Who is Sean Garland?

by their too in 1969 Tue Oct 11, 2005 21:49

I did not go with the provos,but have no time for Garland,jail is to good for him,after all he done,turned his back on us all.What about the H Blocks.

by SFM Tue Oct 11, 2005 23:19

The Hunger Strikes were a Catholic v Protestant issue not Left v Right. There is nothing Left wing in wanting a united Ireland and straving to death. That is not to say we must not admire the bravery of what the ten hunger stirkers did, but understand the reality of what happened.

Still why drag up 10 dead political prisoners of a violent conflict to shame another politcal prisoners?

by Barry Tue Oct 11, 2005 23:36

They certainly were not a catholic vs protestant issue , and at the very least were simply a human rights issue . It was purely between the prisoners and the British cabinet and no-one else . The issue was political status for political prisoners , not a damn thing about religion . Any demands won by the hungerstrikers were to be given to loyalist prisoners too as they pointed out at the time . Shamefully garland rallied to Thatchers aid and called them common criminals . He said there was nothing political about either their cause or their offences .

Poetic justice today to see him accused of being a common criminal and yet he claims its political persecution . And pathetic in the extreme to see him now promoting his revolutionary republican credentials when he made a career out of full scale collaboration with British administrations for the last 35 years .

Reminds me of what Bobby Sands prophesised , a young man Garland denounced as a criminal even on his agonisisng death . "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" . Theres plently laughing at Garland now and hes only himself to blame . His one time friends have turned on him now hes of no further use . No sympathy at all .

by kintama Wed Oct 12, 2005 00:31

Nothing is too good for the representatives of the working classes. Spotlight on BBC tonight stated that when Sean visited Moscow in what they claim was superdollar business he stayed in a $500 a night suite.
Joe Mc Cann must be spinning in his grave.
John Lowry, clearly taking his position as spokesperson on international affairs very seriously, claimed the arrest was due to Workers Party opposition to the war in Iraq. Damn securocrats are everywhere.
Still the publicity can't do Mr Lowry any harm and he can expect his vote to increase to double figues in the next local elections.

by SFM Wed Oct 12, 2005 01:05

The romance of dying for Ireland and belief in everything the media and establishment say, Sean and Official Republicanism really was wasting it's time. Good night and rest with your saints and martyrs. History does not record what the nine masscared in Teebane said as they bled to death in a South Armagh ditch, more is the pity.

by Barry Wed Oct 12, 2005 02:14

For a start they were killed in Co Tyrone many miles from South Armagh . Although its possible a few may have landed in that area . Because its very doubtful they said anything after they ran over a 500lb landmine .

And I doubt Bobby Sands who lived naked in his own urine and excrement for 5 years with no contact with the outside world thought there was anything romantic about starving to death .

However it didnt make him a common criminal as sean garland claimed for years .

by section 31 Wed Oct 12, 2005 02:24

Yeah well ...right...

heres just a wee bit on why we shouldnt trust the establishment media in Ireland .

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2001/05/06/story510533928.asp

Its been controlled by sticks for the last 35 years .

by One who came unstuck - Ex-stickies Anonymous Wed Oct 12, 2005 03:21

First they came for the Provos, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Provo;
Then they came for the IRSP, and I did not speak out—
because I was not in the IRSP;
Then they came for the RIRA, and I did not speak out—
because I was not in the RIRA;
Now they have come for me—
and they all hate me so much they will not speak out for me

by saddam hussein Wed Oct 12, 2005 04:09

And I thought I was the most hated stalinist type corrupt dictator in the world .

Ah well , at least sean is seeing his dream of workers unity coming to fruition . Pity theyre all united in their hatred of him but there you go .

by SH Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:39

Sean South was a catholic reactionary who was involved in anti semitic activities. Hardly a revolutionary comrade for Garland! But of course Garland is a hypocrite how a true socialist could ally themselves with North Korea is beyond my comprehension

by StalinWatch Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:41

Could this thread be a diversion from the thread below on which many juicy titbits about Garland have been revealed?

by Korea News Service Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:58

Details on Garland’s many visits to North Korea, taken from the (North) Korea News Service (http://www.kcna.co.jp – yes, run out of Japan because North Korea hasn’t managed to set up internet in the country)

Worker's Party and people of Korea lauded
Pyongyang, April 27, 1999 (KCNA) -- The Worker's Party and people of Korea have built a country of which they should be proud before the world despite aggressive maneuvers and threat by the imperialists, said Sean Garland, former general secretary of the Communist Party of Ireland, in his notes on the visit to the DPRK which was published on April 5.
The Korean people are as ever fully confident of the leadership of Kim Jong Il, General Secretary of the Worker's Party of Korea, he wrote, adding: The DPRK, despite all hardships including flood, tidal wave, draught and damage of cultivated land, has entered a stage to successfully occupy targets in all fields by its own efforts.
The U.S. policy to stifle the Korean economy through continued military actions will never succeed. The miraculous successes made by the Korean people prove that they can successfully frustrate the U.S. threat and reckless aggression. The Worker's Party and people of Korea will defeat the enemy by force of single-hearted unity and build the best socialist country.

Three-point charter for Korea's reunification supported
Pyongyang, March 20, 2000 (KCNA) -- Personages of political parties and organizations of different countries and international and regional organizations participated in the international signature campaign to support the three-point charter for the reunification of Korea in response to the call of the meeting of the executive committee of the International Liaison Committee for Reunification and Peace in Korea which was held in Paris in February.
The signature paper was signed by Blasco Hugo Fernandes, chairman of the Democratic Intervention of Portugal= Sean Garland, former general secretary of the Worker's Party of Ireland= Cris Coleman, spokesman for the central committee of the Revolutionary Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)= Ann Rogers, delegate of the New Communist Party of Great Britain= Anders Kristensen, secretary of the Nordic Cooperation Committee for Friendship and Solidarity with the Korean People= the chairman of the Swiss Committee for Supporting Korea's Reunification= the general secretary of the Luxemburg-Korea Friendship Association= the general secretary of the Ireland-Korea Friendship Association= the chairman of the French Support and Action Committee for Korea's Independent and Peaceful Reunification= Guy Dupre, secretary general of the International Liaison Committee for Reunification and Peace in Korea= Robert Charvin, general secretary of the International Commission of Jurists for Democracy and Human Rights in South Korea= Willy Burgeon, chairman of the Wallon district council of Belgium= and Paulette Pierson, professor of the Libre University in Brussels, Belgium.
Considering the Korean people's three-point charter to be the most just and reasonable proposal and way of Korea's reunification, they sign the paper in support of the charter and in demand of the immediate withdrawal of the U.S. troops from South Korea so that the Korean people can solve their destinies independently and a durable peace be ensured on the Korean peninsula, it noted.

Enlarged meeting of CILRECO executive committee
Pyongyang, February 26, 2001 (KCNA) -- An enlarged meeting of the executive committee of the International Liaison Committee for Reunification and Peace in Korea (CILRECO) was held in Paris on February 17. The meeting analyzed the situation prevailing on the Korean peninsula after the historic Pyongyang meeting and the adoption of the north-south joint declaration, reviewed the work done by the CILRECO last year and discussed its action program for this year.
Guy Dupre, secretary general of the CILRECO, in his report said that the inter-Korean summit and the north-south joint declaration provided thanks to leader Kim Jong Il's plan and resolution for national reunification were an event of worldwide significance which greatly contributed not only to the cause of independent reunification of Korea but also to global peace and security.
The reporter said that the movement for solidarity with the Korean people was vigorously waged and new solidarity organizations were formed in different countries last year to further raise the function and role of the CILRECO.
He indicated the main direction of the international solidarity movement to open up a decisive phase of Korea's reunification this year, and stressed that the CILRECO would wage more vigorous international solidarity movement for Korea's reunification to mark the year 2002 on which falls the 25th anniversary of the CILRECO.
At the meeting a letter to Kim Jong Il was adopted.
The meeting adopted the action program for 2001 of the CILRECO and an appeal to governments, political parties and organizations of countries and international organizations.
It is noted in the action program that the international liaison committee will intensify its activities to ensure a more vigorous international solidarity movement for Korea's reunification.
At the meeting Sean Garland, chairman of the Workers' Party of Ireland, Robert Charvin, secretary general of the International Committee of Jurists for Democracy and Human Rights in South Korea, and Paulette Pierson, professor of the Liberal University of Brussels in Belgium, were elected honorary chairmen of the CILRECO, and Dogu Ferincek, chairman of the Workers' Party of Turkey, and Juan Jose Leon, chairman of the Cuban Committee for Supporting Korea's Reunification, elected vice-chairmen.

Irish party delegation pays respects to Kim Il Sung
Pyongyang, May 7, 2001 (KCNA) -- A delegation of the Irish Workers' Party led by its President Seon Garland visited the Kumsusan Memorial Palace where President Kim Il Sung lies in state for perpetuity to pay respects to him yesterday. The head of the delegation wrote in the visitor's book that the exploits performed by Kim Il Sung, a great man, will always be remembered by the Korean people and the progressive people of the world.
The delegation arrived here on May 5.

Gift to Kim Jong Il from Irish party
Pyongyang, May 10, 2001 (KCNA) -- Leader Kim Jong Il received a gift from the Workers' Party of Ireland. The gift was handed to an official concerned by Sean Garland, chairman of the party who is leading the visiting delegation of the party.

Kim Yong Nam meets foreign guests
Pyongyang, May 11, 2001 (KCNA) -- Kim Yong Nam, President of the presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly of the DPRK, separately met and had friendly conversations with Thomas E. Leavey, director general of the Universal Postal Union, and Sean Garland, chairman of the Workers' Party of Ireland, at the Mansudae Assembly Hall today. Saying that the establishment of diplomatic relations between many European countries and the DPRK proves the validity and vitality of the foreign policy of the DPRK government, Sean Garland noted that the early May DPRK visit of the top-level delegation of the European union commanded welcome from many countries.

U.S. hostile policy towards DPRK denounced abroad
Pyongyang, June 27, 2001 (KCNA) -- Personages and organizations of different countries released statements on the occasion of the 1st anniversary of the June 15 North-South Joint Declaration. Seon Garland, president of the Irish Workers' Party who is also honorary president of the International Liaison Committee for Reunification and Peace in Korea, in his statement said that the joint declaration is a historic landmark indicating the principle and way for Korea's reunification.
The progressive people of the world have highly appreciated the declaration, unanimously recognizing that it was provided by the strong will, principle, broad magnanimity and bold decision of leader Kim Jong Il determined to implement the instructions of President Kim Il Sung for national reunification at any cost, he said.
Noting that the peace process on the Korean peninsula is in a serious crisis due to the U.S. hardline policy, he said that he joined all the progressives and anti-war peaceloving fighters of the world in strongly denouncing that policy.
He called on all the peace-loving people of the world to pay due attention to the serious crisis on the Korean peninsula caused by the U.S. anti-DPRK hardline policy and actively join in the struggle to check and frustrate it.
The Bangladesh-Korea Friendship Association and the centre of Indian trade unions in their statements expressed their full support to the joint declaration and strongly urged the bush administration to do things helpful to its implementation.

by pat c Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:10

heres the links to the BBC stuff.

