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news report
 Thursday June 13, 2002 22:32 by The Blanket - A journal of protest & dissent Belfast
 'I am neither an adversary nor a partisan of Marxism; I question it about what it has to say about experiences that ask questions of it' - Michel Foucault What Chance Socialism?
Lens is a French town, coal mining and working class, that has spawned a culture which for long was conducive to nurturing strong left wing sentiment. In what seems like an act of keeping faith with the past the town is currently fronted by a Socialist Party mayor, Guy Delcourt. Not everyone there sees the past through rose-red tinted lenses and the mayoralty of Delcourt sits perched astride a chasm being prised ever wider beneath it - socialists on one side glaring across at right wing supporters of Jean Marie Le Pen facing them. Joe Klein attended a meeting of the Socialist Party in Lens. It was no real surprise to find him reaching conclusions similar to those already discovered in Belfast and Dublin. The socialists, he mused, 'have no idea how irrelevant they've become'. Most people have heard some variation of the following joke - the leader of one of the sects within Belfast Trotskyism borrows ten pence saying he needs it to phone a follower; the lender tosses him twenty and says 'call them all'. Yesterday, a friend, Liam, brought over a couple of papers from the sects. Why he bothered I have no idea; probably to wind me up. They never get read here, always reminding me of the little religious tracts that the occasional born again Christian with the Board Of Visitors would bring around while we were on the blanket protest for the sole purpose of tormenting us. A torment rapidly transformed into delight by the wing smokers who used the pages as cigarette papers. The message of the tract was invariably 'read this and agree with us or you will forever suffer hellfire and damnation'. Said out loud in a coarse, broad North of Ireland accent and the effect becomes even more pronounced. How easily Christians can glide from born again to burn again if you don't agree with them. Left wing sect members are not much different. Marx once said that the sects proliferate when there is nothing progressive happening. Ours are so impoverished in the quality stakes that they don't even proliferate here where there is certainly nothing progressive going on, and would have fewer members than their religious counterparts waiting in the narrow streets of Belfast's city centre to ambush any misfortunate and hand them a leaflet with some psalm on it while gruffly inquiring 'are ye saved yet?' Anyway, the papers that Liam brought were so dull from all perspectives that my daughter rather than tearing them up, as is the normal fate for the papers she gets her hands upon, scattered them across the floor - and what is it they say about truth and the mouths of babes? A while ago myself and Liam went to a Left unity conference in Dublin. But it was like sitting in at a meeting of the vertically horizontal society, a veritable consensus seeker's Purgatory. Besides, left unity would spoil the party - what could they do with unity? What purpose would they have in their lives if they couldn't shout 'bourgeois deviationist ... social democratic centrist ... Menshevik' at each other? What appeal would there be for them in a political existence where there was no place for the joyous pastime of purging the ideological unclean on the grounds of what Trotsky said: 'the party in the last analysis is always right ... one must not be right against the party. One can only be right with the party, and through the party'. No purges, no ideological errors to correct, nobody to lord it over - the sect member's ultimate nightmare. In any event we could hardly contain ourselves in Dublin as the Spartacus League howled 'defend China ... Ken Livingstone is an imperialist pig.' What one had to do with the other I remain unsure. And then some boring bureaucratic type from Belgium united us all - in sleep. No wonder the sects never transmit ideas when all but the most devout of listeners fall unconscious during the delivery of yet another turgid testimony. Caught in Corn Market one Friday morning with a friend, Alex, as we waited on his partner and child, ''Brother Bobby Brown'' from East Belfast took to the bandstand and invited us to share in his Damascus Road conversion to the Lord. Now Brother Bobby was hard to listen to but we heard him out in wonderment at what propels someone onto bandstands, when there are pubs open just across the street, to regale passers by with their testimony which virtually no one apart from our two cynical selves appeared vaguely interested in. As uninspiring as Brother Bobby was the Dublin experience with Comrade Trot was immeasurably duller. Small surprise that Gerry Healy of the Workers Revolutionary Party (seriously, they did call themselves that) in his leadership era livened matters up a bit through a touch of hanky-panky with the membership. At least the worst those of us unhappy with the Sinn Fein leadership can say is that our Gerry only screws us politically. No doubt things were explained to the sceptical as merely a tactical variation of entryism, situated in the practical application of a dialectical blend of Marx and Freud - recasting revolutionary strategy in the form of a new