London Attacked

by Dax Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:01

Rumours are power surges but cops on street below admitting its bombs. Loads of the met up in Scotland for G8. Tube competely closed down.... every station every train. Phone networks busy, loads of sirens.

by Dax Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:08

Roads closed off. Civil defence plan kicked off apparently (according to sky). I'm near ruseel square apparently packed bus totalled there by bomb.

by ROOSTER Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:09

20 DEAD SO FAR!!

by Dax Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:12

Can't get wife on blower. Dammit not good getting out of here (15 floors up).

by By Any Means Necessary Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:26

Tell us that you're alright brother...can't get through on the phone.

by Andrew Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:29

For people trying to get through on phones - some of the British networks - def 02 - have gone 'emergency services only' - ordinary customers can't get or receive phone calls. And it appears that the land lines are frequently overloaded. So don't panic if your not getting through

by DV8 Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:36

Several people have been injured after a series of explosions across London.
The BBC News website is covering events as they unfold:

1055 A doctor tells Reuters there are at least 90 casualties at Aldgate station

1053 Home Secretary Charles Clarke makes a statement outside Downing Street about "dreadful incidents" causing "terrible injuries". He says Prime Minister Tony Blair has been informed and advises the public in London not to make unneccessary journeys

1049 Police say there are serious casualties, but no deaths are confirmed, Associated Press reports

1025 The BBC's Andrew Marr, with the prime minister in Gleneagles, says Number 10 is "still unsure" whether the explosions are a terrorist attack

1023 confirmed explosion on a bus in Tavistock Place

1021 Scotland Yard reports "multiple explosions" in London, the Press Association reports

1014 An eyewitness tells PA that a bus has been ripped apart in an explosion in central London

1009 Witness Christina Lawrence, who was on a train leaving Kings Cross, tells BBC News 24: "There was a loud bang in the tunnel and the train just stopped and all of a sudden it was filled with black, gassy smoke and we couldn't breathe"

1002 Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident"

0940 British Transport Police say power surge incidents have occurred on the Underground at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square stations

0933London Underground reports "another incident at Edgware Road" station, PA reports

0933 Passengers are told that all London Underground services are being suspended because of a power fault across the network, PA reports

0924 British Transport Police say the incident was possibly caused by a collision between two trains, a power cut or a power cable exploding. Police report "walking wounded"

0915 Press Association reports emergency services called to London's Liverpool Street Station after reports of an explosion

0849 An incident on the Metropolitan Line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate is reported to British Transport Police

by Muc Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:49

vodafone has shut down operations i think in case your having trouble getting through.

hope everyone is ok:(

by DV8 Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:53

The mobiles are back up and running. They seem to think a decision was taken to bring them all down for a short while. Still yet to hear of several relatives/friends myself. Police have just announced the first two deaths at Aldgate.

by fists are my only weapons Thu Jul 07, 2005 13:07

as security forces look the other way
The bombing in London bears all the hallmarks of cold blooded right wing al-ciaeda lunatics who set off bombs with No warning.

Republican and irish terrrorists always phone in prior warnings.
Once again security forces have let us all down, choosing to concentrate on targeting UNARMED left wing/anarchist protestors and the comical clown army, and protecting the rich in Gleneagles instead of protecting the ordinary public in London from the serious and more dangerous element within right wing fascist lunatics groups such as Al-ciaeda.

Only right wing fascist nutcases would target double decker sight seeing tourist buses packed with international tourists.

by DV8 Thu Jul 07, 2005 13:14

The cops think the explosion on the bus might have been a suicide bomber.

by .:. iosaf ·.· ipsiphi Thu Jul 07, 2005 13:43

but "don't panic", it is a usual response for the mobile telephone networks to be taken off, there was no surprise in this, the phones will work later, keep trying.
Just remember that phones are used to detonate as well call loved ones.

It would be a good idea for the Irish authorities to set up an information line. London is home to many hundred of thousands of Irish people. An attack of this scale, has been a foregone conclusion for some time, and its timing was almost taken for granted.

by - Thu Jul 07, 2005 13:50

"I'm just going to make a short statement to you on the terrible events that have happened in London earlier today.

"And I hope you understand that at the present time we are still trying to establish exactly what has happened.

"There is a limit to what information I can give you and I'll simply try and tell you the information as best I can at the moment.

"It is reasonably clear that there have been a series of terrorist attacks in London.

"There are obviously casualties, both people who have died and people who are seriously injured, and our thoughts and prayers, of course, are with the victims and their families.

"It is my intention to leave the G8 within the next couple of hours and go down to London and get a report face-to-face with the police and the emergency services and the ministers who have been dealing with this and then to return later this evening.

"It is the will of all the leaders of the G8, however, that the meeting should continue in my absence, that we should continue to discuss the issues that we were going to discuss and reach the conclusions that we were going to reach.

"Each of the countries round that table have some experience of the effects of terrorism and all the leaders, as they will indicate a little bit later, share our complete resolution to defeat terrorism.

"It is particularly barbaric that this has happened on a day when people are meeting to try to help the problems of poverty in Africa and the long term problems of climate change and the environment.

"Just as it is reasonably clear that this is a terrorist attack or a series of terrorist attacks it is also reasonably clear that it is designed and aimed to coincide with the opening of the G8.

"There will be time to talk later about this.

"It is important, however, that those engaged in terrorism realise that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people in a desire impose extremism on the world.

"Whatever they do it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilised nations throughout the world.