Heres a little info:

"Leader of 'Official IRA' in forgery plot

An Irish republican leader is responsible for flooding the UK money markets with near-perfect counterfeit money, it has been claimed. The BBC's Panorama programme has traced the supply of millions of fake US dollars to Sean Garland, a leader of the former paramilitary group, the Official IRA.

Panorama also reveals that the profit from passing the currency is used to fund the republican group - which split with the better known Provisional IRA in 1970. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3822005.stm

Heres the transcript of the Panorama programme:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/superdollar.txt

by Dublin Exile Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17

Its typical of Barry to take a profound and aspriational statement from Bobby Sands and use it in a narrow and nasty way about a political opponent. Sands dream for our children was that they would live free and happy, not that others would end their days in a prison cell.
Barrys use of this quote is poisonous and warped.

by Tom Shelley Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17

In 1977 when Garland was OIRA Chief of Staff, the OIRA killed Seamus Costello of the IRSP.

I should explain that I am NOT aligned with the IRSP. Between their almost complete lack of popular support (I imagine they'd be lucky to get 1% across the North), the chance that there is some truth to the allegations against them about criminality and sectarianism, and their FREQUENT feuding, I do not support the RSM today.

But as far as I can tell, in the late seventies and early eighties they were an amazing organization. And Seamus Costello was an amazing socialist and republican. There's a lot of information on him at http://irsm.org/irsp/costello/

The Officials killed him simply because after he was expelled, he took a large chunk of the Officials membership away from them and their reformist/stalinist/collaborationist policies.

Tom

by JJ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:24

You've got a real bee in your bonnet. Just like the Spotlight programme last night (which was a repeat), you are posting stuff that you have posted on another thread. Get a life. (Or at the very least tell us what is driving your obsession on this subject?)

by pat c Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:54

How is it an obsession to make info available? On reflection I reckon Stalinwatch is right, this thread was started up because the sticks were getting worried about what had come out on the previous one.

Well you're not going to be able to run away from it.

Speaking of Spotlight there was some new stuff on it. Must track down the links.

thanks for reminding me. ;)

by record Wed Oct 12, 2005 14:03

but in the last days, someone has written a biography of Garland.
very good.

by StalinWatch Wed Oct 12, 2005 14:12

"Chiefs of Staff of the Official Irish Republican Army, 1969-)

Cathal Goulding December 1969 1972 [36]
Seán Garland 1998 [37]

36 Ed Moloney, A Secret History of the IRA, Harmondsworth: Penguin, 2003. ISBN 014101041X

37 This allegation is contained in: Liam Clarke, "Garland arrested in US forgery hunt, Sunday Times, 9 October 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRA_Chiefs_of_Staff

by General Garland Wed Oct 12, 2005 14:54

the Sunday Times knows a chiefs of staff when it sees one.

Isn't it ironic, though, that the chiefs of staff of the Provisionals and Officials hit the headlines in the same week. I wonder will General Garland and Slab Murphy set up a support group? Is General's current whereabouts in County Down far from Hackballscross?

by StalinWatch Wed Oct 12, 2005 15:40

Maybe they could organise a General Assembly.

by The Dollars of Hill Street Wed Oct 12, 2005 16:07

but the first thing on the agenda would have to be the split.

by from Wed Oct 12, 2005 16:37

this
is
don't be an ira chief of staff. People say things about you. & they get you when you're ancient.

by Observor Wed Oct 12, 2005 17:11

"OIRA is headed by John Graham, who
formerly ran the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis."

Thats what it says here.

by Wallace Wed Oct 12, 2005 17:45

"Sean faces 20 years imprisoment in the US."

A journalist from the Washington Post was on Spotlight and said that Garland could face up to 30 years in jail if convicted.

by Cynic Wed Oct 12, 2005 18:00

In the article which starts off this discussion in says the OIRA guns were silent from its ceasefire until the 1975 feud with the PIRA. But the OIRA killed a British soldier in 1973. The last time the OIRA lost volunteers killed in action by the British army was in 1974 when 2 OIRA volunteers were shot dead by the Brits as they were planting a roadside bomb.

No mention of Larry White either. He was murdered by the OIRA in 1975. Or of Seamus Costello, murdered by the OIRA in 1977.

They also seem to have forgotten their 1977 feud with the PIRA.

by pat c Wed Oct 12, 2005 18:30

The two OIRA Volunteers were in fact murdered by the British Army AFTER they were captured. Three OIRA Volunteers died in 1973. The sticks may want to airbrush them out of history but they deserve to be remembered.

15 May 1974 Colman Rowntree (24) Catholic
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot shortly after being captured while preparing land mine, Ballyholland, near Newry, County Down.

15 May 1974 Martin McAlinden (23) Catholic
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot shortly after being captured while preparing land mine, Ballyholland, near Newry, County Down

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1974.html

09 April 1973 Anthony Hughes (20) Catholic
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot while moving arms from car outside house, Culdee Terrace, Armagh.

14 April 1973 Robert Millen (23) Protestant
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot from passing car while standing in McClure Street, off Ormeau Road, Belfast.

Patrick Bracken (27) Catholic
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot from passing car shortly after leaving cafe, Falls Road, Belfast.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1973.html

by pat c Wed Oct 12, 2005 18:44

Also in 1973:

07 April 1973James McGerrigan (17) Catholic
Status: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot near his home, Windmill Hill, Armagh.

by Cynic Wed Oct 12, 2005 19:29

You left out the juicy bits. Thanks for the handy link though. Amazing to see that the OIRA killed civilians who worked for the RUC and Army.

21 June 1973 David Walker (16) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Found shot in entry off O'Neill Street, Falls, Belfast.

25 September 1973 Seamus Larkin (34) Catholic Status: ex-Official Irish Republican Army (xOIRA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Found shot in laneway, Flagstaff, near Killeen, County Armagh. Internal OIRA dispute.

11 January 1974 Cecilia Byrne (53) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Civilian employed by British Army (BA). Killed by bomb attached to car which exploded shortly after leaving Ebrington British Army (BA) base, Waterside, Derry.

11 January 1974 John Dunne (46) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Civilian employed by British Army (BA). Killed by bomb attached to car which exploded shortly after leaving Ebrington British Army (BA) base, Waterside, Derry.

13 January 1974 Christopher Daly (43) Catholic Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Found shot in entry, off Balholm Drive, Ardoyne, Belfast.

02 June 1974 Paul Tinnelly (34) Catholic
Status: ex-Official Irish Republican Army (xOIRA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Shot at his home, The Square, Rostrevor, County Down. Internal OIRA dispute.

06 September 1974 William Elliott (48) Protestant Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Shot during armed robbery at Ulster Bank, The Diamond, Rathcoole, Newtownabbey, County Antrim.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/index.html

by WP Watch Wed Oct 12, 2005 23:36

The above show that the oft cited 1972 ceasefire by the OIRA is pure fantasy. The opening text of this discussion is WP propaganda through and through. Implying that Garland was worried about "working casualties" in the 1950s is ahistorical to the extreme. If he thought in those categories, he wouldn't have been in the 1950s IRA and running around with Seán South's body on his back.

Furthermore, there are claims that Garland opposed the calling of an OIRA ceasefire in 1972. That was largely the idea of Goulding and Mac Giolla and was opposed by Garland and Seamus Costello. As the matter was debated, Garland moved switched over to the Goulding and Mac Giolla camp and later turned on Costello.

Interesing to read that rallies will be held for Seánín's release. I doubt many will turn up, there's far too much schadenfreude at his arrest by a police force he's supported for 20 years. Also, will the WP vet rally participants? Surely they wouldn't like the rallies to be used by all the old enemies of the WP such as the "green fascists", "ultra leftists", and the "for god and country nationalists"?

And this is something I dug out to remind people the kind of stuff Garland was writing about in 1980 (all mistakes in the original):

"H. Block - The Socialist Prespective"
Seán Garland, Sinn Féin The Workers Party, Dec 1980.

"The attitude adopted by the Communist Party is perhaps, in Irish Nationalist terms, possibly the most difficult to understand and the most bizarre. The Communist Party has adopted over the past few years a policy of conditional support for the Provisionals. They have moved near and nearer (sic) to an ultra-leftist position; all crimes/blame is laid at Britain/Protestant feet, these are reactionaries, the Provisionals and their allies are the goodies, the progressives. The Communist Party has taken the side of a right wing Nationalist organisation which is at times manipulated by the ultra-left, an organisation which has no popular support among the Irish people and which, apart from the emotional support that the hunger strike will generate, is in the main detested and reviled by the mass of the people who do not want anything to do with the aims and activities of the Provisionals."

by Barry Thu Oct 13, 2005 00:55

A number of officials carried on operating regardless of Garland or any of their leaders told them

I was talking to republicans in south down recently and they maintain that many of the attacks on crown forces attributed to the provisionls there in the early 70s were actually carried out by local sticks on their own initiative , who then let the still tiny provies claim them .

I know of another occasion in the north armagh area when the brits had 2 provos cornered one night . A local stickie lifted a gun and went to their aid . The confusion he created allowed the provos to escape but he was caught himself and did a serious amount of time as a result of his bravery .

Even in 1975 some still took part in joint ops with the provos regardless of leadership decrees . Very good account of this here

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/photos/murphy/murphy03.htm#6

I was even talking to Brendan "Darkie " Hughes one day in Belfast and he introduced me to his lifelong friend who was still a stick ( ORM). This was despite the bitter and deadly feuds in the lower falls that claimed the life of Charlie Hughes , Darkies friend , mentor and relative .

