Mary Kelly addresses 100th RSF Ard-Fheis

by bangers morrison Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:34

So what. Mary kelly is entitled to support yesterdays men if she wants. She still got stitched up for defending Ireland's Neutrality

by Barry Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:02

I notice this article was posted by someone who calls themself "RSF watch" .Perhaps I could suggest there are more productive things you could be doing with your time.

Republican Sinn Fein are an entirely legal political party and Mary Kelly has every right to address them on a political platform, especially given their stance on Irish neutrality. Compared to the violations of both Irish and international law currently taking place in Shannon, Josephine Haydens offence pales into insignificance.

I presume RSF watch is a subscriber to the "Big bombs good, small bombs bad" school of thought we are so accustomed to on this island.

by the farce Tue Nov 16, 2004 13:16

Mary kelly has (like all of us) freedom of choice in whom or whatever she chooses to suport or stand with.
Mayr Kelly has always been a republican and at least is consistant in her loyalties.
Her particular act of bravery was not an act of terrorism but indeed a defensive act of peace and neutrality.
History has also documented that the republican movement of this country were the ones who fought against the imperialist opressors and gained the neutrality status at a great cost and loss of life. SF watch maybe could do with a bit of FF watch and / or turn that critical eye upon themselves and the motives behind their comments.
Mary Kelly acted in defense of this nation. She stood on a platform with others who are trying to politically and actually support her bravery.
Mary stands for peace and neutrality, whomever she stands beside.

by RSF Watch Tue Nov 16, 2004 15:03

RSF Watch is opposed not only to the big bombs but also to the small ones, which are just as capable of blowing people to bits as witnessed in Omagh some years ago.

Mary Kelly is entitled to go and speak to whoever she wants. Equally, indymedia readers are entitled to read about her activities.

Mary Kelly is the Irish anti-war movement's greatest asset and liability. By axing the plane she took a stand, but by associating with the anti-democrats of RSF she's preventing that groundswell of sympathy for what she did in Shannon developing further. By associating with that party, which purposts that a secret army of armchair generals is the legitimate government of Ireland, Mary Kelly is basically giving the two fingers to the Irish electorate, regardless of party they support.

by Con Lee Tue Nov 16, 2004 17:16

Anthony Mcintyre has in the Blanket web site referred to CIRA as " brownshirts" because of their kidnapping and torture of somebody they disagreed with. McDonagh's friend and colleague, William Hughes, has praised and recommended the book Imperium by Francis Parker Yockey, a book dedicated to Adolph Hitler. One of CIRA's members has been convicted in connection with the Omagh atrocity. Advocating peace in Iraq and terrorism in Ireland is hardly a coherent political position. While in Ireland McDonagh has been posing a Vietnam Veteran. Not true. He voluntarily joined the U.S. Military after the Vietnam war was over. The poor foolish youngmen who listened to O Bradaigh and went to England on a bombing campaign are now serving long and hard sentences and they are forgotten by McDonagh. A few years ago McDonagh and Gerry McGeough organized an Irish Race conference in NYC. McGeough has progressed to being the ally of the fascist, Justin Barrett. McDonagh promotes his neo-fascist crony, William Hughes on WBAi.

by Barry Tue Nov 16, 2004 21:25

I am neither a member or supporter of RSF although I would agree with some of their political analysis.

The incident Anthony McIntyre refers to concerns the abduction and interrogation of a suspected informer within the CIRA. It has nothing to do with someone disagreeing with their politics.

The man you refer to as having been convicted in relation to Omagh is Dundalk buisinessman Colm Murphy.

Colm Murphy was convicted in a no-jury court without a shred of evidence against him except perjured Garda statements. It was admitted even by the states own forensic expert and proven by ESDA analysis that the Garda notes which falsely claimed he had admitted a role in Omagh whilst in Garda custody had been extensively rewritten and falsified, to the extent that they were a concoction of lies and Garda Special Branch fabrications.

. It was also proven and admitted in court that the Guards themselves had repeatedly lied under oath to the court and the judge himself declared it a disgrace. (despite this he still admitted their testimony as evidence)

The only other evidence was that of a prosecution witness who claimed his false statement against Colm Murphy had been entirely concocted by the Garda Special Branch who had then threatened him with all sorts of dire consequences and forced him into signing it. He then renounced the statement he was forced to sign against Mr Murphy.

The guards who fabricated this evidence and lied in court were caught out doing it before in another high profile case. They have also been the subject of intense investigation into widespread and systematic Garda corruption.

Intense and high-profile media coverage prior to the trial basically declared him as the guilty man on numerous ocasions, in a clear case of trial by tv where public distaste and media hysteria was deliberately created against him. In short Colm Murphy was the victim of a political show-trial.

Despite this Colm Murphy was found guilty and sentenced to 14 years, not on any evidence but simply PROVEN and ADMITTED garda special-branch lies. His conviction is subject to appeal and has been condemned even by Fr Denis Faul who certainly is no friend to Republicanism.

Before you also attempt to smear Mary Kelly with the Omagh brush, Indymedias viewers should be aware of the sinister activities of British, Garda and FBI agent-provacteurs in the tragic events which occured.

The damning report by the PSNI ombudsman Nuala O'Loan has highlighted the fact that state agencies were up to their necks in the events at Omagh.

Garda agent Paddy Dixon is alleged to have played a central role in the bombing. Garda special branch, through their agent, supplied the car used, knowing implicitly it would be used in a bombing. It was deliberately allowed to proceed unhindered.

Dixon has recently fled Ireland, although the Guards claimed to have no idea of his whereabouts. Despite supposedly being wanted by British authorites for questioning in relation to Omagh, he was detained by Customs in England the other week for being in possession of a huge sum of sterling banknotes. Inexplicably he was released and has since disappeared once more.

A British agent named Kieran Keely, who goes under the psuedonym Kevin Fulton, claims his RUC handlers were fully aware of the plot. He has claimed that an associate of his, who he believes was a British agent also, actually constructed the bomb. He claims to have warned his handlers about the impending attack, who apparently told him "not to worry about it" Despite this the alleged bombmaker has never been questioned, north or south. Indeed former RUC Chief Ronnie Flanagan simply declared that the man was not a suspect and never will be.

FBI/MI6 agent provocateur David Rupert lived near the scene of the bombing and is alleged to have scouted Omagh itself for a bombing attack. He fled Ireland in its immediate aftermath but returned when it became clear his cover was intact. He has since described himself under oath in court as a "money-whore" while giving evidence against Michael McKevitt in another political showtrial. An american law enforcemnt officer also described Rupet as "a man who would do absolutely anything, provided the price was right"

On the day of the bombing, despite being a garrison town, the British Army were confined to base for what their officers described as " operational security reasons". The job of evacuating civilians was then left to the RUC, who according to eye-witnesses (and as they have admitted themselves) directed civilians directly towards the bomb instead of away from it. People making their way to safety were turned back and sent to their deaths.The security cordon tape was placed exactly beside the bomb-car. No RUC officers were injured in the following blast.
.

Nuala O'Loans report has since established that the RUCs operational log, which recorded the location of the bomb warning as well as all intelligence breifings for that day, mysteriously disappeared from Omagh RUC station immediately following the explosion. Its whereabouts are still unknown.

She has also established that the RUC'S supposed investigation was in fact a sham. Key evidence, namely the bomb car, was in fact dumped into a skip shortly afterwards. Indeed the fact that a group of British and Garda agents seem to have carried out much of the attack means there was very little to actually investigate. RUC chief Flanagan declared on the day of the Ombudsmans report he would commit public suicide if its findings were true. Unfortunately he has repeatedly failed to carry out this promise.

At the inquest into the bombing, a number of families who have distanced themselves from Michael Gallaghers agenda driven Support Group, employed the use of renowned London Barrister MIchael Mansfield. Under questioning from Mansfield RUC officers on the ground that day inexplicably exercised their right to remain silent, and then sought immediate assistance from legal representatives in order to avoid giving answers to Mansfields questions.

