Colombia 3 U-Turn Conviction

by indymedia watch Fri Dec 17, 2004 01:25 indifreedom at eircom dot net

"This is a huge blow to the families of these three men who never expected this decision. Coming in the mouth of Christmas it will be an especially difficult for the 8 children of the three men."

Go tell it to the parents of Jonathan Parry and the other kids murdered by the IRA.

by Dorian Gray Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:32

I was only reading about Columbia the other day in a brilliant book by the historian Mark Curtis - "Britain's secret history of Human Rights Abuses " - Vintage, 2004.


In Columbia there is a smoke-screen of a democracy where the elite with the aid of the military rule the country for the benefit of the elite and 75-80% of the killing is commited by the state and their right-wing paramilitaries.

The FARC advocates running the country for the benefit of the people of Colombia and in FARC controlled areas they run, or attempt to decent free health-care programmes or try to and have litreacy programmes.

My only suprise is that SInn Fein never came out and said that the FARC's struggle is legitimate and they fully support it.

However it is my understanding that the ferensic evidence in the case was not adequate to secure a conviction. Consequently, this senctence is an affront to justice.

by Michael Hennigan Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:54

We should be cautious about adopting a British tabloid type line and rubbishing every aspect of the Colombian system.

Everyone deserves to be treated in a fair manner but not everyone has organised groups to campaign for Government and media attention.

Earlier this year, RTE radio broadcast a searing interview with a 79 year old woman whose 17yr old son was executed by the IRA in 1975 and buried somewhere. She pleaded that those involved would identify where he had been buried, before she dies.

Let us not forget that many people have not got any justice and the likes of FF Senator Mary White will not bother taking up their cause.

by Eoin Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:51 eoinlyons at eircom dot net

It seems likely that the columbian courts came under political pressure to convict the 3 men. It is unfortunate for them I'm sure. At the same time I have little sympathy as they were travelling under false passports in a country with a dubious government. That is an unacceptable risk for law abiding people. I have never had a satisfactory explaination as what they were doing there and why they had to do it under false passports.

I am aware of a precedent for a genuine freedom fighter travelling on false papers. Nelson Mandela travelled out of South Africa when he was head of the armed wing of the ANC. He used the false papers to leave his own country in the early 60s while SA was under an oppresive regime. He was welcomed into several african countries and required no false documents there. I think most people would recognise that his means justified the end.

The "Columbia 3" dont fit into the same category to me. Perhaps the FARC struggle is worth supporting. I don't know enough about them or their methods. I do know that the Columbian regime is another example of US supported dictatorship against the will of the people. At the same time to suggest that the Irish government should support 3 "citizens" who weren't travelling under legitimate Irish passports. The Columbia 3 & Sinn Fein should have the courage to tell the truth. As things stand I see no reason to support them.

I'm interested in honest debate from all sides on this topic and any information people have would be appreciated.

by dagda Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:08

Sinn Fein and human rights supporters have a perfect right to try to ensure that the 3 people in this case recieve justice in their treatment by the Colombian courts.

If you are really concerned about justice for the families of Jean McConville etc. then you are free to support their cause in a similar way and at no cost apart from your time given that all those involved are on the island of Ireland, rather than being half way round the world in a pseudo-democracy riddled with corruption.

As for travelling on false passports these 3 individuals have already served more than 3 years in limbo in Colombian jails and were they tried of this "crime" alone in any criminal justice system worthy of that name would already have been released had they in fact ever gone to jail at all in the first place.

This is quite independent from what the IRA and Sinn Fein may or may not have done in the past.

If you really insist on bringing up these unrelated matters which should be dealt with on their own seperate merits let's deal with the murders of Aidan McAnespie killed while on a GAA pitch in Aughnacloy minding his own business, and all those other victims of the British state terror insfrastructure (including those perpetrated by their loyalist agents).

by Eoin Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:41 eoinlyons at eircom dot net

"Sinn Fein and human rights supporters have a perfect right to try to ensure that the 3 people in this case recieve justice in their treatment by the Colombian courts."

I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm only saying I don't support them and I don't believe they are telling the whole truth. I understand many people do support them and I have no problem with that.