"Thank you."
******************************************************
Emergency Lines :-
Irish residents - 1800 242548
From Britain 0207 2012508/ 0207 2012501.

by R Thu Jul 07, 2005 14:01

Need to be careful on source of media.

Ryan Tubbridy: 20 dead

BBC website: 2 dead

by DV8 Thu Jul 07, 2005 14:05

Israeli Minister Denies Scotland Yard Warning
Thursday, July 07, 2005

JERUSALEM — Israel was not warned about possible terror attacks in London before a series of blasts ripped through the city, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom (search) said Thursday.

A Foreign Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity, had said earlier that British police warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terror attacks minutes before the first explosion.

"There was no early information about terrorist attacks," Shalom told Israel Army Radio later. "After the first explosion an order was given that no one move until things become clear. "

Israel was holding an economic conference in a hotel over the London subway stop where one of the blasts occurred. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (search) was supposed to attend the conference, but "after the first explosion our finance minister received a request not to go anywhere," Shalom said.

He said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.

The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet (search).

All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.

The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.

Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans."

Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 14:18

This is a place to report news - so do so.

If you want to be spoon fed news - go watch SkyNews

I'm sure there will be stories and reports from folks soon.

I'm listening to http://G8radio.net right now - they are trying to gather reports from Gleneagles and London at the same time.

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 14:21

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316983.html

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 14:41

• Gavin's doing a good round up news he finds....

Update 13.08
According to my London Underground sources there are people trapped on the Piccadilly Line between Russell Square and King’s Cross. The problem facing emergency services is the depth, at that point the tunnel, is between 150 and 200 feet down. People who have visited London may know these stations for their very long escalators.

http://www.gavinsblog.com/?p=2269

by . Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:11

.

Bus

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:12

crappy graphic but it will do for now

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:24

London dispatches
I was at Canary Wharf this morning when the trains stopped. Most people seemed resigned to walking to work. The mobile networks are too busy to use and the entire bus and rail system is down. Now, I'm back at home and there's an endless stream of sirens coming to the nearby Royal London Hospital which is receiving the casualties from the Aldgate explosion.

http://www.freedominst.org/2005/07/london-dispatches.html

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:28

Announcement on London's Operation 7/7/2005

Jamaat al-Tandheem Al-Sierri (secret organization group)
Organization of Qaeda't al-Jihad in Europe

In the name of God the most merciful...

Rejoice the nation of Islam, rejoice nation of Arabs, the time of revenge has come for the crusaders' Zionist British government.

As retaliation for the massacres which the British commit in Iraq and Afghanistan, the mujahideen have successfully done it this time in London.

And this is Britain now burning from fear and panic from the north to the south, from the east to the west.

We have warned the brutish governments and British nation many times.

And here we are, we have done what we have promised. We have done a military operation after heavy work and planning, which the mujahideen have done, and it has taken a long time to ensure the success of this operation.

And we still warn the government of Denmark and Italy, all the crusader governments, that they will have the same punishment if they do not pull their forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

So beware.

Thursday 7/7/2005
Jamaat al-Tandheem Al-Sierri (secret organization group)
Organization of al Qaeda't al-Jihad in Europe.

Source:
http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000884.php

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:34

Wikipedia...
7 July 2005 London bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_London_transport_explosions

Flickr Images....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/london/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/underground/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/bomb/

Technorati Tags
http://technorati.com/search/london
http://technorati.com/search/%22london+blast%22

by greyblogger Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:38

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523183,00.html

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:40

'Click on the map to zoom in and find your station, or choose from the list of lines on the right for a list of stations along that line.

To see a list of stations with weblogs already registered'
http://londonbloggers.iamcal.com/map.php

BBC screenshot

by redjade Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:41

http://planetoftheblogs.com/

by Andy Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:48

Just heard a supposed suicide bomber has been shot dead by police near Canary Wharf. This aint going to be good for the Muslim Londonders, trigger happy (institutionally racist) cops and a general sense of panic. Lets hope this is the end of it.

by Pol Thu Jul 07, 2005 15:56

Over on the UK indymedia site, they're already coming out of the woodwork with a million and one theories as to who really did it. They're all there, from Mossad to the Freemasons... everyone it would seem bar Al-Qaieda.
You have to wonder why....
I mean what's so lovely about Al-Qaieda that they can't even be held responsible for a crime they admit to having done?
When that Nazi ran amok killing gays and bombing Brick Lane in London where where Mossad and the freemasons then?
Al-Qaieda and these Islamicist nuts are just as obscurantist, repressive and violent as any other right-wing group.

by iosaf Thu Jul 07, 2005 16:03

Many of us have relatives and friends in London. Perhaps more of us (using this site) have relatives and friends in London than were in Madrid last year. But this mornings attack touches us all. I'm in Barcelona and texts come from friends as they try to hear from their loved ones in London. It is one of those cities which arguably can be considered a "capital" of Europe. And the bombsites are located very close to three of the hubs of the cities transport system. Every morning over 2million commuters go through that system. It is perhaps significant that whomever committed these acts, chose to concentrate on the eastern financial hub, neither Victoria or Waterloo station with more "traffic" were hit.
A group has claimed responsibilty, calling themselves "The Secret Organisation Group of Al-Qa'ida of Jihad Organisation in Europe", saying it was revenge for afghanistan and iraq and that italy and denmark are next. The claims were made in Arabic on a website with the address
http://www.qal3ah.net/b
And this message has been picked up through arabic monitoring, but comes from an unknown group. The British Home Secretary has so far not confirmed that "alqeada" are responsible. You will remember that the first group to claim September 11 was a japanese one, and that Alqeada denied involvement. You will also remember the morning of March 11. The British have long prepared complex response systems to such an attack, and as part of that there is a general news-reduction, this is aimed at reducing panic. Thus official death figures are being kept as low as possible.

