, other than some dinner party contributions about who pays for the bullets. Nor do we hear much about executions in Islamic countries, a point very much worth pointing out, particularly given that Ireland should be offering itself as a place of refuge from those fleeing such practices under Sharia Law (stoning of women etc), or gays fleeing execution from the Palestinian AUthority. But then, highlighting that, would mean you're open to the fact that Israel has only executed one person - Nazi Eichman (so FGM is much more politically acceptable for the lights of Alible Smyth, Ivana Bacik, et al to highlight).

However, we hear about executions in the US all the time .Why is that? Leftist Anti-American bias or is it because the issue IS covered in the US media? My experience, having actually, lived there and in Ireland, is that it's both. The publicised issues in the US are hijacked by the usual suspects outside for political purposes. And the fact that the BBC are now in on the act is just typical. I expect RTE to follow soon with the god-awful Little and O'Callaghan adding their plummy outrage to the issue shortly.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/02/MNGSNG1SQD1.DTL

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/02/national/a040800S97.DTL


Whatever way you look at it, it's not a laughing matter...

by Joe Public Sat Dec 03, 2005 15:19

He got nominated for 5 nobel peace prizes? A letter from a president? And a movie?

George Bush has been nominated for a peace prize.

Hitler had presidents applaud him.

Hitler, Stalin and most of the worlds evil gits have films based on their lives.

Whats your point?

he killed people, far more than he was convicted off. If he showed genuine remorce it would be something, if he apologised to the families it would be something. He is guilty and deserves punishment.

Personally I dont favour the death penalty but lets not make a hero our off a murderer.

by Michael R. Mon Dec 05, 2005 13:34

Take your points Joe Public. And of course not only did Kissinger get nominated, he actually won the Nobel Peace Prize!! Nevertheless I think Tookie got nominated for doing some genuinely very good work.

The non apology to the families is concerning indeed though. I, and I think many others are not asking for a hero to be made out of him. Rather, becuase of all he as done since his terrible acts, that he just not be murdered but left to serve a life long prison scentence.

by Andy Mon Dec 05, 2005 23:53

Tookie, for all the accounts I read, is a cold blooded killer. The fact that he has "redemed" himself is encouraging but let's be honest, this is one hard core gang banging murdering miscreant. I'm not against capital punishment in all cases, only when there is significant questions as to guilt. There doesn't appear to be much here. And to be honest, this guy could kill again. Guards and other prisoners could be killed, he could escape as he has already planned to do, and he threatened the jurors at his trial.

by big john Tue Dec 06, 2005 00:34

If we are going to execute people, get it over with quick or forget about it. Giving this guy time to redeem himself only makes the whole execution thing harder.

This should serve as an example to our justice system to kill people before they have a chance to present us with this sort of moral dilemma. I say if we can't legal execute the condemned criminal in the first three years after sentencing, then forget it, it's too late, he/she automatically gets life.

by R. Isible Tue Dec 06, 2005 02:14

QUOTE: If we are going to execute people, get it over with quick or forget about it.

Didn't Lord Lane say something like that about the Birmingham Six? That if the brits had not abolished hanging there "wouldn't be all this trouble now".

Wise words in mouths of fools do oft themselves belie etc.

by Leon (Personal Capacity) Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:01

Tookie is unrepentant. With all the evil that he's done he should long for death.
The fact that he doesn't proves that he should be killed.
Fry Him.

by Fifi Thu Dec 08, 2005 15:08

I was amazed at the ignorance portrayed in some of the above comments. I have been trying to educate myself a bit about Tookie and while I haven't seen the movie or read much of the websites, this man did apologise for his misdeeds and his actions since being incarcerated show a deep repentance and an urge to redeem himself and others. While he has commited crimes, he did not commit the crimes he was convicted for - the whole point of a justice system is to promote justice which he did not get in his trial, and the real killers are left loose, which doesn't provide justice for the victims or their families. The ghettos, poverty and marginalisation of black Americans, which led to his gang formation, are still rife today. Economic slavery has replaced the shackles of old. Before you condemn someone you should at least make some effort to understand their circumstances and their culture.

by Rasta Thu Dec 08, 2005 16:29 mnaarendorp1 at eircom dot net 0860890058

I'm not agaist the death sentence. But think this man saved more lives than he took and may possibly save even more if he's let live.

If Tookie has to die, than even more has america's president for sending his soldiers murdering raping and torturing people all over the world. (covering it up with war on terrorism and weapons of mass destruction bullshit thinking everybody is either as stupid as the dumb ** who believe him or as evil as the shrewd parasites that depend on his policies.)