Given the history of the British security agencies in Ireland and their extensive use of terrorism for political ends, as well as the findings of the O'Loan report, there is now a strong suspicion that the Omagh atrocity was yet another infamous "black-operation".(of which there have been many)

Its effects politically have been to allow the British and Irish states to adopt Draconian measures to silence Republican opposition to British rule. Republicans can now be sent to jail for seven years on membership charges , the only evidence needed being a senior Gardas opinion. (of course we all know guards dont tell lies in court) . Many of the political prisoners Con Lee refers to are in jail simply on a Gardas opinion. This is effectively internment under another name.

It should also be remembered that the atrocity occured on the very doorstep of 32csm chairman Francie Mackey, a former chairman of Omagh District council and a senior nurse in Omagh general hospital. From that day onwards the most prominent Northern voice of Republican opposition to the Stormont agreement was effectively politically silenced, isolated and demonised.

Since then all republican opposition to the continuing presence of the British Government and the Hillsboro deal has been tarred with the brush of bloodthirsty extremism and the slaughter of innocent Irish people. The words "dissident republicans" are invariably and routinely followed by a reference to Omagh still on our media 6 years later.

It seems Con Lee wishes to similarly blacken a brave and principled Irishwoman with these events also. He claims that he is merely pointing this out in case the Irish anti-war movement loses support.

Of course he couldnt have any agenda other than not wanting to see the Irish anti-war movement tarnished by Mary Kellys bloodthirsty extremism, could he ?

by Devil Dog Tue Nov 16, 2004 21:43

This claim that "whoever bombed Omagh, it certainly wasn't the RIRA, no sirree Bob" is on a par with the lie that John Bruton resigned from Fine Gael because it wasn't nationalist enough...none so blind etc.

BTW, will you 32 CSM lads be adopting the tactics of the headhackers and suicide bombers you support in Iraq in your struggle for crime proceeds, oops, I meant "for the freedom of Ireland".

by Barry Tue Nov 16, 2004 22:05

Which section of Nuala Oloans report do you disagree with ?

by Hmmmmmm Tue Nov 16, 2004 22:54

This intrest the east coast wannabe irishmen AKA Yanks who had a romantisiced view of Ireland much influenced by NORAID to keep the collection buckets filled in Irish pubs on 5th Ave to support Irish POWS and buy the odd armalite as well.
Most of them have sons&daughters out in Iraq.
Wonder would they be intrested to know how their reception was on the Ol sods soil after they have been supporting financially the "freedom fighters"of the IRA and the same organization is spitting at their sons and daughters passing thru.

by Interested Tue Nov 16, 2004 23:31

I did not know that the garda special branch had supplied the car for the bombing, as pointed out by Barry. That raises the question of what their role may have been in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings back in 1974.

by Barry Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:27

The links between these 2 organisations have been extensively recorded. Former British intelligence operatives such as Fred Holroyd and Colin Wallace have given detailed and unsettling accounts of how the branch have routinely colluded with British intelligence.

It now appears that in 1974 for example members of the mass-murder gang had been identified by a number of eyewitnesses from Garda photo-fits. The Garda were aware of the gangs identities (and who controlled them) within hours but orders came from the top to drop the case.

It also appears that the branch had shown British operatives around different parts of Dublin and gone on regular drinking binges with them in the months prior to the bombings. These operatives are believed to have directed the murder gang and constructed the bombs also (which it appears the branch also knew from day one). Loyalists did not, and still dont posess the expertise needed for such a co-ordinated series of explosions.

These contacts carried on as normal after the bombings. A more detailed account can be found in Don Mullans book on Dublin Monaghan (including an interview with the branchman/ British agent codenamed "the badger"),.Another book on the bombings by former RTE and Yorkshire TV journalist Joe Tiernan(Dublin/Monaghan and the murder Triangle) provides an eye-opening read about who really pulls many of the Branchs' strings.

If anyone thinks this is a thing of the past they should remember that when the state finally held a service of remembrance on the 20th anniversary of the massacre, the Branch showed up outside the cathedral and jotted down the relatives numberplates in little black books.

When the monument in Talbot street was finally erected the branch showed up en masse at its unveiling too and again acted in an overtly sinister manner, jotting down names, pointing at relatives and frowning.(as if the victims were subversives)

It has been revealed that all Special Branch files relating to the bombings have just recently strangely "disappeared" from their secure Dublin Archives (just like the tout Paddy Dixon and the big book in Omagh RUC station)

There are also disturbing questions about the branch in a number of other cases were Irish citizens have been murdered by British army agents. The murder of Seamus Ludlow whose inquest was reopend only this wek and the murder of Dubliner Martin Docherty who bravely confronted a Brit Death squad trying to wipe out the Widow Scallons pub are just 2. (it appears the usual branch surveillance was conveniently withdrawn on the night of that murder)

There are unfortunately a number of others but try and get a read of the books Ive mentioned. I can assure you its NOT republican fantasies Im describing. It would also explain why I get up on my high horse so often about these types of subject. Im usually fairly easy going.

by Devil Dog Wed Nov 17, 2004 00:34

Yes indeed, nothing quite as entertaining as a sanctimonious, self-righteous Republican supporter of murder airing his fantasies.

"Brit Death Squads"? Where's the evidence British or Irish security forces were in cahoots with the LOYALISTS who were going to attack the Widow Scallan's?

Wouldn't an IRA ASU be fairly described as a "squad"? And when it murdered people, couldn't it then be fairly described as a "Death Squad"?

You actually appear quite sane and intelligent but some of your beliefs suggest otherwise - and I find it hilarious that someone who doesn't think the RIRA was responsible for Omagh can advise someone else to seek psychiatric help.

by Barry Wed Nov 17, 2004 02:48

The group which claimed responsibility for the attack on the Widow Scallans was the Portadown Unit of the Mid Ulster UVF. One of its leaders was the infamous mass-murderer and British intelligence agent Robin Jackson aka the Jackal.

The Jackals murderous career stretches back to the early 70s when he was a key member of the gang which bombed Dublin/ Monaghan and carried out approximately 70 murders on both sides of the border in what was known as the murder triangle. (including the infamous Miami Showband massacre)

This DEATH-SQUAD (for thats what it was) included among others RUC sergeant William McCaughey, RUC man John Weir as well as numerous other members of the British security forces.

It was also directed by the infamous SAS captain Robert Nairac.(this has been attested to by Wallace, Holroyd and Weir) Nairacs senior officer was an intelligence Colonel called "Bunny" Dearsley, an experienced ATO (Explosives expert) who Don Mullan believes may have constructed the actual bombs.

It has emerged recently that the plastic explosive Frangex may have been used in the bombs construction. Frangex was only manufactured in the 26cos and was frequently used by the PIRA. This would indicate that material seized by the crown forces from captured dumps found its way into the hands of the murder gang somehow. .

This cannot be proven as, surprise, sur-fuckin-prise, the Irish Forensics and Pathology Dept were ordered by the Irish Government to hand over the bomb debris just after the killings to the British Authorities. No reason or explanation was ever given why such major evidence in the states biggest murder should be sent out of the jurisdiction.

The prime physical evidence then "disappeared" once it crossed the border and was never forensically examined. Chief Irish Forensic Scientist Dr Jim Donovan gives his angry account of what happened in the aforementioned 2 books.

A senior officer in Irish Army intelligence has stated that this British Intelligence officer and explosives expert called unannounced at his home one morning accompanied by the Branch detective known as the Badger, whereupon he attempted to recruit him as a British agent (an illegal act by itself) This was only weeks after the DM bombings.The Irish officer reported this criminal activity, as well as the branchmans role but no action was ever taken. This would indicate that the Badgers activities as well as those of the British were known about and at least tolerated at the highest level.

As for the widow Scallans attack I have already described to you the links between between British intelligence and the Mid ulster UVF that claimed responsibility(which during the mid 80s and 90s was effectively directed by Colonel Gordon Kerr of 14th intel and his Force Research Unit. Kerr is currently the British military attache to Beijing)

Kerrs unit had also armed the loyalist groupings (especially in mid-ulster) with massive weapons shipments from S.Africa.
Also leading this grouping along with the untouchable agent Jackson, who was still killing away unhindered, were the notorious killers Billy Wright and Mark "Swinger" Fulton (both of whom are strongly suspected of being British agents and have both also died in controversial circumstances whilst in British custody)

On the night of the Widow Scallans attack ( during a republican social function), the traditional special Branch presence outside the event was nowhere to be seen when the British death squad attacked. This was during the height of a loyalist killing spree now known to have been orchestrated by the FRU and RUC special branch .

