ebay management withdraw MI5 spy device form auction

by x Wed May 25, 2005 15:01

I got an email about this but I never had a chance to check the bidding out.

How much is it going for at the moment?

by Redbhoy Wed May 25, 2005 17:07

It was going for $2200. Breaking news.ie a few minutes ago!

by Tim Wed May 25, 2005 20:33

funny feeling Sein Fein have planted a few devices in their day as well, the only difference with the MI5 one is that it did'nt explode and kill and injure innocent people, will they put the gun that Murdered Jean McConville on EBAY,maybe gerry could write a letter to go with it (an apology)

by Dickie Rock Wed May 25, 2005 20:56

I thought MI5 planted a few explosives in Dublin and Monaghan in 1974. Biggest single atrocity of the Torubles, eh Tim.

Bugs the hell out of you, doesn't it.

by rooster Wed May 25, 2005 21:06

as they could have been accused of funding a terrorist organisation, if they had actually sold it big dubya bush might have popped a cruise missile into their head office ha ha ha

Sorry to disappoint you but it was an ASU from the 4th battalion of the UVF that did Dublin and Monaghan.

by Dickie Rock Wed May 25, 2005 21:14

"Sorry to disappoint you but it was an ASU from the 4th battalion of the UVF that did Dublin and Monaghan."

But I insist, MI5 had a hand in it and, in the context of taliking about 'devices', gave the UVF the essential ingredients (at the very least).

I'm sre this would all be clear today, had the Gardai not lost the file and ended the investigation with alarming efficiency, and had MI5 not had agents in the force, up to and including the then top cop.

But I digress..... (maybe the spy who made it will bid for it to get it back).

by iosaf Wed May 25, 2005 21:17

i recall (don't have time to search it out now) telling SF here, that presenting the device to Blair was a bit of a mistake, unless they had another one they had examined very carefully, and also, it was a bit of knee jerk reaction to give it Blair, for it might have been someone else's bug. But then Blair didn't accept it.

Suppose the tekkie heads of the Falls can make them cheaply now.

by Al Wed May 25, 2005 22:56

Dickie,
have you proof to back up your claims that the garda commiasioner was a spy? The guy spent 30 years to get to that position, thats some sleeper.
As for the device, surely MI5 could have used one of those James Bond style devices no bigger than a tic-tac?

by rooster Wed May 25, 2005 22:56

I suppose its too much to ask for proof dickie, or are you just gonna post crap like evryone else on this crackpot site?

by Seamus Ludlow Wed May 25, 2005 23:52

An extensive report on official and other enquiries into the Dublin Monaghan bombings is at:

www.atholbooks.org/archives/publicarchives/pastlabcom/labcomjan04.html

Fianna Fail, on their return to power in 1977, dismissed the then Garda Commissioner, Ned Garvey. Garvey sued and the then government settled because they refused to state openly the reason for his dismissal.

As noted at the time, this was a 'Fianna Fail cop out". But Garvey was gone, and that was the main thing.

The evidence of British intelligence involvement in the bombings is well grounded - click on the link.

by Tom Wed May 25, 2005 23:55

You yourself post more than your fair share of crap. And if you think this is a "crackpot site" then you should piss off elsewhere.

by rooster Thu May 26, 2005 04:27

at least I'm not lonely then!

by Al Thu May 26, 2005 07:15

So no proof whatsover other than rumour and hearsay.

by Curious Thu May 26, 2005 08:16

Now Al, being a cop and all, what is to stop you making your own enquiries in the force about the departure of Garvey. I am sure you can use your own detecting abilities. Come back to us when you have completed your enquiries.

On Dublin Monaghan, it was unfortunate that those files were lost, wasn't it. You are not saying that that is rumour, now are you? Neither is the fact that the enquiry was shut down very quickly - after the biggest mass murder in Irish history. The "unofficial" contacts between members of the force and foreign intelligence agencies that Justice Baron noted: what did you think of them? Turns out that Ned Garvey knew all about them. That's a fact too, isn't it.

Its great to have a cop commenting on the site. You can be our eyes and ears inside the force. Did you ever think of becoming a conscientious whistle blower, defending the public good? Good man yourself.

by Seán South Thu May 26, 2005 10:52

"surely MI5 could have used one of those James Bond style devices no bigger than a tic-tac?"
This device was meant for long term listening. All bugs need power thats why this one seems so big because of the battery back up. This was there for the long haul!

by tic-tac-toe!!!! - (iosaf) Thu May 26, 2005 11:57

which generally offers options:-
use a power source at the site you're monitoring.
Ah! but they carefully checked the bills, and weren't going to pay for any kilowatt hours they weren't sure they were using, regularly switching off all appliances and with a torch making sure the little dial wasn't moving in the meter like the best most paranoid types do for hours on 5-Meo-DMT or 2-CT-2 or what have you.

Why not use another power source to batteries, such as a replenishing source?
I suppose a new solar power panel and wind turbine might have been noticed on top of the Falls rd, and someone would have tracked the cable to the tictac.
Hmmmmm. Kinetic?
Gerry? i've noticed we've replaced all the usual seats with rocking chairs. the younger cumann members are complaining, Eoin keeps falling off.
Whomever put this device in, was certainly "in for the long haul", and also incapable it would seem of relying on tunneling devices, night time low flying nanotech drones, fibreoptic wall plugs, or directional microphonery. Perhaps all the other houses on the terrace/road are already taken...

