Iraqi Student Suspended After Photo with Irish President

by Indy Freedom Fri Nov 26, 2004 07:49 indifreedom at eircom dot net

Sorry, apparently, Danny Cussen is deputy principal not the organ grinder at the operation. Either way, time for some shock and awe in Ballinteer. Let Freedom Reign.

by Deirdre Clancy Fri Nov 26, 2004 14:30

This VP is being disingenuous when he says it's an internal school matter. It's a highly charged matter that involves the whole community. Did he seriously think it would go uncommented that a young woman who was in the process of seeing her country in this sort of turmoil, and under occupation by a coalition which shows comtempt for the lives of Iraqi people, was told 'not to touch' the Irish President? Can he be so naive as to think that his insistence on rules and regulations, in this particular context, would go uncommented? Even taking it on his terms, Ireland's 'first citizen' personally agreed to have her photo taken, having been asked personally - surely this vindicates the student?

I've known of people being suspended for violence or vandalism, for less of a time than the VP suspended this student. The 'punishment' is way too draconian not to be questioned by the general public, and I'm glad the media have taken up the story.

I'm not interested in the generalised teacher-bashing that can occur in this country at times, or in undermining the cause of teachers, who do a good job generally in the face of often demoralising conditions and contemptible comments from ministers. But this incident had to be questioned and made public. I don't see how the unions can defend this one.

by Elle Fri Nov 26, 2004 15:07

Nonsense - the young woman in question was suspended for going against a deliberate instruction from the school authorities. She is reported in today's Times as saying "I thought Ireland was a democracy....I come from Iraq". None of this is relevant - she was told in advance that she was not to ask the President to pose for a personal photo and she ignored this - therefore the school took action. I cannot believe that so many column inches have been given to this nonsense already - it is simply an internal matter for the school. I can't help but wonder at those who were sucked in by hysterical media headlines which implied that she was suspended for having her photo taken with the President - this is not the case - she was suspended for ignoring an instruction. It has nothing to do with where she is from, neither does it threaten our status as a democratic nation!!

by Ray Fri Nov 26, 2004 15:12

Seems a bit steep, doesn't it?

by Elle Fri Nov 26, 2004 15:23

The length of the suspension is a matter for the school. I read that the suspension was originally for three days and was increased when the young woman and the VP disagreed over who said what. The President's staff supplied the school with a protocol document prior to the visit - the "rules" were outlined in advance and all pupils were made aware of them. I don't think 5 days is too severe but I do think that this is entirely an internal school matter.

by Michael Fri Nov 26, 2004 15:39

What sort of school would suspend a kid for FIVE DAYS just for breaking such a silly little rule?

Teachers and school staff wonder why kids don't show them any respect anymore these days. It's a mystery to them entirely. I work in a school and I can tell you why: It's because staff behave like children just as often as the pupils do, making silly little rules and overreacting all the time.

by S - none Fri Nov 26, 2004 16:14

I just read this article in the IT, to be honest i can't believe it made the press. Quite annoying considering the many important storys that the press conveniently ignore.

I do think the school went over the top, five days is a bit steep, but I really don't think there is anything more significant to this story than the fact that the girl defied a direct rule of the school and that the school came down a bit heavy handed.

I don't think it has anything to do with Iraq or democracy or anything, well maybe it raises the question of how schools are run, but thats another matter.

as an aside, why the hell would you go to this trouble to have your pic taken with Mary McAleese??? she's nothing but a fluffy figurehead at best and a rightwing drain on taxpayers at worst . any how thats my two cent worth :-)

by john Fri Nov 26, 2004 16:37

when I was at school a five day suspension would have come like manna from heaven. I can never work out what kids have against it these days. Detention - now that would be a different thing .

by pc Fri Nov 26, 2004 16:41

why did you alter the headline from "Student is suspended after photograph with President" to an "Iraqi student...."

by Deirdre Clancy Fri Nov 26, 2004 18:50

Elle, even in the normal scheme of things, had the student been of any other nationality than Iraqi, I would have said that suspension was over the top. However, I also believe it is ill-advised to attempt to divorce what is going on at national and international level from what happens at community level. To be suspended for breaking a rule is justifiable where the breaking of that rule harmed someone or some essential aspect of the school's functioning, which this student didn't. But actually, in any circumstance, the punishment is draconian and the man's reaction petty and overly authoritarian. The fact that she had another few days added on to her suspension for daring to disagree with his account is testament to this. Are we at a stage now where people can't disagree with authority figures, just because they're in authority? People must earn authority by acting respectfully and fairly.

I happen to believe that the fact that the student is Iraqi is relevant in this instance, and if that's an overreaction in your eyes, then so be it. I'd say the same if the student had been Palestinian or Sudanese, or from any international trouble spot. While the teacher may just be habitually into petty bureaucracy, I think his actions show a particular cluelessness and lack of sensitivity.

