Protest at Dáil Éireann by Civil Rights Movement of Ireland

by The truth is out there Sun Dec 12, 2004 15:11

Another SWP front how long will it be before they drop this/change its name

Another Europe is possible, globalise resistance, anti nazi league, no human is illegal, African Social Forum, etc, etc, etc

by Tony off the cliff Sun Dec 12, 2004 16:20

The SWP have created this front for one reason only: because there is already a genuine and broad anti-racist organisation in existence: Residents Against Racism. So why create another one? Simple: they can't control RAR, two leading members of RAR are ex-members of the SWP who were expelled from the party and most importantly RAR does a huge amount of practical donkey-work defending the rights of asylum seekers. The SWP, on the other hand is only interested in rhetoric and poitless protests which give the impression they are doing something (to their own members at least).

This front is particularly disgusting because its trying to take advantage of one of the most vurnerable groups in Irish Society. Just when you think they've plummed the depths of opportunism, they come up with something like this. My advice to genuine anti-racists, dont go near this front, if you really want to help get involved in RAR.

by eeekkkk Sun Dec 12, 2004 16:49

just about covers every eventuality

by AA Sun Dec 12, 2004 18:16

yeah, it's a cover-all name alright. so now they can scrap the iawm, antinazi league, and all their other phoney fronts and perhaps organise everything under the banner of the civil rights movement.

What will actually-existing civil rights activists think of this cheeky appropriation, though?

And whats next, will the swp rename itself THE socialist movement?

Oh dear...

by Tony Sun Dec 12, 2004 19:03

Quote: two leading members of RAR are ex-members of the SWP who were expelled from the party and most importantly RAR does a huge amount of practical donkey-work defending the rights of asylum seekers.


News to me. What were they expelled for?

From what I have seen, RAR almost exclusively defends illegal immigrants facing deportation.

When an application for asylum is (finally) rejected - that person has no claim to be an asylum seeker and their legal status for remaining here - ends.

by pat c Sun Dec 12, 2004 20:24

"News to me. What were they expelled for?"

for thinking. ask the swp why the entire rathmines branch had to go.

"From what I have seen, RAR almost exclusively defends illegal immigrants facing deportation. "

rar defends immigrants at all stages of the process.
you now know more. perhaps the swp werefeeding you false info.

by eeekkk Sun Dec 12, 2004 20:37

why hold two demos in support of immigrants at different times on one day. it just does not make any kind of rational sense.

by Cynic Sun Dec 12, 2004 20:45

Eeeek my friend you cannot know the SWP very well. They care nothing for the Immigrants all they want is a chance to sell papers and recruit members.

by sheesh Sun Dec 12, 2004 20:51

the phrase divide and conquer - you don't do it to your own side to win - you do it to your opponent

by padraic - 1 of indymedia editorial collective Sun Dec 12, 2004 23:37

hey pat,

i don't know if you've noticed but Tony's the rascist who's allways having a go at RAR. His major buzz seems to be insisting that illegal immigrants should be deported and that everything McDowell does is fine and dandy.

Don't feed the trolls.

by Tony Mon Dec 13, 2004 00:53

Quote: Tony's the rascist who's allways having a go at RAR




Grow up.

by The truth is out there Mon Dec 13, 2004 09:50

Tony is involved in the ICP, and is also a regular contributor to Stormfront. Let no one doubt what he believes in. His beliefs are extreme.

by badtiming Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:05

Dail will have adjourned for Christmas that afternoon. There will be no-one there.

by jimmy Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:37

you said tony's involved in the ICP and posts on Stormfront, any evidence?

by Chekov Mon Dec 13, 2004 13:18

Just do a search through the archives for comments authored by tony. He has posted on dozens of threads, with many different topics, but every one of his posts has the same essential message - he just doesn't like dem immigrants.

On another point, the best response to the SWP's latest sectarian front is to get a good turnout to the RAR protest on Thursday.. There's not much point in moaning about their behaviour - dogs bark, cats miaow, the SWP are sectarian. It ain't gonna change.

by Burger Mon Dec 13, 2004 14:14

Tony is almost certainly the 'Ted Roach' who is a regular poster on one of the minor Irish fascist sites. He is slightly smarter than the other fascists who post here pretending to be 'concerned moderates' but still gives himself away from time to time. And slightly smarter here is in the sense of 'In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king'.

Ted/Tony as might be expected is another Justin Barrett fan and seems to not only work with him but also be told in advance whenever Barrett is to make a media appearance. This is a long standing relationship and of course Ted/Tony is not the only out of the closet fascist working with Barrett.

Like Barrett he has the odd idea that the far left consists entirely of the SWP and the SWP pretending to be something else. There is a half truth in there somewhere but that also explains why Tony got excited about the mention of the expulsions. Tony/Ted is very interested in RAR and is often to be found online telling fellow fascists what he knows about them and how much he hates them.