I'm not going to upload the image that goes with all this, you can find it in the backwaters, (how do the archives power themselves?) here on a spy thread-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68198
in comment one. Good movie.
Take my advice, never say anything you don't mean. Shame the Divil Gerry & cumann types.
Be honest. best policy. You should see the spy shops in Barcelona, for some reason, we're european spy shop central, really weird. All these (check out the illustration at the link) macintosh types with moustaches buying tie clip cameras keeping tabs on their wives/husbands/ma-s and pa-s. Still you can't beat a psychic.

by Al Thu May 26, 2005 13:00

"Now Al, being a cop and all, what is to stop you making your own enquiries in the force about the departure of Garvey. I am sure you can use your own detecting abilities. Come back to us when you have completed your enquiries." - As per any situation it is not upto me to provide proof, if tere is any. of your allegations. You made te allegation, you provide the proof. Imagine asking a defence to provide the prosecutions proof!

"On Dublin Monaghan, it was unfortunate that those files were lost, wasn't it. You are not saying that that is rumour, now are you? Neither is the fact that the enquiry was shut down very quickly - after the biggest mass murder in Irish history. The "unofficial" contacts between members of the force and foreign intelligence agencies that Justice Baron noted: what did you think of them? Turns out that Ned Garvey knew all about them. That's a fact too, isn't it." - Again you claim more than you know. what was the contact? How far did it go? When did it start and end? nothing in anything you say supports your claims against Garvey which is what I originally asked for. Typical, lets make a bogus claim and when were pulled up on it we will change direction and start a smear campaign.

"Its great to have a cop commenting on the site. You can be our eyes and ears inside the force. Did you ever think of becoming a conscientious whistle blower, defending the public good? Good man yourself." - How is that the public good? If I was one its good but the criminals we use against other criminals are bad. Logic, anyone here seen any lately? I do defend the public good but unfortunately people like you try to force the public into having opinions they dont want. Face it, if you were the majority there would be more than 200 at Mayday 2005. Thats what really bugs you isnt it? despite all the hot air you are a pitifull minority not capable of staging any real protests or making any real changes so instead you claim such rightious attitudes.
So once again I ask for proof to back up the claim that Garvey was a spy. Maybe some day you will admit you dont have any. Once again I ask, have you broken any laws? Why do you hate the Gardai? I have figured out long ago that this site is used to insult the Gardai by people that are plain criminals.

by Betty Thu May 26, 2005 13:04

The mask is beginning to slip with those sweeping statements.

by Al Thu May 26, 2005 13:13

Not really Betty I merely decided to call a spade a spade. Surely you have noticed that there are plenty of users whos only goal in life is hatred of the Gardai. Surely one must wonder why that is? If you have a cause then fine but so many dont and only participate in threads when either A, Its against Gardai or B, when I post.
I noticed you never commented on the last thread we were in, why not? Are you big enough to admit you sprouted revelutionary crap and I showed how stupid it was? Or are you a person that just likes to shout slogans without even understanding them and can therefore not back them up?
berry "Whatever it takes Al, whatever it takes"
Al "Like bombs?"
Betty (nothing)

by Betty Thu May 26, 2005 13:21

It was a bit of tongue in cheek humour in response to a stupid posting by you.
Al reckons protest should be state sponsored. Let the Gardai know in advance. Al, have any idea how stupid that sounds? (outside of SWP circles).

As a self confessed worker Al you do realise that there may become a day when you will have to make a decision as to whether you stand by the workers or the bosses. E.G. Chavez's troops had to make a decision. Could very well be by 'any means necessary'.

"There were incidents and accidents
There were hints and allegations"

by Curious Thu May 26, 2005 13:27

I hate to have to say it Al, but you are a bit of an idiot. - in terms of your sweeping and unjustified comments.

Just to let you know, I was not at the May Day event to which you refer, so I don't know what you are talking about. And I don’t hate Gardai. I don’t hate you for instance. Sure why would I? What have you done?

As for that guff about proof, come on Al, there is considerably more evidence that Garvey was up to no good than that I am a criminal. In any case you are not in court now and nothing you say here will be taken down and used in evidence against you. So chill out, grab a beer and think about what happened to Garvey. You are in the force, so you are in a better position to nose around and get the inside dope. Why do you think he was dismissed? Aren’t you curious about the disgrace of a former commissioner?

I bet that behind it all, you are sensible chap and as interested as the rest of us in the real story. Don’t be too conspicuous now. You don’t want to be seen asking too many questions. But don’t forget, you could be of value to the new official enquiry into the bombings that the government has just set up. So there is nothing subversive in it. Go for it, Al.

(How is the bidding coming along, by the way)

by Al Thu May 26, 2005 13:32

Are you suggesting that there is going to be an uprising in Ireland? Do you know how stupid that sounds!
Exactly what is your complaint against "The bosses"?
In order to legally demonstrate in Ireland you must notify the authorities that you intend to do it. thats not specific to you or Mayday thats for everyone and funnily enough everyone else does it. SF do it, nurses do it, students do it. They neverr had a problem and carried out there demonstration just fine. Oh wait, I forgot, you dont give a shit about anyone else really, its just an excuse. I have been at many of your protests and I hate to break it to you but the majority of people that approach me only do so to give out about the protest in the first place.

by Al Thu May 26, 2005 14:18

We were obviously posting at the same time curious. I will of course respond.

"I hate to have to say it Al, but you are a bit of an idiot. - in terms of your sweeping and unjustified comments." - If you read my comments you will know I rarely do this but it is constantly being done against myself and my colleagues so I see no reason anymore to even attempt logical debate when my comments are met with insults and fabrications which the admin of this site will confirm as they are constantly deleting threads that are purely to insult myself, my family and colleagues.