I think it is important that this be seen as terrorism.
It is not an attack on the G8. It is an attack on ordinary londoners. T

hat much said, the after-effect will be one of very deep resonance psychological trauma. 15% of madrid's population were declared clinically depressed after the train attack. & I would think it is best for the moment not to draw un-neccesary comparisons with either "9/11" or "M11"

& a.s.a.p. to get our "dissenters" home from scotland, as many of them will be psychologically effected by this as well.

-dont jump to conclusions. remember the dead. RIP-

by Someone Thu Jul 07, 2005 16:27

Islamits did it? Being Islamist doesn't mean being stupid. All those who are suffering the invasion of the West know that ordinary people support them. They're not fools. Anyone with tow inches of brain would target the bastards of the G8 Summit and their interests. Just think, please: to whom does it benefit to masacre civilians? Who is openly financing and supporting civilian murderers like the Israeli zionists, for instance? Who doesn't have problems with seeing ordinary civilians die in Iraq, Palestine, New York, Madrid or London?
J u s t t h i n k, p l e a s e.

by Geoff Dolan Thu Jul 07, 2005 16:54

As usual it is the "right wing" freaks trying to score points so they can feel smug about themselves by accusing indymedia of being al qaeda supporters and any other useless bile they can throw.

I insert right wing in en quotes because there are intelligent people with conservative views who would not use the deaths of people for petty mud slinging.

The truth is there are dead people in London as we speak.Have some respect and leave your petty rethorical games for at least a full day.

There are people who run this site with friends and family over there.Stevo Olende, who is the anti shell activist associated with this site, got back to me saying for now he knows his immediate family are safe. I am glad of this.

The statement from al q was put up as news, not propaganda.Why would pro gay rights, etc people like indymedia want to suppport al q? You trolls all know this, yet you seem to lack some capacity for human decency by engaging in petty slagning matches.

Leave it out. You gain nothing except contempt from people.Just cop on. Have respect.Your blathering is not big and not clever. You disgust me, trolls, with your inherent stupidity.

My condolences to all of you affected by this tragedy.I hope for strength for those that will need it in the next few days, if not years.

I am sure that there will be a good number of people with all shades of opinion that will collect themselves over the next few days and engage in rational debate about the wheres, whens and whys related to this atrocity.

For now, let us spare a thought for the people at the brunt of this and their families.

by By Any Means Necessary Thu Jul 07, 2005 17:02

In solidarity with all of you who have the human decency to not dance on the graves of the dead, to respect the resistance of the human spirit to oppression.

My family is safe and I hope that you and yours are as well.

by shipsea Thu Jul 07, 2005 17:14

I agree with 'Someone's' comments. These bombings have taken place at exactly the right time to distract attention from the objectives of the Make Poverty History campaign. The world is now refocussed on the terrorist threat. Who benefits from that??? The G8 summit will have required intense security on a national basis and it seems extraordinary that this could have happened at this point in time. As with 9/11, Madrid (just before the election - excpet that one backfired) and other attacks there is something distinctly fishy about this.
Is there any support group for victims? Can we send donations to any organisation?

by DV8 Thu Jul 07, 2005 18:48

Short statement on the bombs in London today:

"Indymedia UK stands in solidarity with all the victims of today's horrific attacks in London. We share the disgust felt by all about these acts and their perpetrators, our thoughts are with the victims and their families. We are also acutely aware that these events will be exploited by the most reactionary elements of the British media and political establishment for their own selfish purposes.

We are particularly concerned about a possible backlash against Britain's Muslim community as we saw following 9/11 in the USA. We urge all activists involved in progressive politics to do everything they can to stop this from happening. Now is the time to be building bridges between all communities as we have seen with the anti-war movement. Don't feel helpless, do something.

We will continue to give a voice to all who have an opinion on these events and have little or no voice in the mainstream media. Our usual editorial guidelines apply.
IMC'ista, 07.07.2005 16:15

by Devil Dog Thu Jul 07, 2005 20:29

Indymedia UK on the ball - there was no "backlash" against Muslims in the US following 9/11, except for a handful of isolated incidents.

Sherlock, the attacks in London are not a "tragedy". A tragedy is a kid dying of cancer - this was cold, deliberate mass murder.

I particularly like the use of the epithet "right wing" to describe the murderers, as if Conservatives have anyting in common with these deluded murderers - how's that for "political point scoring", eh?

by R. Isible Thu Jul 07, 2005 21:21

ACLU accuses Justice Dept of misusing law - BBC
Dept of Justice confirms abuses involving over 1200 Muslim men
Hate crimes against Muslims up about 50%, but more importantly government civil rights abuses up
It should be noted that CAIR have made some mistakes in the past in their acceptance of specific incidents as hate crimes, but no one has challenged the figures in this report and you can be sure the right-wing ideologues who watch them and jump on every error would have pointed them out by now.
Now, if you're going to come up with some weird, minor sub-definition of a "backlash" then forget it: I'm using it in it's ordinary sense.
More people that are, or appear to be (*) Muslim have suffered false imprisonment by the US state or assaults (verbal and physical) after 9/11 than before.

* In one bizarre incident north of Los Angeles a Lation man was dragged from his truck and beaten by skinheads that thought he was Muslim.

by R. Isible Thu Jul 07, 2005 22:40

The Message of Terror
London's Burning

By GILAD ATZMON

We are used to seeing images of horrors from the Iraqi capital. For most Londoners and Britons, those images are nothing more than a remote call from a foreign country. Somehow, most of us have managed to forget that it is basically our government who is responsible for the continued horror in Iraq.