National Libido Front for Tooting. Socialism, if defined as bringing capital under democratic control must have a future. For Marx certainly had a point in warning either 'socialism or barbarism'. That so many of its would-be-beneficiaries seem repelled from it is not because of any great job those who favour capitalism have done in destroying the intellectual and ethical merit of socialism, but lies in the appalling case made for it by the Left. Arm the most mediocre minds with a totalising ideology and allow them to believe it is a grand metanarrative which can explain everything - and another self-important and self referential fundamentalist cult is then in business. That it has only two or three members is neither here nor there, it alone has the 'truth' which it shall endeavour to inflict on the rest of us. Is it any wonder that socialist ideas are in the doldrums when an intellectual caricature can command a central place in socialist discourse, despite the rich intellectual heritage socialism clearly possesses? While in prison I recall going through an Open University course where the case study dealt with a meeting of an English left sect. Four there belonged to the various state security agencies while three attended because they belived in it. It is hard to imagine that the state would spend time spying on that crowd when, as spook and Spycatcher author Peter Wright said, there are ponds of quacking ducks more dangerous who could be subjected to some underwater surveillance. One can only conclude that the security services had penetrated the sects not to monitor them but to assist them in the promotion of the socialist message - a sure way of ensuring no one would ever receive it. While the sects continue to operate as the public face of the radical left then rampaging capitalism can relax and smirk contently, comforted by the thought, 'what chance socialism?'
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Comments (19 of 19)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19And Sinn Feins gonna do it? One thing you can say about the left sects they didn't lead people down the dead end of "armed struggle". Where you either spend half your life in jail or dead. Not to mention the innocents. Socialism will come anbout through mass action. SF are privatising schools and closing hospitals in the North while claiming to be anti privatisation in the south. They claimed they led the anti bin charge campaign in dublin (bollox) while introducing it in Sligo. Ladies and gentlemen a young Fianna Fail. Parties can start off small but the shinners have a national profile and lots of rich backers. And are over 100 years old. SP in ten years has got a td and close to a second with no money and while being ignored by the media.
SF will do a labour but the difference is after people reject them they'll whip up nationalism to try and regain their support.
The first comment is just a bonus, to prove the point.
I wonder what the people who died on hunger strike or in the war would think of the sight of the likes of Martin McGuinness or Bairbre De Brun sitting in Stormont, closing hospitals and doing a PFI on schools. So much for a 32 county socialist republic. Not to mention being only too willing to get into government with Bertie Ahern.
The article is about sectarianism??? How did you manage to figure that out? Seems to me he said anyone who considered themselves a socialist is an irrelevant dreamer and he points out in a crude way a mass party is needed. (which is true, but thats another story) The problem with sinn fein is they do not have socialism as a goal. And the other critisims are correct at the end of the day sf are a catholic nationalist party. Maybe thats a sectarian thing to say but its the truth. The problem with "why can't we all get along" people is where do you stop. Sinn Fein are a party who will use the nationalist card again and again to gain support and territory, thats not good. And theres no point in brushing over this for some sort of short term gain. Its been done many many times. The problem with accusing everyone of being sectarian is are you allowed critise at all? Are you allowed to say what you think without being shot down as a sectarian? Theres nothing more ridiculas than people on the left running round doing this. Debate if you like but debate don't bury your head behind the sectarian thing happens far to often on this site.
the description of parties as sects is a clue.
as is the following phrase
'Besides, left unity would spoil the party - what could they do with unity? What purpose would they have in their lives if they couldn't shout 'bourgeois deviationist ... social democratic centrist ... Menshevik' at each other? What appeal would there be for them in a political existence where there was no place for the joyous pastime of purging the ideological unclean '
So I stand by my statement that this is about sectarianism. rather than look at the causes / reality of what the poster is talking about you attacked the SF party line. Since the poster doesn't defend the SF party line in this or other posts
'those of us unhappy with the Sinn Fein leadership can say is that our Gerry only screws us politically.'
it is IMHO a bit silly and sectarian to respond by attacking SF. I'm all for debate - just try and comment on the article posted, not your general life view.