"Just to let you know, I was not at the May Day event to which you refer, so I don't know what you are talking about. And I don’t hate Gardai. I don’t hate you for instance. Sure why would I? What have you done?" - This not was at you personally but another user.

"As for that guff about proof, come on Al, there is considerably more evidence that Garvey was up to no good than that I am a criminal. In any case you are not in court now and nothing you say here will be taken down and used in evidence against you. So chill out, grab a beer and think about what happened to Garvey. You are in the force, so you are in a better position to nose around and get the inside dope. Why do you think he was dismissed? Aren’t you curious about the disgrace of a former commissioner?" - the problem here is that the Givernment are supposedly involved in corruption and cover-ups themselves so why presume the reasons for his dismissal? I fully intend to have a nose around and see for myself the stopry behind it but try to remember that the Commisioner is a political post not a promotion with the Gardai so its the government decide who and how long. there have been commissioners that were not even Gardai to begin with but dont get me started on that.

"I bet that behind it all, you are sensible chap and as interested as the rest of us in the real story. Don’t be too conspicuous now. You don’t want to be seen asking too many questions. But don’t forget, you could be of value to the new official enquiry into the bombings that the government has just set up. So there is nothing subversive in it. Go for it, Al." - hmmm, Im trying to decide if this is honest or another smart ass remark. I will presume honest for the moment. I dont see how a person not even born when the bombings took place could be of any real value. Im interested in who "the rest of us" are, as far as I can see there are few users here interested in the real story.

"(How is the bidding coming along, by the way)" - Too much for me thats for sure unless I sell my BMW!

by Curious Thu May 26, 2005 16:45

I have to admit on that last point, I was being a bit of a smart ass. But, however, you are taking it in good stead.

Seriously, though, inevitably the position of head of the police force is going to be a political appointment as policing is inherently political.

Whatever Garvey was up to, it was acceptable to the then Fine Gael Minister for Justice Patrick Cooney. It was unacceptable to the incoming Fianna fail government. You could argue that it was Bleueshirt/FF issue, but I think there is far more to it than that. The previous and only time it had happened was when the first Fianna Fail Administration sacked Eoin O’Duffy in the early 1930s (admittedly O’Duffy did go off in a huff and set up the Blueshirts, before fusing the be-shirted boys into what became Fine Gael in 1937).

It was a sensational thing to do. Was it only the ‘Heavy Gang’, or was there more to it? I think there was and that the truth will come out. What do you think?

Derek Nally, then head of the AGSI, said he went to see Cooney as part of a delegation of uniformed officers to complain about the ‘Heavy Gang’ – the people whose republican prisoners beat them selves up, fell out of two story windows and attempted to drown them selves in toilet bowls.

During the first McAleese Presidential election, when Nally, was a candidate, he made the point public. Cooney said point blank it never happened. Cooney has also said that he did not interfere with or shut down the Dublin Monaghan bombing enquiry. And who are we to disbelieve him? He lost his seat in the 1977 General Election, but he claims it had nothing to do with his tenure as Minister for Justice (a post he had held continuously for the previous four years). He said it was to do with inflation (though not an inflated ego). Again, who are we, the mere electorate, to tell a man why he is no longer wanted.

Therefore, Al, aren’t there different factions in the police. Some who toe the line, do their job, and stay quiet, some who are ambitious and do a lot to embellish their CV (bit of that in Donegal now wasn’t here), some who are reactionary and who assume that anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is a dangerous subversive, some who get cynical and assume that everyone is a crook or a criminal (and sure, what harm if they dip their own snout in the trough as well), others who are brutalized by the experience of dealing with crime, deprivation, punishment and the sheer ineffectuality of the job – and some who suffer form a bit of all the above. Where do you fit in?

Anyway, let’s see what the next enquiry brings.

by Al Fri May 27, 2005 01:55

Curious, the last time I entered intelligent discussion with someone on this board it was Barry. An IRA supporter. What next? Your in the KKK? (Thats a joke)

"I have to admit on that last point, I was being a bit of a smart ass. But, however, you are taking it in good stead." - I can take a joke at my own expense.

"Seriously, though, inevitably the position of head of the police force is going to be a political appointment as policing is inherently political." - Im not sure how to get around this but we are not supposed to be. The reason why Judges and Gardai can no longer be removed by government was to remove us from their control, to ensure that they couldnt influence us. I suppose realistically thats never going to be 100% true but the Gardai uphold the law, those laws are made by government but more importantly, those in government face the same penalties as anyone else when they break the law. there have been so many cases to date to show this.

"Whatever Garvey was up to, it was acceptable to the then Fine Gael Minister for Justice Patrick Cooney. It was unacceptable to the incoming Fianna fail government. You could argue that it was Bleueshirt/FF issue, but I think there is far more to it than that. The previous and only time it had happened was when the first Fianna Fail Administration sacked Eoin O’Duffy in the early 1930s (admittedly O’Duffy did go off in a huff and set up the Blueshirts, before fusing the be-shirted boys into what became Fine Gael in 1937)." - thats my point, we dont know. Commisioners have frequently been at loggerheads with government over various issues. For all we know it could have been because he apposed them on an issue that today is seen as a coverup. I dont know why Garvery or Duffy were sacked but I wont just sit back and allow people to accuse them without any proof. I have asked for proof, which if it exists I will accept, but it is a mark against those same posters that they failed to return with any.

"It was a sensational thing to do. Was it only the ‘Heavy Gang’, or was there more to it? I think there was and that the truth will come out. What do you think?" - the heavy gang has supposedly existed throughout the states existence, Im not aware of it and never heard anything said. BUt at this stage can anyone be sure of the truth? Most people involved have taken the facts with them to the grave.