Today's images of horror are coming from London, seemingly, Baghdad and London appear to share a very similar fate.

I am sitting in my front room watching BBC 24 learning that the metropolitan police and the emergency services are operating according to a plan. Clearly they all anticipated such an attack. A government that is fully engaged in some criminal colonialist activity better prepare its voters for the outcome of its policies.

CLICK LINK BELOW FOR MORE:

by magnus Thu Jul 07, 2005 23:56

I live in the US. There was no organized or concerted backlash against muslims in this country. There's 296,556,887 people in the USA - how many "incidents" have there been reported? Couple of thousand? How have deaths? How many people were murdered on 9/11?

There's been more racism in Dublin in the last year than there has been a backlash against Muslims here in the last 4...

by Badman Fri Jul 08, 2005 01:03

your two line anecdotal experience is worth far more than statistical evidence.

by iosaf Fri Jul 08, 2005 01:22

We as a movement, and a website, are presently closely engaged in a democratic process of protest against the annual G8 summit, a process which annually sees us accused of supporting and giving oxygen to behaviour which pushes the envelope of civil disobedience.
We debate it every year.
There are already knee jerk reactions of "compare" London 7/7 with Madrid 11/3 and NYC 11/9, yet no comparison is worthwhile without "contrast". It is a sad sign of the blinkered narrow minded world vision of many that Casablanca, Ankara, Indonesia do not enter the "remember that atrocity" list.
We do not measure terrorist acts in the number of casualties, murdered or wounded. We often rate them in their mass-psychological effect. What occured yesterday in London will have more effect on Londoners than any car bomb in Baghdad.

For the moment, our priority as a "movement" as a website, ought be the support of those who are in a "conflict" situation, allbeit expressing their democratic right to protest, and their moral right to highlight the inequalities and blatent injustice of the what is represented by the G8.

What has occured is effecting them now, it has effected them today, it will effect them tomorrow.
Many of them come from London, a good deal of them are not normally resident in Britain.

It is to my mind significant, and also to those experienced activists with whom I've spoken today, that those same groups who today call for the "protest to continue" are the very same groups who disowned the fence breach less than two days ago.

From bcn, having talked to members of "support" groups for catalan, spanish, basque, french, german, danish, italian and other nationalities present in Scotland now, I have the impression that many "here" believe [(in error - my opinion)] that the british people, and more importantly the british and london police forces in Scotland guarding the G8 will now wonder at the UK's involvement in the Iraq war.

the UK is not in the final days of an election process, where one side has committed to withdrawl from Iraq.

The Blair political regime/machine has smoothly put into gear its emergency response to the long awaited and vaunted terrorist attack. Mr Blair himself expressed the belief it would come before his 5/5/05 election. A vital part of that response is the downplaying of carnage and panic, and strict control of news. To be quite honest, it is not clear whether or not London considers itself to be under a "sustained terrorist attack". If the bombs were mobile phone detonated rather than timers, the cutting of the network yesterday morning ended the attack. If the bombs were suicide attacks then we may allow ourselves the supposition that all attackers are now dead. 8 bombs in such a time span do not suggest as some analysts earlier said and wrote (outside of the British tightly maintained "d notice" media machine) a team of at least 24 terrorists. It might have been a group as little as 6. There is so far no conclusive evidence to believe that the attacks were thus "once off".

Now I could write till the cows come home on "compare & contrast" but for the moment it is not useful. London with 2000 less police was bound to be less well guarded. Others will write that.
The popularism of both the MPH rallies and the Olympics were bound to provoke extremism especially considering the blanket ban on "war talk" adhered to by all who took part in the pre-G8 publicity. It is worth noting that the Egyptian state has after Libya been the most outspoken african nation in criticising the G8 strategy and has in the last weeks seen increased tension with Israel on its border, yet was not exempt from terror in Iraq, its government confirming in the last hour that its ambassador has been murdered.

When we speak, write, or treat upon terrorists, either of the cellular professional or suicide type we are dealing with individuals of a narrow psychological disposition who _respond_ and -react_ to political situations in very predictable ways.

Enough of that. WE have protesters, at this moment in a seriously changed situation in Scotland. They have not made the change.
They are not the "terrorists". But just as the protesters in London at the arms fair on September 11 reacted to the twin towers, many of those in Scotland will have reacted similarly.
The difference being, the next day, the london arms fair protesters were at home. The dissenters of Scotland have been "psyching-up" for their daily conflicts "in the name of democracy" for some time now. My word to them, would be-

"Keep calm. the bombing of London has not made or altered the point you are making. There are many who will argue that London would not have been bombed if its police were not there now guarding you. There are many who will blame Blair for that, there are many who will blame you for that."

Tog a bog é.

by Disgusted Fri Jul 08, 2005 03:50

Check the link below. Israelis calling on a World War against Arabs. Zionists seem to have found in the London attacks the excuse they want to massacre Palestinians and more. Who benefits from this is starting to show. I would love to hear what the victims of the London attacks think, I only hope they have the humanity and dignity shown by the Spanish (far from Arab hatred, Madrid is full of Spaniards wearing kufiyas, and the victims of the March 11 attacks are suffering death threats from fascist elements because they refuse to let the deads of their loved ones be used politically!!!)

by Blame the perps for a change Fri Jul 08, 2005 06:45

: Zionists seem to have found in the London attacks the excuse they want to massacre Palestinians and more."