However most of the decent enough sticks that Ive ever heard of seem to have told Garland to get stuffed in 98 and joined the ORM . Basically any Ive ever talked to over the years despise him and the WP with a passion .

by Eoin Harass - Catholics against the ethnic cleansin of Irish Protestants Thu Oct 13, 2005 01:08

My friend and comrade, Sean Garland, has got himself in a bit of bother, mostly through an excess of zeal in applying Aristotelian principles to the political economy.
But his decades long effort in obeying the source of true authority will now stand him in good stead in this mistaken effort by my friends, the Washington neo-cons, to extradite him.
Let me explain. Mr. Garland, very much because of my superior arguments has been the bane of Provo fascism for decades. He has cooperated and worked closely with the true sources of authority in these islands-I refer, of course, to the Police forces, North and South, the Intelligence services, and that proud Army , in which many a great Irishman has served and now in the sands of Iraq is heroically engaged in bringing democracy to Islam.
To extradite such a man, because of his inadequate understanding of liberal economics would be unconscionable.
The privatization revolution begun by Reagan and Thatcher, and now bearing fruition for us all in the Celtic Tiger, is being continued today by Ahern , by Rabitte and by McDowell. Mr Garland was just doing his bit in his own inimitable way.
Just as the elimination of Seamas Costello and what he stood for, showed Anglo-American authority that Ireland was ripe for neo-liberal progress, so now too Mr.Garland has mistakenly pushed privatization just a little too far.
The U.S is not yet ready for the privatization of currency issuance. And certainly not for the privatization of dollar issuance.
. Mr. Garland erred only in his excessive application of the principles of neo liberal economics . This is surely the end result and logical outcome of the policies he and his party has pursued for several decades.
This morning as I spoke with a Protestant neighbor( I speak regularly with Protestants in West Cork, some of the few left who were not ethnically cleansed in the 1920s) and as we shared tea in the Deja Vue cafe in Ballinspittle he implored me to intervene with my neo-con friends in Washington, to put in a good word for Mr. Garland, because, as he put it , it was possibly due to my influence that Mr. Garland was now in this fix.
Comrade Garland can rest assured. For such a man to be renditioned in Guantanamo could have serious effects on the prospects of a FG/Labour coalition. Garland knows too much about Rabbitte and about your truly to be handed over. I have influence in Washington and I shall use it on my old comrades behalf.

by keera Thu Oct 13, 2005 04:23

barry, there is at least 2 members of oira who after death were "adopted" onto the pira roll of honour. didn't the last death of a oira volunteer take place while he was planting a bomb in tipperary? not counting fueds, but an actual attack. just wondering.

by seeking info Thu Oct 13, 2005 05:00

what was group A and B,when did they come about,are they still there,has any one got the document,will Garland show us it.

by Annoyed in Athens Thu Oct 13, 2005 09:13

I'm an Irishman living in Athens. Last Monday evening on my way home from my poorly-paid job, I had to change buses in the centre of town. While waiting for the bus, I heard the drone of a loudspeaker regularly interpersed by chanting. It meant only one thing - the Communist Party of Greece (KKE), that band of unreconstructed Stalinists, was staging another demonstration and the buses wouldn't be running.

I didn't fancy hanging around at the busstop, I headed towards the KKE demonstration. What did I find: same old, same old. Some guy ranting and raving about some issue or another. My Greek isn't great but I could make out a few words - staple KKE terminology like "antipeople policies" and such rubbish. The did pick up the word "Irlandia" a few times but I thought the speaker might have been criticising the ocassional obcession of the ruling parties here with the Celtic Tiger model. There was about 500 people at the event - all members of the KKE and carrying party flags that had been handed out to them from a van by the mother party.

KKE demonstrations here are so common that nobody takes much notice. The sight of a few hundred sheep-like demonstrators chanting slogan read out by someone in a van. I didn't take much notice of what the slogans were, nor did I bother to read the leaflet that some old party stalwart handed me.

Until today. Waiting for the bus to go to work, I took out the leaflet and low and behold read that the demonstration was for the dear old leader General Garland. The KKE transcribed his name as "Sin Garland", which gave me a laugh. Apparantly, the KKE have organised demonstrations in a number of Greek cities to "tell the Greek people the truth about Sin Garland". I don't think that the Greek people are too interested to be honest.

by ZR Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:09

Its simple really, Group B was a euphemism for the army (the Official IRA) and Group A was the party. The term Group B came into vogue once SFWP/WP began to deny the existance of the OIRA in public. During the 1980s many people joined the party in the south, unaware of the continued existance of the OIRA and swallowed the leadership line that it no longer existed, so even within the WPs own ranks, knowledge of 'Group B' was restricted to the chosen few. In fact, some of Group Bs members were not even party members and the line was, 'if you are caught doing anything illegal, you plead guilty and take the rap to avoid the whole scam being exposed'. During the split with De Rossa and Co. in 1991-92, the old leadership tried to use Group B as a political network to organise aginst their parliamentary rivals but they just did'nt have the personel to do this properly. BTW most senior members of what became DL were aware of the existance of Group B and some were directly involved, in certain cases right up to the actual split.

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:11

More WP/OIRA killings after their "ceaefire" and not part of their 1975 or 1977 feuds with PIRA (apart from civilians killed by the OIRA during the feud).

20 February 1975 Hugh Ferguson (19) Catholic Status: Civilian Political Activist (CivPA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Irish Republican Socialist Party (IRSP) member. Shot at his workplace, building site, Whiterock Drive, Ballymurphy, Belfast. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish National Liberation (INLA) Army feud.

06 April 1975 Daniel Loughran (18) Catholic
Status: People's Liberation Army (PLA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Shot while walking along Albert Street, Lower Falls, Belfast. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) feud.

05 June 1975 Brendan McNamee (22) Catholic. Status: Irish National Liberation Army (INLA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Shot outside mobile chip van, Stewartstown Road, Suffolk, Belfast. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) feud.

10 June 1975 Larry White (25) nfNIRI
Status: Saor Eire (SE), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). From County Cork. Shot near his home, Orrey Road, Gurranabrahar, County Cork.


10 October 1975 Sean McNamee (24) Catholic Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Shot during armed robbery at his factory, Macweld Engineering, Whiterock Industrial Estate, Belfast.

19 October 1975 Billy Wright (34) nfNIRI
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Died two weeks after being shot at his hairdresser's shop, Cabra Road, Dublin.

11 November 1975 Owen McVeigh (28) Catholic. Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Shot at his home, Grosvenor Place, Lower Falls, Belfast. Mistaken for Irish Republican Army (IRA) member. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish Republican Army (IRA) feud.

12 November 1975 Michael Duggan (32) Catholic. Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA)
Chairman of Falls Taxi Association. Shot while in St Paul's Hall, Hawthorne Street, Falls, Belfast. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish Republican Army (IRA) feud.

27 July 1977 Daniel Cowan (39) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Shot at his home, Riverdale Park East, Andersonstown, Belfast. Previous occupier intended target. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish Republican Army (IRA) feud.

05 October 1977 Seamus Costello (38) nfNIRI. Status: Civilian Political Activist (CivPA), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Leading member of Irish Republican Socialist Party (IRSP). Shot while sitting in stationary car, Northbrook Avenue, North Strand, Dublin. Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) / Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) feud.

10 September 1979 Hugh O'Halloran (28) Catholic. Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA). Died two days after being badly beaten by group of men near his home, Moyard Park, Ballymurphy, Belfast.

by P Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:16

not surprising to see the Provos here dance with glee at the arest of Sean Garland since Mr Garland was an active opponent of the Provo/INLA sectarian scum..

and now he wasnt a member of British intelligence you buffons.

Can anyone tell me how Bobby Sand's sacrifice lead to a united Ireland or the betterment of the living and social conditions/advancement of the Catholic and Protestant working classes.

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:24

Dont you think you should be addressing the numerous lies and errors in your press release which started this debate off?

Do you still think WP/OIRA were on ceasefire since 1972?

Due you agree withe WP/OIRA killing civilian workers at Army bases?

Due you agree with the WP/OIRA beating Hugh O'Halloran to death? Dont you think this has shades of the McCartney murder?

by Perspective - non sanitised historians Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:30

Very interesting lists of the dead above and very true in almost all cases. except B. McNamee killed by the PIRA as a result of internal row (he was a former member before joining INLA). Also Mr. White was in a splinter group of Saor Eire (!) and his family were right wing Catholics not left republicans.
But still very right that all the dead should be listed; so heres a few from the PIRA, operating under a cover name and including some of the fine socialists of south Armagh, the SUV driving, pub and diesel buisness owning patriots who will have absolutly NO problem with Sinn Fein's taxing the wealthy to fund the health service once in coalition with FF (not).
The following men were on their way hime from work at a mill in Bessbrook. When their van was stopped they were asked was there a Catholic with them; they tried to protect him fearing that it was the UVF (his testimony by the way) he was told to get offside and the PIRA mowed them down.


05 January 1976 John McConville (20) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Walter Chapman (23) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Reginald Chapman (25) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Joseph Lemon (46) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 James McWhirter (58) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Kenneth Wharton (24) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Robert Chambers (19) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 John Bryans (46) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Robert Freeburn (50) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.
05 January 1976 Robert Walker (46) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Republican Action Force (RepAF)
Shot shortly after his firm's minibus stopped at bogus vehicle check point while travelling home from work, Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh.

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:37

This thread is about Sean Garland and WP/OIRA. Why are are you trying to sidetrack It? WP/OIRA claimed to be on ceasefire from 1972, this has shown to be lies.

Now why did WP/OIRA kill civilian workers in Army bases?

Why did WP/OIRA kill civilians and RUC members in robberies?

by Cynically Cynical Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:40

"Now why did WP/OIRA kill civilian workers in Army bases?"

Aldershot might have been stupid but tell me what was the base and how long after Bloody Sunday was it?

by Whataboutry Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:41

The loyalist fascists were pretty active at this time; (We can all copy and paste from Cain Index)

19 December 1975 Hugh Watters (60) nfNIRI
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Red Hand Commando (RHC)
Killed in car bomb explosion outside Kay's Tavern, Crowe Street, Dundalk, County Louth.
19 December 1975 Jack Rooney (61) nfNIRI
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Red Hand Commando (RHC)
Injured in car bomb explosion outside Kay's Tavern, Crowe Street, Dundalk, County Louth. He died 22 December 1975.
19 December 1975 Trevor Bracknell (35) nfNI
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Originally from England. Married to local woman. Shot during gun and bomb attack on Silverbridge Inn, Silverbridge, near Crossmaglen, County Armagh.
19 December 1975 Patrick Donnelly (24) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot during gun and bomb attack on Silverbridge Inn, Silverbridge, near Crossmaglen, County Armagh.
19 December 1975 Michael Donnelly (14) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot during gun and bomb attack on Silverbridge Inn, Silverbridge, near Crossmaglen, County Armagh.
21 December 1975 Christine Hughes (43) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
Shot at her home, Mountainview Parade, off Crumlin Road, Belfast.
30 December 1975 Seamus Mallon (31) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
Died four days after being injured in bomb attack on Vallelly's Bar, Ardress, County Armagh.
04 January 1976 John Reavey (24) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot during gun attack on his home, Greyhillan, Whitecross, County Armagh.
04 January 1976 Brian Reavey (22) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot during gun attack on his home, Greyhillan, Whitecross, County Armagh.
04 January 1976 Anthony Reavey (17) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Shot during gun attack on his home, Greyhillan, Whitecross, County Armagh. He died 30 January 1976
04 January 1976 Barry O'Dowd (24) Catholic
Status: Civilian Political Activist (CivPA), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Social Democratic and Labour Party Member. Shot during gun attack on his home, Ballydougan, near Gilford, County Down.
04 January 1976 Declan O'Dowd (19) Catholic
Status: Civilian Political Activist (CivPA), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Social Democratic and Labour Party Member. Shot during gun attack on his home, Ballydougan, near Gilford, County Down.
04 January 1976 Joseph O'Dowd (61) Catholic
Status: Civilian Political Activist (CivPA), Killed by: Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF)
Social Democratic and Labour Party Member. Shot during gun attack on his home, Ballydougan, near Gilford, County Down.

by Perspective Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:43

I think the point is the OIRA last killed someone in 1979, having killed about 50 people (all wrong folks). The Provos killed about 1,700, the Loyalists 1,000 plus, Brits etc several hundred.
The Provos and INLA killed people because of their religion while claiming to be republican. Yes the stickies were liars...so was every player in the war and some more than most, what about Gerry (i was never a member of the IRA) Adams? Hows that for a whopper? Or Enniskillen was caused by radio signals...whoops it was a timing device..or we didn't bomb Claudy or Birmingham..whoops we did, or we didn't kill those 3 Scottish soliders in 1971 the UVF did (yes folks thats what the Provos claimed at the time).
Big lies, all the time and they all tell them

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:44

Here ye go. Remember the WP/OIRA were supposed to be on ceasefire since early 1972.