Has Tookie murdered people? yes
Does he have to be punished? yes
But in my humble opinion there are 3 reasons for such a harsh punishment:
no Correction because you are trying to kill the man, there's not much to be corrected after that
Protection of society, revenge, and to set an example.
I dont think he still really posesses a threath to society
I dont think the example thing works in the usa because the judicial system is unfair (if it was fair it should have arrested and tried the president a long time ago) so it sets no good example.
The only reason why you could justifyably kill him is in my huble opinion because of revenge. But I agree that they should have done it earlier. Now he has done alot to be granted at least live in my humble opinion.
But that should be left for his victims family to decide.
In the meanwhile let bush arm himself with a lot of bodyguards because there is quite a few people waiting to take revenge on him for the innocent lives he took...
Wish ye could hang that bastard!!!

Oh yeah and if ye want to come arrest me for encouraging terrorism im living at 6 wilton manor in cork. Your welcome for a cuppa...

Martin Naarendorp

by Mark Thu Dec 08, 2005 17:11

For every person he killed, we should bring him back to life after we kill him and kill him again.

Oh wait a minute, that still would not bring back the people he killed.
Killing is wrong if it is war, abortion, or death penalty it is wrong and does no good.

Plus, I think sitting in jail for the rest of my life would be worse anyways. One way or another he will someday die, why let him out of time served in jail prior to that?

by Mark Sat Dec 10, 2005 01:02

Please sign the on-line petition and e-mail Gov Schwarzenegger.
THis man can save many lives by helping youth stay out of gangs.
We are not asking that he be let out of jail, only that he not be killed.

http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

Sample letter, feel free to cut and paste


Dear Governor Schwarzenegger:

Please grant clemency to death row inmate Stanley Tookie Williams. He is helping to save troubled youth across the world. I know that you, Governor Schwarzenegger, are also an advocate for helping troubled youth through your own programs.



e-mail for CA Gov

[email protected]

by Mark Sat Dec 10, 2005 01:12

You wrote, "64% of Americans still favor the death penalty"

That artical says 64% of those in California support it, not America. I have a hard time believing it is even that high in CA.

I am sure it is not that high in the States, but not 100% sure.

I find the death penalty almost as bad as I find abortion

by Fifi Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:42

For anyone who is reading these comments and unsure, please go to the savetookie website and read the 2 page fact sheet. If you then believe Tookie is innocent or at least deserves his sentence to be commuted, please sign the on-line petition.

by Sandy Mon Dec 12, 2005 22:10

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied clemency to Stanley Tookie Williams.

I wonder how many of the dead people will come back to life after they kill him and how many people won't get his help

by Fifi Tue Dec 13, 2005 09:50

Rest in peace Tookie. May your good works keep influencing people around the globe to promote justice and equality and may your death not have been in vain. Somehow I don't think I'll ever be able to watch an Arnold movie ever again.

by T Tue Dec 13, 2005 13:03

Here's an interesting analysis piece from the World Socialist Website on the death of Tookie Williams:

This extract nicely sums up the spectacle that it created in the US:

"..The horrifying event, replete with television shots of the awaiting death chamber, was a testament to the backwardness of American society, and the degeneracy of the US ruling elite and its political and media servants..."

by gay geori Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:31 gg at bearla dot ie

No problem with that given his crimes, but the lack of protest over Clarence Ray Allen execution says more about the Save Tookie..

Where were the mass protests. No coverage in Irish Times, Indymedia, Village Magazine. Where was Snoop and Jesse Jackson?

Which raises the question: Was the community cry for clemency for Williams because he was a black man, or was it because the death penalty is immoral, inhumane and cruel?

"Joss Eldredge, 55, a San Francisco dog walker who showed up to protest Monday night, said the turnout was "hypocritical" compared with the showing for Williams, a former gang leader and convicted murderer who had claimed redemption through his antiviolence writings. He was executed Dec. 13.

"Clearly, a number of people were here last time because of Williams' celebrity,'' Eldredge said. "It bothers me quite a bit that not as many people are here today, but it's the same death penalty.''

See also:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/08/INGODGHE4H1.DTL&hw=Allen&sn=072&sc=057

"Black Californians who supported clemency for Williams need to re-examine their reasons for wanting Williams to live. Was it because he was a black man? Was it because he co-founded the Crips? Was it because of his anti-gang and anti-drug work? Or was it because we abhor the death penalty?"

by SH Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:02

The Tookie Williams campaign was big because of the redemption that he displayed while in prison. He was nominated for a Nobel Peace price and worked to prevent kids falling into the same trap as he had, it appears Clarence Ray Allen had none of this. You seem in your first line to support his execution "No problem with that given his crimes" so your protests over the Tookie campaign are hypocritical. The save Tookie campaign was about one man and not neccessarily about abolishing the death penalty. As a quick scan of the Save Tookie website shows that they were protesting over the execution of what they thought was an innocent man.