Martin Dochertys' family has demanded to know why on the night the bar was attacked, the branch were so notable by their absence. Their common practise was to monitor all people coming in and out of such do's taking names etc.The branch have trotted out a flimsy non-excuse of operational reasons. Perhaps like the disappearance of the Dublin/monaghan files last year, like so many other things, this was just a coincidence.

Various major inquiries into British collusion with, as well as directing the activities of, loyalist killers are underway at the moment. It has been abundantly clear now for years that the British army have been arming them, directing them and even selecting many of their targets. It has also been clear that the Irish authorities have, by their own admission an excellent and close working relationship with the same British security forces responsible for these crimes.

How "excellent" this relationship is and how far this "co-operation" extends, I'll leave up to Indymedia viewrs to decide and investigate for themselves. Indymedia readers may also be interested in what happened in the 26cos only last week.

A former intelligence officer in Colonel Kerrs Force Research Unit codenamed Martin Ingram has been spilling the beans on many of the British Armys black operations. He left the Brits and took up residence in the south. He was due to give evidence to an inquiry into the FRU,s activity south of the border and issues of Garda collusion etc. Only last week 2 branchmen arrived at his door demanding to know what hed be telling the judical inquiry. Ingram is now so afraid for his safety he has now fled Ireland altogether so we may not hear from him for a while yet.

As for the Real IRAs role in the events at Omagh, I have never once stated that the organisation was not responsible. The Real IRA publicly acknowledged its responsibility immediately afterwards and called an instantaneous ceasefire. It has borne the brunt of a massive public, political,media and security backlash since then. Many of its members have paid a heavy price for their involvement in the organisation. Its supporters have been vilified harassed and demonised ever since.

What I have referred to is the now publicly acknowledged use of government agents, AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT as agent provocateurs.

It is becoming increasingly clear that these agents within the republican movement, as well as the agencies which directed them, are almost wholly responsible for the tragic events that day in August 1998. It is also clear that the authorities, north and south, had at least prior warning of the bombing. It is now believed by many republicans the concept of the entire operation was driven by these security agencies The activities of the crown forces on the day are extremely odd, if not downright sinister.

32csm chairman Francie Mackie has called for an independent (and possibly international public inquiry into what happened) I fully agree. However with the disappearance of key witnesses, key evidence (just like in the DUblin Monaghan case) it seems we will continue on with the witch-hunts trial by TV, and garda/RUC stitch-ups we have become so accustomed to.

by Malachy Wed Nov 17, 2004 07:01

Devil Dog, have you noticed that your responses to Barry's well argued points are nothing but snide remarks and sarcasm? Good debating technique, mate.
Good on ya, Barry. You're running circles around this guy.

by tom Wed Nov 17, 2004 14:12

Barry has written well . But shouldn't it be pointed out that the Rira and Cira car bombing campaigns were playing into the hands of the sinister state agencies he mentions? At the time of the Omagh bombings British military intelligence had been running these type of dirty tricks operations for years ; and they were not going to allow the chance of doing a deal with the provies for the pacification of Ireland go down the tubes . Neither were they going to allow an alternative militant republican leadership emerge . Ruari O 'B and Micky Mc weren't politcal novices in 1998 . They should have anticipated the reaction to their campaign.

by barry Wed Nov 17, 2004 15:04

Yes Tom, unfortunately you are absolutely right. Although it would be entirely wrong to lay the blame on the 2 men you have mentioned.

Republicans have to assume collective responsibility for the use of a tactic which was open to abuse by the crown forces. (which I believe they have done for the last 6 years.) They must also assume responsibility for the poor internal security structures at that time which allowed infiltration like that to occur with catastrophic results, not only for them but more particularly the people of Omagh.

It is worth remembering though the situation was very fluid at that time, with the Stormont Agreement being forced onto the scene at a dizzying speed, and being frenziedly marketed as "peace" and an historic cure to Irelands ills (which it quite clearly wasnt and isnt) Republicans obviously allowed themselves get drawn into a situation were they reacted with a knee-jerk rather than calmly sitting down and ..well ..plotted and schemed.

Thankfully since then the car-bomb tactic was largely consigned to the dustbin of history were it belongs. Since then we have seen RIRA use tactics such the infiltration of BA bases to plant bombs (nice to see them being infiltrated for once, or was it twice... no they did it numerous times), mortar and gun attacks, and not forgetting my own personal favourite - the RPG 22 attack on MI6 HQ in London.

by shinner Wed Nov 17, 2004 16:00

An amazing amount given that you only exist from 1986. For this to be accurate you would of needed an average of 5.5 a year. And given R'O'B can barely drink soup through a straw I doubt it has been that many.

by brenners Wed Nov 17, 2004 16:02

RSF now have an armed wing - its called garda special branch.

by Big Gerry Wed Nov 17, 2004 16:11

Have the shinners joined yet ?

by Wee Martin Wed Nov 17, 2004 16:45

Why nat Gerry. Sure didnt we sign up too eveything else like ? Ceasefires, Stormont, Decommissioning ... were joining the PSNI in a few weeks anyway so why not the oul branch while were at it, hi !!!

by I cant tie my shoes but can lead a liberation movement. Wed Nov 17, 2004 17:14

As well as the CSM we now have the New Republican Forum, also RSF and the CIRA, RIRA, The I cant believe its not the IRA, INLA and a host of other dissidents all with one common characteristic, they are bloody useless.

by Anonymous Sat Nov 20, 2004 03:00

What is all this debate?

R.S.F was founded in 1986 after brady and his cronies walked out of the Mansion house because of their inability to accept the democratic wishes of the membership of S.F and despite a message of support for the abolition of abstentionism from the army council. Fact! so the 100th ard fheis claim is a joke.

Yes the Brits and the Gardai colluded to murder innocent civilians, yes the Loyalists colluded with the Brits to kill innocent civilians.....However We done a fair good job of killing innocent civilians ourselves and we managed it without much collusion at all, aren't we the brave pure boys!!!

R.S.F is inextricably linked with the C.I.R.A and is therefore not a part of the democratic process. This process has shown that the vast majority of the inhabitants of this Island and about 95% of the Nationalist community support the G.F.A.

Mary Kellys claim to be anti war is inconsistent insofar as she appears to support the undemocratic murder machine of R.S.F/C.I.R.A

However in Mary Kellys defence it has to be said that she is the only consistent member of the Irish peace movement in her stance of opposing both U.S and British troops on Irish soil. The reality being that there are twice as many Brits in the Occupied Six Counties as there are in Iraq, 16,000 here 8,000 in Iraq!!! It is unfortunate that in doing so she has aligned herself with a man, and his organisation,who had he gained power would have made Saddam look like a beginner.

Perhaps the Yanks could route their flights through R.A.F Aldergrove and pick up the Brits on the way. It's just a suggestion!!!!

by barry Sat Nov 20, 2004 04:50

was founded in 1969 when O'Bradaigh and his cronies walked out of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis for exactly the same reasons. (Adams and McGuiness didnt) The army council at that time also supported an end to abstentionism. (therefore the sticks were right then ? Difference is what exactly ?)

I love the way you start off with "what is all this debate". Debate as we know is a huge no-no among Sinn Feins control freaks.

In 1986 O'Bradaigh argued that the move to end abstentionism in the free-state was the first step along the road to entering Stormont and accepting British rule in Ireland. The Adams leadership vehemently denied this. It turns out they were lying to the Sinn Fein and IRA membership all along. O'Bradaigh was entirely correct in his analysis.

When Adams and his cronies finally signed up to British rule in Hillsbrough, a number of those in the Provo Army council and Army Executive agreed that O'Bradaigh had been right in 1986 and walked away themselves. More are still walking away to this day.

How much electoral support did Connolly and Pearse have ? They were firstly ridiculed and then spat upon by the Irish electorate if I remember rightly.

The GFA itself is simply the military and political objectives of the British Establishment tarted up a bit and marketed as "peace" - Ulsterisation, Normalisation and Criminalisation of republican POWs. The GFA was a total victory for the securocrats whod directed the loyalist death-squads. That was their purpose.Its acceptance has now permitted the Brit Direct ruler Paul Murphy to declare that there never was a liberation struggle in the first place, just "a prolonged sectarian riot ". 10 hungerstrikers died for that ?