11 January 1974 Cecilia Byrne (53) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Civilian employed by British Army (BA). Killed by bomb attached to car which exploded shortly after leaving Ebrington British Army (BA) base, Waterside, Derry.

11 January 1974 John Dunne (46) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Official Irish Republican Army (OIRA) Civilian employed by British Army (BA). Killed by bomb attached to car which exploded shortly after leaving Ebrington British Army (BA) base, Waterside, Derry.

by CC Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:51

Were they sanctioned. There is a big difference between a murder carried out by members of an organisation and a murder carried out by an organistation. Wouldn't you agree?

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:01

Oh really! Now would the WP/OIRA ever accept that KIngsmills was an unsanctioned PIRA action?

Did WP/OIRA ever condemn these actions? Did their then Adjutant General, Sean Garland take any disciplinary action against those involved?

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:06

There are liars everywhere. But the most important lies here are those on the WP/OIRA press release which kicks off this thread. Now that those lies havew been exposed, why should we believe anything that WP/OIRA say about Sean Garland?

by CC Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:12

"Did their then Adjutant General, Sean Garland take any disciplinary action against those involved?"

Probably did. When they joined the INLA

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:25

Anyway. If you checkout the postings above you will see that the WP/OIRA were still killing civilians as late as 1979.

by Cynic Thu Oct 13, 2005 13:53

If the WP/OIRA arent going to answer the questions above then you might like to contact them:

WORKERS PARTY

FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT
PHONE;
Dublin: (01) 8740716/ (086) 3004573 (mobile)
Belfast: +44 (0)28 90328663
Fax
Belfast : +44 (0)28 90333475

by Barry Thu Oct 13, 2005 13:57

It was a brutal act without doubt but the exception rather than the rule in s armagh . At that time the local police , army ,and loyalist paramilitaries were massacring local catholics on a weekly basis . The Reavey and ODowd families were lined up and massacred in their homes by RUC and British army killers only the night before barely 2 miles from kingsmills . RUC men were planting bombs in local pubs and riddling the customers with automatic fire . The Miami showband had been slaughtered just previous to that outside Newry and the Dublin Monaghan and Dundalk bombs were known to have originated from that area too .

Local republicans were under huge pressure to bring this all to an abrupt halt . Kingsmills was morally wrong without doubt but sectarian incidents such as that could be counted on one hand over 30 years of conflict in south armagh . And they themselves only arose as a result of a concerted and murderous British dirty tricks campaign intent on raising sectarian tension in the area . Although Kingsmills was brutal it was the last time the IRA ever carried out such a deed in that area .

Im surprised perspective chose to mention none of this , especially with his knowledge to the background of the murder of B McNamee in Belfast . Indeed he was secretly murdered by an inner circle of PIRA members basically for leaving them and joining the IRPS . That murder occured under Gerry Adams tenure as top dog on the Army council and wasnt sanctioned by the IRA and was largely kept secret from its members .The 2 men who murdered him in cold blood are close friends of Gerry Adams and well known faces on our tv screens today , one a politician the other a "community activist" (brainless thug) . The thug is still doing the new stickies in Sinn Feins dirty work for them and threatening dissenters with death . It seems Mr Garlands tactics have been copied by todays sinn fein leadership for years , and stalinist rhetoric aside theres very little to distinguish them . Marty and Gerry and many in their inner circle were former sticks themselves . And Billy McKee always reckoned they were stickie plants to begin with !

It may also interest people to know that just recently the provos in Newry approached local stickies with a proposal to have a joint ceremony to unveil the replacement for the local republican plot which had been destroyed by loyalists . The stick who told me this assured me that hed never stand beside such an unprincipled bunch of sell outs ! :)

by Grommit Thu Oct 13, 2005 13:59

You can email questions to WP/OIRA at
[email protected]

by StalinWatch Thu Oct 13, 2005 14:05

I thought you were joking but WP/OIRA General Sean Garland has got friends somewhere. I'm going to mail them about the threads here, it might open their eyes.

CP of Greece, KKE Protests The Arrest of Sean Garland & The
US Request For Extradition
-------------------------------------------------
From: Communist Party of Greece, Tuesday, October 11, 2005
http://www.kke.gr , mailto:[email protected]
==================================================

KKE Protests The Arrest of Sean Garland And The US Request
For Extradition

Anger and indignation spread among the communists and
democrats of our country the news of the arrest of comrade
Sean Garland president of the Workers' Party of Ireland, on
Friday October 8, first day of the party's congress taking
place in Belfast.

In a release issued on Friday 8th, the Press Bureau of KKE
denounced the arrest of Sean Garland by the British
authorities on foot of an extradition by the US government,
and demanded his immediate release. The communiqu頮oted
that his arrest constitutes an action that questions the
democratic rights of all people in Europe and reminded the
active participation of Sean Garland in the solidarity
movement supporting with the struggle of the Greek people
against the military dictatorship of 67-74.

On Monday October 10, mass demonstrations took place in
Athens, Thessaloniki, Xanthi, Komitini, Kozani and
Ptolemaida on initiative of the organizations of KKE and
KNE demanding the immediate release of Sean Garland and the
rejection of the US request for his extradition.
Mobilizations have also been set for today in the towns of
Kavala and Alexandroupoli.

In Athens the demonstrators marched in the city center
ending up at the British embassy, while in Thessaloniki the
rally headed towards the US and British consulates.

Speaking to the manifestation in Athens, Papagiotis Sofos,
member of the CC of KKE called upon the Greek people also
to draw conclusions from this incident and underlined the
heavy responsibilities of the Greek governments of PASOK
and ND that have also adopted "anti-terrorist" laws and
agreements with the US authorities for the extradition of
"suspects".

At the same time the communist MP Antonis Skylakos raised
the issue in the 34th meeting of the COSAC (Conference of
Community and European Affairs Committees of Parliaments of
the European Union).

Announcements of protest and solidarity have been issued by
the executive committee of PAME (All Workers' Militant
Front), the Federation of Construction Workers, the Trade
Union of Shop Employees, the Federation of IKA Pensioners
(private sector workers) the Campaign for Democratic Rights
and People's Liberties, while more and more trade unions
and mass organizations join the protests.

Info by the International Section of KKE

by perspective - non-moralist Thu Oct 13, 2005 14:13

Barry,
We will have to agree to disagree about Kingsmills. A loyalist apoligist would claim that the Miami massacre was in revenge for the 3 protestants literally riddled with bullets near Newry coming back from a dog show in Cork the month before...then you could point out an equally sick murder by the UVF who would then point out a bombing in belfast which left protestant civilans dead. The most important thing for me is the words of the Reavey's father, interviewed the night of their deaths and shown on documentaries since then 'I want none of my Protestant nieghbours to suffer because of this.' It was a sectarian massacre-it was not aimed at the UVF; in Belfast at that time there were numerous revenge hits on ordinary Protestants as well, which the great Mr. McKee ('a sectarian bigot' in the words of Maidstone escaper Tommy Gorman) agreed with, and Adams to his credit did not. Anyway, yes McNamee etc I'm glad you think I have reasonable knowledge of that. As for Newry you see one Rowntree brother died in late 1972 in a premature Provo bomb (along with 2 comrades and 4 civilans) and the other brother Colman was shot dead in 1974 while on active service with the OIRA. At the first funeral there were firing parties from both PIRA and OIRA.

by StalinWatch Thu Oct 13, 2005 17:46

More about WP/OIRA General Sean Garland here.

'Sean Garland, Managing Director of GKG Comms Inter?national Ltd., in Dublin, met recently with Cao Xiaobing, Bureau Director-General within the Central Committee, to discuss unidentified business opportunities according to late May 1997 information. (COMMENT: Garland is suspected of being involved with counterfeiting U.S. currency, specifically, the Supernote, a high quality counterfeit $100 bill.) (W9B2, 3/00/18224-97, ILC)

Aside from his business interests, Garland was secretary general of the Workers? Party in Ireland. A telling document obtained from Soviet archives revealed that Garland wrote to the secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on September 15, 1986. In the ?dear comrade? letter, Garland stated that the Workers? Party of Ireland had developed a five-year program and asked Moscow to provide one million pounds to help. '

More at the URL.

by Niall Thu Oct 13, 2005 20:28

The Workers Party of Ireland have just launched a website www.seangarland.org and have relased the following statement regarding the arrest of Sean Garland.

The WP are recieving increasing support in their campaign from both national and international level. Dublin Congress of Trade Unions, SIPTU, Sinn Fein and the Socialist Party. Their protest outside the US Embassy takes place this Saturday @ 1.30pm

Here is their side of the story....take it or leave it.

by Badman Thu Oct 13, 2005 20:50

The workers party purchase of this domain has so far failed to influence the google rankings.

If you google:
Seán Garland - indymedia is number 1 and 2

Sean Garland - indymedia is number 4 and 5 behind the bbc.

The stickie site is nowhere to be seen.

by ribbid Thu Oct 13, 2005 21:52

if you are an imc fan, then expect indymedia results to be included in your search.
Anyway.
Mr Garland was listed as managing director of GKG Comms International Ltd based in Dublin when he had his first meeting with a member of the Chinese diplomatic crew. The chinese man was understood at the time to be a "spook".
And the incident was written into a "spy shock thriller" on the "chinese threat" in the USA.

Now If you're not going to explain to the readers how the sticks got their name, you could go on deepening this interesting story by finding out what GKG Comms are supposed to have done, and if their offices are still about.