Some members of RAR regularly get death threats by phone from some nazi loon.

by jimmy Mon Dec 13, 2004 18:39

wow Tony, usually you're so prompt with replies on any topic that interests you, your silence here is a little strange...

by Tony Mon Dec 13, 2004 19:51

Here we go again for the slow of learning.....

Tony is not a member of ICP.
Tony is not Justin Barrett. He leaves that job to Justin Barrett
Tony is not Ted Roach. He leaves that job to Ted Roach
Tony is not a contributor to Stormfront.
Tony is not a member of a political party.

However,

Tony is used to this drivel.

Siege mentality stuff. One mans opinion is akin to a declaration of race hate and facism.

What sad little minds you have.

by Tut tut tut Mon Dec 13, 2004 20:04

Liar, a regular mole at ICP meetings has identified tony and ted roach as the same individual. You can deny it all you want, we know the truth about you, and a lot more aswell.

by Tony Mon Dec 13, 2004 20:09

Sad - so very very sad.

by Tony Mon Dec 13, 2004 20:17

A note to the moderators

Is it now legitimate debate on Indymedia to be called a racist, facist,"Ted Roach" immigrant hater etc and is slander, libel and abuse also OK from one side of the debate?

by padraic 1 of indymedia Mon Dec 13, 2004 20:41

I don't think more or less anonymous people can actually be libeled or slandered Tony. Perhaps if you published your contact details you could take a case?....

People have pointed out that your contributions on this site usually amount to having a go at RAR and immigrants. Likewise i don't think someone saying that they think you are 'ted roach' adds up to abuse.

discussion on editorial policy is supposed to take place on the editorial list, not on the newswire and it is grounds for hiding a post.

by Tony Mon Dec 13, 2004 21:30

padraic 1,

Publishing my contact details would hardly prove a point now would it?

I would then be accused of "impersonating" myself would I not?

Show any link or quote from any of my posts where I personally attacked a specific immigrant as opposed to attacking immigration policy.

Show any link or quote any any of my supposed posts on Stormfront.

Now if I may return the compliment - you wouldn't be Mark Grehan or of that ilk by any chance?

by fogy Mon Dec 13, 2004 22:41

“Liar, a regular mole at ICP meetings has identified tony and ted roach as the same individual. You can deny it all you want, we know the truth about you, and a lot more as well”


Liar indeed! And not just that I also learned from that mole at the ICP that not just ‘Tony’ but the entire 80% of the electorate who voted ‘Yes’ in the June referendum is also no other than a certain Ted Roach.
Michel Mc Dowell is Ted Roach as is indeed Mary Harney , the entire fianna Fail, Fine Gael AND PDs Parties ( both national AND parliamentary) are also Ted Roach( why else would they support a ‘yes’ vote?- it’s quiet logical now you know it).
Many of my own family and friends I since discovered to my consternation have turned out to be Ted Roach also.

I’ve come to realise of late that perhaps only a tiny minority who belong ( actively) to the “anti-racist” movement are the only people in the entire Country who can be safely trusted to NOT be Ted Roach. But in the future who knows ,maybe within a few weeks a few of them may turn out to him.
I may have to conclude that maybe I myself I the only one who isn’t-gawd help you all Ted!

by fogy is tony who is ted Tue Dec 14, 2004 00:29

tony/ted/foggy how many votes did the ICP/barrett get. come on lets count together we can count their votes on our fingers

by fogy Tue Dec 14, 2004 00:45

“fogy is tony who is ted”

LOL- This has just gone beyond satire (almost)-truly priceless!

by the THE Tue Dec 14, 2004 19:15

Purposeful Confusion?
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=67842

by Michael Gallagher - RAR Wed Dec 15, 2004 16:36

I would like to think that most of the contributers to this 'discussion' will find the time to come along to the demo @ 12.30 from the Central Bank on the 16th. Are you going to 'walk the walk' or just 'talk the talk'?
People with very few rights in this country need your support.

by hunu Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:15

People with few rights but a serious amount of privileges!

by Mark Grehan - Residents Against Racism Wed Dec 15, 2004 20:10 residentsagainstracsim at eircom dot net 087 7974622 or 087 6662060

Pray tell me what privilege's do they have ?. Another idiotic, unsubstantiated comment from some coward who hides behind a false name. If your point is so sound, so clear, so reasonable, then why hide behind a false name?.

by fogy Thu Dec 16, 2004 00:39

“If your point is so sound, so clear, so reasonable, then why hide behind a false name?”