As for comparing Ruari O'B to Saddam Hussein ? Adams and McGuinness had undermined him as weak for years for having called ceasefires and engaged in talks with Unionists. His fair and sensible Eire Nua proposals were thrown out by them for being a "sop to unionism".

If hed been anything like Saddam those boys would have went down a hole the first time they said boo. Unlike under their leadership genuine debate was actually tolerated. When was the last time Sinn Fein debated anything.

The wannabe dictators are in Connolly House. Just recently they sent over 100 of their personal militia to the Rathenraw housing estate in Antrim when the entire Sinn Fein organisation there told Adams and his cronies to get stuffed. Ex-POWS and a pregnant woman were threatened with death if they didnt stay silent.This isnt the first time it happened and it wont, unfortunately, be the last.

by Con Lee Mon Nov 22, 2004 02:13

CIRA denies any involvement in the Omagh atrocity. RIRA claims Cira were involved. It should really be viewed as the culmination of 30 years of a futile, failed policy of armed struggle. The revulsion throughout Ireland after Omagh was deeply felt and continues. Whatever lingering support there may have been for armed action no longer exists. To continue in a failed and futile war is now politically stupid. Because Mary Kelly supports terrorism in Ireland and peace in Iraq her case has received little support. Neither does she help her case when some of her closest supporters, such as John McDonagh, have clear neo-Fascist associations.

by anonymous Mon Nov 22, 2004 02:41

sorry but im not a shinner barry. My reference to why the debate was that it is irrelevant. I don't think there should be no debate. I'm just aware that both sides are liars and those of us who were there and are now unaligned can see that therefore the debate is irrelevant.

the difference is :
after 1969 there was a feud. The vast majority of Oglaigh went with the newly formed Provisional leadership thus following Brady.

After 1986, there was no feud. Virtually no member of the Army followed Brady and the few who did were of very little significance.

these are undeniable facts barry.

by barry Mon Nov 22, 2004 14:54

Firstly I would point out that I am most definitely not a supporter of either RSF or the CIRA. I referred to the events of 1986 only because you raised them in the first place.(I was there myself also, although admittedly as a spotty teenager and devoted follower of Gerry and Martin)

I believe however that those events are relevant to any debate on the GFA , in that the entire process building up to the Hillsbrough agreement relied upon treachery, lies, deceit, betrayal and murder. As leading Sinn Fein members have regularly pointed out, as far as they are concerned todays "peace-process" began at the 1986 Ard Fheis.

The GFA is almost entirely dependent upon the personality cult of Adams etc. The treacherous nature of these personalities are highly relevant to the political situation republicans find themselves in today.

You are correct however in stating that hardly any serving IRA members followed O'Bradaigh and Daithi O'Conaill out of the mansion House in 86. (I didnt follow them out either for that matter). In fact they made no attempt to create another army and instructed RSF supporters to continue assisting the ongoing resistance campaign in whatever capacity they could.

Numerous IRA vols did however disagree with Adams, but opted to stay within Oglaigh na hEireainn. This was to have tragic consequences for not only them but the struggle in general. The bloody events of Loughall and Gibraltar are only 2 examples of the fate which befell IRA vols which werent too enamoured with the Adams/McGuinness leadership.(Ed Moloneys book "the Secret History of Sinn Fein " gives an in-depth analysis of the events of that tragic period)

A primary reason why Adams was able to consolidate support for his position was the huge shipments of Libyan arms which were coming into the country. O'Bradaighs claims that the movement was being sold out were met with incredulity in most quarters.

Retrospectively however, many of those who dismissed his argument at the time, later agreed, that in this at least, he was entirely correct.

The fact that these same weapons are now in the process of being surrendered while Ireland remains under British occupation, means that R'OBs analysis of Adams intentions, and the process of betrayal which would inevitably follow, was spot on.

While I dont support RSF, I would much rather see Mary Kelly stand beside them than the undemocratic murder machine of the Brit occupation forces.

I would also take issue with your claim that the vast majority of Oglaigh followed the Provisionals in 1969/70. The fact is that the majority supported the Stick leadership, which made it necessary to create a "provisional" Army Council in the first place.

The vast bulk of PIRA members were either entirely new recruits who joined after the split, or older republicans who had been dismissed or otherwise sidelined by the Republican leadership prior to it.

Finally I would like to offer my humble apologies for having mistaken you for a shinner. This was a dreadful assumption on my part and I hope that you are'nt personally offended.

by MaryKelly_is_in_CPI Mon Nov 22, 2004 18:37

What to the Communist Party/Connolly Books think of Mary Kelly speaking at the RSF conference? Mary is a member of the CPI, so I am a bit surprised by her speaking at the RSF conference

by Saerbhreathach - Irish Republican Bulletin Board Sat Dec 04, 2004 05:14

There is a great deal of misinformation and mistaken claims regarding Sinn Féin Poblachtach (aka RSF) on Indymedia and this thread specifically.

I would like to invite those interested in learning and actually doing a bit of research for themselves to visit the Irish Republican Bulletin Board at:

http://phpbb.galacforums.com/IRBB/index.php

The regular contributers are often willing to answer any questions you have, offer their opinions and share their personal expierences with those wishing to learn about Republicanism.

by To the con man Sat Dec 04, 2004 13:30

From what I remember, it was RUC men going through the rubble giving first aid to the survivors, remember taht next time you want to mention Omagh

by Barry Mon Dec 06, 2004 18:10

From what I remember it was RUC men who hid behind their solicitors and refused to answer questions from Michel Mansfield at the inquest of the Omagh victims.

by Barry Tue Dec 07, 2004 01:25

I support the 32 county soverieignty movement. Thats a simple fact, hardly a confession, and Ill post on this site If I bloody well feel like it. For you in particular to accuse anyone of having a neck like a jockeys nadgers means youve on like Franki Dettoris.

The chairman of 32csm is Francie Mackey, a nurse in Omagh General Hospital and a prominent resident of the town (its former council chairman)

Are you seriously suggesting Republicans thought it would be a good idea to drum up support for their argument by slaughtering civilians on that mans doorstep ? If someone wanted to do the most damage possible to the 32csm they couldnt have picked a better place to do it than in Omagh.

Who benefitted from the atrocity ?

If you really want to slot a round betwwen the eyes of the people responsible why not try and track down the agent Paddy Dixon who supplied the car. Paddys convenient vanishing act from both Garda and British custody, despite supposedly being wanted for questioning in such a major case is a trifle odd wouldnt you agree. So odd in fact that questions about how the authorities let him slip through their fingers have been asked in the House of Commons.

Odd too that the operation log from Omagh RUC Station just disappeared from the local barracks as well isnt it. What if that pesky OLoan woman had gotten her hands on it ? Who is she to point fingers and ask questions about the great RUC anyway.

A wee bit odd that the peelers ran for their solicitors and refused to answer Mansfields questions during the inquest as well Mr Dog.

Perhaps in your oddball world of 5.56 lead pill this isnt grounds to suspect something dirty is afoot. The brits, being cricket afficionadoes and having invented the Queensberry rules dont engage in either black operations and dirty tricks against their opponents. Youve made it perfectly clear you dont believe they would ever have civilians slaughtered for their political ends.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why this odd behaviour from the authorities isnt in the slightest bit sinister. (same as how you reckon they had nothing to do with Dublin Monaghan and the loyalist mass murder campaign either) Or maybe youll just make another sarcastic, pro-brit, nonsensical comment with a bit of military phraseology thrown in.

by buster Sun Dec 12, 2004 17:25

From what I remember it was RUC men who hid behind their solicitors and refused to answer questions from Michel Mansfield at the inquest of the Omagh victims.

No they did'nt, they did not answer questions that would compromise their sources, in other words expose double agent identities.

by r Sun Dec 12, 2004 21:18

Yes, but it was a brit soldiers wedding, no hiding place for the scum.

by by s Mon Dec 13, 2004 14:07

But under the rules of war an army is not allowed to target civilian events.........O I guess ira are'nt a real army then!