I find it amusing that in your subject line you make a suggestion that I habitually overreact to things, yet you are unwilling to identify yourself; therefore it's difficult to know what you are basing this intimation on - other than the fact that you disagree with me, and any disagreement with your point of view is regarded as an overreaction. The approach is essentially cowardly. Whatever a person's argument is, it's hard to take it seriously when they don't have the courage to actually say who they are, stand by their observations fully, and give rational reasons for them.

by jd Sun Nov 28, 2004 04:01

Deirdre, is your point that the student in question, coming from Iraq, is suffering from some sort of malady which might explain her exceptionalism with regard to rules imposed by the school bosses? It seems to be. Noone disagrees that the head master is nuts to give her such a rediculously disproportionate sentence for what is a petty offence. but to say that it is worse because the kid comes from a 'hotspot' is ludicrous.

I would hope that she has teachers who are smart and empathetic enough to understand that she should be able to expect that the war in Iraq would be addressed in school and that she should have an oppurtunity to talk about it etc. That is one thing, but the visit by mcaleese has nothing to do with where the students are from. It is another matter completely.

Now if a Palestinian kid decided s/he didnt want to stand up for the Israeli ambassador and was suspended i would be concerned, the 'offense' reflects the students backround and is understandable in that light. But thats not the case with the student in question, her nationality has nothing to do with it. we might as well be upset becasue the kid had brown hair and so should be excepted from the normal authoritarian course of things for that reason.

by two bits Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:11

It had nothing to do with education, and everything to do with an UNELECTED president (of which there are too many these days IMHO) using the kids as a photo-op for her self-promotion.

The teacher of course, was more than willing to play ball. And since when has it been an offense in an Irish school for a student someone to pose for a photo?

It's very dishonest to 'visit' the kids long enough for the press to take the photos, and then want to get out asap.

I think that the student was more than entitled to ask for a photo.

Of course the teacher was scared of 'offending' the 'honoured guest.

further proof that things change very slowly...

by McAleese Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:15

Scene... president visits school.. all very nice. Everyone must be on best behaviour for the nice lady... or else...

Iraqi student learns what Irish school is all about.

Follow instructions from teachers no matter how senseless the instructions are.
Do not think for yourself.
Do not ask question authority.

by iosaf Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:36

Well done little Miss Zainab Kadhum.
that photo was worth it. wasn't it? All the best people got suspended / expelled / detained, but very few managed to get into national print media and international electronic media for it. I look forward to reading your name again and again in these next few years.

by Wondering Mon Nov 29, 2004 05:50

I wonder if "jd" and "Elle" are the same person? Same outlandish reaction to opinions he doesn't agree with. Let me guess...a troll who has it in for the catholic workres.

by Elle Mon Nov 29, 2004 16:49

By all accounts the President was invited to the school - so she did not actively seek out the photo-op. Anyway, I don't want to get into the position of defending this particular President. To Deirdre Clancy I would say that I stand over what I have written - you attempted to make an issue out of the fact that the pupil in question is Iraqi when her nationality is just not relevant....she was disciplined for disobeying a school rule, not for being from Iraq or for trying to touch the President. You should know Deirdre that in this country we have enough to worry about in our schools (much of this worry caused incidentally by Catholics) without looking for problems where there simply are none.

by jd Mon Nov 29, 2004 22:28

wondering, just because Elle and I agree that Zainab Kadhum's nationality has nothing to do with the actions of the headmaster hardly means we are the same person. And what "outlandish reaction" are you referring to? also I dont know why you assum,e we're both 'he', (Elle is a womans name afterall). And i had no idea Ms Clancy is a Catholic Worker, but now that i do it makes no difference. Perhaps it might explain why she is immediately sympathetic to Zainab as an Iraqi rather than as an 'ordinary' student, the other is compelling for Christians. They need to be saved more than 'we' do.

by come on Tue Nov 30, 2004 18:01

It makes no difference if she's an Iraqi or Irish, the girl was suspended for breaking school rules. This is one of the biggest 'events' a school could have and she was given strict deliberate instructions on what she could do - and she broke them.

The collapse of discipline in schools over the last two decades (I did leaving cert in 94) and noticed the change already - is very depressing.

The principal had every right to be furious she breached guidelines, there are more lessons in life to be learned at school than just exam grades.

by R. Isible Tue Nov 30, 2004 18:55

QUOTE: there are more lessons in life to be learned at school than just exam grades.

Do what you're told?

I'm not particularly exercised about this story, it's not clear that the student was making a political statement (in which case I'd completely support her) as opposed to just wanting to have her photo taken.

by Moi Wed Dec 01, 2004 18:12

I think the school in question were totally justified in suspending her. The school gave specific instructions to all pupils not to ask for personal photos with the president. The girl in full knowledge disregarded the order and put the president in an awkward position by asking for a photo. Of course the president was going to oblige her, I bet you anything if the president refused as she had done to other students that girl would be in the paper crying about how the irish president snubbed her as she was iraqi. The girl in question has been a vast deal of trouble to the school before.
Balinteer community school is such a fantastic school not only does it cater for children with disablities but is also a disadvantaged school with international students, regardless the school has to deal with a lot of social problems and I think for all the good work they do that girl acted absolutely disgustingly. The school was completely justified in suspending her as they would have done to any other pupil regardless of class or race

by Moi Wed Dec 01, 2004 18:16

Oh and by the way I got suspended when I was 14 in school for a day as the heels of my shoes were half an inch too high, so I don't think 5 days suspension for what she did was over the top!