"During the first McAleese Presidential election, when Nally, was a candidate, he made the point public. Cooney said point blank it never happened. Cooney has also said that he did not interfere with or shut down the Dublin Monaghan bombing enquiry. And who are we to disbelieve him? He lost his seat in the 1977 General Election, but he claims it had nothing to do with his tenure as Minister for Justice (a post he had held continuously for the previous four years). He said it was to do with inflation (though not an inflated ego). Again, who are we, the mere electorate, to tell a man why he is no longer wanted." - Again I am not in a position to speak about this, who knows the reasoning?

"Therefore, Al, aren’t there different factions in the police. Some who toe the line, do their job, and stay quiet, some who are ambitious and do a lot to embellish their CV (bit of that in Donegal now wasn’t here), some who are reactionary and who assume that anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is a dangerous subversive, some who get cynical and assume that everyone is a crook or a criminal (and sure, what harm if they dip their own snout in the trough as well), others who are brutalized by the experience of dealing with crime, deprivation, punishment and the sheer ineffectuality of the job – and some who suffer form a bit of all the above. Where do you fit in?" - I would say the majority get brutalized to a degree but remain within the law. People seem to presume that Gardai will protect corrupt officers, in fact people presume this about every force but remember that every force has internal affairs and these are cops who requested they be assigned to a unit which investigates cops. Now if they were going to protect them why would they do that? I for one do not wish to work beside corrupt officers, why should I bust my balls only for them to be bribed into dropping or tampering with my case? Why should I bust my balls everyday only to have them turn society against me? the fact is that corrupt officers are considered worse than Joe Soap the local thief. We dont protect them, we despise them but they arent about to advertise are they?
I can say this without attempting to pull the wool over anyones eyes, we have the government (McDowell) against us, we have the papers against us (look up reports on good work by Gardai or Gardai getting injured and then look up Gardai making mistakes and see which get more print), we have the criminals (Obviously), we have people that hate us for no reason (Isnt it the thing to do?) and then we have normal citizens who are divided between backing us or turning against us and on top of all that we have some of our own colleagues stabbing us in the back as well. Take all that and remember that officially we arent allowed respond to allegations ourselves. Moral is very low at the moment and thats not helping. At the end of the day we take a risk, not for ourselves but to protect citizens. Guns, syringes, knives and just plain lunatics. thats what we spend our days dealing with. I dont expect a thank you or pat on the back. I love my job but a bit of support would be nice.
Maybe if the Gardai were more open it would help but then how many people with no knowledge or experience feel qualified to tell us how to do our jobs? Or maybe if we allowed more access, IE Sit-ins and the like it would give people a better idea of our jobs.
If you want to comment on our jobs then fine, but please have an idea what your talking about and a viable alternative.

by ethical career advice Fri May 27, 2005 12:28

Al (whom we presume is a Garda) wrote:-
"Moral is very low at the moment and thats not helping. At the end of the day we take a risk, not for ourselves but to protect citizens. Guns, syringes, knives and just plain lunatics. thats what we spend our days dealing with. I dont expect a thank you or pat on the back. I love my job but a bit of support would be nice."

Before we give you support, it would be good to know why you take that risk. Is it a vocation? Is it the adrenaline? If it is an interest in justice, why didn't you practise law, surely it would have been safer? Or was it just a well-paid job option? Or was it a decision to serve your society based on some experience of crime or criminality?
BTW, Al I have had my fair share of lunatics, syringes, knives and have even been shot at, & it was enough for me to _change_ certain elements of my lifestyle.

So why do you do it?
Why did you choose to become "one of the gardaí"?
Is it worth it, are you sure this is the best thing you could be doing considering your background, your culture, your education, what you have lived through, and what you have seen in others?

by Al Fri May 27, 2005 14:08

Career advice,
It the reason for taking up an occupation relivent or is it the work you do?
I didnt become a guard straight out of school I went to college and had an office job for a couple of years before deciding to join. A lot of guards have college education.
I didnt want to practice law because i see no job satisfaction in it. I have no desire to defend people that I think are guilty and all solicitors will throughout their careers do that. Imagine defending a child rapist that you know is guilty? Would winning that case really provide job satisfaction or would it leave you feeling shame?
I joined the Gardai because I saw an interesting job that can make a difference. I would be lieing if I said I dont get an adrenaline rush sometimes but thats besides the point. At the end of the day I know I have helped someone, I know I have taken a criminal off the streets. Its a good feeling.

by ethical career advice - "Ná leathnaigh do bhrat muna féidir leat á chosaint, a Gharda" Fri May 27, 2005 14:31

Yes it is relevant. Because you didn't become a prison officer, so you don't see where the criminals you take off the street go and therefore can know little why they continue to be criminal when they return to the street. You chose the morally sure ground of policing petty, social, and other "non serious" crime. You would not be representative of the Gardaí if you had arrested a child rapist and thus would not be fulfilling your new task "online community cyber relations" nor I doubt you are privy to the files of either Irish or British state relating to 1974 or any other "sub rosa" event. I doubt you're even on talking terms with anyone who is. But you make mention of other work history, of a certain educational achievement and that such is now increasingly common in the Gardaí as many other police forces in Europe, so let us presume you are representative of a new type of recruit.

