israel found guilty, but nothing changes

by ipsiphi Fri Jul 09, 2004 22:50

in the Nederlands, to discuss it.

by Ali H. Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:18

to boycott iSSrael.

by John McDermott - R.F.F.P. Sat Jul 10, 2004 17:46 Dublin,Ireland

The whole world must be heard,,with one voice.There is only one Father ,of all peoples.
I am proposing the creation of an International Internet Book of Protest against the American Government's policy in Iraq and Israel,and the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people.
What is clearly and unequivocally happening in the Middle East today is no less than the systematic ‘ethnic cleansing’ of Palestinians,by a fiendish combination of stealth ,on the one hand;-and ruthless oppression, on the other.
In this ,the Israeli government,are regretfully,fully supported by an overwhelming majority of the jewish population ,and even more vehemently by their Diaspora in the U.S.A..
Their influence in America is so profound,that no aspiring,or incumbent President dare challenge their re-conquest of their ancestral homeland.On the contrary the American taxpayer has funded their expansionism to the tune of billions of dollars,and young G.I.s ,in the prime of their lives,are sadly coming home in bodybags daily ,due to Bush’s embroilment in a quagmire which may yet match Vietnam.
After 9/11,America prepares the sandbags , to create the largest fortress in world history.
As they build a technological Great Chinese Wall,around the North American Continent- ,Israel is matching it with a concrete version somewhat alike to the barbed wire and watchtower variety which once before circumscribed their destiny in the death camps of The Third Reich.
The fanatical Muslim elements worldwide are emboldened and take strength daily from the injustices perpetrated in the name of an equally fanatical Jewish ‘God.’
Ben Laden’s chilling words ‘America will never be at peace as long as Palestine is unfree’
Are the precursor for an endless guerrilla war .The American people will pay a high the price for their government’s intransigence.
The task of concerned Indymedia supporters worldwide is to make a beginning.
Anti-war protests are of course valuable symbols of the opposition of decent people everywhere to this endless conflict,in which,both soldiers and civilians,including children are maimed or lose their homes ,their land and their lives daily.
A groundswell of manifest support for economic sanctions by the European community against Israel is a first real step.Israel has spent its moral capital.The second world war is long past .Millions of non jews also gave their lives in this conflict.
For all of us who cannot physically demonstrate our abhorrence of this war,We must somehow empower ourselves to displaying our outrage.
Why ,one asks have E.E.C.sanctions not already begun, as Israel is in flagrant breach of every human right codicle,and statute in the Geneva convention of international law.
If our governments will not listen,perhaps a European Internet Petition Site calling for hundreds of thousands of signatures could begin this campaign which will surely be supported throughout the enlarged European Community of Nations,and indeed far beyond.
I put this proposal to any group with the expertise and/the resources to make a start,a symbolic beginning … to enable the common people to be heard, beyond the vacuum of silence,and empty posturing of our elected representatives in the E.U.

by eeekkkk Sat Jul 10, 2004 19:22

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/07/294555.html

by gargoyle Sun Jul 11, 2004 01:24

Suicide bombings have dropped off hugely since Israel decided to crack down and decapitate the terrorist organisation leadership. During the past two years, virtually the entire original leadership of Hamas in Gaza has been killed and bomings are down by 75% on the same period a year ago. For four months, there has not been a successful "operation" inside Israel, as Hamas and Islamic Jihad describe their attempts to kill and maim on buses and streets.

Looks like their current policy is working pretty well. Wall might not have to be built after all, or if it is, at least it could be built within the original boundaries.

by ionest Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:11

I wud rather be illegally alive than legally dead

by redjade Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:59

International Court of Justice:
Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall
in the Occupied Palestinian Territory
. . . . . . .
Given the character and the importance of the rights and obligations involved, the Court is of the view that all States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem.  They are also under an obligation not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction.  It is also for all States, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to see to it that any impediment, resulting from the construction of the wall, to the exercise by the Palestinian people of its right to self?determination is brought to an end.  In addition, all the States parties to the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 are under an obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention.

by Fred - Honest Brokers Inc. Mon Jul 12, 2004 01:25 fred at yahoo dot com

Those idiotic judges at the Hague should have gone to Israel --first -to see the de Fence and then to see the maimed and injured from all the past 4 years murderous attacks carried out by the ARABS .