"As for travelling on false passports these 3 individuals have already served more than 3 years in limbo in Colombian jails and were they tried of this "crime" alone in any criminal justice system worthy of that name would already have been released had they in fact ever gone to jail at all in the first place."

I'm not suggesting that it was just. Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that they took an unacceptable risk in commiting this crime in Columbia and the consequences were extreme but predictable. I don't believe that Hash should be illegal anywhere in the world but I wouldn't travel to Thailand with some in my pocket.

"This is quite independent from what the IRA and Sinn Fein may or may not have done in the past. "

I accept that but I am not bringing the IRA into the debate (or didn't think I was).

"If you really insist on bringing up these unrelated matters which should be dealt with on their own seperate merits let's deal with the murders of Aidan McAnespie killed while on a GAA pitch in Aughnacloy minding his own business, and all those other victims of the British state terror insfrastructure (including those perpetrated by their loyalist agents)."

Again, I don't believe I brought unrelated matters into the debate, and I am certainly not denying the state sponsored terror campaign you refer to.

Thanks for your comments.

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 13:19

This will adversely affect the Irish Peace Process. It was the British Intelligence Services who informed their Colombian counterparts of the presence of the three Irishmen in Colombia and who furnished the Colombians with their past record of republican activism. British securocrats have been opposed to the Irish Peace Process from the outset and this latest development, ultimately engineered at their behest, will further sour the atmosphere making comprehensive agreement in the North harder to attain.

by Colm Gallagher Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:09

I'm not sure of the details, but didn't the defence for the 3 provide video evidence during the trial that Jim Monaghan was in Belfast when the prosecution claimed he was training FARC?

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:26

Yes that's correct. By the way what about the despicable role of the Labour Party leadership in all of this? Pat Rabbitte bullied some of his own TDs into non-attendance at the original trial in Bogota. The so-called 'liberal' refused to allow the Labour Party Justice Spokesperson fron travelling to a country with a notorious human rights record to observe the trial of three Irish citizens. Is there anything more despicable than the commoner-garden Irish pseudo liberal?

by Bright Eyes Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:44

As usual Harney does not see any miscarraige of justice, but that is only to be expected from her given her past form.
Well anyway it seems the three have done a runner. Lets keep our fingers crossed that they make it home safely.

by Michael Hennigan Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:02

Is Colombia a dictatorship or is it considered one because the government is pro-American? just wondering?

I don't think that it's the norm for groups of Oireachtas members to attend trials of Irish citizens in dictatorships abroad or for Charlie Bird to attend?

So this is not a typical case and as has been said, there hasn't been a satisfactory explanation as to why two members of the Republican Movement would visit Colombia from Ireland and be joined by the Sinn Fein representative in Havana.

They may not have been there to train FARC members but surely, where the Irish Government's assistance is being sought, there should be an honest explanation as to why they were there - even if it was merely as tourists.

So abusing Pat Rabbitte for not allowing Joe Costelloe to go to Colombia, in the absence of a reasonable explanation as per above, doesn't seem fair to me

by Makhno Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:14

They said they were there to find out more about the Colombian Peace Process. They are ex-political priosners with a proven track record of involvement in issues of conflict resolution since the left prison. This has been clear since the beginning. Rabbitte is a visceral Stickie and could not be a genuine liberal if he tried!

by devil dog Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:49

What an excellent early Chrimbo pressie!!!!

Makhno, far from being opposed to it, the "Securocrats" in MI5 are among the architects of the sham that is the "Peace Process".

by Pedro Fri Dec 17, 2004 19:01

Too bad that the usual slanging match and point scoring (eg. "Rabbitte the visceral Stickie" / the arrests were "an excellent xmas present") from all sides has come into this debate. Some open minded comments from Eoin were welcome.
For what it's worth, I think that the question of supporting FARC presents a number of challenges for the Left.
On the one hand, a FARC-controlled Colombia might replicate some of the excellent aspects of Cuba (eg. a free, efficient health care system for all)
On the other, there is little to suggest that FARC government wouldn't also replicate Cuba's not-so-great (is abysmal too strong a word?) human rights record. FARC already carry out executions without due process.
The group have a significant involvement in the drugs trade. It means that they aren't exactly (excuse the pun) keeping their nose clean in terms of being left-wing role models.
As for the Colombia 3, isn't it a little disturbing that a pattern of urban bombing began to occur in Colombia in the period after republicant involvement in the country was revealed. Before, the conflict was relegated primarily to the countryside. Coincidental?

