Criticising the oppressed

by pat c Mon Sep 20, 2004 19:03

Thanks for posting up this piece and the link. The SWPs relationship with Islamic fundamentalists is outrageous.

In Iran in August, 16 year old Atefeh Rajabi was hanged in public. Her crime? "Acts incompatible with chastity". This was not just the work of a local Mullah, her death sentence was confirmed by the Supreme Court. Atefeh's plea that she was the victim of an older man's advances was ignored.

The "judge" who originally passed sentence on Atefeh attended her hanging to put the noose about her neck. Why? Because in court she had removed her hijab and had spoken back to him.

This brave young woman sealed her fate by casting off the hijab as a symbol of oppression. The very symbol that the SWP are happy to uphold.

by Dub SWP - SWP Mon Sep 20, 2004 21:59

Yes indeed. That makes sense as does this comment.; The sp and various libertarians who have been banging this drum are equally responsible for the deaths of muslims by the far righ in France and other parts of Europe.Their refusal to defend muslims and instead side with racists Islamophobia is directly linked to the beating to death of a muslim youth in France and is part of the wave of histeria directed at muslims.
Yes I know that is just bullshit. But its no different from the last posting. By the way I see that RESPECT came second in a Millwall by election., beating Labour into third. Last time I checked Millwall was overwhelmingly white and working class.
Something is happening here but you dont know what it is do you Pat c?

by hs - sp Mon Sep 20, 2004 23:53

Honestly I don't think peter tatchell was attacking just the swp, but the entire left. And I do think he has a point in his article, I think there are also some unmentionables in leftieland as well, for example where is the leftist outcry when young men get there legs smashed apart by self appointed cops! If the real ones did anything about it we'd be screaming bloody murder (as we should).
And I think questions do need to be asked about support for "my enemies enemy", the communist party of iran paid for that mistake, dearly. If the catholic politicians come out with homophobic or anti woman policies we jump down their throats (as we should), but not the imans, supporting islamic homosexuals is not rascist, far from it.

by Dub swp - swp Tue Sep 21, 2004 00:31 DUBLIN

"defending islamic homosexuals is not racist"
Where in the name of Allah do you get the idea that ANYONE even thinks that. Cop on to yourself.Of course we defend them of course we condemn homophobia, to suggest otherwise is nonsense.
But we dont make that defence a PRECONDITION for defending muslims from attacks from the ruling classes or as a part of the ongoing war in the middle east, nor do we make defnce of gays or woman a precondition for uniting with muslims against this war.

by hs - sp Tue Sep 21, 2004 00:33

maybe you should actually read the article.

by ex swp supporter - none Tue Sep 21, 2004 00:44

"nor do we make defnce of gays or woman a precondition for uniting with muslims"

Why i'm ex swp. Tony Cliff is doing somesaults in his grave.

by Michael Hennigan - Finfacts.com Tue Sep 21, 2004 08:43

I admire Peter Tatchell. His position on highlighting oppression by the oppressed is consistent but unfortunately all too rare. Many seem to feel that their support for a cause is diluted by acknowledging imperfections.

In the past, some people of the left, often called 'intellectuals' here in the West, excused the monstrosities of Stalin, a man as depraved as Hitler.

In both Africa and the Middle East official homophobia is the reality not the exception. Last year, Egypt held a mass trial of gays and as Peter pointed out, the death penalty is the punishment for people who are gay in many Islamic countries.

Black Africans are probably the target of more bigotry than any other group on the planet but many African leaders have put their homphobia on the public record. Last year when the President of Uganda was asked about AIDS prevention and the gay community in his country, he shot back: 'There are no homosexuals in Uganda.'

Intolerence is always intolerence and society could do with more Peter Tatchells.

by pat c Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:26

Nothing illogical about my comment. It states the facts. Women are being killed for not wearing the hijab. Fact. The SWP support the Islamic fundamentalists who demand that women wear the hijab. Fact.

The SWP are in bed with islamic fundamentalists who believe that women who have sex outside marriage should be killed and that gays should be killed. Are you trying to relieve your guilty conscience by abusing me?

It would be so easy to give statistics about how many women and gays die at the hands of islamic fundamentalists. But why just use numbers?

Atefeh Rajabi was a real person who died because she stood up to an islamic fascist and threw off her hijab.

Remember Atefeh. Dont let the SWP forget her. Whenever the SWP support the hijab, raise the name of Atefeh.

by pat c Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:10

I'm not out on an SWP bashing exercise here. Do a search and you will see that I have defended the SWP on indy more times than I have criticised them. While I have defended the SP in respect of attacks on them regarding NIPSA, the FBU and CPSU, I have also clashed with them on many occasions on policies ranging from TUs , 6 counties and IAWM.

I have even clashed with some SPers on the LGBT question, but that was more a debate on whether the LP would scapegoat gays during a recession and that gays should only support revolutionaries regardless of work done on the ground. I hasten to add that not all SP members held this view, I certainly dont think hs did.