And while we're on the subject when the americans ACCIDENTALLY dropped a laser guided bomb on a wedding party in Iraq members of this board were hopping mad!!

by RICHIE WEXFORD Mon Dec 13, 2004 18:06

"They went down in the mire to destroy us and our nation, and down after them we had to go" .......Tom Barry

by Barry Tue Dec 14, 2004 08:47

Exactly. The question is are they the undercover sources who told them the bomb was coming or the ones who sent there in the first place ?

Who benefited from Omagh ? What have they got to hide ?

by anonymous Wed Dec 15, 2004 03:18

You seem to be suggesting that Loughgall and Gibraltar were set ups?

For the record I know nothing of Gibraltar but I do know that the book you refer to is wrong in it's analysis of Loughgall. For one thing there was a 9th Vol there. He was outside the cordon and he was there to bring J.L back across the Border. As for the analysis of J.L's opinions, they were well known, it was also well known that he was a dedicated Marxist, it was certaintly known to me since I had a number of conversations on the subject with him.

BTW , most oglaigh in the north went with the provos in '69.

and I agree, you are entitled to be a member of 32csm.
I'm non aligned, awaiting developments.

Those contemplating action should remember what brought the Brits to the table, it wasn't dead bodies it was serious economic losses!

Bombs in built up areas are war crimes no matter whose bombs they are.

Stock exchanges, vital infrastructural projects such as motorways, railways, power stations? sure thats N.V.D.A!!!!

by Barry Wed Dec 15, 2004 08:52

All I will say about Loughall, which has been in the public domain for some time now, is that immediately following the massacre the family of H-Block escapee Padraig McKearney pointed the finger squarely at Adams and McGuinness. They permitted IRA vols to render full honours but told the 2 leaders to get lost and not show their faces at the funeral.

They were and are convinced that a corrupt leadership had simply ensured these men were removed. The Loughall men had intended setting up a flying column, the Sinn Fein leadership stepped in and prevented them. Shortly afterwards they were surgically removed.

Similarly in Gibraltar , veteran IRA volunteer Dan McCann had been one of those who had attempted to lead a coup against Adams, along with Ivor Bell in 1985. A number of prominent republicans had grown deeply distrustful of the bearded one.

A primary reason for this attempt to remove him was the establishment of the infamous (and misleadingly named) internal security unit. This unit which was hand picked by Adams would have virtual control of ALL the northern commands internal security and therefore knowledge of most of its secrets.

We now know of course Gerrys hand picked bunch of supersleuths were quite possibly ALL MI6 agents. One was Fred Scapittici (steaknife), another was supergrass Eamon Collins. Yet another had been Kneecapped following the hungerstrikes, the reason being he had taken a job as an orderly in the HBlocks and helped torment POWS such as Bobby Sands by hosing them down in their cells. An out and out collaborator and scumbag.

The coup against Adams failed in 85. Bell was placed under a suspended death sentence along with his comrades. McCann was eventually persuaded by Adams that all was forgiven, asked to rejoin the IRA, and was promptly sent to his death.

As for the Brits being brought to the table, well, Adams didnt bring a whole lot back from it. All we got was the stinking GFA.

The GFA itself is simply every strand of British counter insurgency strategy since 1976 marketed well as "peace". British objectives in Ireland since the mid 70s have been Ulsterisation, Normalisation, Criminalisation of POWs, making some form of British rule acceptable to the nationalist population. The GFA incorporates every single one of these. These objectives have been delivered in full by Adams and his clique of dodgy individuals.

Men and women who would have been seen as opponents of this strategy, such as JL and others were quite simply and conveniently removed from the scene. Simultaneously the people responsible, British intelligence, armed the loyalists to the teeth and directed a campaign of wholesale slaughter against the civilian population in order to terrorise them into lowering their political aims.

The GFA is a document dripping with innocent Irish blood. I am convinced the blood of Omagh is all over it as well.

Why the cover up ? What are they hiding ?

by anonymous Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:54

Whatever happened after the Brits were brought to the table , we should remember the strategy that brought them there, it was a strategy long advocated within the movement by members who were not caught up in the blood lust of the time.
Whatever about the politicals and their "strategy" those who formulated, planned and executed the campaign of economic destruction in Britain were right. History will show them to have been right. The fact that their advances were lost through the influence of the politicals cannot be blamed on them.
Their victory has been turned into a defeat by the insistence on the humiliation of the movement.

What now? How do you suggest that Republicanism should move forward?

by Barry Wed Dec 15, 2004 23:27

Firstly, it must be clearly identified what British counter insurgency strategy is in Ireland. Ulsterisation, normalisation, criminalisation of republican POWs, making SOME form of British rule acceptable to the majority of nationalists.

These objectives were firstly captured from British army correspondence during the mid 70s and published by the IRA. They were later spelled out by the Brits themselves as they tried to crush the Blanketmen. Bobby Sands himself identified them in his famous address on the eve of his election victory.

Republicans in the main have simply forgotten them. They were encouraged to forget them and support "nationalist equality" (equal british citizenship by Adams etc)

In order to defeat British strategy therefore, every single one of these British objectives must not only be identified by republicans, but then undermined and eventually thwarted.

Unfortunately, the GFA, which has been sucfessfully marketed to the nationalist population as an historic compromise, consists entirely of every single one of these strands of British counter insurgency strategy.

Therefore the GFA, which is simply a collaborationist document, which delivers every single British military and political objective, must be rejected in its entirety by republicans. It offers us nothing but defeat.

I am a member of 32CSM. We as a movement are not so arrogant to suggest we possess the definitive blueprint for the acheivement of Irish freedom. This can only come through time, by republicans sharing their views and analyses and plans for the way ahead.

However what is vital is the issue of Irish sovereignty. Our duty as principled republicans is to defend the territorial and sovereign integrity of this nation, hence our submissions to the UN.

The way forward therefore is for true republicans to realise alternatives to the current process of not only capitulation, but outright collaboration which Adams and McGuinnes have embaked upon. The alternative to accepting British rule is simply NOT to accept it. The alternative to administering British rule is not to do so. The alternative to accepting the PSNI is simply to reject them. It isnt hard. It is by following these principles of Irish freedom that the definitive way forward can be found, and British objectives can be overcome.

by Devil Dog Thu Dec 16, 2004 18:12

Barry,

what possible benefits do the Brits reap by holding onto NI? Don't you think that if they could leg it out of the place tomorrow, they would?

by Barry Thu Dec 16, 2004 20:18

Ill answer you and ignore the troll.

Firstly I cant speak for the Brits. All i can do to answer your valid question (unlike this other eejit) is surmise.

Certainly we dont have any oil theyre after, unlike Iraq. Therefore there are obviously other reasons. These reasons, not being clear, must therefore be somewhat complicated, like life in general.

Their claim that they are here for altruistic reasons is absolute nonsense. One need only look at the last 30 years to see how the British government were up to their necks in sectarian slaughter. They were responsible even for arming the loyalist death squads in the first place. Dublin Monaghan, the murder triangle and scores of other nasty sectarian atrocities which their agents are directly implicated in put an end to that lie.

In fact at virtually every stage in Irish history they have fomented and assisted violent sectarianism to suit their own ends. They simply dont care about anyone here, only their own interests. Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

The reason the North is a sectarian mess is precisely because the British govt deliberately created it. Why does no such nastiness exist on any equivalent scale south of the border ? There are no shortage of republicans or protestants there either. Surely it is an unnatural state of affairs for catholics and protestants to be at each others throats. Who is directly responsible for this state of affairs then, only the Brits. Why ?

Another lie they frequently trotted out was they would love to leave, but couldnt be seen to lose face while they were under attack. The last 10 f***ing years have been relatively calm. Surely now they wouldnt lose any face whatsoever, but no. Direct ruler Paul Murphy made their postion clear recently , when he stated in light of acceptance of the GFA, as far as HMG are concerned there wasnt even a liberation struggle in the first place, just a "prolonged sectarian riot". According to them they belong here and absolutely no-one wanted them out in the first place. Britain is now firmly back singing from the "800 years of crime" hymnsheet.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever therefore to back up your assertion that the British establishment would love to leave. They quite clearly dont and have used every dirty trick in the book to remain.