I'd also appreciate it greatly if anyone could remember the name of the "road movie" made in Ireland in the late 90s, ( I think it was 97) which as a plot line saw a bunch of irish criminals fight over a buried hoard of 100$ plates. Director, cast and script writer please.
:-)

by R. Isible Thu Oct 13, 2005 22:24

I wasn't aware of what you claim about Google and I'd like to read more about it.

by eeekkkk Thu Oct 13, 2005 22:25

was it by any chance reefer and the model? That would be too neat a stickey connexion?

script eoghan harris
producer lelia doolin
director joe comerford

have a feeling that was well before date you indicate and don't remember any plates in it

good movie though

"Break the law? No. Protect the family" said Reefer the nihilistic ex-provo as he prepared to hold up a mobile whest of ireland on wheels bank branch. As he said the line he moved the double barrelled shotgun from pointing at 'the model's' head to her heavily pregnant belly. She was a prostitute - recently returned from ingerland - heavy with child - who Reefer picked up hitchhiking.

Only bit I remember clearly. Haven''t seen it in years.

by Badman Thu Oct 13, 2005 22:32

"please remember that unless you've cleared your cookies any google search you do will be slanted."

This appears to be mistaken. Experiments confirm that the cookie / IP address information does not affect google listings (it does affect ads though).

by class struggler Fri Oct 14, 2005 00:30

Heres the real disgrace, in their own words, the WP collaboration with one of the most viscoius anti-working class regimes in the world:

' Sean Garland can confirm that he has met with Cao Xiaobing - his visit
to China was open and legitimate and he has never denied it. Business links
between Ireland and China have been ongoing for a long time.
Cao Xiaobing has visited Ireland and met with members of the business
community
and politicians in open discourse. The attempt to put sinister connotation
on
a legitimate meeting, is no link to counterfeit currency, but more
consistent
and typical of the main source in these allegations by the media and Gertz
in particular'

by disinformation specialist - phishing global Fri Oct 14, 2005 01:20

How could I have been so wrong?

by pol Fri Oct 14, 2005 03:09

Now there goes one true Irish Republican. A man for all the Irish people.The PIRA are nothing compared to this man

by pol Fri Oct 14, 2005 03:26

Whatever happened to 'IRELAND UNFREE SHALL NEVER BE AT PEACE?

by Barry Fri Oct 14, 2005 03:54

The name of the road movie was " I went Down " , starring Brendan Gleeson .

Funny enough I remembered it not for the buried plates but the blonde Irish girl with the maginificent , nay spectacular , breasts .

Anyone remeber her name ?

by R. Isible Fri Oct 14, 2005 04:49

possibly? Supposedly it's the highest grossing independently produced Irish film ever. Read the reviews at imdb for a laugh.

by Cynic Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:53

"The WP are recieving increasing support in their campaign from both national and international level. Dublin Congress of Trade Unions"

I presume you mean the Dublin Council of Trade Unions. Who authorised this support of Sean Garland? A meeting of the DCTU delegates? The DCTU Executive Committe? Or was it a WP delegate to the DCTU?

by Scenic Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:04

No, the motion was brought forward by SIPTU.

by pat c Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:49

I dont think Sean Garland should be extradited as I dont think he would get a fair trial. If I had been at the D.C.T.U. meeting I would have voted for the motion.

Doesnt mean I think hes innocent of the charges! i might have posed some awkward questions to any WP delegates present.

Its a pity that the WP didnt oppose extradition in the past. I remember one of them laughing at the extradition of Dessie Ellis.

Maybe I should also explain why I am venting such inordinate spleen at Sean Garland. Back in 1981, during the H Blocks Hungerstrike, when I was leafleting a demo, Sean Garland turned on me and said: "What? Bobby Sands? Isnt he dead yet?", he then sneered and went off. You remember things like that.

by StalinWatch Fri Oct 14, 2005 16:58

This is the reply I got from the Greek CP.

From: "Nikos Seretakis"
To:
Subject: RE: Sean Garland
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:01:39 +0300


Dear friend

Thank you for your message and interest.

However the critical question is not if someone agrees with the past or the political positions of Sean Garland.

The question is if we can accept the extradition to the US of a political leader (of any party), and especially in this way (arresting him in public in the first day of his party's convention).

We think that this opens a very dangerous and slippery pathway for the political climate and the democratic rights in Europe. Especially today, with the new "anti-terrorist" measures, the agreements with US etc.

So, everyone is entitled to have and/or hold his own opinion (any opinion) about Sean Garland.

In any case about his political positions and actions let the irish working people judge him, not the US.

But the opposition to his arrest and extradition has to be a matter of principle for all progressive people.

Best regards

Nikos Seretakis

by Cynic Fri Oct 14, 2005 18:15

US says N Korea forged dollars

The US has formally accused North Korea of forging millions of dollars of high-quality counterfeit US dollar notes, known as supernotes. A US court indictment said seven men, including senior Irish republican Sean Garland, distributed the $100 fakes.

North Korea has long been suspected of making supernotes, but this was the first time the US has given details.

The US is seeking the extradition from the UK of Mr Garland, who denies the charges against him.

According to a statement from the US Justice Department, the indictment "describes the efforts of Garland and certain of his associates, between December 1997 and July 2000, to obtain quantities of the counterfeit notes from North Korean sources and to transport, and to either pass as genuine or resell, the Supernotes in the United Kingdom and elsewhere".

The statement said that the "highly deceptive notes - which began to appear in worldwide circulation in or about 1989 - were manufactured in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea [North Korea] and under auspices of the government and transported worldwide by North Korean individuals acting as ostensible government officials".

Mr Garland is accused of handling up to $1m of the supernotes, and of pretending to co-conspirators that the source was Russia, the statement said.

The other men charged in the indictment are Christopher John Corcoran, 57, of Dublin, Ireland; David Levin, also known as David Batikovitch Batikian, 39, of Birmingham and London; Hugh Todd, 68, of South Africa; and Terence "Terry" Silcock, 50, Mark Adderley, 47, and Alan Jones, 48, of Birmingham, United Kingdom.

North Korean trafficking

The indictment comes in the context of a wider US campaign against North Korean contraband.

The US accused the North, in a State Department report last year, of state-sponsored drugs trafficking.

It cited the 2003 apprehension of a North Korean ship in Australian waters allegedly carrying up to 125kg (275 pounds) of heroin and allegations by defectors that North Korea was engaged in large-scale opium poppy production.

And last month, the US accused a bank in Macau of laundering money for the impoverished state.

It is believed that the North engages in such illicit activities in order to earn hard currency to shore up its embattled economy.

Mr Garland is the president of the Irish Workers' Party, the political wing of the Official Irish Republican Army (IRA).


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4337610.stm

Published: 2005/10/13 11:50:37 GMT

© BBC MMV

by die another day Fri Oct 14, 2005 21:42

the whole PN14342 story doesn't just end in Pyongyang. Someone let them have the paper.

by Barry Fri Oct 14, 2005 21:56

Well as NKoreas is a sovereign state Id assume theyd have their own currency , although probably not worth the paper its printed on . Which is probably why they print this stuff with it instead . Who knows . You certainly cant believe the media .

While Sean Garland is indeed a nasty horrible twisted old man , who will deservedly burn in hell for a lifetime of treachery , the Greek commies do have a good point .

This is an important point of principle .

The yanks Brits and Mickey McDowell know full well he is the most hated man in Ireland for a lot of people . He has been a miserable pro Brit and pro state wretch for the last 35 years . This extradition case could merely be the first of its kind and may only be a test run to sort out any teething problems , legal challenges which can be tweaked away for the next time . Sean may yet be fulfilling a purpose for his imperialist mates , although this time unwittingly and against his will for once . Face it , if they come after him theyll come after anyone .

This extradition should be opposed on point of principle , even if the dirtbag involved is a dirtbag , which he is . The Greeks are right , and certainly there is no personal emotion to their position , simply principle .

But theres no way Im standing alongside the Workers Party for one second .

by fran Sun Oct 16, 2005 14:51

isnt it ironic to hear some of the provos here going on about the fake dollar when the provos where funded by the CIA in 1972 to try and counter act the move of the OIRA towards extreme left.

funny thing his the provos in my view are still leaning towards the right

by Civil Rights Sun Oct 16, 2005 18:12

Mediawatchers should be concerned about the content of documentaries like the programme Spotlight. The makers used actors to depict activities that are alleged to have happened. Viewers were shown an actor walking through Moscow whilst the talkover outlined Mr Garland's alleged visits to Russia. Printed in the corner of the screen was the legend "reconstruction".

This is a powerful method of turning an allegation into a perceived fact for viewers. This dramatic lincence was used throughout the programme and is an effective way of influencing public opinion and should be a concern to all democrats and civil rights activists.

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Sun Oct 16, 2005 18:38

please source your allegations re IRA funded by CIA. Thanks.

by Abroad in Greece Sun Oct 16, 2005 23:47

As the person who posted the report on the support for Garland here in Greece, may I stress that the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) does not have a "strong base" in this country and neither do Garland's ideological colleagues have a "strong base" across Europe, as suggested by the report on the indymedia main page.

The KKE did organise a protest demo calling for Garland's release but can I stress that very few people outside of that party take any notice of what that party does. The KKE managed to hold up the traffic for an hour or two, but that's about it. The protest was ignored by the members of the public who caught sight of it. Indeed, as far as I can make out, this (and other protests) are more about giving the KKE a reason to exist than with Sean Garland or whatever cause the KKE latches on to.

by €uropean - you can't forge a forgery Mon Oct 17, 2005 00:12

the KKE did play a part in a coalition in the 1980s but have gone through many splits before and after, *do they seem to be a "historical rump" in a comparative sense to the SF/SFWP/WP?
*What is their approach if any to their own historicity? *Has the issue been disregarded by the others who trace a perhaps more representational "left" legacy of greek politics in the given period of irish discussion (1955-1976) the Seferis case, reaction to the cases brought against the group November 17.

In short are you learning about Irish political history by noticing in Greek society who is responding to the Garland case?

Any thoughts to share - I'd love to read an article on the newswire or see some links to contemporary greek things in otherpress.

by pat c Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:39

Actually the KKE get a respectable vote in Greece and have improved lately.

in the 2004 Euros the K.K.E. got 570.669 votes, 9.5% and got 3 MEPs elected. Which is an improvement on their 5.91 % in the 2000 General Election.

So their support for Sean Garland is significant. They make it clear that they are opposing the extradition of Sean Garland on a point of principle.

I remember in 1981 when Bobby Sands died on Hunger Strike there were riots in Greece. In particular in Athens a huge crowd fought a running battle for hours with riot police as they attempted to attack the British Embassy.

by Abroad in Athens Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:10

pat c, yes the KKE have a pretty impressive electoral base for an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist party. I don't dispute that. It's important to consider, however, that the KKE electoral showing is more a protest vote than any real concern for the party's policies.

