is this the death of moore street?

by maloney Thu Sep 16, 2004 14:55

The new immigrants definately have re-invigorated Moore Street.
The native Dublin Moore Street has been on the way out for a long time though. Many of the Dublin traders seem to be hanging on in expectation of a redevelopment handout from the Corpo (DCC).

by native Thu Sep 16, 2004 15:03

"Many of the Dublin traders seem to be hanging on in expectation of a redevelopment handout from the Corpo (DCC)."

it also provides a living wage .

i think your comment is a bit patroniseing in fairness

by jeff Thu Sep 16, 2004 20:54

However, here, you are allowed to, perhaps, chew some gum.

If you like cheap thrift stores, etc, you will have to either move to Africa or visit a museum.

Meanwhile, the traders may get some sort of social welfare provision. The government will not mind, because a lot of the traders are old and have smoked much of their lives so they will be passing from this mortal coil soon.

And we will all chew some gum.

by Jurys Doyle Hotel Group Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:38

Wondering why the eastern side of Moore Street is looking a bit rough around the edges? Its because the Doyle family, who own most of the larger buildings and spaces on that section, have left it go to shit. You can still see the family name up on the old bingo hall sign. We are just another large capitalist family indulging in a bit of property speculation. Hope you dont mind us letting the city fall down in order to make a quick euro...

by mr. angry Fri Sep 17, 2004 21:16

(Fuming) There ought to be a law against that sort of thing ....

Oh I beg your pardon, there probably is .... just that Dublin Corpo. are too bent to enforce it .......

by paulc Fri Sep 17, 2004 22:06

DUBLIN'S Moore Street is to get €4m facelift.

It will include a high roof to cover new stalls and new paving will be laid. Consultants are drawing up plans to give the traditional fruit, veg and fish markets a 21st century lifeline and Dublin City Council is footing the bill.

Bucholz McEvoy Architects, who designed the new Fingal County Council HQ in Swords, are currently drafting proposals to transform the Moore Street thoroughfare.

--
The whole thing is stalled because of arguements over the CPO of the carlton to extend the Ilac.
--
"Its ironic that the inner city was once a fashionable residential area where the rich lived and then it became fashionable to have a house in the country so the rows of georgian buildings were spliced up into tenements, and now the relativily rich are moving back in forcing the poorer people out through rent increases."

Some may look at Moore Str and look at the traders old and new and think, look how they've let the street go.... when it was the council and it propery owner chums who've continuely let down the people there, over and over again promise refurbishment, the traders are now resigned to the faith of the street, and the Asian markets and restaurants which were only able to afford to move in there becuase of the poor condition of the street are going to kicked out, and the whole street can be now bought cheapily knocked down and rebuilt and become a high rent extension of Henry Street, and with the building of the bland Jurys hotel on Parnell Str we can see who the aiming to service.

Gentrification links:
http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featlydersen_7.shtml
http://members.lycos.co.uk/gentrification/

As far as I know although some traders will be kept there, the Smithfiled area is going to be developed further http://www.dublincity.ie/planning/citymarkets/
http://www.archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?s=31df362b7919849d7f8708231bd275ca&postid=26223
as the wholesale fruit and veg traders move to a site off the motorway and and a square and markets area is developed around the Iveagh markets.

It interesting to watch how the city moves, and think alot of the traders will move to Capel street which is becoming Dublins china town...

by dunk Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:58

all things change and grow
with open and transperent dialogue between all users and interested persons it is hoped that things grow in a way that is part of a process that ends up with the result being that of the highest quality

the architects state
"Bucholz | McEvoy Architects see design as a process fueled by teamwork, informed by research and knowledge. Bucholz McEvoy Architect's work is closely aligned to the practice of engineering; working in an intensely collaborative environment, allowing projects to grow naturally out the discussion between client, architect, engineers, cost advisors and other team members."