Their reasons for staying are varied. There are various theories about them having nuclear capabilities in some of their military complexes here, which I suppose makes sense. Why not ? Others believe the threat of low intensity conflict here keeps their troops well trained and up to date with counter insurgency techniques and new technology which will come in very handy in other places (see Iraq, Bosnia etc). This undoubtedly adds to their international military prestige

Others reckon their sophisticated hilltop spyposts along the border are ideal for electronically monitoring much of the international commerce which takes place in financial centres in Dublin. Certainly they were caught out doing this in Paris a few years back, so it may be a factor. A key job of British intelligence is to keep British business ahead of the competition

Still more believe that Britain likes to keep a Guantanamo Bay type of place handy. Why else was the post-Gulf war summit held in Hillsboro co Down ? Surely to be well away from the attention of the Great British public.

I believe all this may be true, however the underlying reason(s) are found in the British constitution and how they run their own country.

Personally I believe that in order for us to attain a peaceful, united Ireland (which we most definitely could) then the entire political landscape in this country would have to change and adapt.

I firmly believe a united Ireland would be a total success. In order to prevent the norths unionist population from being totally alienated and feeling swamped, political structures would have to be developed to accomodate them. This would mean our country would have to be more open, democratic and accountable to its citizens politically. An example of this is the Eire Nua peace proposals put forward by the Republican movement in the early 70s, which promoted the idea of a federal completely secular Ireland, with political power decentralised and accountable to community level. In short, power to the people, all of them.

These proposals were considered both workable and fair by even the likes of Ian Paisley and the leadership of the UDA as far back as 1972, during the worst of the violence. Even hardline Minister John Taylor was prepared to travel South and discuss these issues with republican representatives.

One would think that these proposals, which both the extremes of unionism/loyalism as well as republicans could live with would be promoted by the Brits if they wanted to leave, but no. In fact they did their damndest to wreck any possible chance of a peace-deal at that time, particlarly one which might have involved them pulling out.

Therefore I believe that Britain simply does not want to see an alternative form of democracy and government on its doorstep, in an English speaking country, wwhich might set a bad example to its own citizens. Im not going to go into the ins and outs of that countrys "unwritten constitution", but I believe a succesful fully democratic United Ireland would be a threat to the British establishment and the power and privilege they enjoy in their own country. Theri subjects just might want some of the same.

Then theres also the fact that we are a samll country, they are a big one, so they can simply occupy us whether we like it or not. If we were Chinese theyd have been long gone. No such false concern existed for Hong Kongs welfare.

by James Flynn Sun Mar 20, 2005 17:07 james at hotmail dot com

Barry writes:
> Their reasons for staying are varied.
> There are various theories about them
> having nuclear capabilities in some of their
> military complexes here, which I suppose
> makes sense. Why not ?

There's absolutely no evidence at all for this claim, or any reason to believe that it's true.

> Others believe the threat of low intensity
> conflict here keeps their troops well trained
> and up to date with counter insurgency
> techniques

There are far cheaper, and less politically damaging ways to train troops in counter-insurgency techniques.

> This undoubtedly adds to their international > military prestige

By failing to defeat a relatively small insurgency over 30 years, the northern-ireland conflict has damaged British military prestige rather than enhanced it.

> Others reckon their sophisticated hilltop
> spyposts along the border are ideal for
> electronically monitoring much of the
> international commerce which takes
> place in financial centres in Dublin.

There was little financial commerce transacted in Dublin in the 70s and 80s when those hilltop posts were constructed and manned, and no predictions that Dublin would become a financial services center.

> Still more believe that Britain likes to keep
> a Guantanamo Bay type of place handy

If Britain did require such a "type of place", would they not choose a location less blighted by civil unrest?

> Why else was the post-Gulf war summit
> held in Hillsboro co Down ? Surely to be
> well away from the attention of the Great
> British public.

I hardly think it makes any difference to the British Public whether it was held in Co. Down, Scotland, Wales, or Essex.

Barry, I've enjoyed your posts - they show how, in the absence of any evidence at all, it's possible to construct wonderful conspiracy theories which, by blind co-incidence "apparently", back up your prejudices.

It's the insanity of physical force nationalism that is now the greatest obstacle to a United Ireland.

Regards,
James

by Barry Sun Mar 20, 2005 17:41

And clearly deliberately so.

Ive clearly pointed out that these are theories which a number of other people have advanced (mostly from within SF over the years). My own belief as to why Britain continues in its occupation concerns primarily the British (unwritten) constitution. And as Ive clearly pointed this out, I can only assume your being sarcastic to myself as a republican, because you havent dealt with the main point of my argument at all.

To deal with your points, the hill top spyposts which dot the border with North Louth were obviously constructed in the mid 80s (1986 to be exact)to combat republican attacks on the British military. Ive merely pointed out that since then the British may well have developed another purpose for them. And this seems highly plausible. You havent denied they may be used for this purpose.

As for the post war summit in Hillsboro, given that over a million British had protested against the war, Bush and Blair holding such a summit in Britain would have attracted widespread street protests. You have not put forward any reason yourself as to why they should hold the summit in the north and your assumption that agreat many people in Britain wouldnt have cared is ludicrous to be honest.

If you honestly believe that Hillsboro is "blighted by civil unrest " your crackers, no offence.

As for "having failed to defeat insurgency here in 30 years", well the insurgents have done away with most of their arms, many of them have accepted British rule and save for a few hold outs here and there the Brits arent too worried.

As for your claim that militant republicans are the biggest obstacle to a united Ireland, catch a grip. The British occupation, and those who collaborate with it are.l
No one else. Not only do you not back this point up, I dont believe you are actually aware how ridiculous that sounds.
Do you actually have an argument of your own or just sarcastic .....comments ?

by Barry Sun Mar 20, 2005 17:52

I havent bothered even dealing with half of what you said.
you havent demolished or disproved a single point I made and my post doesnt need repeating or expanding.

Furthermore your belief that republicans are to blame for the British occupation is utterly daft and not worthy of debate, especially as you havent qualified it or backed it up.

Goodbye James. At least Devil Dog can be slighty humorous at times.

by JamesFlynn Mon Mar 21, 2005 15:03

Hi Barry,

( I haven't gone away, you know . . . ;-)

You accuse me of being "crackers" (no offense taken, by the way).

However, you're the one suggesting that:

* The British are hiding nuclear weapons in Northern Ireland

* They want to stay in the six counties as it's good "training"

* They're spying on the IFSC via hill-top installations in South Armagh

* The northern ireland conflict has enhanced their "military prestige"

* They're considering using Northern Ireland as a massive Prison Camp

* various other interesting theories . . .

Now, indeed, these things may, just *may* be true. But the moon also may, just *may*, be made of cheese.

I'm simply suggesting, that in the absence of any evidence, a reasonably independent observer without political prejudice, would - on the balance - find that those are the claims that are "crackers".

The Irish people, north and south, voted on the 21st of May 1998 - You, and the other members of the 32CSM - don't accept their democratic decision. Luckily, the 32CSM are a small, tiny minority of bitter crack-pots and dead-enders.

And I only examined one section from your many posts because, well, life is short.

Kind Regards,
James

by barry Mon Mar 21, 2005 20:09

Again your being deliberately selective. As Ive pointed out TWICE now, the theories you are critical of are NOT mine, but ones which have been advanced by various others over the years, including Sinn Fein, Ed Moloney and CND. Not by the 32CSM , or myself.

Although this is a side issue, Britain has beeen a nuclear power for decades. Are you seriously suggesting they wouldnt site their weapons in military installations here ? Can you advance any reason why they wouldnt ? In the 1980s CND marched and protested outside bases in SArmagh (forkhill) and RAF Ballykinlar. They were crackpots obviously.

Similarly, Ive never claimed Britain intends building a huge prison camp here. Ive stated its handy for them to have a dirty , militarised wee corner of their kingdom were no-one in the UK really cares about what happens there.

Ive clearly stated that my OWN belief is that the British refuse to cease their occupation of this island firstly because we are simply smaller and easy to push around, and secondly because of their own unwritten constitution - they dont want an alternative form of democracy on their doorstep.

Its pretty simple, Imperialists are a shower of bastards who do these things because they can. With virtual control of the security services in the 26 counties, as well as a succession of unashamed collaborators in power there wholl actively help them maintain their occupation, its not exactly a hard thing to occupy Ireland.