Psst, it's the Muslims doing the massacres...

by Chekov Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:48

"Psst, it's the Muslims doing the massacres..."

No it's not. A very small number of muslims are presumed responsible for this atrocity. You can't tar them all with the same brush unless you also accept that 'christians' are responsible for every action that any christian takes. If you wanted to look at the world in such a way, you'd also have to conclude that christians are a far bloodthirstier lot than muslims - but that would be a ridiculous and racist way of looking at the world.

Fortunately, I reckon that most people can see that the people who share responsibility for "doing the massacres" are those individuals who carry them out, give the orders, do the planning, raise the money and lend support to them and not those people who happen to share the same religion as the perpatrators.

It's also always worth reminding yourself that, while the people who bear some responsibility for the atrocity in London yesterday are very few in number, vastly more people bear some responsibility for the much larger massacres in Iraq.

by Reality Check Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:58

Just in case anybody actually thought the above-referenced Jerusalem Post article (by an individual columnist) actually called for a worldwide war on Arabs, it actually calls for a war with "international Islamist terror".

The paragraph in question is: 'MUCH HAS been said in recent years about the vital need for international cooperation. There is no doubt that this is essential. Yet no measure of this will suffice and it cannot replace the requirement that each and every country effectively declare itself at war with international Islamist terror and recruit the public to involve itself actively in the battle, under the direction of the legal powers that be.'

This is just more typical Indymedia anti-Semitic nonsense dressed up in pretending to care about Muslims.

by Noel Fri Jul 08, 2005 13:15

'more people bear some responsibility for the much larger massacres in Iraq'

I suspect Chekov is not referring to the decapitations or car bombs which are perpetrated by Islamists.

by Chekov Fri Jul 08, 2005 13:26

I was referring to all of the massacres of civilians in Iraq. The beheadings of hostages, the marketplace IEDs _and_ the 100,000 or so Iraqis killed by the occupying troops.

by Barry Fri Jul 08, 2005 13:35

I believe he may be referring to things like the British and US sponsored sanctions which caused the unnecessary and preventable deaths of almost 2 million people in Iraq . That was a case were the Iraqi civilian population were defined as legitimate targets by the western powers .

And also the illegal invasion of that country where around 100,000 innocent civilians were massacred by British and US troops . And things like Fallujah which was reduced to rubble and many of its civilian inhabitants liquidated .

But because these massive atrocities were perpetrated by white men in nice business suits rather than nasty people with beards and turbans who lurk about in caves and things they dont really count as atrocities and therefore we shouldnt mention them .

by Sean Mac Cathmhaoil Fri Jul 08, 2005 15:57

In the aftermath of the London Bombings all our thoughts should be with all the victims of this atrocity. There will be no bigger victim in this atrocity we should be thinking more of than the muslim community in London.
As history has taught us about the British establishment is that when this sort of attack happens on British soil, British police and intellegence services go on a witch hunt to find the people they deem responsible.
As was seen with the Birmingham six and Guilford four it is not possible to ignore the fact that young innocent muslim men will be arrested under the terrorism act to appease public disgust at the events in London, and to show that the British intellegence/security services are capable of doing something to bring the justice to the people of London. And judging on the press in Britain today, a media witch hunt will be media fueled. Remember the five innocent republicans arrested in the aftermath of Omagh

by Reality Check Fri Jul 08, 2005 16:14

Even if a young Muslim man/woman is searched, arrested, interrogated, or even wrongly jailed by the British police - how could they be a "bigger victim" than the people who are actually dead today or those person's families.
At the very least, they'll still have their lives.
Explain this please because I genuinely don't understand.

by redjade Fri Jul 08, 2005 16:33

They're winning.
July 07, 2005
And tomorrow, when the papers and RTE and the blogs and the Indymedia playpens are filled to capacity with the sadly predictable rhetoric blaming the victims for living in a 'crusader' capital, blaming Tony Blair, blaming George W Bush, blaming Western capitalism, blaming oil companies, blaming everyone -- except the people who actually set off the bombs killing, at last count, nearly 50 people; except the people who taught them to kill as an act of worship -- they will have won again.

more at
http://richarddelevan.blogspot.com/2005/07/theyre-winning.html

by A question of Numbers Fri Jul 08, 2005 17:15

"It's also always worth reminding yourself that, while the people who bear some responsibility for the atrocity in London yesterday are very few in number, vastly more people bear some responsibility for the much larger massacres in Iraq."

There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world.
If only 1% of them are bad guys, bent on world domination, willing to slaughter innocents for their political/religious gain; it's hardly "very few in number"
It looks like it's going to be a long fight (been going on since the 7thy century

by eeekkk Fri Jul 08, 2005 17:21

where did you get that 'figure'?
your islamophobe ass?

by By Any Means Necessary Fri Jul 08, 2005 17:25

I think that you should look at the use of terror by the state to stop terrorism..it does not work.
It has never worked.

The war against terror is a disaster and only perpetuates the divisions that cause disaffection, anger and individual terrorism.

The answer is to work with the Islamic community and give them the same freedoms that we would want, if we were from a community where a small section was preaching : murdering innocents, supporting state oppression and invoking religous intolerance.

You cannot bomb resistance to oppression.

by Chekov Fri Jul 08, 2005 17:33

"Do the Math"

We call it maths here and, thank you, I will.