(and BTW, it is not necessary to be on the left to post to Indymedia).
In this article a sinn fein member politically attacked all parties on the left, I responded and made some political points on Sinn Fein. You seem to think someone is only sectarian when someone disagrees with you. Was this SF article sectarian as it attacks other parties? I don't think so. I didn't respond to the SF artice by accussing him of being sectarian I answered with political points. Your reply on the other hand simply said I was sectarian full stop. That is not debate you said absolutely nothing else. You can make any points at all about my party or its policies (which you haven't done) all your are saying is I am sectarian. Again thats not debate.
You quoted a line about name calling, which ironically is excatly what you did. Debate the issues. To me the issue was the futility of all left wing parties that they are all too busy squabbaling to make a difference. And presumably his point was your wasting your time in them. I do't btw consider the SP to be a sect we have quite a layer of support on the Northside of Dublin. My point was and still is if you want socialism or consider yourself a socialist there is no point in being in SF. Basically the oppisite to his point. You have yet to say what you think on this.
The fact that he is quoting Foucault should remind you all of what McIntyre is about these days: Publishing an irrelevant journal while pissing about with continental philosophy.
The piece is predictable and pointless. He serves up a cliched description of 57 varieties sectarianism, stuff which is designed only to justify his own abstention from real activity.
There are some oddball political sects out there? No shit. Did we really need McIntyre to tell us that the Spartacists are lunatics?
It is interesting though that when he tries to back up his sweeping assertions the examples he gives are those of the Spartacists and the old WRP - hardly representative even of the stranger sectarian outfits.
When he ridicules the use of language like "bourgeois deviationist" and the rest I am left open-mouthed. Why not throw "Pabloite revisionist" into his fantasy while he is at it? Nobody uses such language on the left. For parody to work there has to be some underlying truth. He might as well mock the left for the inefficient way in which it is carrying out the exploration of the solar system.
If he wants to attack various left-wing groupings let him make specific criticisms honestly. To starting with an unrecognisable parody, refer to the Sparts and the WRP and then to generalise is neither honest nor useful.
McIntyre is not a member of Sinn Fein. He is in fact highly critical of them.
You're just making McIntyre's point for him without one!
I did miss something, it was this line that got me
"At least the worst those of us unhappy with the Sinn Fein leadership can say is that our Gerry only screws us politically. "
sounds like something a member would say, still I stand corrected.
Once I was accused of supporting a "right wing bourgeois illusionist"
by someone from the SWP. Still by far my favorite leftist insult.
Anyway once else got any?
Right, the french socialist party is NOT socialist, they just kept their old name from the split of the SFIO ( marxists went on to built the french communist party and the liberals the socialist party). They are at best social democrats like the ones in Sweden who used live amunitions on us. Even the french communist party droped the idea of revolution in the 70s as they saw it as out dated. This is not only true in France: italy, germany,...well, it is all bourgeois isn't it? Thank fuck people just start to realise it. We know it over in France since 1936.
The major problem to transfer politics from the continent to here is: the continental countries are mostly all ex ( or still) empires. We live in half a colony and half a free state. I think it would be more interesting to see the political development in countries live Algeria rather than looking in Europe for similar situations.
Maybe you should have a look to anarchism...
If your problem is marxism...well, I think there is not much happening in your life then.
Would it be possible for the people running this site to trim off some of the superfluous tit-for-tat propaganda and insults that are being traded in ever increasing numbers.
Indymedia as a site is at its best when it's somewhere to get serious alternative news and views... But surely the point of is not to be a platform for nonsense like this.
Censorship is never a good idea. And really this debate isn't bad. We have to debate the issues and they are important issues. You can't paper over everything. SF are putting themselves forward as a left wing workers party and they simply aren't. To say this is telling the truth not being sectarian.
And to be honest I suspect if they ever started censoring it your organisation would suffer the most.
But if you don't want to take part fine. Debate is important and in fact essential. And you can't pass everything off as being sectarian. Its dodging the issue
I don't object to debate. I don't even disagree too strongly with your analysis of SF. What I do think is that it was somewhat misplaced in the context of the above article which did not, as far as i understood it, say anything positive about Sinn Fein.
A couple of issues raised by the article:
Is splitting better than an entryist / reform from within tactic?