Especially when theres no shortage of people like yourself who will never speak out against occupation, but are guaranteed to run down those who oppose it, even to the ridiclous point of blaming the occupied as opposed to the occupier.


You still havent advnced any explanation of your own, except for blaming republicans, which is utter nonsense, clearly. And as such you cant even back it up with any evidence.

Do you actually have a point that you can advance?

by James Flynn Tue Mar 22, 2005 15:54

I think, Barry, that the point I'd like to advance is:

* The position you hold is a jumble of implausible conspiracies, constructed to justify your extremist position.

Here are some of the other things that you have suggested from just *one* posting in this thread (November 16th):

* The Gardai supported the Omagh bombings by providing the car, and ensuring that it travelled to Omagh unhindered.
* They facilitated the escape of one of the bombers, Paddy Dixon.
* The RUC knew in advance through Kieran Keely that dissident republicans planned to bomb and murder in Omagh, and decided to let it happen.
* A British ordered their Agent to construct the bomb.
* The FBI/MI6 were involved in scouting the Omagh bombing location through an agent.
* The British Army were ordered to remain in their base, as they had advance knowledge of the Omagh bomb.
* The RUC intentionally directed civilians towards the location of the bomb to maximise the death toll.
* You would like former RUC head Ronnie Flanagan to commit suicide.

Go on - read your post again - you really do propose the above.

To believe what you suggest, one would have to believe in the existance of a multi-national conspiracy involving thousands of members of the Irish, British and US police forces, their armies and judiciaries, all facilitated and co-ordinated by the three governments.

I suppose it's a possible reality - perhaps the entire thing is masterminded by the Masons? Or even worse - the International Girl Guide movement?

Another possibility - and one I'd suggest is far more plausible -is that a small group of dissident republican nut-jobs couldn't gain support democratically for their extreme views, and so they constructed a bomb, drove it to Omagh, and murdered 29 people.

Oh! But hang on - if you believed that, then it would mean that the organisation you support slaughters innocent civilians. wouldn't it?

Kind Regards,
James

by Barry Tue Mar 22, 2005 17:34

The points you have just derisively scoffed at are most definitely NOT "implausible conspiracies" I have constructed, far from it.

They are a matter of public record, proven fact, and have been central to the Ombudswoman Nuala OLoans report into the bombing, as well as having been identified as evidence in court proceedings.

They have also been highlighted by reputable journalists such as Chris Coffey from the Sunday Buisiness Post among others.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the car used in the bombing was supplied by An Garda Siochana through their agent Dixon. This has been publicly attested to by the branchman who ran Dixon as an agent , Det Sgt John White. White has also made public the fact that his immediate branch superior authorised that the car be allowed proceed unhindered. Det White claims his superior officer actually used the words " we'll let this one through" when Dixon pushed to have the car intercepted. White also claims that his superior was trained by, and worked closely with, British military intelligence.

Are you suggesting Im in cahoots with Garda White in making this up ???

His MI5 trained superior has now left the jurisdiction, whereabouts and current employment officially unknown.

Paddy Dixon, as was reported widely in the media, has indeed fled the country despite supposedly being wanted for questioning.
There is no doubt whatsoever he was apprehended and briefly detained by British authorities in possession of a large sum of cash. Despite the British supposedly wanting him for questioning about a mass murder, he was inexplicably set free from their custody and promptly disappeared. This has been widely reported and even raised in the House of commons. It certainly wasnt made up by me

The FACT that FBI/MI5/Garda agent Dave Rupert not only suggested to CIRA members that Omagh should be bombed, but even scouted the town for the bombing has been proven by disclosure of his OWN F***ING Emails to his MI5 handlers, which were disclosed at the trial of Michael McKevitt.
There is no doubt about this whatsoever.
Rupert was not only up to his neck in it, but was a major instigator in the place being bombed in the first place !!! Ruperts e-mails , from before the bombing, show that he was the person who identified Omagh as a bombing target, as well as scouting the town.

This is by his own admission !!! Not made up by me in the slightest. Are you going to suggest Ive successfully hacked his computer and planted those e-mails ???

There is also NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that the British Army WERE confined to base on the day of the bombing. This has been admitted to by them, and clearly identified in the OLoan report, not made up by me whatsoever.

I DO NOT "PROPOSE" THESE POINTS, they have been fully established.

Furthermore the British did not merely have the word of their agent Keeley, although this was identified by OLoans investigation as well.. It has now transpired that as well as Keeleys warning of an attack, RUC officers in Omagh received an anonymous call on August 4th, warning of an attack on the 15th. The call lasted for 10 mins, and urged the officers to do everything they could to prevent an impending attack in Omagh on the 15th.
It now turns out that this anonymous call was actually made by an RUC SPECIAL BRANCH detective !!!! He has since approached the OLoan team and made a statement.

The actual transcripts of a statement made by this officer are there for the world to see at Cryptome.org

The RUC have themselves admitted sending people directly towards the bomb and without a doubt Omagh RUCs log book, which contained the bombs location, has disappeared immediately afterwards.

Not one bit of this has been made up by myself. In fact your scoffing at these widely reported facts shows your own ignorance of this case.

While you may believe these events to be implausible, its certainly not as implausible as Bertie Aherns explanation, when he claimed that neither MI5 nor the FBI operated within the 26 counties. An utter and blatant lie to the people of this country.

Nor are they as implausible as the belief that an operation which was instigated and assisted by state agents, as well as being warned of weeks in advance, could just slip through their fingers. Rubbish.

Utter rubbish but thats the line theyre spinning despite the emerging evidence to the contrary.

It seems to me Jim that you simply refuse to believe state forces are capable of commiting mass murder for their own ends. That makes you a gullible fool, and no doubt the families of the Dublin Monaghan victims as well as those murdered by mi5 imported weapons and state death squads would tell you the same.

by JamesFlynn Tue Mar 22, 2005 19:02

I'm convinced Barry, from the amount of free time you have available to post on this website, that you are:

A. Retired
B. In Jail
C. 15 years old
D. all of the above!

I don't think you've done anything in your last post except repeat a jumble of conspiracies.

Had the British and Irish security forces infiltrated dissident republican groups at the time of the Omagh bomb? Certainly.

Was there a vast conspiracy by Irish, American and British governments to discredit dissident republicans by murdering 29 people in Omagh? Personally, I find that hard to believe.

Of course, *you* believe it, apparently.

I imagine that you view yourself as a brave, lonely voice of sanity in a society that has lost its path. You must find it difficult to see how, when the solution is so clear to you, the rest of us on this Island just can't see it.

But did you ever consider, Barry, that perhaps you're just an extremist?

And that it's this extremism that makes you construct elaborate fantasies, when other possibilities are far more likely and plausible.

I don't know whether you sincerely believe that thousands of individuals around the world conspired to discredit the dissident republican movement with the Omagh Bomb. If you do, it strikes me as megalomania.

More likely, perhaps, is that you know that the Omagh bomb was planted by a small group of extremists like yourself, who couldn't achieve their aims by democratic means, and so choose the path of murder.

Perhaps you know it, and you choose to spread conspiracy theories, so that the gullible and weak of mind are deflected from the fact that your movement slaughtered 29 people in Omagh.

Regards,
James

by Barry Tue Mar 22, 2005 19:21

But I am exasperated at your blind and casual dismissal of proven facts which have been in the public domain for years and are very easily checked out.

Jesus Christ, Rupert even admitted video taping the site of the bombing in Omagh, and taking it to the CIRA before the attack !!!!

Throughout this period Rupert was regularly in the company of his FBI handler Ed Buckley who was operating here ILLEGALLY. That has been admitted in Dublins special criminal court as well. Buckley himself has been named as an MI5 agent by an American named Fogarty, who claims he was approached by an FBI agent in America years ago and warned by him that Buckley and a number of others were working for MI5 with a brief to set up members of the Irish American community during the early 90s.

As for your belief that this cover up would involve 1000s on both sides of the border, that is clearly untrue and shows an utter lack of understanding. It only takes a few agents and a culture of secrecy to create carnage, as we have seen all too often in the past.