Taken that you have admitted the adrenaline rush, I'd just like to ask, if it is not impertinent at what point does "making a difference", mean the criminal is not taken off the street but killed? Is that only when the criminal is like your comrade in the force armed? Or is only when the criminal is engaged in stealing a certain sum of money? What of the criminal acts which daily escape your practical jurisdiction?
Or are such questions beyond the scope of this online community cyber garda work description exercise?
Work with me on this, I'll be elsewhere for the next few hours, but we might have a serious debate yet.

by Al Fri May 27, 2005 15:28

To be honest with you I do not see you entering a decent debate on anything. Your last comments prove that. I am not paid to surf this website, I am a regular at 4 or 5 sites. I also have the decency to be honest about my occupation but you still refuse to state yours. No doubt you will create a fictional job. Let me guess, your a prison officer? Sure you are.
In relation to not knowing where they go, oh how wrong you are. I know over a dozen prison officers including my uncle and have been inside every Dublin prison except Cloverhill. Besides that, what makes you think you know more than I do about where they go? Do you not think we talk to prisoners? Of course we do.
So Ethical, what is your knowledge of 1974? What makes you such an authority or for that matter any person on this site?
I never stated I arrest child rapists, I was refering to solicitors.
Im not sure what your talking about at the end of your post. Are you stating that because I dont catch every single criminal act then I shouldnt bother? Or are you stating that I should only concern myself with serious crime (Please define serious) and ignore all others?
I presume you are trying to paint a picture of the 'poor little criminal' against the 'wicked Gardai'. If that is what your attempting then cry me a river for the criminal who points guns at people and robs them. Shooting him was far better than losing either Gardai or innocent people and robbing banks was not his only hobby.

by Curious Fri May 27, 2005 18:18

Ned Garvey and collusion with the Brits
British involvement in the 1974 Dublin Monaghan bombings

MAGILL Ireland, April 1999:

Murder, Collusion & Lies

Incidents involving cross-border incursions and Garda collusion with the British security forces in the early to mid-Seventies - when Garvey was Assistant Commissioner For Crime and Security - are meticulously documented. Fred Holroyd, a former British intelligence officer with MI6, had three meetings with Garvey at the Phoenix Park HQ between 1974 and 1975. The last meeting took place the day before Holroyd finally left the North.
Holroyd told Magill, "Garvey knew the information he was giving me was going back to MI6 because he was aware that I was a conduit for that organization. At one of the meetings he handed me photographs of 200 republicans from the IRA and INLA to take back."
Holroyd also tells how Garvey would arrange a "freeze area" on the southern side of the border, effectively allowing the British security forces to move unhindered. "He would tell local officers to pull back from an area, so many grid squares, so the intelligence forces could move around with impunity and without anyone knowing.”

Statement by John Weir 3rd February 1999
See full extensive statement on:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1922/

1. I am a former member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) which I joined in 1970 and served until 1980. After initial training in Enniskillen Training Depot, I began my police career in Strandtown RUC Station in East Belfast.

2. I left the RUC in 1980 following my conviction for the murder of William Strathearn at Ahoghill, Co. Antrim, which occurred in April 1977. I will deal with this incident later in this statement.
…………………………

13. I recall that McClure told me, at that meeting in Armstrong's house, that there was a farmhouse at Glenanne from which they had already carried out several operations. He did not tell me, at that stage, the identity of the person who owned the farmhouse but he said it was owned by an RUC officer. He also said it might be necessary for his group to find a different base of operations because he believed that police officers, who were unaware that the group's activities had been authorized at a higher level, knew that the farmhouse had been used in connection with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974. McClure informed me about this attack and others which he and others had carried out from this location. These included:

(i) the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I believe that 33 people were killed and scores seriously injured in these two bombings, which occurred on the same day. The explosives for both attacks had been provided by Captain John Irwin, an Intelligence Officer in the UDR. The bombs had been assembled at the farmhouse in Glenanne, which was owned by the RUC Officer James Mitchell. The main organizer of both attacks had been a Loyalist paramilitary and UDR Captain Billy Hanna from Lurgan, Co. Armagh. The bombs had been transported in cars with Robin Jackson, Billy Hanna and David Payne taking part in the Dublin attack and Stuart Young taking responsibility for the one in Monaghan. StuartYoung later told me, at a meeting at Mitchell's farmhouse, that he had intended to place the Monaghan bomb outside a different bar in the town but the Gardai (police), who were completely unaware of what his gang were doing, had not allowed them to park at that location. Although those two bombings were amongst the worst atrocities of the Irish Troubles, those responsible for them were never even questioned by the RUC, even though both the RUC and Army Intelligence knew within days of the bombings the identities of the culprits. Indeed, since Irwin belonged to Army Intelligence it is possible that both Army Intelligence and the RUC were aware of the pending bomb attacks before they took place. Hanna and Jackson are now dead but Mitchell, Payne and Irwin are still alive.

(ii) a bomb and gun attack on two pubs in Crossmaglen, carried out by McClure and Robert McConnell in November 1974, with the getaway car provided by James Mitchell and his housekeeper Lily shields. A local man, Thomas McNamee, was seriously injured and died from his injuries a year later. No one has ever been prosecuted for this crime.

(iii) the murder of two Gaelic football supporters at Tullyvallen, near Newtownhamilton in August 1975 by McClure,McConnell and other Loyalists belonging to the UVF. These men were wearing military uniforms when they stopped the two football supporters and after identifying them as Catholics, shot them dead.

