Revival of famous "monday-protests" in Germany

by esmeralda Fri Aug 20, 2004 18:42

@fergal:
Hanna Ahrendt, who created and developped the theory of totalitarism said that the former GDR as well as the Sovjet Union could be considered as totalitarian only till Stalin died (in 1953). After Stalins death the system changed deeply and many elements of totalitarism dissapeared.
She also said that many western "liberal democracies" have also elements of totalitarism.
by the way: according to her definition fascism is the totalitarian form of capitalism.

@franco
As long as (like in Germany) the rich have to pay less taxes and international companies almost no taxes while the workers do have to pay everything there is an alternative to welfare cuts:
tax the rich!
smash capitalism!

by Fergal Fri Aug 20, 2004 15:05

It's not a trivial matter, but RELATIVE to living under totalitarian rule, it is trivial. Hence "relatively trivial". To say otherwise is to equate welfare cuts to 50 years of totalitarianism.

by franko Fri Aug 20, 2004 14:34

Do you reckon the govt should raise taxes, or go ahead with the cuts? Maybe they could borrow money to pay for welfare and the like (which is much the same as doing nothing) ? Or is mere protesting good enough?

A choice has to be made.

by countdown Fri Aug 20, 2004 14:18

http://germany.indymedia.org/2004/08/89874.shtml

by esmeralda Fri Aug 20, 2004 14:15

It is not a relatively trivial matter and many of those who organize the protests now did also organize them in 1989.

By the way: it is more than just protesting against "Hartz 4". The protests slowly turn anticapitalistic.

by Frankly Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:55

To get back to the topic at hand, I know welfare cuts are undesirable an' all, but is it not a bit, er, tasteless to invoke the memory of a genuinely historic movement in support of a relatively trivial matter. What's next, a hunger strike for better arts funding?

by Tallyman Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:49

Your actions speak for themselves. You have attacked SF, SWP, CWM, LP etc. But when the SP were criticised on a thread about the Moore film you demanded the comments be deleted. Given this, it is reasonable to assume that you are a member of the SP.

All anyone has to do to check on the extent of the trolling by Stephen is to use the Indy search facility.

by jeff Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:31

(in german):

http://linke.cc/news/article.php?story=20040818140657890

by Stephen Daedalus Wed Aug 18, 2004 18:47

When did I ever say I was a member of the Socialist Party? I never did! Do you not think that if I was a member of the SP I would say so! I was once accused of being in the Labour Party at one stage! It seems to me that if anyone is critical of Labour or SF or Respect they are automatically put into the ranks of the SP according to the Indymedia trollmasters.

pathetic!

by Tallyman Wed Aug 18, 2004 18:26

He doesnt like SF, the SWP, the Labour Party or the Catholic Workers. But he demands that comments criticising the SP be deleted.

by Cranky Wed Aug 18, 2004 18:13

Stephen is of course trolling as usual. Hes the SY evil twin from UCD who delights in attacking the CWM and Labour.

by Curious Wed Aug 18, 2004 18:05

Ah Steve, the Labour Party is totally separate from the German SPD. They are in different countries. The Socialist International is a very loose federation, there is no central Junta which dictates all policy.

Stephen of course is used to the SP/CWI where there is one line handed down from the CWI Imperial London Leadership. Seeing as Stephen D has raised the subject of international links maybe he could tell us a few things. Why was the Pakistan section expelled from the CWI? How come you lost your entire South African section?

by Stephen Daedalus Wed Aug 18, 2004 17:56

We only have to look to Germany to see what Labour's sister party is up to. Be warned: a Vote for Pat Rabbitte and co is a vote for budget cuts, privatisations and social 'partnership'.

by slash Wed Aug 18, 2004 15:05

Terence!

Cuts in social welfare are not because of capitalists wanting to get more profits, it is because the society cant afford to pay this welfare anymore. Only solution is to either raise taxes (not good for workers because they get less money) or cut social welfare. This is simple mathematics. If counselor Schroder and his government have only 1000 euros and 10 welfare clients, he cant give them 200 each. It is impossible. The only way to do it would be to have less welfare clients and easiest way to do it to give germans the jobs immigrants are occupying at the moment. You can surely understand that if there is 10 jobs and 20 people (10 germans and 10 immigrants) they cant all have jobs. Without these immigrants all germans would have jobs. This is also simple mathematics. German people should think themselves first and what they need. This is not racism, this is realism.

by Terence Wed Aug 18, 2004 14:24

Slash you are an idiot. Unemployment and the historically huge cuts in social welfare and living conditions that are happening are not because of immigrants. They are because the capitalist ruling class want to retain their profits in a recession and are doing that by attacking the working class.

German workers need to unite with workers of all nationalities in their country to defeat these attacks. The capitalists would love to see the working class turn on itself as you are proposing.

by slash Wed Aug 18, 2004 13:01

There are millions foreigners in Germany to steal their jobs. For example 2,4% of population are turkish immigrants. Only 91,5% of the population are germans. Germans should wake up, they are not responsible for what nazis did. There is no reason for racism, but they should think themselves first. They should wake up to see that they are losing their country and take it back. Every year more and more immigrants are coming. This means nothing good for the german population.