Id point out to you that the very people whove come forward and highlighted the cover up, as well as dismissing the official version of events as lies are in fact Special Branch officers from both sides of the border, a British intelligence agent and the PSNI ombudswoman, who highlighted no less than 270 glaring ommissions in the states version of the events at Omagh.

That is not a concoction of events by me in the slightest.

And there will be more revelations in the near future have no doubt about that. Its worth reminding you again that the man "convicted" of involvement in the bombing was himself stitched up by branchmen who lied under oath.

The only people telling lies to the public about this entire sordid episode are in fact the state agencies, North and South. Flanagan has been proven to be a bare faced liar, as have others.Their account of what happened has now been proven to be untrue on numerous occasions, most importantly their version of events is being challenged by those who worked for them, in and out of uniform.

And that has not been concocted by me,.

by JamesFlynn Wed Mar 23, 2005 14:49

Barry,

The difference between your analysis and the analysis of a reasonable person is that your political prejudice leads you to absurd conclusions.

Let's just examine one paragraph, from the many absurd and illogical things that you've said on this thread:

"[The Police] directed civilians directly towards the bomb instead of away from it.
People making their way to safety were turned back and sent to their deaths.
The security cordon tape was placed exactly beside the bomb-car. No RUC
officers were injured in the following blast."

Now, you have concluded that there was a conspiracy, requiring the participation of all the Police Officers who were at Omagh that day before the explosion, to intentionally direct civilians towards their slaughter.

A more reasonable analysis - and a far more likely reality - is that the Police there on the day didn't know which car contained the bomb.

For you to conclude the former, makes it obvious to any independent reader, that your analysis is informed by such hatred and prejudice, that it can't be trusted or believed.

Consider the following, Barry:
* The families of the 29 people slaughtered that day in Omagh, who obviously want justice for their loved ones, believe it was dissident republicans.
* Every serious commentator on northern ireland politics believes Omagh was bombed by dissident republicans.
* Even dissident republicans believe Omagh was bombed by dissident republicans!

To conclude otherwise requires for you to believe in a multinational conspiracy involving dozens of state agencies, and the participation of thousands of individuals to fund, execute and cover-up the bombing. The CIA can't even fly prisioners to Cuba without the good people of Indymedia tracking them! How likely is it, do you think, that there wouldn't be at least one conclusive slip made by one of the participants in your grand Omagh conspriacy?

I guess in your mind, the families of the people killed that day, the governments of Ireland, the UK, the USA, their security forces, journalists, politicians and commentators north and south of the border - they're all wrong, eh? Only you have the intelligence, resources and ability to see the truth where no-one else can see it.

For you to conclude that means - and I say this sincerely, and with great pity - that your hatred and bitterness provide for you a warped reality.

One request - just don't you and your comrades on the 32CSM slaughter any more of us for your warped goals.

Slan,
James

by barry Fri Mar 25, 2005 06:35

Im not exactly sure what your definition of a "reasonable person" is.

Im beginning to assume it is the same type of reasonable person who still turns a blind eye to the slaughter of Dublin Monagahan, and numerous other acts of deliberate carnage by state agencies over the last 3 decades. Ill assume its in the belief that the state forces are essentially good sorts, who would never resort to mass murder in persuit of their twisted goals.

Did the slaughter of those acts involve the active participation of 1000s of personnel ?
Bloody sure it didnt, as well you know, and yet the cover up by both British and Irish administrations, north and south has lasted 30 years.

Remember Dublin Monahan ALONE involved 4 separate car bombs, Omagh only one.

The "disappearance" of garda files from their dublin archives last year, as well as the point blank refusal of the British to co-operate in any enquiry, as well as the free states slavish acceptance of this, shows that no such conspiracy needs to involve 1000s. It only needs a few agents and an establishment wholl cover up for them. Not to mention a media wholl ask no questions.

What is your opinion on this James, another of my extremist conspiracy theories, or maybe just a few bad apples ?

A few bad apples who are still covering up a sordid mass murder 30 years on.

Regarding your derisive insults towards myself, you have deliberately, and repeatedly, misrepresented the points Ive made.

Absolutely f***ing nowhere have I stated that republicans didnt bring the bomb into Omagh, and you are well aware I havent.

Your deliberate attempts to misrepresent my points, point to your own inability to explain away the events which occured in favour of the state forces you support, despite the recorded evidence to the contrary.

What I have outlined is the illegal use of the agent David Rupert as an AGENT - PROVOCATUER by British inteligence.

Im assuming you know what an agent-provocateur is, or are you claiming this term is another fantastical invention by myself, part of my never ending quest to satisfy my own irrational, inbred hatred of all things remotely British.?

Conor Cruise OBrien himself would be proud of such a grandiose conclusion as yours. It would be laughable if it were not so sad.

Obviously, for questioning the official version of events, and pointing out what actually happened, backed up by proof and sources ( a sure sign of a killer) Im a demented madman and a danger to society.

By Ruperts own admission, as disclosed from his e-mail traffick with British intelligence (and recorded as evidence in the special criminal court) Rupert approached the CIRA with the plan to bomb Omagh.

Rupert carried out scouting missions and dummy runs on the town.

Rupert even video taped the town centre of Omagh as part of his successful attempts to have republicans bomb the town.

In order to gain credibility among those republicans he was encouraging to bomb the town, he ILLEGALLY sourced and imported weapons and explosives into the 26 cos. He did this as an MI5 agent , illegally, and without the knowledge of the Irish state.

As the owner of a freight company within the US, a smuggler with contacts with arms dealers, he was ideally placed to build such a cover, as well as make substantial financial donations.

These are the actions of an agent provocatuer, someone who is intentionally put there to deliberately create a series of actions, not simply to report back on them.

Ruperts e-mails also record that within hours of the Omagh explosion he was spiirited out of the country by MI5.


Furthermore your scoffing and incredulity of the actions of RUC officers on the day of the explosion highlights your own utter and total ignorance. That is EXACTLY what did happen. They have admitted to it, even at the inquest. Survivors of the explosion have stated that they wanted to leave the area but could not as every exit was sealed off.

RUC officers on that day were simply directed by their superiors. No-one seriously suggests that the ordinary RUC officers deliberately sent people to their doom. However the instructions as to how the RUC should act on the day were contained in their stations log book, as well as the details of 3 seperate bomb warnings which were phoned in identifying were the bomb was.

When asked in court about the bomb warnings, and why they cordoned off the specific area, the RUC officers exercised their right to silence and hid behind solicitors. It also later transpired their log book containing the warnings went "missing". This was a key finding of the OLoan report.

Did I steal it James ? Do you have any opinion on what happened to it ?

Your belief that the cops couldnt have known which car contained the bomb doesnt stand up to scrutiny, when it has been revealed by Detective White that his special Branch unit actually supplied the f***ing bomb car !!!

Whites immediate superior WHO SENT THE BOMB CAR was trained by and worked on a daily basis with the same MI5 which controlled David Rupert who instigated and planned the bombing in the first place !!!

We now also know that a serving RUC branchman phoned the cops in Omagh on Aug 4 telling them there was to be an attack on the 15th. Instead of acting to prevent this attack, which was remeber at MI5s' own instigation, with a car supplied by southern special branch, WITH A BOMB BUILT BY ANOTHER AGENT, the state confined the entire British Army to base in Omagh. They set up NO checkpoints, and when it arrived they walked the population of Omagh right on top of it.

Not a single cop was scratched despite the apparently wanton, indiscriminate nature of the slaughter. A slaughter that the powers that be tell us the "dissidents" intended. Right on the very doorstep of 32csm chairman Francie Mackey.

Right James, dead on.

As for your laughable point about "serious political commentators" in Ireland, are these the same commentators who studiously ignored British slaughter in Ireland for 30 years, including Dublin Monaghan ?

They kept their jobs tthat way. Remeber that Joe Tiernain, who worked for both RTE, and then yorkshire television never worked in this country again after he researched Dublin Monaghan.

Before you start lecturing about slaughtering people for twisted ends, remeber what the British did to 1000s of innocent civilians here for their ends. Their fingerprints are all over Omagh. Anyone who questioned what they were up to over the last 30 years was branded an extremist and an apologist for murder. Your after doing the exact same thing with myself in this case.

Unsurprising, and that has always been the case in this country, every step of the way.