The point I was trying to make is that the type of protest employed the the KKE - a kind of historical reenactment complete with red flags and hammers and sickles - has very little effect outside of the mother party's ranks. If your not a KKE member, you don't take notice of what these demonstrations are about. In fact, most of the commuters about the city centre on that Monday evening were pretty pissed off at the fact that traffic had to be diverted and buses cancelled owing to this demo for "Sin Garland".

Now to your questions, €uropean - you can't forge a forgery
*do they seem to be a "historical rump" in a comparative sense to the SF/SFWP/WP?
- a rump yes, but a strong and well-oiled one at that. The KKE remanis much stronger (and populist) than the SYN party, formerly the KKE-Interior.

*What is their approach if any to their own historicity?
- Recently, I attended the festival of the KNE, the party youth wing. The KKE's approach to its own past is best summed up by the fact that Stalin's image and works were prominently displayed on the party book stalls for sale.

*Has the issue been disregarded by the others who trace a perhaps more representational "left" legacy of greek politics in the given period of irish discussion (1955-1976) the Seferis case, reaction to the cases brought against the group November 17.
- come again (please specifiy what you're asking here)

*In short are you learning about Irish political history by noticing in Greek society who is responding to the Garland case?
- no, not really. I was pretty well versed in Irish affairs before arriving here and the KKE's support for Garland does not surprise me.

by historian Mon Oct 17, 2005 13:26

Don't the KKE MEPS sit in the same Euro Parliamnet group as SF's MacDonald and De Brun?

by hmmmm Mon Oct 17, 2005 14:00

24 MEPs represent Greece
as of 15/6/04 when Greek voters went to 19,645 polling stations,the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) was third with 9.46 per cent, electing 3 Euro MPs, abstention was exceptionally high compared at 37.9 percent.
They sit in the European United Left - Nordic Green Left block, as along with the Sinn Fein MEPs, the Dutch socialist party MEPs, the Portuguese communist party MEPs, or the Danish Folkebevaegelsen - they do not belong to any european party. As such their group is a technical association and the statements of their MEPs doesn't reflect a policy of the EUL/Nordic Green Left. As an example Thanasis Pafilis, one of the MEPs (KKE) and General Secretary of the World Peace Council (WPC), campaigned against the Regulation of the European Council as an effort to contribute to the legalization of the American- inspired "International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia (ICTY)". Speaking at the Plenary Session of the European Parliament he stated that the MEPs of the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) were going to vote against it. He also suggested that there should be an end to this parody, and called for the dissolution of the so-called `Tribunal´ and the liberation of Slobodan Milosevic. - sept. 2004.

Still that's easy, thats only last year. What I'd love to know is, the compare & contrast - mid 20th century history of splits, criminalisation, radicalisation, armed struggle blah de blah.

by banker Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:26

Anybody that rips off the US treasury on such a massive scale has my vote any day. Well done to to whoever it was that did that, you've got to admire them for the sheer scale of the operation, a class act, brilliant.

If it is true, and it is highly unlikely to be, then the workers party have gone one better, no need to steal 42 million, just print your own money.

The allegations are most likely unfounded and the result of a US vendetta against Sean Garland and the workers party.

by Joe - None Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:41

Sean Garland is a proper Republican. Not like the lickspittles like Adams and McGuiness who suck up to the Yanks

by pat c Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:45

I can only presume that you are a provocateur and are out to sabotage any chance of SF supporting Sean Garland.

by Billy Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:46

Take a look at the Timewatch programme on this shown on BBC2 in 1996. They had witnesses who said the CIA had a meeting with the Provo high command to be and leaders of the Catholic heirarchy in Co. Fermanagh in 1970.

by pat c Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:51

please provide some links to these alleged Provo/CIA links.

You're not exactly winning republicans over to SEan Garlands side either.

by DV8 Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:23

The arrest by the PSNI of Sean Garland by order of the United States Government on October 7th was, we believe, an act of gross injustice against a law-abiding Irish citizen.

We are extremely concerned that an Irish citizen has been arrested on foot of an extradition warrant issued by the US government while he was in the jurisdiction of Northern Ireland. If these were serious charges why did the US government wait until Sean Garland was outside the jurisdiction of the Irish Republic before this warrant was served on him?

We also believe that the extradition of a political activist who has for many years peacefully opposed the foreign policy of successive United States governments, including the illegal invasion of Iraq, is politically motivated and will result in the denial of basic human rights and will rule out any possibility of a fair trial in that country.

We the undersigned call for the Irish Government to seek the immediate lifting of the restriction of his freedom and movement imposed by the courts in that he must remain in Northern Ireland while the United States government provides evidence against him.

We also note the failure to provide such evidence despite claims that an investigation has been under way for 15 years.

We draw attention to the fact that Sean Garland has consistently worked for peace in Ireland and across the world and as a republican has dedicated his life to the unity of Catholic Protestant and Dissenter in Ireland and against sectarianism.

Sean Garland has not been charged with any crime and his rights under article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights are, we believe, violated in that he has not been afforded the right to a fair trial as a result of the action of the British and United States governments. - Yours, etc (in a personal capacity), -

JACK O'CONNOR, General President, Siptu; MICK O'REILLY, General Secretary, ATGWU; CHRIS HUDSON, MBE; FERGUS WHELAN, Ictu; TOM BRADY, National Secretary, IMPACT; NOEL DOWLING, DES HUGHES, GERRY LYNCH, JOHN DUNNE, MICK CORCORAN, KEVIN McMAHON, JIMMY JORDAN, TOM O'DWYER, ERIC FLEMING, MAGS O'BRIEN, RHONDA DONAGHY, ANDREW McGUINESS, TISH GIBBONS, DAVE FIELDS, Industrial Officials, Siptu; MICK FINNEGAN, Union Activist, Siptu; PAUL HANDSARD, National Executive member, Siptu; BARNEY HARTNETT, ATGWU Retired Members' Association; c/o Liberty Hall, Dubin 1.

by Stephen Hayes was innocent Sat Oct 29, 2005 00:55

The C/S list for Oglaigh na hEireann is wrong - Cathal Goulding was C/S until 1976.
That can be said because he's dead. Was any one out there at the Knockvicar convention way back when?
It was a pity about 'Vol. Clancy' , but he knew the game he was playing

by Barry Sat Nov 05, 2005 22:06

Good article with quotes and sources on the sticks courtesy of the 32CSM website . Interesting read

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1131128287&user=32csm

by The Great Djerginski - None Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:59

On reading the comments on this thread you've got to concede that this Sean Garland fella sounds alright. He is definitely impervious to the creepy whinging Trots who write the comments.

by Cynic Mon Jan 30, 2006 13:52

Well if you think someone who supports a genocidal regime like North Korea is OK then Sean Garland is your man. The WP still have not explained why Sean Garland met with Madame Bao of the Chinese CP, to "discuss business opportunities". Could it be that the WP are importing goods into Ireland which were made by slave labour in Chinese Prison Camps?

by Cynically Cynical Mon Jan 30, 2006 13:59

It must piss you off that he is still a free man - Good!

by Cynic Mon Jan 30, 2006 15:10

No I am not uupset. I just wonder why the Garda have not moved against him and why the CAB has not seized his assets or those of the WP

There are millions of prisoners, many of them political, in North Korea and China. I worry about them.

by Cynically Cynical Mon Jan 30, 2006 16:12

"No I am not uupset. I just wonder why the Garda have not moved against him and why the CAB has not seized his assets or those of the WP.
There are millions of prisoners, many of them political, in North Korea and China. I worry about them."

Might have something to do with the fact that you need evidence, a court decision etc, before CAB moves against you. So far we have the say so of the US Bush led administration and a Panorama programme. Seem to remember both saying that there were WMD's in Iraq.

by Cynic Mon Jan 30, 2006 17:38

But theres a lot of people saying that Sean Garland was involved in the forgery. Ex members of the OIRA, Irish gangsters, English gangsters, former KGB. What was he doing in Moscow staying at a £500 a night hotel? Do WP officials get very good per diems?

Dont forget about Madame Bao. What relationship does the company GKI (Sean Garland is the MD) have with the WP? Is the WP using GKI as a front to import goods to Ireland? Goods which have been manufactured by Slave Labour in Chinese Concentration Camps?

by Cynically Cynical Mon Jan 30, 2006 17:52

"But theres a lot of people saying that Sean Garland was involved in the forgery. Ex members of the OIRA, Irish gangsters, English gangsters, former KGB. What was he doing in Moscow staying at a £500 a night hotel? Do WP officials get very good per diems?"

A lot of people say a lot of things.

"Dont forget about Madame Bao. What relationship does the company GKI (Sean Garland is the MD) have with the WP? Is the WP using GKI as a front to import goods to Ireland? Goods which have been manufactured by Slave Labour in Chinese Concentration Camps?"

And you get your information from what source?

by Cynic Mon Jan 30, 2006 18:07

If you care to read some of the previous comments on this thread then you will see where I get my information. Heres also an excerpt from a Danny Morrison article. The BBC progam he writes about is also linked above in a previous comment.

'Last year, BBC’s Panorama, using secret recordings and police undercover footage, did an expose of the counterfeiting cartel which was first discovered twelve years ago when North Korean diplomats - the only people allowed to travel outside the state - were caught passing on the superdollars.

The programme, quoting General Vladimir Uskov of the Russian Interior Police, claimed that Sean Garland had regularly visited the North Korean Embassy in Moscow and that this was the distribution centre for the counterfeit money. However, all of the evidence presented on Panorama was circumstantial.

The programme showed that Terence Silcock, who was sentenced to six years, was a regular visitor to Dublin (booking return flights - but returning by ferry), that he and Garland were in Moscow at the same time and that Silcock telephoned Garland’s mobile number from his Moscow hotel.

One of the gang, Hugh Todd, ‘the Irish courier’ alleged to have brought the dollars from Dublin to Birmingham for distribution and laundering through David Levin, a Russian criminal, told police his boss was called “Sean… He’s a communist, he has communist beliefs which is what the old IRA is.” He also said: “He’s old school … he’s the Colonel-in-Chief of the IRA.”

Garland was arrested in Belfast and was subsequently granted £10,000 bail provided he stayed at the Downpatrick home of Des O’Hagan. His bail conditions were later amended to allow the 71-year-old, who suffers from diabetes, to leave the jurisdiction and go to Navan for medical treatment, near his home.

Last week Garland failed to appear in Belfast court and a warrant was issued for his arrest.

It was either the height of stupidity or cockiness - having been named in Worcester Crown Court and on British television as one of the major players in the conspiracy, and knowing that a US investigation was on his trail - for Sean Garland to have come to Belfast to attend his party’s ard fheis. Maybe cockiness – after all, at the height of the conflict senior Workers Party members often seemed immune from arrest and were certainly bosom drinking pals of RUC detectives and leading figures in the UVF. '

The entire article is at the url beloe;
http://dannymorrison.ie/articles/oppose-extradition-sea...d.php

by Cynically Cynical Mon Jan 30, 2006 18:15

Panorama and Danny Morrison.
Panorama 'proof of weapons of mass destruction' and Danny 'seriously your honour we weren't torturing and about to shoot that tout' Morrison.
Can you do better than that?
Has he been arrested here yet?

by Cynic Mon Jan 30, 2006 18:28

'Has he been arrested here yet?'