by being a late developer Fri Dec 17, 2004 20:05

as the authorities have not yet located the 3 men at the centre of a protracted and highly politicised trial with trans-national issues (the documentation they used) they have asked the 3 men do a "U turn" and hand themselves into custody.

by James Maher Fri Dec 17, 2004 20:35

I very much appreciate Eoin and Pedro's concerns regarding the veracity of claims by supporters of the Colombia 3. However, I believe both of you have been misinformed by a pernicious campaign of black propaganda from various intelligence agencies.

Firstly, Pedro, it is not true that FARC have changed their tactics in any manner since the arrival of these three men in Colombia. Such claims were produced by Colombian and US authorities without any evidence.

While I understand Eoin's concern as to why anyone might travel to Colombia on a false passport, it must also be understood that republicans have had to do this for decades due to the risk of being incarcerated for who they are. Thousands of people arrive in this country every year with false papers, or indeed with no papers at all. That is not a reason for 17 years incarceration. Indeed, the normal sanction, internationally, is a prompt deportation. I do not think it is right to subject one's interpretation in justice to abberrant national practices. It is wrong that people in be subjected to such tyranny on the basis of some fatalistic acceptance of the logic of totalitarian regimes.

You both seem to focus on asking why the men were there and claim that, in the absence of an explanation acceptable to yourselves, you cannot support the men. They state they were there to observe the peace process (since suspended by the Colombian Government). You have no solid basis on which to disbelieve this, no reason to believe US-Colombian propaganda (assuming you're both rightly sceptical of both regimes) and no right to sit in judgement of the men. There has been no evidence of guilt whatever, merely the concocted, erroneous and badly configured lies of the Colombian regime. In attempting to stitch these men up, Colombian authorities cited dates at which the men were verifiably at home in Ireland for their alleged previous activities and consistently lied. This is why a Colombian court originally threw the matter out. If it's good enough for one brave Colombian judge under massive political pressure, why is it not good enough for you?

by You'll never find them Fri Dec 17, 2004 23:49

All the colombian junta evidence was discredited in court, which was why the 3 irish men were AQUITTED, there was no forensic/witnesses evidence against the men.

The 3 Irishmen were found quilty of travelling under false passports only, for which they've already paid hefty fines and already served lengthy jail sentences on remand for.

Sheila Maguire an Irish government embassy official to Mexico, stated she met one of the Irish men Niall Connolly in March 2001 in Cuba, when the colombian junta prosecution alleged he was in Colombia training FARC rebels.

Video evidence also showed Jim Monaghan in Belfast when he was said to be in Colombia training FARC rebels.

For the Colombian junta judges suddenly to do a U-turn despite having no evidence whatsoever against the men and sentence the men to 17 years in prison, smacks of black ops propaganda, and comes conveniently just when the British government and Ian paisley, need a stick with which to beat Sinn fein, and also in time to discredit Sinn fein and distract us from the intransigence of the brit government and the DUP.

For the 3 Irishmen to be able to escape and disappear so easily shows the level of colombian public support for FARC and is indicative of the popularity of FARC amongst the ordinary colombian population, latin america and the carribean continent.

by Pedro Sat Dec 18, 2004 14:25

There seems to be quite a lot of misinformation coming from all sides here.
An urban bombing campaign has become a fact of life in Colombia in recent years. While it doesn't necessarily mean that the IRA were responsible, it's worth putting on the record.
I think it's also important to point out however that FARC do NOT enjoy the type of support which the last contributor is suggesting.
I'm speaking as someone who has lived in Colombia. Ok, it doesn't mean that everything I say about the place is necessarily the final word. But please just trust me when I say that FARC are definately not the new sandinistas!

by jams Sun Dec 19, 2004 13:27

I notice that the british and american secret services have free range to travel on false passports and assist the existing Columbian government in methods of torture, murder, and opression of the poor in Columbia. But theres never any mention of that in the media or condemnation from the PD's.