"There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. If only 1% of them are bad guys, bent on world domination, willing to slaughter innocents for their political/religious gain; it's hardly "very few in number"

I think this is a vast over-estimation of the proportion of people who support the massacres carried out by islamic fundamentalists in any way. Even if we were to accept your dubious figures though, we only get 15 million pepple. On the other hand roughly 50% of the US population (about 90 million people) appear to support the invasion and massacre of 100,000 or so innocents. What's more, a good 60% of the population voted for candidates in the presidential election who supported this massacre as against something less than 1% who voted for a candidate who was opposed to the massacre - and that's only looking at a single western country. An even greater number have done absolutely nothing to stop the massacre despite living in what is supposedly a democracy.

I'm all for personal responsibility, me. I guess that you're somebody who just wants other people to take responsibility for their crimes.

It looks like it's going to be a long fight (been going on since the 7thy century"

by R. Isible Fri Jul 08, 2005 18:50

QUOTE: "60% of the population voted for candidates in the presidential election"

No, that was 60% of those that were actually _voted_, not even 60% of the _eligible voters_. See link for references:

by sean mac cathmhaoil Fri Jul 08, 2005 20:31

Like the post september 11 era in the states, scores of innocent people were interned under the Patriot act never to be seen again.
The UK has strengthened their terrorism act since september 11th also. And it is a fear that Belmarsh will become a miniture Guantanamo Bay over the issue. The terrorism act allows interment without trial of suspected terrorists, interigate prisoners without the presence of legal representation and hold closed door trials. The fear is that young muslim men may be treated the same in the coming days as young Irish people were during the seventies and eighties in Britain. This has nothing to do with republicanism by the way, only a concern about british justice. It is a sad thing that in this day and age the British establishment is still racist.

by chekov Sat Jul 09, 2005 13:31

Kerry also supported the massacre of Iraqis. I correct it to say that 60 % of registered voters voted for candidates who supported the massacres. The point remains that those people who bang on about personal responsibility and against taking responsibility for their actions seem to never accept any responsibility for the massacring of people in the poor parts of the world.

by redjade Sat Jul 09, 2005 13:41

July 07, 2005
Steven Emerson on MSNBC on London Attacks

Steven Emerson appeared on MSNBC this morning (full trasnscript now available) to discuss the London terrorist bombings and asked me to post the highlights:

"Increasingly it's looking as a British intelligence official told me this morning not more than an hour ago, that he used the term, ‘Our North African boys’, meaning some of the North African type of militant Muslim groups and individuals who were responsible for the Spanish attacks in 2003 that have a very striking similarity to the attacks that were carried out this morning in London...There is an interconnected network of Algerians, of Moroccans, of Saudis operating throughout Europe and it certainly coincides with the opening of the trial of Abu Hamza al-Masri who is a radical Islamic cleric in London whose is charged with incitement has been indicted in the United States on charges of trying to set up a jihad training camp in Oregon...

more at
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the_counterterrorism_blog/2005/07/steven_emerson_.html

by redjade Sat Jul 09, 2005 14:46

This is an interesting read.

This is from a Pro-War on Terror/but highly critical of the Iraq War (but not Anti Iraq War) Blog by US Military guys - the leading Blogger who will soon be sent off to Iraq.

So thier 7/7 Bombing analysis needs to be seen in that nuanced light....

- - -

They also no doubt hoped to pick off another member of the Iraq coalition (which raises the inference that the proximate precipitator of this attack was the Spanish government’s perceived accession to the terrorist demand to withdraw from Iraq). As I indicated above, I am skeptical that this intention will have much effect with regards to Britain. But ironically, another member of the coalition has chosen this moment to raise the white flag to terrorist demands. Citing a fear that Italy might be next, the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, apparently hopes to pre-empt the terrorists by reiterating that Italian forces will be withdrawn from Iraq beginning in September to perform anti-terrorism service at home. While these withdrawals were not unexpected given the considerable tensions between the US and Italy on Iraq-related issues and Berlusconi’s own vulnerable political position, Berlusconi’s sua sponte linkage of the withdrawal with the London attacks strikes me as highly unfortunate. And a stark contrast to the great-hearted stalwartness of the actual victims of this craven attack.

more at
http://inteldump.powerblogs.com/posts/1120894911.shtml

by redjade Sat Jul 09, 2005 14:58

Unfortunately, what we may find is that this group had few, if any, direct ties to known al Qaeda entities. In fact, it is likely to be an operation accomplished completely by terrorist entrepreneurs that are using it to gain entry (through contribution) into al Qaeda.

The reason this is a likelihood is that al Qaeda is not a cohesive organization anymore. Their network has given way to an even looser but more potent form of development: open source warfare. In this model, autonomous groups arise, innovate, plan, and act locally without central direction. Al Qaeda merely serves as the final arbiter of the attack's efficacy to the articulated war plan -- endorsement of the action and the group, comes after the operation is accomplished. Success, in this model, is the only barrier to entry.

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2005/07/journal__a_caut.html

Also see:
'open source warfare'
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/09/bazaar_dynamics.html

by redjade Sat Jul 09, 2005 15:50

http://www.werenotafraid.com

email your images to [email protected]

WeAreNotAfraid.com

by R. Isible Sat Jul 09, 2005 17:57

Chekov wrote: Kerry also supported the massacre of Iraqis. I correct it to say that 60 % of registered voters voted for candidates who supported the massacres.

Oh, I'm aware of Kerry being, if anything, more of a warmonger than Bush. But remember that means about 72 million people voted for warmongers which is about 33% of the eligibile voters or 24% of the population. I think it's important that the point that most of the people of the USA are not actively endorsing the government, or the main opposition, shouldn't get lost.