That point must invalidate the say 97% of posters to indymedia who also don’t post under their real name then , mustn’t it?

by Mark Grehan Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:24

RTE news wed 15-12-04

45,000 immigrant workers needed: CSO

15 December 2004 19:59
Official figures forecast that the Irish economy will need to allow in 45,000 immigrant workers every year for the next 12 years to sustain economic growth.

The projection, which amounts to an increase in the present population of more than 12% by 2016, is made by the Central Statistics Office.

At present, there is an influx of 35,000 immigrant workers annually.



The CSO says this needs to increase by 10,000 to maintain the economic growth of the last decade.

The figures are included in the CSO's Population and Labour Force Projections for the period 2006 to 2036.

by fogy Thu Dec 16, 2004 14:46

those facist PeeDees again and their anti-business stance. "Anti-racists" should be proud of their stance.

by fogy Thu Dec 16, 2004 14:50

nuff said!

by Tony Thu Dec 16, 2004 19:21

Well spotted Mark,

You will note the article says 45,000 immigrants as opposed to 45,000 illegal immigrants or even 45,000 bogus refugees not to mention 45,000 immigrants of a specific skin colour.

Fogy,

Good point. A Doctor that could be treating AIDS victims who instead - ends up doing breast implants in Europe is the reality of what can and does happen when immigration is seen as the endless bounty of properity and fortune - that we must exploit fully and unquestionably regardless of negative consequences - home or abroad.

by Mark Grehan Thu Dec 16, 2004 22:07

How many illegal immigrants are there in Ireland Tony?
How many do the Guards think there are in Ireland Ted?
How many organisations apart from the ICP think there are lots of illegal immigrants in this country?

by Tony Thu Dec 16, 2004 22:57

How many illegal immigrants are there in Ireland Tony?


Dont you understand the concept Mark? They are illegally here and therefore it is impossible to tell. We can however tell that there are tens of thousands that have failed the asylum process that have yet to removed.

How many do the Guards think there are in Ireland Ted?

Over to ted for that one if he can make head or tail of your question, Rosanna.

How many organisations apart from the ICP think there are lots of illegal immigrants in this country?

Would the 80% who voted in the last referendum count as an organisation?

by Tony Thu Dec 16, 2004 23:02

Incidentally Mark, 50 Moldovans and Russians were deported in the last week.

Where was the outcry from RAR?

Little too "pale" for your "organisation" were they?

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 13:44

Pity tony, poor Tony!. Of Course we released statements about it, and mentioned it in the speeches yesterday. Shall we put you on our email list, poor Tony. Then you'll be better informed and perhaps more intelligent as a result. Poor Tony!. It's only people like you who are fascinated by skin colour.

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 13:46

Also it was Moldovans and Romanians. Your last comment is innaccurate. Actually pretty much all your comments are inaccurate. Poor Tony!

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 13:56

Poor Tony. The guards do have an estimate of how many illeals they think there are in the country, give them a ring they'll inform you. As for peope who's asylum application has been rejected, that does not make them illegal and as such any reference you make to them being illegal is wrong both legally and intellectually. Poor Tony thinks his ideas represents 80% of the people who voted in the referendum. Poor Tony, why did no anti immigrant candidate succeed in the last elections? Poor Tony. Did you yourself run for the ICP? Poor Tony! losing all the deposits for those "we hate foreigners" candidates. Poor Tony, suffering from delusion. The people don't listen to him so he spends his time on Indymedia,which probably infuriate's you even more because nobody listens to you here either. Poor Tony!

by ww Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:32

enough already!

the two of you, go sit in the corner!

So, how did the SWP protest go?

by Usual Fri Dec 17, 2004 15:38

Very small about 10-15 people lots of paper sellers though

by pc Fri Dec 17, 2004 18:02

Of Course we released statements about it, and mentioned it in the speeches yesterday. Shall we put you on our email lis no you didn't ... theres no info coming of those lists, why don't you spend your time informing everyone about whats going on rather then having constnat circular arguements with a out and out racist ?

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 19:35

Pat, there is info coming off the list. The old CARR list no longer works. If you want to be added on to the new list you can just email [email protected] and i will add you on to it.