(iv) a gun and bomb attack on Donnelly's bar in Silverbridge, South Armagh in December 1975. This was carried out in retaliation for the murder of an RUC Reserve Constable William Meeklim who, the group believed had been held at the a ter being kidnapped by the IRA. I understand that three people were killed in this attack and that several more were injured. Mr. Donnelly's 14 year old son was one of those shot dead in the attack. Those responsible for the attack are: Stuart Young, Sammy McCoo, "Shilly" Silcock, McConnell, with the get away car provided by Laurence McClure and Lily Shields. After the attack the group reassembled at Mitchell's farmhouse. I believe that no one has ever been prosecuted for these murders but that the RUC has known the truth for many years. On the same night Robin Jackson led a gang which placed a bomb in Dundalk, south of the border. One person was killed in that attack. Both attacks were co-ordinated.
(v) the murder of three Catholic brothers, the Reaveys, at Whitecross, South Armagh in January 1976. This attack was carried out by McConnell, Laurence McClure, RUC Reserve Constable Johnny Mitchell and one of McClure's brothers who, alone, was not a member of the security forces. On the same night Robin Jackson shot the three O'Dowd brothers dead. Both attacks were co-ordinated.

(vi) a car bomb in Castleblaney across the border in County Monaghan in March 1976 in which one man was killed. This attack was carried out by Laurence McClure and Robert McConnell. The explosives used in this attack, as in the others mentioned above, were provided by UDR Captain John Irwin and they were stored in Mitchell's farmhouse before the operation - though neither of these facts were revealed to me at this first meeting in Armstrong's house.

...................................

Al, here are some web sites that might help your research.

http://www.serve.com/pfc/dubmon/mullan.html
http://www.relativesforjustice.com/publications/monaghan.htm
http://www.serve.com/pfc/dubmon/intro.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/0805/bombing.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/327488.stm

When you have finished reading that lot come back to us

What more 'proof' do you want: a signed statement form the former Commissioner after a few hours sweating it out in the local Garda Station. We would ahve to dig up his dead body first.

by barry Fri May 27, 2005 21:49

Was STILL being used as a base of operations for Jackson and Billy Wright in the 1980 /90s

The murderous attack on the Widow Scallans pub in Dublin , in which IRA volunteer Martin Docherty was killed was claimed by Jacksons unit also The same unit from Portadown who slaughtered innocent civilians both sides of the border for decades .. That night garda special branch held up Martin Dochertys ambulance and were abusive to people on the scene . I know this because my then girlfriend was present in the bar on that night .

I have no grudge at all towards the ordinary garda on the beat , doing a shitty dangerous job with no thanks at all . But the garda special branch are the lowest of the low . Not only have they covered up the mass murder of Irish citizens theyve actively collaborated with those British agents who planned and executed those murders . Shame on them .

by ethical career advice Fri May 27, 2005 22:12

I'm "ethical career advice", which is the name I've been using on this and one other thread these are my first exchanges with you.
Iosaf Mac diarmada - is my real name.
I have written extensively here (indymedia) and in print format under many other pseudonoms but I doubt they're of interest to you.

I never suggested commenting here was your job, very few us take professional interest in this space, but you _have_ consistently made references to your job, throughout your history on this local indymedia site.
Unusual, you must think "your job" is relevant. You are not in precarity, you are not a social activists, you are not a trade union activist, you are not offering us any news, or information, you aren't even respecting the guidelines or commentators.
Thus you are by the scant info you gave us-
"an off duty cop" who is logging on to indymedia ireland. This is not so unusual, Al, you're not weird.
The site is addictive, we make it that way, like most interactive media, it is designed to grab you in the code.

Now do you want to have a serious debate?

which means you make serious points according to the guidelines, & in so doing perhaps make friends with the other users, therefore granting you the privelage to make jokes at their expense.
OR-
we play a game, - you look me up on your garda computer & a little bird tells me your real name.

by Al Sat May 28, 2005 20:41

I doubt you know my real name. I have attempted to enter serious debate on many occasions. My job is relivent because the threads I go into speak about my job or as a result of users knowing me I am asked to comment in threads I would not normally look at.
I have no interest in looking you up by the way, Im here on my own time. I havent had a chance to read your links fully. I will, just not at the moment and once I do will respond to them alltough I never defended him I simple stated no one really knows.
In relation to the post I did read, that statement was not painting him as a spy, which was the accusation and it was by the lowest of the low, a cop convicted of murder. not that many crimes I consider worse.
On what I have read the decision to remove seems justified but I would like more time to view the information.

by mr. pedantic Sat May 28, 2005 20:52

Al - please brush up your spelling.
You consistently misspell "relevant", "relevance" etc. as "relivent", "relivence" etc.

It's this kind of orthographical carelessness that gets cases thrown out of court on a legal technicality ...

It might also aid some criminal elements in identifying you on the basis of such lapses .... might be indicative of a Wesht Cork accent ... "rillivence" .....

Or are you one of the new generation of "degree" cops who feel themselves beyond the reach of the "3 R's" ....

Alll very well toting those fancy fire-arms against the bank-robbers but you have to submit your report afterwards as well ....

by rooster Sun May 29, 2005 00:57

Sinn fein has now placed many other interesting articles of republican memorabilia on e-bay which includes:
-one 14 inch kitchen knife (cleaned)
-CCTV video tape (wiped)
-4,000 Northern bank bags (empty)
-12 boiler suits (arse ripped out)
-one copy of Good Friday Agreement (unwanted)

by Al Sun May 29, 2005 17:22

mr. pedantic,
Is my spelling really that important or did you have nothing better to say so pointed out my typos? I wont bother showing yours. But those mistakes would not effect any legal or court proceedings. Our computer system prints charge sheets, etc and we use Word with spell check. Happy now?