Makes you wonder doesnt it? All the hysteria when the Colombia 3 got back, FF, FG, the PDs , Labour were tripping over each other to demand their arrest and extradition. But not a peep about Sean Garland. Some of them were even making sympathetic noises about him before he jumped bail.

Now Sean Garland is on the run from justice in the North as well as in the US? Jumping bail is itself a crime. Now he could opt to be tried for that down here. But it is very strange that no Garda has felt the shoulder of Sean Garland. Even stranger is the fact that the CAB have not seized properties belonging to Sean Garland or the WP. Other criminals have had properties seized on the basis of a lot less evidence.

by The Great Djerginski - None Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:43

Mr Cynic you sound like a Fort Langley Virginia man to me. It has always intrigued me how the Trot line and that of the US security services is often identical.

by Cynic Tue Jan 31, 2006 19:45

Surely you can do better than that? Its not Trots who are oppressing the people of North Korea and China. Its the Stalinists that the WP love so much. It wasnt Trots who organised the Stalin/Hitler pact and it wasnt Trots who handed German Communists over to the Gestapo.

Where have Trots ever co-operated with Capitalists let alone with Fadcists?I write this as a Republican Socialist member of SF who doesnt always get on with Trots.

by Cynically Cynical Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:01

You are writing all that as a member of SF and you are pointing out all of Sean Garland's dodgy dealings. What a laugh, what a hypocrite. How's ol Scap and the boy Donaldson? Intel just ain't what it used to be -eh?
Have your own holiday home in Donegal or low wage building business yet. I thought you were some 'freedom loving neocon yankee' by the way you were going on? And to think that you were just a pissed off provie makes me laugh. Hypocrite.

by Cynic Wed Feb 01, 2006 17:28

Sure you would know all about building what with your protection rackets. Your not called the building Workers Party for nothing. Not to mention the hotels and apartments built on WP sites in Cork and Dublin.Sour grapes now because Sean Garland was hauled in despite all the good work he did for MI5?

I see the bailsmen for Sean Garland lost their money. Whos going to reimburse them? No $100 bills please.

'Case Adjourned 'Sine Die'

In the Belfast Crown Court on Wednesday 18th January 2006 the Crown Prosecution Service applied for, and was granted, an adjournement 'Sine Die' (ie an indefinite adjournement) of the case seeking the extradition of Sean Garland to the United States.

As Sean Garland was not in court (for reasons explained in detail elsewhere on this site) the case could not be heard. Therefore, the case could either be struck out or adjourned.

At the same hearing the Crown also sought the estreatment of the £30,000 bail money which had been posted to secure Sean's release from police custody. After intense legal argument the jugde decided that £1,000 should be returned to each of the bail bondsmen but that the remainder should be forfeit. As there were three bondsmen that means that £3,000 was returned but £27,000 was forfeited to the Crown.'

http://www.seangarland.org/id1.html

by Cynically Cynical Wed Feb 01, 2006 18:19

"Sure you would know all about building what with your protection rackets. Your not called the building Workers Party for nothing. Not to mention the hotels and apartments built on WP sites in Cork and Dublin.Sour grapes now because Sean Garland was hauled in despite all the good work he did for MI5?"

I'm sure you could write the book on building scams and protections rackets. (or are you a shinner nua who believes 'we only did it because of the war'?). I'm not pretending to be squeaky but you sure do. How's Joe O'Donnell getting on these days with his building enterprises? And as for MI5, seen as how it's still the panto season, watch out their behind you (oh and in front of you and beside you).

by The Great Djerginski - None Wed Feb 01, 2006 18:22

Capitol Hill is stuffed with Trots. NeoConservatism was thought up by them. As they lose their hair they move into jobs with proper salaries - except when excessive drinking - as in Chrisopher Hitchen's case - prevents their hair falling out. They use to make a good living blackguarding the old Soviet Union in rightwing rags now they air Fort Langley statistics on China and North Korea. You should know Mr Cynic - being on the payroll and all.

by Cynic Wed Feb 01, 2006 21:48

No Trots in the CIA. Probably a few Stalinists. How many did Stalin Kill, was it 40 Million. Hitler was in the junior league in comparison. But Hitler and Stalin got on well together, well enough for Stalin to hand over German Communists to Hitler.

by Cynically Cynical Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:55

"No Trots in the CIA. Probably a few Stalinists. How many did Stalin Kill, was it 40 Million. Hitler was in the junior league in comparison. But Hitler and Stalin got on well together, well enough for Stalin to hand over German Communists to Hitler."

And how many innocent people did the Provo's kill. The Officials were in the junior league in comparison. But MI5 had the RA well and throughly infilitrated, well enough for Steaknife to hand over many Republican Socialists to the executioneer.

by Cynic Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:12

Funny how you keep changing the topic when it suits you. why dont you deal with Stalin? After all the WP is a Stalinist Party.

How many innocents did the Provos kill? A lot less than were killed by the British Imperialist Forces throughout the World during the same years. Also a lot less than the number of innocents killed by the WPs Comrades in North Korea and China.

As for Steak Knife he probably was responsible for a lot less than the WP and OIRA. When you have an entire movement like the Official "Republican" Movement actively supporting British Imperialism then you have an efficent spy service.

by Cynically Cynical Thu Feb 02, 2006 13:50

"As for Steak Knife he probably was responsible for a lot less than the WP and OIRA. When you have an entire movement like the Official "Republican" Movement actively supporting British Imperialism then you have an efficent spy service."

So Steak Knife, Donaldson and whoever else are the fault of the 'ORM'. Very droll. I suppose its to blame for the breach's of internal security as well as the shit intel unit. And I suppose it was them who killed Bobby McCartney as well. (Couldn't possibly have been the PRM)

by Cynic Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:05

You are still avoiding all the issues of Stalin, North Korea, China. How many died in the Stalinist Countries? How many died throughout the World due to British Imperialism which was cheered on in the Six Counties by the ORM? The entire ORM acted as an intelligence service for the Crown Forces in the Six Counties.

Sean Garland has been badly treated by his British masters, no medal, no Knighthood and no pension. Did he get a pension from the KGB?

by Cynically Cynical Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:18

"Sean Garland has been badly treated by his British masters, no medal, no Knighthood and no pension. Did he get a pension from the KGB?"

What 'Republican' party's members will be getting British pensions Pat C (ynic)? You still didn't answer what you base your info on Garland on? And when you did, your sources weren't exactly the most reliable now, where they?

by Cynic Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:27

I am not Pat C. Your intelligence gathering abilities seem to have become somewhat blunted. You are not answering the questions that were put to you.

by hilarious Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:29

that the ones who accuse others of cooperating with brits and selling out Ireland are the shin feinners and provisionals, what a shower of hypocrites!!

by pat c Thu Feb 02, 2006 14:40

"Billy
by pat c Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:51
please provide some links to these alleged Provo/CIA links.

You're not exactly winning republicans over to SEan Garlands side either."

this is the last comment by me on this thread a while ago. i am not cynic (though i admit to being cynical) i have lately discussed the sean garland issue with "stick" on another thread. though we disagreed with each other, and people often make sharp statements in the heat of the moment, i think at the end of the discussion there was more understanding between us. i'm leaving off unless there are further developments or provocative statements by (identifiable) sticks.

this is another thread about sean garland and i dont see how continuing this discussion is going to help sean garland attract wider support. cynically cynical might consider this. if you are determined to continue the fight here then leave me out of it.

now i'll get back to battling exploiters of women and islamic fundamentalists if you dont mind.

by exstickee Thu Feb 02, 2006 15:11

When people state that the WP are 'stalinist' what do they actually mean? Did the WP support the USSR, yes. Do they defend whats refered to as 'marxist leninism' yes. I dont know if that makes them stalinist. The stalin cult of the personality was denounced at the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1956. It is known especially for Nikita Khrushchev's Secret Speech, which denounced recently deceased Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.

During the morning closed session of the last day of the Congress, Khrushchev, the Communist Party Secretary, took the opportunity to give a stinging rebuke of the policies of Stalin, his late predecessor. Khrushchev denounced a list of crimes committed by Stalin's supporters, many of which had previously been denied by the Soviet Union.

So if the WP were pro soviet then by being such they were anti stalinist. Unless the people posting here mean something else by the term Stalinist?

by Richey Thu Feb 02, 2006 15:20

When the WP aligned itself with Moscow, Brezhnev was the leader, and there is no way anyone could claim he was "anti-Stalinist". Socialist historians like Roy Medvedev who exposed the crimes of Stalin were harassed by the KGB. More to the point, the WP had (and still has) a close relationship with the North Korean regime, the second most extreme (not quite as lunatic as Pol Pot, but getting there) Stalinist dictatorship of them all. "Stalinist" is a fair label

by Cynically Cynical Thu Feb 02, 2006 16:42

Since the turn of the year these are the questions you have asked (am I right):

"I just wonder why the Garda have not moved against him and why the CAB has not seized his assets or those of the WP?"
Ask the Garda? My, my a provo caring about bourgeois niceties.

"What was he doing in Moscow staying at a £500 a night hotel?"
And your evidence on this is?

"What relationship does the company GKI (Sean Garland is the MD) have with the WP?
Is the WP using GKI as a front to import goods to Ireland?"
Why don't you tell us? Your knowledge on all of this seems very good. Again what are your sources?

And you deny that the PRM is not involved in similar activities?

by The Great Djerginski Thu Feb 02, 2006 17:07

American television has plenty of anti-Soviet documentaries on which cheery, hail and hearty, cherubic fellas blithly announce they have done 30 years in Stalin's gulags. I personnally know a couple of guys who did up to 3 years in the state pen and they are ruined as human beings. Somethings kinds out of sync here.

by Cynic Thu Feb 02, 2006 17:19

Thats what Djerg and Cyn Cyn are about. If Djerg had said that conditions were great in Belsen it would have been deleted. 40 Million died in Stalins Holocaust.

Cyn Cyn I have to tell you that the IRA are not involved in Counterfeiting rackets with the North Koreans and I dont think IRA members stay at top Moscow Hotels. The OIRA must give bloody good subsistence allowances.

by Cynically Cynical Thu Feb 02, 2006 17:25

"The OIRA must give bloody good subsistence allowances."

And Armani suits grow on trees in Ballymurphy.

by pat c Thu Feb 02, 2006 18:45

2 February
1943 - The German army surrendered to the Soviet army at Stalingrad.

"For the first time, an entire German army has ceased to exist. What we used to inflict on others has happened to us."
[General Dietmar, chief military commentator of Berlin Radio, on the German surrender to Soviet forces at Stalingrad, 2 Feb 1943.]

critic though i am of stalin & stalinists, i wouldnt be human if i didnt celebrate this anniversary.