Whats at issue here is a fundamental crossing of the line by the SWP. You have linked up with Islamic clerics defending practices which are oppressive towards women. Your support for Womens and LGBT rights have been given a back seat.

Of course Palestinians deserve full support against the IDF attacks and deserve their own homeland (no point in going on about no nations, no borders, at this stage just facing the reality of whats possible). But they do not deserve uncritical support, all socialists should criticise the anti gay actions of the Palestinian Authority.

I would not support any US attacks on Iran but I do support the right of progressives there to overthrow the Theocracy by armed means. Surely all socialists want to see the Mullahs regime smashed?

In 1904, in Iran, progressives rose up and hung the main Ayetullah in a Square in the centre of Iran. I wish such a thing would happen again 100 years afterward.

No gods! No masters!

by pat c Thu Dec 23, 2004 14:37

(How about the SWP supporting these young women? pat c)

Human rights groups urge Britons to help save abused women from execution by hanging and stoning

David Smith
Sunday December 19, 2004
The Observer

Two women convicted of crimes against morality in Iran are facing imminent execution, one by being buried up to her chest and stoned, Amnesty International said last night.

One of the women, a 19-year-old with a mental age of eight who was forced into prostitutionby her mother, is to be flogged and executed. An official said yesterday he was waiting for orders on whether to stone or hang her. The other woman was convicted of adultery and is due to be stoned to death this month in accordance with Iran's severe penal code.

Amnesty issued an urgent warning that time was running out for both women and urged the international community to tackle Iran over its executionsof women and child offenders. In August another mentally ill girl, 16-year-old Atefeh Rajabi, was hanged in a street for having sex before marriage.

The 19-year-old, known as 'Leyla M', was aprostitute by the age of eight and was raped repeatedly, according to a Tehran newspaper report. She gave birth when aged nine and was sentenced to 100 lashes for prostitution at about the same time. When she was 12 her family sold her to an Afghan to be his 'temporary wife', while her mother became her new pimp, 'selling her body without her consent', the report said.

At 14 she became pregnant again, receiving a further 100 lashes before giving birth to twins. When her temporary marriage ended, her family sold her again, to a 55-year-old man who was married with two children and did not object to Leyla's clients coming to his house.

Last month, Leyla, appearing at a court in the central Iranian city of Arak, was sentenced to death on charges of 'acts contrary to chastity' by controlling a brothel, having intercourse with blood relatives and giving birth to an illegitimate child. The sentence has now been passed to the supreme court for confirmation. She apparently 'confessed' and faces being flogged before being executed.

Iran has executed at least three child offenders in 2004 and 11 others are believed to have been sentenced to death, according to Amnesty. Under the penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be executed.

Interviewed by an Iranian journalist in her cell, Leyla was asked if she understood she was to be put to death. 'Yes, that's what they are saying,' she replied. 'But people in prison say this is a lie. They want to frighten you a bit.

'I haven't done anything. My mother told me to go to a man's house and I did. If she said don't, I wouldn't have. I was frightened. If I didn't listen to her, she would have harmed me. She beats me - my father, too.'

Asked when she was first forced to have sex, Leyla said: 'I was eight, the first time my mother took me to a man's house. It was a horrible night. I cried that night. Cried a lot. The day after she [my mother] came after me and took me home and bought chocolate and crisps for me.'

Leyla has been robbed of the consolation of spending time with her children. 'We used to play together before I went to prison. For some time they were with my mother and then they went to my father. I don't know where they are at the moment.'

She said of her father: 'He is a very bad-tempered man. He frightens me. But I liked him when he bought me goodies.'

Asked if her mother had visited her on death row, Leyla said: 'No, she hasn't. If you see my mother, tell her that she promised to bring me crisps and chocolate. Also tell her not to forget my red dress.'

Campaigners in Iran are compiling a petition against the execution, which they will present to the United Nations. Another group, the International Committee Against Stoning, is to meet officials of the European Union tomorrow in an attempt to build diplomatic pressure on Iran over the imminent execution of Hajieh Esmailvand, whose sentence for adultery was upheld by the supreme court and changed from death by hanging to death by stoning, before Tuesday. The man with whom Hajieh had the affair, who was 17 at the time, has been sentenced to death by hanging.

Mike Blakemore, of Amnesty International UK, said: 'Time is running out for Hajieh and Leyla, but it's still not too late. People in the UK can help stop these executions by writing to the Iranian authorities, letting them know that people around the world will not sit idly by and let this happen.

'But these horrific cases are just the tip of the iceberg. Every day women are subjected to terrifying violence, repression and abuse. Violence against women is a human rights atrocity and one we must tackle urgently.'

· For details of how to help stop the executions, visit: www.amnesty.org.uk/action

by Nick Thu Dec 23, 2004 15:03

There is growing issue staring us in the face here. Lets just take the example of homosexuality but it could apply to lots of other situations. In a tolerant society there is obviously a place for Islam. But if large numbers of Muslims have no tolerance for homosexuality then we we've hit a serious stumbling block for our society.