Should you work within an existing party to move it to your policies or split and form your own grouping. I think this is relevant to the above post (by a disaffected member of the republican movement who has chosen to stay and fight within the party?? as far as I can see) but also to the history of SP, to the current developments in the Trade Union movement etc. Talk about the undemocratic one party rule in much of catholic working class northern ireland as the alternative to myriad parties and sects. This is relevant to the article.
My opinion: I lean towards entryism but couldn't be bothered - therefore I don't join parties.
How do you make a movement and ideology which carries so much 19th century baggage relevant to single issue politics. Can an analysis of capitalist society really be updated to include the current phase of imperialism (globalisation can be seen as imperialism within, rather than the imperialism without which ran up to 1950 or so). Does the 19th century philosophy of nationalism offer any real advantages over the 19th century philosophy of marxism.
my opinion: socialism needs to look to it's roots - the labour and co-operative movements.
Too much socialist analysis consists of identifying the latest sins of the 'fat cats'. I see this as a failure of the ideology - it's not the people but rather the system of capitalism that contains within it it's own logic - which then imposes itself on the management of companies, politicians seeking power and funding, countries seeking investment etc. There is also a sort of catch all progression from the single issue to - we need a world socialist revolution or we need a 32 county socialist republic or whatever. This is ideology and dogma, not meaningful.
my opinion: theory good, ideology bad.
But most of all, I'm not allowed to raise an issue if I have any link to a party which can then be attacked on a completely unrelated issue: how dare you criticise my party sure look at how SF / Greens / SP / whoever acted about whatever. This is the pointlessness that turns lots of people (me included) off radical left parties (and all political parties - look at the crap TV that was the election coverage - 4 or 5 suits shouting over each other capped off by aherne and noonan shouting over each other).. This is the pointlessness complained of in the article and I believe it is the pointlessness which the original post by red was guilty of. I, possibly naively, called it sectarianism.
Whatever it is, it's not politics that i give a fuck about.
sorry brian, you're right, he shouldn't have quoted a philosopher. philosophy sucks, right? will you be doing away with them as well when the revolution comes?
and was marx not in part a philosopher? so every piece of socialist literature that quotes him is as bad as this article?
On your last point C. He didn't simply attack any particular party I took it as him saying the whole hard ledt movement is futile. But my simple answer which I will repeat if your goal is socialism the republican movement isn't the place to be. On entryism I don't oppose it I'm sure you know our party was in labour for decades. But in our opinion Labour ceased to be a workers party. And we fought for a long time (too long in my opinion) In other countries we remain in larger parties. And if a mass workers party is formed we will be in it. That is our position, but for us a new mass workers party has to be more than simply the small forces of the current left joining.
But at the end of the day sf aren't a wp. they are in NI only one side of the divide and for that reason I wouldn't join them.
If it doesn't interest you I'm sorry but you inciated the debate remeber not me I am simply replying to you. If you don't want to join a party thats your choice you can be active without being a member of any party.
SF are facing a serios contradition talk to any of their members in Dublin especially the newer ones, ask them what they think of a SF/FF coalition? And they will agree the leadership wanted this. When SF go into gov in the south which could happen in the next decade I think you go see a split. Unless they whip up the green card which they will proabaly do. That is very dangerous for everyone.
And we have to be honest about what SF are. Theres no point in not being so as not to offend.
I wasn't complaining about McIntyre quoting philosophers. I was irritated by his use of a quote from one particular thinker - Foucault.
Quoting philosophy is alright with Brian - as long as you are quoting the "right" philosophers!!!!!!!!!!
Well actually while I'm no acdemic I would regard Marx as a Shite philsopher.
Of course his detailed analysis of the capitalist system and how and why it works is brilliant
and still has lessons for those of us trying to self educate to-day.
Basically I believe in people helping each other where they can and if possible in defiance of
istitutions if possible. If someone offers to help me in an action in my locality and that person happens
to be a member of Sinn Fein I'm not going to presume that this individual is a brainwashed zombie
under leadership orders just to trump up some short term political kudos. If such presumptions were
fair life would be very simple. My neighbours won't buy into purist holier than though from the left.
I look forward to more concrete initiatives and suggestions from the left my mind is open