Chekov wrote: The point remains that those people who bang on about personal responsibility and against taking responsibility for their actions seem to never accept any responsibility for the massacring of people in the poor parts of the world.

Fully accepted.

by redjade Sat Jul 09, 2005 18:14

....I think: replace the words "postcards" with blogs, and "English" with that multicultural mixture of young black, asian and white Brits, Aussies and Polish plumbers that is the London workforce and you're getting close to understanding what's going on. Of course all the details have changed: the cops carry MP-5s, the bus conductors are not so good tempered etc. But...

This is a generation that is mightily proud of itself for things like Live8, for the Euro96 tournament and taking football back from the yobs, for the feistiness of the young women who wander round in confident packs during happy hour, for its tolerance, for UK Garage, for winning the 2012 Olympics with a bid that included cross-cultural community organisations in the East End. It is clear from a lot of the blogs that the bombs were seen as an attack on all that....

by R. Isible Sun Jul 10, 2005 00:20

I thought, this is the worst thing I have ever seen. I am not very good in enclosed spaces at the best of times and we had to climb over bodies and body parts to try to help people and see who was still alive. I thought this is the end of the world, right here in this carriage, but you have to do your job.

I found a man and his leg had been blown off below the knee, there was another body next to him. There was also what I thought was a pile of clothes but as I passed to try and get to the man, it moaned and asked me for help. It was a woman. She had all her limbs blown off. I think she died on the concourse.

by redjade Sun Jul 10, 2005 19:02

The Sunday Tribune's weekly column on blogging gives exclusive coverage to role played by blogs in the bombing of London last Thursday. Columnist Joe Bloggs cites Flickr, Peter Nolan, Confederacy of a Dunce, Slugger O'Toole and The Guardian.

Links and Tribune extracts at...
http://irish.typepad.com/classroom/2005/07/sunday_tribune_.html

by redjade Sun Jul 10, 2005 19:03

Middle East and North Africa Friday Blog Roundup
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/globalvoices/?p=314

by redjade Mon Jul 11, 2005 13:51

The statement was in Arabic. The instances of British Muslim participation in terrorism given in the CNN piece were all non-Arabs: Richard Reid and several South Asian British, all of whom undertook operations abroad rather than in the UK. None of them probably even knew Arabic well or could compose a statement in it. Britain's South Asian Muslim community is almost certainly not the origin of this attack. The statement celebrated Arabness or `urubah along with Islam. No Bangladeshi-Briton or Pakistani-Briton wrote that.

The statement was probably not written by a second-generation Arab Briton or even by a long-term, integrated Arab Briton resident.

So, if the statement is a guide to the identity of the attackers, this bombing could not have emanated from the British Muslim community.

I did a keyword search in OCLC Worldcat, an electronic database with 40 million volumes, for `urubah and Islam. Virtually all of the hits came from Egyptian Muslim thinkers publishing in Cairo and Giza during the past 30 years, roughly in a Muslim Brotherhood tradition. Egyptian Muslim revivalist intellectual Muhammad Amara wrote the big book on Uruba and Islam. Likewise, there was a book on Islam and uruba in Darfur, presumably supporting the Sudanese government (the Fur of Darfur are Muslims and often know Arabic, and the Arabic-speaking Sudanese living there are a minority, with whom the Fur will intermarry. The Arabic speakers, who look just like the Fur in being black Africans, have engaged in predations against the Fur in the past few years, with tens of thousands killed, even as some of the Fur sought greater regional autonomy from Khartum).

My guess is that the author of the statement is Egyptian or Sudanese, with some sort of intellectual genealogy in the radical fringes of the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps al-Zawahiri's al-Jihad al-Islami.

Of course, all of this is premised on the statement being a guide to the perpetrators, which we cannot know for sure. But everything else above follows pretty tightly if it is.

by roy quigley Mon Jul 11, 2005 18:33 royquigs at hotmail dot com

I live and work in london, I travel on the tube everyday
I have to say it was only a matter of time befour London was to have a bomb
I cry when I see the tv. I will go to traveling on the tube. as I have always done But I am afraid. may god Bless
everyone that lost a loved one. in the dreadful events for last week

by letters and numbers Mon Jul 11, 2005 18:55

& try not to give weight to one over others.
If you wish add Iraq to the list, then you must have already have put Palestine on the list.
The little information on the http://www.qal3ah.net/b site which was seen as the first "claiming" had mistakes in the arabic.
One of the underlying causes of extremist terrorism is the hopelessness of life in the third world, and if one wants to be "muslim" specific, one must remember that compounding the perceived injustice to Palestinians, the war on and now in Iraq, there is a world which stretches from Morrocco to Afghanistan where the average male age is under 35, and the average level of literacy (in either arabic or urdu) is very low.
Morrocco itself is divided into many regions, and is not one "arabic" homogenous culture, though the kingdom wishes to achieve such. There are serious problems of militarisation and anger in Western Sahara, there are "curves" which bring "cause" far from Iraq, which is as real a "reason" as the banner name "al qeada".

We can go several ways on this.
We may emotionally push for a withdrawl from Iraq outside of the establsihed exit strategy without addressing the injustice of Palestine.
We may "temporarily" allow the lowering of standards in civil rights, public accountability and transparent institutions of state emergency response, and hope that someday those millions of angry young men get bored of it all.
Or we preserve our normality, focus on recovery and most importantly of all, treat upon the inequalities and injustices of northern africa and how those injustices are perceived amongst the young to be the responsibility of European states and more importantly european city dwellers.