Ethical,
I have read your links. I see nothing directly accusing Garvey however I am honest enough and big enough to concede a point and based on what i have read I agree that there is something not right here. It seems to me that it is the RUC and British military that have more to answer as they are the ones directly accused of being involved in the bombs however it was a paramilitary group that carried it out. can you recommend any good, non-bias books on the subject? I would be interested in reading more.
I congratulate you, you proved your point without reducing the debate to petty, childish insults which is the norm . I look forward to more of these debates with yourself and Barry.

by Kaz Sun May 29, 2005 18:37

Sorry to drop in but I've been reading through some of these posts over the last several days,
AI:-: might I be so bold as to suggest some reading in response to your shout-out" can you recommend any good, non-bias books on the subject"
Have a look for the body of work from our very own Dr John Horgan [UCC]. He is the worlds leading
expert on the subject at hand. [ ask around the office ;-). I'm in England but had the privilage to spend several years under his wing.

K

by mr. pedantic Sun May 29, 2005 20:55

Al as far as I am aware my only typographical error was a deliberate one: "Wesht Cork" ... perhaps I should have spelt it: "Wesht Caark" to make it clearer.
In your case I was not referring to a casual typographical slip (which can happen to the best of us) but rather a systematic misspelling which has occured in a significant number of your postings. If you don't believe me you can type the words "relivent" or "relivence" into the Indymedia search engine and see what it returns.

And yes I do think that the taxpayers have a right to expect certain minimum standards of basic orthographical competence from their law enforcers. How do you think I would feel being confronted by someone who tells me that he is here to enforce the law and acting on behalf of the State and then I find out that he can't even spell properly. Do I want to be bossed around by a semi-literate twat of a Templemore graduate claiming to represent the MAJESTY OF THE LAW ? I think not.

The rules of grammar and orthography deserve to be complied with ESPECIALLY by those perfoming official duties. That is my opinion and I stand by it. You may believe otherwise. That is your privilege. You are unlikely to be shot for doing so. After all we live in a Free State.

PS: You don't need to be ashamed of coming from "Wesht Caark". Many a fine Guard has come from there.

by mr. pedantic Sun May 29, 2005 23:22

semantics are above me otherwise I would cream myself.........

by Al Mon May 30, 2005 00:43

How do you spell All? I only put 2 l's in the word, maybe its different for you? Still find it strange that my typing/spelling seems to be your only reason for posting. If you have no opinion or interest on the subject then why read it?
I have more than a minimum education. I have 3rd level qualifications however I really dont see how that is any of your business. When you attend your local GP do you check his leaving cert results and spelling? Hes looking after your health.
Im also not from Cork but again I dont see why thats of interest to you.
I find it strange that you are able to obtain a service from a single person as we all, and I repeat all, make spelling mistakes.

by arl Mon May 30, 2005 11:56

I'm thinking of putting in a bid myself. Nice bit of history and the letter from Gerry is pure gold!

by Ramor Mon May 30, 2005 16:52

Send a "bid" to the owner of the Sinn Fein/IRA site:

Here are the details:

Brian Dowling
sinn fein bookshop
44 Parnell Square
Dublin
Dublin, 1

by john o neill Wed Jun 22, 2005 09:58 mrjoneill at eircom dot net

What is up with ebay, is it part of the British security services. If the security services want it back why dont they bid for it after all Sin Fein found it on their building and apparently there is no owner for it.
Was that activity illegal, or was there a warrent for it to place the device in private property?

by rooster Wed Jun 22, 2005 14:32

Does MI5 have a warrant to plant listening devices is like saying does Tesco have a warrant to sell crap own brand Cornflakes!!
Thats what MI5 does, its there reason for existing and if they wanted it back I think they would have just taken it so obviously they have plenty of stock at the moment.

BTW, does anyone know of any other items sin feinn have available for sale?

by Al Wed Jun 22, 2005 15:24

Glad to see this thread back.
In answer to earlier conversations I was involved in I have read 2 books on the north and the various factions. Out of these two one is by an Ex-RUC officer, he paints a great picture but it is obvious he is biased as half teh book is about fighting teh IRA and how the Gardai wouldnt help but yet no mention of fighting any other organisation.
the second book i read is mainly about the UDA but does speak about most organisations, it is quite clear that the author (who appears to be well versed and has done his re-search) thinks that the unionist side and the RUC/Military were involved with eachother however he clearly states that this was purely an unnofficial action by individual officers and not policy. He also states that the Dublin bombing was the work of a unionist faction on their own with no collaberation taking place. In fact he doesnt mention the Gardai in any 'plots'.

by kaz Mon Oct 17, 2005 04:43

can you please tell me the name of the book that you read by the Ex-RUC officer. I started to read one years ago and never finished it. I always intended to, dunno why I didnt, but its been so long now and I cant remember the name of it.
thanx
Kaz

by observer2 Mon Oct 17, 2005 14:33

ever heard of george poyntz al? he was a mi5 sleeper and leading provo until ruc officer robinson outed him. 30 years he worked for mi5! and lived in castleblaney co monaghan, swore in more provos than adams mcguiness et al!!! was working for mi5 before he joined the ra!! apparently he was fond of badgers!!!!!

funny, good old domo macglichey never trusted him, a paranoia that saved his life the night grew and carroll got blown away, coming from poyntz house!!!!!!

poyntz disappeared within hours of robinsons evidence, never to be seen again. provo disappeared, no, mi5 relocation!!!!hes probably living in jordan posing as a returned arab, swearing in al quaeida members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Barry Mon Oct 17, 2005 21:31

He was Gerrys uncle . Married to his aunty Hannaway , herself a staunch republican supposedly . He was formerly a member of the British colonial police in Palestine before resurfacing in Ireland during the 1950s and applying to join the IRA in the North Louth area . Some members were highly suspicious and hostile towards him but he eventually gained admission due to persistent lobbying on his behalf by others .