we are contacting them to ask them to fill us in a bit on how things stand at present

from conversations i have had with people who have been trading in the area over the years it seems that they feel that indeed they will simply be forced out when the time came, it seems that time is coming?

we made 2 short film documentaries over the years, talking with people on the street and also documenting that point in time. maybe we might try to screen these on the street soon and with that have an open forum on "how things stand at present on moore street"

a DIT film crew also made a proper investigative documentary into the street, we are trying to source that film, if anyone can contact them that would be appreciated

http://www.bmcea.com/home.html is the Bucholz | McEvoy website, another example of their work is the redesign of wolfe tone park

archeire is irelands architectural website, it contains quite a large communication space, on a search for all discussions that have happened concerning moore st it gave a poor amount, perhaps i missed it but i searched a bit to no avail.

http://www.archiseek.com/search/search.php?template_demo=&site=&path=&result_page=search.php&query_string=moore+st
is a list of moore st related news

perhaps someone could post a forum, similar to this, on www.archeire.com. to encourage irelands ark community to discuss their views on the issue. i would except that i have been banned for 3 years. (for me, architecture is and should always be more than making little boxs that look nice, its that and a whole lot more- i have worked as an architect and am doing my thesis in bolton st, DIT, presently)

http://easa.antville.org/stories/887874/
is another forum that might be of interest to people on this issue, its about art, activism, architecture, urbanism, play, a better world
its from the EASA website, europes architectural youth

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66327#comment85738
is more on FUSPEY stuff

so thats about it
this ongoing news will be brought to the attention of people on moore st in the hope that they will tell us directly how things stand

and to finish off here is a link to the last time that "communication action" appeared on moore street
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64799&search_text=facts%20vs%20facts#comment72851

the story of moore street, dublin, ireland unfolds that little bit more

by dunk Mon Sep 20, 2004 13:21

architects contacted
and found earlier link from indymedia with a previous moore st. wander, including photos we took
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62183#comment53386

by dunk Tue Sep 21, 2004 15:04

The São Paulo Bienal is the Southern Hemisphere's largest visual arts exhibition and this year runs from 25th September until 19th December. The artists representing Ireland at the 2004 event are Stephen Loughman, Denis McNulty and 'desperate optimists' (Christine Molloy and Joe Lawlor).
'desperate optimists' will be showing their five-minute film, Civic Life: Moore Street in selected venues and online

Desperate Optimists filmed Civic Life, a 35mm single-take steady-cam tracking shot on Dublin's Moore Street overnight on July 13th/14th, with actors from the African theatre group, Arambe. The film will be screened in Sao Paulo cinemas before the main features throughout the Biennale.

rel links
'desperate optimists' website
http://www.desperateoptimists.com/pages/index.shtml
discussed elsewhere
http://www.sculptors-society.ie/news.html
http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6237

still looking for DIT documentary

by dunk Sat Apr 30, 2005 00:13 fuspey at yahoo dot co dot uk

although some parts of moore street are getting knocked for "development", other parts are growing out, taking over unused space and making new routes through from moore street to moore lane
the mosque has been open for some time

a new mosque for moore street

new openings into moore lane

chinese lanterns on moore lane

the other entrance to mosque is from medina food shop

by dunk Thu May 12, 2005 10:52

(part email to various groups, maybe more are interested)

hi, got no respnse to earlier post "greening city, connecting communities update:"
http://easa.antville.org/stories/960542/#1117154

which was response to DGN idea:

the ilac public library has a room that can be freely used for films, events....
the main space of library can also be used for exhibition space, ive asked them about use of this in past and we could use it, myself and indymedia redjade talked much about this previous
food not bombs get most of their food from moore st, and camden st traders

moore st is the epitome of modern multi cultural ireland, dead buildings have already been reclaimed by new people moving in; basement chinese restaurants and a new mosque on moore lane (see link on last post)

there was an "art action" event/talk last night in seoidins space- went very well, this issue was talked about in depth...more later on that