It is thus ironic that these events came during the "g8 africa" conference, when africa was talked upon by africans in Libya, and by westerners in Scotland as two very different continents.

Perhaps they need a "north africa conference".
But for the moment it is obvious that many people are "looking the wrong way".

by redjade Mon Jul 11, 2005 19:25

[• linking to this thread]

'Indymedia.ie provided the best edited flow of second-hand information and helped connect London-based Irish to friends back home.'

more at
http://irish.typepad.com/irisheyes/2005/07/0707_and_citize.html

by laura hughes Mon Jul 11, 2005 20:19 cypheaven at msn dot com 01782317765

After 4 days of listening to skys news of the tragedy of the fallen ,and of the pain that the families and that as a nation we are suffering i know and feel that we will be able to get back to some form of normality although it will not be the same as it was ubfortuntley we have fallen victim to terroisim and it has affected us all but together as a nation standing together we can start to rebuild what was and become stronger against the war of terroism They will be braught to justice and it will be prevailed my best thoughts are with you all at this time and hope that you find some kind of peace All together we stand tall all of us united in one thing we will not let them beat us we will carry on with thoughts of the fallen and the grieving famiilies forever by our sides thoughts with all . laura

by rooster Tue Jul 12, 2005 00:54

Hilarious to see red Ken who had licked around the Palestinian and republican terrorists over the years and now he has to reap what he has sown!

by Eleanor Schmidt Tue Jul 12, 2005 01:07 chuckele at mymtnhome dot com 335 C.R 484 MountIN Home, Ar. U.S.A 870-425-0534

I live in a small tpwn in Arakansas, U.S. A and have spent a good deal of time in New York. I just got back form Ireland.

There are too many good people in this world for the terrorists to win. We will no be afraid. We value or freedom above all else and no one will take it away from us.

by David and Chris Bowker Tue Jul 12, 2005 02:42

Bowkers of Tasmania. Sydney and Ireland Send you love and admiration - for your GB great Guts - love David, Chris Georgia ,Nick, and Renee Bowker

by xymphora Wed Jul 13, 2005 22:41

The birth of the London bomb Official Story
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/07/birth-of-london-bomb-official-story.html

You can practically hear the click at that moment in the life of every conspiracy when the police investigation turns into the Official Story. At that point, the investigation is intended to 'fix the facts' to the Official Story, and the cover-up begins.

by paul stroud glos Thu Jul 14, 2005 19:54

If keeping innocent people safe means turning Belmarsh into a British Guantanamo Bay ,or bringing in internment without trial for suspected terrorists or even interrogation without legal representation,then so be it .Maybe then the Muslim youth will stand up and condemn the filth that commit these horrendous acts in the name of Islam instead of bleating about rights.What about the rights of the dead and injured?

by R. Isible Thu Jul 14, 2005 19:58

That maybe the dead and injured and the grieving have people like _you_ to blame for their suffering? It takes the fundamentalists of both sides to (ab)use the innocent for their own ends.

Guantanamo and the use of torture and murder legitimises and provokes the atrocities. Scumbags like the London bombers need scumbags like you.

by snark Thu Jul 14, 2005 20:39

After all it is the american way

by paul Thu Jul 14, 2005 21:43 stroud glos

Maybe terrorists thrive and survive with the help of people like you making very pitiful excuses for their diabolical actions.

by Noel Thu Jul 14, 2005 22:07

'Guantanamo and the use of torture'

Torture : Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.

Playing loud Britney.
Handling their prison issued korans with gloves.
Having women too close.

Check. Check. Check.

And we wonder why they hate us?

by Dave Thu Jul 14, 2005 23:32

"Maybe then the Muslim youth will stand up and condemn the filth that commit these horrendous acts in the name of Islam...."

Yeah -probably when all white people stand up and condemn the horrendous acts committed in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".

by Reality Check Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:08

Arm yourself with these scarcely believable statistics for the next time you're told that it is only a minority who support activity such as this. The final paragraphs sum up what we're contending with - the figures would not have been as high in Nazi Germany.

Long cut and paste available at link below removed. Please do not cut and paste material that is available at a link. See our Editorial Guidelines. Thanks. 1 of IMC Ed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050714/ts_nm/muslims_binladen_dc

by derek Fri Jul 15, 2005 15:01

"Having women too close.....
Check. Check. Check...
And we wonder why they hate us?"

Jaysus, we better stay away from the women then. Religious fanaticism and intolerance to others perhaps might be a factor in this?

by paul Fri Jul 15, 2005 15:18 stroud glos

So its an horrendous act to remove a dictator who murders his own people with weapons of mass destruction i.e.marsh arabs with poison gas.I should imagine similar excuses were made when Hitler decided to eradicate the Jews .Or perhaps you dont believe the Jews were and still are being persecuted.(oh by the way thats the muslims that are murdering the jews whats the excuse for that?)

by letters and numbers Tue Jul 26, 2005 21:00

at 5h55 on the 11th of July
I said in a comment explaining the complexity of the issues and its africa dimension that

{Perhaps they need a "north africa conference".
But for the moment it is obvious that many people are "looking the wrong way".}

For what it is worth the british authorities have now said that two of the bombers they are looking for came from Eritrea and Somalia.

Eritrea & Somalia are in Africa, not Asia, and had very complicated relationships to the "impossible caliphate", both countries are over 7000km from the Pakistan Kashmir border.

Their most recent relationship to north africa, the west and cough cough Yemen is of more importance now.

Perhaps it might be in the public interest to rethink the "al qaeda" tag?