If the Columbia 3 were there to help FARC then fair play to them, however no evidence has been provided that proves this.

Its just like the time the Gilford 4, Birmingham 6, Judith Ward and many others were all thrown in jail on fabricated evidence and were ignored by the Irish neo con governments (which included the so called labour party) at the time. Anyone who dared to help in the obvious miscarriage of justice these trial were, were denounced as terror sympathisers. Plu ca change. Look at the same reaction now from the right wing rabble that run the country (including arch stickie Rabette) when another 3 irish men are put through the mill of brit engineered opression.
J

by Jonahn Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:29

I don't know what the three Irishmen were doing in Colombia, but nor, hard as this might be to believe, is it relevant.

The political stance people have on Colombia or on Ireland is also irrelevant. As is the believeability or otherwise of the explanations the men gave for being there or for using false papers.

All utterly irrelevant.

The basic legal principle of innocent until proven guilty (Which is how we rung the legal system in Ireland if not in Colombia) demands that they be proved guilty.

The evidence of the Colombian state was weak, contradictory and in this jurisdiction would not have been enough to support the pressing of charges.

The two planks on which the case rested, FARC defector eye-witnesses and forensics tests were utterly discredited by the Defence.

There is no evidence against these men and their right to a fair trial is obviously in question. In such a circumstance they took the only option open to them and I wish them the best of luck.

by ceasefire? Wed Dec 22, 2004 18:22

The shinners have had every thing their own way in this country for the last few years, try taking your campaign internationally and see how much support there is for it outside the usual shinner area (none). About time justice was seen to be done. Now lets see how they excuse themselves from the Belfast bank job !!!

by Barry Wed Dec 22, 2004 18:37

Actually the system of justice in the Special Criminal Court makes the Colombian courts look like Sweden.

A special set of draconian legisaltion applicable only to anti-GFA republicans, ensures a virtually zero acquittal rate. Colm Murphy, Liam Campbell and Michael McKevitt were pronounced guilty before they even set foot in the place.

Colm Murphys trial in particular was an absolute farce. The evidence against him was forensically proven to have been falsified, and the guards proven to have perjured themselves in court. Nonetheless 14 years were handed down simply because the State and the pro-Brit media demanded it. A political show trial and nothing less.

Nonetheless best of luck to the 3 men and Im glad to see they are free from that Colombian hell-hole. Id hate to see any Irishman in that situation.

As for the Belfast bank job, it wouldnt surprise me, but theres nothing to link Adams to it as far as I can see - yet.

by jason Fri Dec 24, 2004 15:57

As for the Belfast bank job, it wouldnt surprise me, but theres nothing to link Adams to it as far as I can see - yet.

House take overs, threatening peoples families, easy access to fire-arms, proessional job with attention to detail such as removing forensic evidence not to mention a recce to ascertain "inside" information.
Not to worry, the cops are hot on their tails so details will filter out in the next day or so.

by eeekkkkkk Fri Aug 05, 2005 18:43

.

by rooster Sat Aug 06, 2005 23:44

before being spotted and then they will be on the first 747 on the way back to SA!!!!

by Al Sun Aug 07, 2005 14:40

One thing about this issue that people are ignoring is the work by Sinn Fein.

I find it hard to believe that Sinn Fein would be as active if it was a Joe Soap irishman in a Bangkok prison.

In fact the work and efforts by Sinn Fein when its Republicans on trial for terrorist related crimes speaks volumes to me.

As for the 3 years for false passports, fine they served their time but the court must decide this and that hasnt happened yet. Also, why were they travelling on false passports? If they wanted to observe the peace process there then they could have done so on their own passports, in fact the SF rep probable could have gotten a diplomatic passport.

by rooster Mon Aug 08, 2005 04:36

The Colombia Three will face immediate arrest if they try to enter Northern Ireland, it emerged last night.

a spokesman said that if they entered Northern Ireland authorities here would deal with any extradition request "without delay".