what a few of us are working on is "greening cities, connecting communities" starting with community garden, finding out where there are other ones aswell as "underthreat" communities- moore st traders, sheriff st, weaver and chamber court, devany gdns
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65045&search_text=red%20archive#comment105233 and new imc-thread
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69752
we are looking at setting up wanders to visit each others communities (com of ideas meets physical communities)
see- http://www.dublin.ie/getFile.asp?FC_ID=17&docID=29
from
http://www.dublin.ie/index.asp?locID=129&docID=-1

basic city council slant= keeping and highlighting dublins "native" communities, all different, all part of dublin- makes good city
reality- communities are getting pushed out as big cash arrives for development, ie sheriff st @ docklands- now 14million€ an acre,

meeting these communities, plugging into their "scenes"- rez meetings, maybe possible future gatherings and workshops- ie, id love to see indymedia workshops in these communities, but have had little support on idea, when free will do one in sheriff st, would like your support

what else can we do
last year, we did the fillawelly walk, and we will do it again this summer, i called into "shining emereld" irelands chinese newspaper which have their base over "talk is cheap" on moore st, theres also an african paper somewhere

also
the walls of moore st are already mass communication spaces, i suggest we further add to this, as done previous

http://easa.antville.org/stories/1014584/

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64799&search_text=facts%20vs%20facts

a few of us would like to organise the city bay wander again, organise events @ moore st libtrary, do communication actions @ moore st, art action, writing articles for local ethnic papers and metro ireland

perhaps a little moore st festival is in order? mabe an imc-audio feature going out on nearfm might bring more assistance

theres lots of little backstreet garages we might be able to use/ rent

maybe a dublin social forum is needed? not sure how things are on this front at present

if your interested in this stuff, please respond and make happen

lastly you can do something, right now, friend siobhan is doing an art/ community action, work in weaver/ chamber court (2minutes from nik of myra centre) on sat @ 3pm and she would like as much support as possible, it will involve calling into every flat in area, holding hands, video, dialogue, capturing point in time, more on that later from her

ill be meeting dick gleeson, dublin city head planner on mon 23rd to discuss greenway, i could bring up other issues also possibly, if appropriate

sorry for over the place nature, (asalways) rushing
dunk

moore street- the heart of modern ireland

by dunk Thu May 12, 2005 10:54

.

the walls of moore st- 1 giant communication space

by corpo Thu May 12, 2005 10:55

I think the market atmosphere should be maintained. However, most of the traders left years ago. I think some have been drawn back by the prospect of being bought-out.

by slower gardener Thu May 12, 2005 20:38

Make your garden for now. Do a good job of it and keep it simple. Do not go haring around telling people you have a million ideas to change the world in a week and suggesting so many things that you become incomprehensible or overwhelming to others or you take over situations you find yourself in. Make your garden for now. If you feel like being occupied dig your garden. Hyperactivity will get you nowhere and will alienate those around you. Post one idea at a time here in ways that may convince and explain to others what you're talking about - not big millions and millions of flashes of thoughts posts that only those in the culture can understand. If you feel like expressing some ideas - channel the ideas of others - don't just keep shoving your 'own' ideas under every nose. Make your garden for now and don't believe newspapers that tell you it already exists.

by Al Thu May 12, 2005 23:36

Seems to me not too many posters actually spend any real time on Morre Street or Moore Lane.
I like Moore Street as far as traders go but the road itself has gone too hell. drug dealing, illegal cigarette selling, drunks. thats what moore Street is about now.
Moore Lane has no traders, whats the problem with remodeling that?
last thought, lot of pics that are not from Moore Street. I might have missed the point for that, can someone explain? Juries looks a lot nicer in fact.

by dunk Fri May 13, 2005 03:53

pics are of moore lane, where buildings join through from moore st, ie the mosque. personally i love the squiggly roots you have to take to get up to a restaurant or through a storage area down steps to indoor bar b q- magic

by Jane - Nua Media Wed Aug 03, 2005 18:27 mail at nuamedia dot com

We are researching the idea of a programme on Ireland's markets.