Then may be they should have gone to Sudan , Sierra Leone , Cuba and China and some of the other countries whose Human rights record is abysmal but who have decided to tell Jews what to do --stay and be murdered .
Some of these wonderful countries made representations and complained to the "Court " and others had judges passing judgement . What wallies ?
What a complete farce .?
Each country has a right to defend its citizens along defensible borders .
The cease fire lines of 1949 are NOT BORDERS so israel has a right to build a fence for de Fence any where where it needs to .
The Court of INJUSTICE used words and terms which are totally at varience with the facts and correct legal usage .

The "opinion " they gave was not a ruling and was totally in accurate .

Until the Arabs want a real peace and are prepared to live side by side with Jews in the LAND OF ISRAEL --remember your Bible ?--- they will have to learn to keep to themsleves .
By the way Nightlife in Jenin and other Arab occupied towns is great now since the de Fence fence went up . The boyos stay at home in the town and go clubbing -as they cant go and do a bit of sniping or bombing now the Fence is there .

by redjade Mon Jul 12, 2004 15:31

July 07, 2004
The Wall and Israel's Aims
by Noam Chomsky at July 7, 2004 04:01 PM

If the goal were security, Israel would have built the fence a few km inside its borders. It could then be a mile high, patrolled on both sides by the IDF, mined with nuclear weapons, utterly impenetrable. Perfect security.

The problem would be that it would not take valuable Palestinian land and resources (including control of water), drive out the population, and lay the basis for still further expansion as Palestinians flee from the dungeons that are left, like the town of Qalqilya. So to interpret as a land grab seems appropriate.

by David C. Mon Jul 12, 2004 22:45

Israel is now a pariah state that is openly exposed as a sociopathic, machiavellian stealer of land. The majority of the world's people have broken through Israel's propaganda machine and have come to their own conclusion. Politicians squirm in their manipulated defense of Israel's policies and in their inaction. Decent Israelis are ashamed of their country. Israel is losing its campaign to steal the West bank and Gaza.

Israel WILL lose. It WILL be beaten back to its 1967 borders. The land thieves WILL be defeated.

The Palestinian people are magnificent heroes. They have fought not only for their own land but for the right of all of us to live with fairness and justice. They have suffered unimaginably so that all of humanity can know that justice ALWAYS prevails in the end. Their fight against the Israelis, like the fight against the Nazis, is the ultimate beacon of hope in our world.

God bless them and keep them.

by T Flannery Tue Jul 13, 2004 02:41

What a joke. The problem with the UN is that the majority of the world's people are governed by criminal despots - yet some people think we should give these tin pot dicators power over us? Forget about it.

The Wall stays. It is there to protect inocent people from murdering thugs who are interested in nothing but the complete destruction of Israel.

Get used to it commies.

by Ali H. Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:28

You are obviously surviving on a diet of Israeli propaganda.

Did someone forget to tell you that Israel keeps Palestinians hemed in so they cannot go about their daily business by keeping them for hours at checkpoints and that an entire generation of children has missed out on education?

Do you live in an information vacuum where news of Palestinian infant mortality and poverty on a massive scale doesn't reach you? Perhaps you simply don't care if the Israelis kill 3 times the number of civilians killed by terrorists?

Maybe it's a case of out of sight is out of mind, or worse still that for you Palestinians are not human beings and hence can be mistreated and even exterminated with impunity?

by Tim D Tue Jul 13, 2004 14:07

A 400 page ICJ ruling about the Israeli barrier which doesn't once mention "terrorism". How's that for complete & total bias.

by David C. Tue Jul 13, 2004 20:58

The report doesn't mention terrorism because the wall has nothing to do with terrorism - it has to do with the Israelis trying to steal land from the Palestinians.

The court's ruling applies only to the parts of the wall that do not follow Israel's border ('the green line"). If the Israels were truely interested in security then they would have built the wall on their own border. But they care about land far more than they care about security.

But they WILL lose. Israel will be forced back to its pre-1967 borders, one way or another. Then the violence will stop.

Believe me - if they came for YOUR ancestral land in the same ruthless, sociopathic, machiavellian way that they are pursuing the land of the Palestinians then, you would fight them too. Fighting them is the right thing to do.

Resistance is NOT "terrorism". Not in France in WW2, not in Palestine and not in Iraq. It is real heroism.