And The Red Flag Flew O'er The Nazi HQ.

by The Great Djerginski - None Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:23

Where do you get the 40 million from Mr Cynic? No Western journalist or academic ever hurt their career by inventing deflamatory lies about the Soviet Union - or come to that China and North Korea.

by Topper Fri Feb 03, 2006 16:35

But many Russian, East German, Polish, Hungarian and Czech socialists did more than hurt their careers by telling inflammatory truths about the Stalinist regimes in their countries - they got a bullet in the head. You are in exactly the same moral category as the Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers who sometimes pop up on this site. Go off to North Korea and taste the freedom if you love it so much

by 'Cyn Cyn' Fri Feb 03, 2006 17:23

The Rosenborgs can tell you a thing or two about freedom.

by pat c Fri Feb 03, 2006 17:54

1966 The first rocket-assisted controlled landing on the Moon was made by the Soviet space vehicle Luna IX.

Well another thing also; not an acheivement of the USSR but worth remembering:

1959 Buddy Holly dies in plane crash.

And its higher and higher and higher we will raise up the Soviet Star..

by Topper Fri Feb 03, 2006 17:57

Yes, and so can Imre Nagy, Alexander Dubcek, Roy Medvedev, Rudolf Bahro, Boris Kagarlitsky, and countless other socialists who were killed or imprisoned by your eastern bloc buddies for fighting for democratic socialism. Go off to North Korea if you love its freedom so much

by pat c Fri Feb 03, 2006 18:25

i agree with the points you make but i've raised them ad nauseum elsewhere. stick and i agreed that its up to the people of north korea to decide their own destiny and overthrow kim if they so wish.

in the meantime i will add bits and bobs to show that the ussr wasnt all bad. defeating hitler, getting to the moon. hmmm, i wonder if the kgb or cia got buddy holly?

by The Great Djerginski - None Sat Feb 04, 2006 15:27

Mr Cynic must be too busy leafing through his past Readers Digests for the source for the 40 million number to reply to the question. If he is coming up to a promotions board at Langley he should go a lot higher. Andrew Roberts - a professor of history at Cambridge University - says Joe Stalin murdered 220 million and has done very well careerwise. Keep in mind the population of the Soviet Union in the 1920's was about 200million.

by agenda Sat Feb 04, 2006 16:25

we can wish him a happy birthday.
& of course ask him how he crossed the border and how the security of our state is so lax that fugitives may cross our frontiers willy nilly. What has happened to Irish sovreignty?
I for one think the Garland case shows us the need to close the border once and for all.

by pat c Sat Feb 04, 2006 19:51

200 million in the 1920s? i think it would have been closer to 100 million.. i'll check trotskys history of the russian revolution later (it has some uses) i have seen some ridiclious estimates for deaths under stalin, but they did go into the millions.

40 million is probably an exageration. even if you include famines.

i wonder how many died in capitalist famines?

by tim Sun Feb 05, 2006 21:32

But many Russian, East German, Polish, Hungarian and Czech socialists did more than hurt their careers by telling inflammatory truths about the Stalinist regimes in their countries - they got a bullet in the head. You are in exactly the same moral category as the Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers who sometimes pop up on this site. Go off to North Korea and taste the freedom if you love it so much

-oh dear, how may people heard that before the crack of the rifle!

by Pravda Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:41

N Korea 'not forging US dollars'

Washington has accused the North of circulating fake greenbacks
North Korea is no longer forging US dollars, contrary to US claims, South Korea's intelligence agency has said.

in full at

by pat c Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:43

sotheystopped forging them in 1998? that was nice of them. still plenty floating around i'm sure.

by Cynically Cynical Mon Feb 06, 2006 13:48

But you don't need dodgy dollars to buy at least 12 apartments in Dublin city centre.
Not to mention other rental properties in counties Monaghan, Louth, Meath and Wicklow.
Or to help finance a construction project worth at least €60 million in the eastern region.
Or to buy a well-known hotel in Dublin's south inner city.
Or to help control a landmark hotel which carries the most sought-after postcode in the country.
Or even to buy two pubs much frequented by rugby fans on match day.
Isn't that right cynic? (Perhaps you should change your name to myopic)

by pat c Mon Feb 06, 2006 20:58

apparently the population of the russian empire was 150 million in 1900. given WW1 and the civil war that followed its unlikely that this figure was exceeded in the 1920s before the famines. now i accept that stalin was responsible for millions of deaths but i dont see how 40 million could have died due to stalin plus the 25 million who died in WW2.

i cant get figures for the ussr as a whole but here are trends for russian federal republic:

1914 91.5M

1920 88M

1930 98M

1939 108M

1946 105M

1950 101m

1951 104M

1955 111M

I dont see how this allows for 40 million to be killed under Stalin. this isnt whitewashing stalin, just querying dodgy statistics,

The source is:

"This website belongs to the Dutch "Werkgroep Seriële Publicaties" (WESP), in English: "Working Alliance on Serial Publications", in short: "WASP".
The "WESP" was inaugurated on January 9, 1991 in Groningen, the Netherlands. It is part of a higher organization "UKB-CAT", that consists of chiefs of cataloguing departments mainly in university libraries of the Netherlands.
The members of the "WESP" are library staff who are in charge of cataloguing serial publications, in university libraries, and other big libraries in the Netherlands that have large collections of serials (like the Royal Library and the Library of the Royal Netherlands Academy of Sciences). "

More info at the link.

by pat c Mon Feb 06, 2006 21:19

i wouldnt be at all surprised if what you are saying about the provos there is true and i certainly wont defend any businessman, seeing as this guy seems to own a lot of the property himself. leave that to ede and cynic and the provo incorrigables.

BUT and as you see it is a big BUT, when i was arguing with stick he always asked me what my sources were. now what are yours? i bet they are the capitalist media. heh. heh. sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

by avoca Mon Feb 06, 2006 21:59

I'm a leaving cert student doing a thesis, and my teacher has asked me to scour the net and even written me a pass to get into the National Library, but some questions just don't seem to get answered.

by pat c Mon Feb 06, 2006 22:39

it is certainly alleged that the exposives used came from an organisation that sean garland might have been involved with. i cant give you reliable sources on this so i hope that cynically cynical or stick will comment further.

by stick Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:21

What age do you think I am?

by Cynically Cynical Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:21

That's been my point with cynic all along. He's taken everything that he has seen as gospel. So he's got to believe this story, doesn't he? As you say what's good for the goose........

by The Great Djerginski - None Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:28

There are now more people in Russian gulags than there ever where in Joe Stalin's time. Only they are now in worse conditions and in for petty crimes like stealing a bottle of vodka, while whole industries and national mineral rights have been stolen by people who are celebreties in the West. While population life expectancy has fallen more than 13 years since 1990 (International Red Cross figures) the profits from Russian industry is paying for the cocaine habits of British professional fooballers. If you want a sample of those who did bird in Stalin's gulags take a look at the records of that friend of apardeid Soljynitsin and The Gauleiter of the West Bank, Anatoly Scharansky.

by pat c Tue Feb 07, 2006 15:33

i only meant that you might know some people who had been around!

cynicaly cynicl ok i see your point. blind belief is bad.

by wickala warrior Tue Feb 07, 2006 17:11

I doubt if avoca will get any joy asking questions like that. Paramilitaries or retired paramilitaries are not going to confirm or deny. Hypothethic conversation

Researcher; did you have uzi sub machine guns in your armoury in 1973?

Para; Yes

Researcher; How many

Para: we had over 30 uzis

Researcher publishes: The paramilitary group was supplied weapons by the South African government or directly from Israel as in 1973 they were the only suppliers in large quantities.

Get my drift?

by avoca Wed Feb 08, 2006 15:13

I'm not really a leaving cert thesis writer.
I'm a global politician, and one of the secrets of my success is that so many people think
I'm a kiddy with a computer trying to change the world with a tad of dyslexia.
Anyway, don't you worry yourselves, Ireland will produce in every generation men and women of the Garland ability and better.

by Sonia - None Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:46

What did Stalin or Garland ever practically do for Gay Rights?

by pat c Thu Feb 16, 2006 18:58

stalin introduced anti gay laws and persecuted them.

garland? well the wp have always supported gay rights. cant say what garland himself ever did to support, but he may have spoken etc,

by Dr.Nightdub Fri Feb 17, 2006 00:49

Someone mentioned Provo / CIA links way way back. Dunno about that but the link between the emergence of the Provos and Dublin is hardly disputed, and the condition imposed on the Provos that they lurch to the right, or at least well away from Garland and those other wicked left-wing Officials.

Sources (among others):
John Kelly - "Orders for the Captain"
Anonymous - "The Black Book". Can't remember its exact title but it was a wee pamphlet, that may or may not have been Stickie propaganda, MI5 propaganda, or simply the truth.

by The Great Djerginski - None Sat Feb 18, 2006 19:08

Joe Stalin was too busy saving the Slav people being turned into soap by the Nazis to work his way through the gay rights agenda sweetheart. That Sean Garland would seems also to have been too busy pursuing a program for the Irish working class.

by pat c Sat Feb 18, 2006 19:12

now lets not get nasty. i might p[oint out that stalin turned enough slavs into soap and decimated the redarmy oggicer corps thus making it easier for the nazis to sweep thru the ussr.

by The Great Djerginski - None Sun Feb 19, 2006 15:41

The Nazi army swept the French and the British up to the Channel Coast. It doesn't follow that Stanley Baldwin had exterminated all the graduates from Camberley Staff College. We've been through this business about the inbuilt bais in the West's reporting of the Soviet Union but you still seem not to get it Pat.

by pat c Sun Feb 19, 2006 16:25

are u denying that stalin purged the red army of all of its best officers?

i dont see what point u are trying to make.

stalin criminalised homosexuality long before WWII.

i have never said that thw wp was anti gay. i knew many lgbt wp members, some are still in it. none of them ever mentioned encountering homophobia in the wp.

i wonder what your real agenda is?

by Ni C Sat Sep 27, 2008 01:49

The article above suggests that Teebane refers to an incident where 10 protestant workmen were lined up and shot for being protestant. This is completely factually inaccurate. The Teebane massacre happened on the evening of the 17th of January 1992 when the East Tyrone Brigade of the IRA blew up a van returning from Lisanelly Barracks in Omagh. There were 14 protestant workmen in the van. Seven of the workmen died at the scene of the bombing and one, the driver of the van, died later in hospital. There were six survivors. I'm well aware of the facts concerning Teebane as one of the men who died, Gary (William) Bleeks, aged 25 at the time, was a close friend of mine. I'm Catholic, he was protestant and neither of us harboured any real political aspirations. Please have some respect for the innocents who lost their lives by reporting the facts accurately.