During the 70s IRA volunteers heading south on the run from Belfast were routinely directed by Gerry to stay for a few nights at his uncle Georges pub in Castleblaney for a bit of R n R ( within the Garda MI5 agent John McCoys jurisdiction). Naturally enough with free drink and late night lock ins in the company of this "veteran republican" , whose credentials Gerry Adams had assured IRA members of , the Brits picked up invaluable loose talk and intelligence on IRA activites for over a decade .

Worth noting too that he was a frequent visitor to the Divis area of the Lower Falls when Jean McConvilles mysterious abduction and murder occured . He was active in that area selling IRA guns , even to criminals . That itself carried a death penalty but with Gerry in charge he was perfectly ok . No mysterious abduction and secret burial for him .

When George was finally unmasked he was serving behind his bar . Witnesses reported that how only minutes after it was revealed in a Belfast court a woman entered the bar and spoke quietly to George . He and his wife , Gerrys aunt , simply walked out the door without a word . Never to return .

But maybe now theyll come back now Gerry has surrendered the guns and is joining the cops . Stranger things have happened , thats for feckin sure .

by Jimmy Tue Nov 22, 2005 13:32 Castleblayney

Having resided in Castleblayney all my natural life I can state without doubt that George Poyntz never owned or ran a pub in Castleblayney. If this minor fact is wrong how much else of the post is also wrong.

by Barry Tue Nov 22, 2005 17:16

Jimmy his pub was very well known . Dominic McGlinchey was drinking in it with Poyntz the night Roddy Carrol and Seamus Grew were shot dead . He was supposed to be in the car with them , which was followed from Blaney to Armagh city by undercover cops on a tip off from Poyntz .

This was revealed during the shoot to kill enquiry by Sergeant Robinson under pressure in the dock . It was the cops disclosure of this information in court which led to Mr Poyntz and his wife being spirited away from the same pub by British agents within minutes of the disclosure .

Maybe you should get out and about more .

by Barry Tue Nov 22, 2005 17:21

and his treacherous activities for the British intelligence services within the 26 counties stretching back to the 1950s .

http://burnsmoley.com/pages/area/edentubber.php

by Jimmy Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:38

Apparently you are another typical know it all. I can tell you without fear of contradcition that he never owned a pub yet you insist he did. I personally knew the man and all his family. I suppose your source of information is the usual gutter press which you in your innocence take as gospel.. If as you declare he owned a pub and if it is so well know then perhaps you would care to share the name of the premises with the other readers of this thread.

Jimmy

by Blackthorn Wed Nov 23, 2005 15:18

What are you on about with the "gutter press" stuff Jimmy ? Are you saying Georges name has been blackened ? He wasnt a British agent after all , just on an extended holiday ?

The manner of Georges disappearance from behind the bar of his pub after his outing in court is legendary in Blayney and further afield . The pubs patrons were interviewed by numerous newspaper and television journalists at the time .

Maybe youd care to tell us the inside story as opposed to the gutter press one?

by James Meaney Wed Nov 23, 2005 18:37

I must say Jimmy, the case against George Poyntz seems pretty conclusive. When did you last talk to him? Was it recently and, more to the point, where does he reside at present (if you care to let us know). Perhaps, if you are still in touch, you could ask George to lay out his side of the story on Indymedia. Is he planning a personal appearance in 'blaney anytime soon?

Bone to pick:
Barry, what are these insinuations about Gerry Adams bearing some responsibility for this British spy? Did GP marry into the family? And, if he took in Gerry A, didn't he also take in Ruarai O Bradaigh and Daithi O Connell before and during Gerry's time? Is Gerry Adams to be blamed for a liking some relation took to what appears to have been a very effective spy for over 20 years, from the border campaign to the 1970s. Or are you intimating something more sinister? Put up or shut up - felon setting is not a popular republican sport.

by jimmy Wed Nov 23, 2005 23:25

I am certainly not defending George Poyntz or in fact even slightly interested as I am totally apolitical and have no interest in the matter other than to clear up a very simple fact. I repeat for those who care to listen "He never owned a pub in Castleblayney" and I would dearly love anyone to prove otherwise. The "facts" which to some appear very clear are simply totally wrong and am eagerly awaiting positive proof otherwise.

by Jimmy Wed Nov 30, 2005 14:10

Its all gone very quiet from the man with proof positive about the pub name.

by wag eile Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:46

a bunch of well known subversives lived there and took on the USAF.
I bet if you got the lease (for 6 months) and had a look behind the walls you'd find something interesting.

LOL

by Jimmy Fri Jan 06, 2006 14:30

Does it not strike you as strange that the Three Wise Men, Barry, Blackthorn and James Meaney have suddenly gone very quiet when asked to produce proof to substantiate their claims. Remind you of anyone?

by Blayney man - none Sat May 14, 2011 13:51

George Poyntz most definetly did not own a bar, nor did he work in one.His local haunt from which contact with his handlers was maintained received a phone call that night which after answering George duly left and taking a taxi to Keady jumped out outside the r.u.c bks entered and has never been heard of since.

by fiona Wed Nov 16, 2011 01:54 portadown 07515348075

in response to the question of wereabouts of george poyntz , i would like 2 know he was the one who had my father murdered for his actions , the I N L A has never cleared up this fact maybe now 28 years later he would have the decency to do so

by Eire - Free Eire Sun Dec 29, 2013 23:38

Old George poyntzs is living in Canada , bc surrey area, all I can say