Are there any traders online or does anybody know any longstanding Moore St. traders who could provide some first hand information on what's happening and how it's affecting them?

by Al Wed Aug 03, 2005 22:26

I doubt any traders are on this site but from speaking with them I can tell you this:

A, the license was supposed to go upto 1000 euro per annum. The traders are unsure where this suggestion is at the moment but it seems pretty dead in the water.

B, The council asked them to move to an alternative site for 1 year and they would get their sites back after the re-modeling. The stall owners simple dont believe this and reckon that they wont get back in at all if they move.

C, the shops are 99% rented and believe it or not, most are on a day to day basis without long term leases. This can be seen from how often they swap around with each other.

D, 1 of the houses is protected because of historical significence so they cant knock it down just remodel it.

Now the bad news.....

A, drugs are rampant and they are being freely sold inside some of the premises. There seems to be a never ending conveyor belt of drugs associated with Moore Street as no matter how many dealers we arrest theres a dozen replacing them straight away. The state of the buildings isnt helping.

B, very, very few stall holders are shop owners will assist the Gardai. They are by nature mistrustful of anyone outside their own group. This is changing slowly but surely.

C, The majority of the buildings are damn near to falling down and would be nowhere near good enough to pass health and safety concerns. There is the odd exception.

My opinion.....

The stall holders are big enough to fight this battle on their own, they are very independent people with a close knit trust of each other. I personally think the whole street does need drastic work but I also think there needs to be guarantees to the businesses that they will get back in once its done. Its only a matter of time before something serious happens to someone there as a result of the state of the buildings.

by Indymedian Wed Aug 03, 2005 23:18

"A, drugs are rampant and they are being freely sold inside some of the premises. "

Do you really think that it's appropriate to be carrying out advertising for drug dealers on indymedia?

by soundmigration Thu Aug 04, 2005 02:09

"B, very, very few stall holders are shop owners will assist the Gardai. They are by nature mistrustful of anyone outside their own group. This is changing slowly but surely."


jeepers creepers man, you must be a part time sociologist as well as. what exactly do you mean by the turn of phrase "by there very nature mistrustful of anyone outside their group". sounds like David Attenborough talking about penguins!! t

id say its more likely the reality is that very very few stall holders (or many many folks across the country) trust the gardai because the organisation by is very nature( read orchastrated cover ups, violent nighttime deportations, set ups, harrassmant of all shades of activists) is untrustworthy and seem to have a dislike to anyone outside thier own group..:)

by Al Fri Aug 05, 2005 02:23

I offer some insight as a person that actually spends time on Moore Street dealing with and speaking with those that ply their trades there. You choose to attack my points rather than discuss them.

A, Anyone interested in buying drugs hardly needs to read my post to know where to go now do they? Or are the readers of Indymedia desperataly searching for the next hit?

And as for what i meant by their own group, I meant inner city working classes that have, over years, built a close knit community of stall owners. The Chinese or African nationals stick together as any nationality tend to do when in a foreign countries.

by eeeekkkkk Fri Aug 05, 2005 02:25

it's like blade runner down there al and you are most definitely the replicant on the bloc

by Al Fri Aug 05, 2005 02:35

Having never watched Bladerunner I have no idea what that means.

by eeeekkkkk Fri Aug 05, 2005 02:37

good

how do you feel about animals in pain?

by dunk Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:24

this story and
through streets broad & narrow: crying five for 50, and ten for a pound. The end of Moore Street?
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69798&search_text=moore%20st
were printed and given to the head of the traders group at the time when the council were proposing a 450% hike the price of their trading licenses.

there has been some contact between the traders and some of the grassroots crew.

by dunk Tue Aug 16, 2005 17:58

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71464
new feature about no 16 moore st