by pc Fri Dec 17, 2004 19:56

i was actually refering to news of that deportation and there is a one line reference to such in the demo press release but there's a lack if info generally, others put up info about the subject (and they nearly always get abuse from facist trolls but they don't take the bait, therefore informing the rest of us and not spending all the time argueing ) as spokesperson for RAR you could do the same...(but if you have a reason not to please enlighten me, rather then ignoring me) or is it because you have some access to mainstream media you don't bother with other media? thank you its paul c not pat c

by Duh Fri Dec 17, 2004 21:00

Tony,

A failed asylum seeker is not illegal, perhaps you should talk to a solicitor. No anti immigrant candidate will ever win because they are all morons such as yourself. As for even some black immigrants voted for the referendum, again you are fixatred with the colour of people's skins. Here is some news for you there are black Irish people. That probably makes you sick to the stomach. You never answered the question about running for the ICP. Looking at your statements and ICP's you are without a shadow of a doubt a member of the ICP. A small group which doesn't even advertise their meetings. RAR is not a political party and is made up of people from many different political parties, including Mark who is a well known member of a political party. Funnily enough i actually remember Aine Ni Chonnail of the ICP running against Aengus O'Snodaigh of Sinn Fein to expose Sinn Fein's open door policy. She polled disastrously, while Aengus is now a TD for Dublin South Central. Tough tucker Tony

by Wrong Fri Dec 17, 2004 21:02

Ireland has deported people who were here legally, some have been brought back at the expense of the state.

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 21:11

Apologies for the wrong name Paul. The guards are not forthcoming with the information about this deportation, several solicitors have been trying to get the info since wednesday. This is one of the problem with McDowell's cloak and dagger midnight deportations which take place, not even the solicitors get informed. The people being deported are not even allowed contact a solicitor. Tomso's mother was not even allowed bring her son, so if you have any bright ideas Paul share.

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 21:15

The High Court has decided that the Nigerian mother of an Irish-born child
has "substantial grounds" to seek a declaration from the courts that
deportation regulations made under the Immigration Act, 1999, are void.

Mr Justice Peart, in a reserved judgment yesterday, said that he was
satisfied that the woman had raised "some weighty and arguable issues" and
gave leave to pursue a judicial review of a decision of the Minister for
Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make an order deporting her.

The 34-year-old mother arrived in the State on May 16th, 2003, claimed
asylum and 12 days later gave birth to a daughter.

Mr Mel Christle SC, for the mother, said she had parental responsibilities
which necessitated her presence in the State with her child, who had a
constitutional right to be with her mother here.

The Minister could ignore that right by deporting the mother only if, after
due and proper consideration, the Minister was satisfied that was in the
interests of the common good and the protection of society and the State.

The sole reason given for notification of deportation was that the Minister
was satisfied that the interests of public policy and the common good in
maintaining the integrity of the asylum and immigration systems outweighed
such features of her case as might tend to support her being granted leave
to remain in the State.

The woman had argued that no mention had been made of the rights of her
child, and no reason or evidential basis was provided as to why the stated
policy should outweigh the interests of her daughter in residing and growing
up in the country of her citizenship.

She claimed her child was being discriminated against solely on the basis of
her parentage, race and/or ethnic origin and that there was no objective
reason to justify such discrimination.

Mr Christle had referred to Article 8 of the European Convention on Human
Rights Act, 2003, which provided that everyone had the right to respect for
their private and family life, home and correspondence.

Counsel for the Minister argued that the Minister had acted properly and
considered material before him.

The Minister was entitled for the purposes of Article 8 of the Convention to
justify his decision to deport on the basis of upholding the integrity of
the immigration system without going into further detail as to exactly why
it was necessary to deport the mother in furtherance of that object.

Mr Justice Peart decided the mother had sufficient grounds to argue there
was a failure on the part of the Minister to set out any consideration of
the principle of proportionality.

He also allowed her leave to seek an order quashing the deportation order
and to seek a declaration that the 1999 Immigration Act and deportation
regulations were ultra vires and void.

by Mark Grehan Fri Dec 17, 2004 22:19

Guards get their figures from their estimates Tony, using figures they have. You on the other hand make them up

As for your second question a previous comment pointed out ICP position against Aengus, Aine didn't get her deposit back, Aengus is now a TD. There are several political parties which have open door policies who run for elections, and indeed several councillors and TD's who support the same policy.

As for your 3rd question RAR is not a political party. I am a member of a political party. You ran lost and didn't get your deposit back. Tough luck.
But now we have confirmed your identification and locality, we will not engage with Fascists

by gralton.org Fri Dec 17, 2004 22:58

They should act as a conduit for the concerns various immigrant communities. Those communities are largely silenced by the media (only tokens allowed - token politician - token mother - token dancer) and cowed by a right wing government and business community who are having their cake (compliant labour - both cheap (legal) and cheaper (illegal) ) and eating it by denying basic human rights (meaningful security/meaningful citizenship) and a voice to the most vunerable and precarious part of the labour force.

'Shur if it (property boom etc) all comes crashing down we can kick them out of the country - kids or no kids'

*'Information dissemination on the Net follows the Open Source model: release early and release often, and let your mistakes be corrected by many eyeballs. That runs completely counter to the principles of old school journalism, which say to get it right first, so no one sees you make a mistake. After all, your credibility is at stake, so bury your retractions on page 6, with the obits.'*