STOP BUSH -protests June 25th and 26th

by How can you? Mon May 31, 2004 21:29

How can you market this as a "Stop Bush" response when there is no intention to intervene on Bush, his visit or his troops passing through Shannon? In truth, it is "Make the Best Political Mileage Out of the Bush Visit Possible" strategy for the IAWM/SWP.

The IAWM/SWP strategy is to keep people in Dublin away from where Bush is landing on the Friday night. Offering people the panacea of an expensive rock concert (in the hope of clearing IAWM printing debts to the SWP) to register their protest againt Bush. Then sending send a car load of SWPers as "the legitmate voice of antiwar protest in Ireland" to the castle on the Saturday in the hope of taking the media away from the libertarian groups who are heading directly to Shannon and the castle.

Shannon Airport will remain the issue of Irish complicity in the ongoing USA war on Iraq long after Bush is replaced by Kerry. That the IAWM has steered the anti-war movement away from Shannon is evident.

Look at last Saturday's Guardian page 2 for how British Aerospace intelligence operatives infiltrated the highest ranks of the Campaign Against the Arms Trade" in the UK and ask yourself if the same swift one hasn't been pulled here?

The agenda of the state was to keep the anti-war movement away from Shannon and the 10,000+ U.S. troops passing through Ireland monthly - and it looks like the IAWM are fulfilling that agenda once again.

by AR Mon May 31, 2004 21:44

At least Antiwar Ireland is organising a march for Shannon, otherwise I would find this stay-at-home manifesto deeply depressing. If the IAWM had its way George W Bush would be able to comfortably drive in calvacade from Shannon to Dromoland waving his hanky out the window.

by Jim Bob - none Mon May 31, 2004 22:46 County Sligo

About the so-called regional demos - am I the only one that's noticed that they're mostly clustered near Shannon? The only exception is Waterford. I notice there's no "regional demos" in Bray, Athlone, or anywhere within 100 miles of Dublin. Why? Because they're needed on the Dublin demo. Nothing will be done that could potentially bring down the numbers on that demo.

These people need their heads examined.

by djcary Mon May 31, 2004 23:09

I wont be even in the counrty on that weekend so i suppose i shouldnt comment but WHY are the iawm having everything a million miles from Bush??? Idiotic and stupid. shannon is obviously the place to be when Bush lands but nothing seems obvious these days it seems. maybe he'll land at Baldonnel. Must go to the pub now.

Cheers.

by Cristy Ring - "Must be swp if he dont agree" Tue Jun 01, 2004 01:52 Dublin

Hi Jim bob, AR, How can you, and DJcary.Now obviously with such a massive and thoughful critique of the STOP BUSH plans it is foolish to suggest that you brave individuals might be getting your collective knicker in a twist over nothing.
Some questions;
1. Do you really think that even if the IAWM where not organising a protest on Fri in Dublin that you could gather enought protesters to Shannon to physically stop this visit?
2.How many would you need. Would they all agree in advance that NVDA was needed?
3.Would the prospect of thousands trying to get on to the runway at Shannon encourage more to come or less?
4 What would the reaction of the State and media be to this prospect? Would they sit back and take it or will they deploy the entire forces of the state to make sure the visit goes ahead.?
5. Do you believe that those who want to show their abhorrance at Bush but dont fancy a direct confrontation with the state are a waste of space and not real anti war.
6.Do any of you really believe that we care about your paranoid rantings about police agents and evil SWpers anymore?
Go build the protests in Shannon, let the IAWM build theres and STOP THE PETTY SHIT in between

by Captain Sensible Tue Jun 01, 2004 01:54

We know what to expect from the IAWM at this stage, so I wish people would just move on and stop complaining about them. Go to the Anti-War Ireland demo, and just forget about the IAWM. The complaining (while fully understandable) is just leading to negativity. Forget about them.

by Captain Sensible Tue Jun 01, 2004 02:06

I just read the 'Cristy Ring' (it's 'Christy' by the way) comment after I posted, and such bile!

More to the point, what are you on about Cristy? Nobody has suggested that the protest in Shannon be a 'direct action' or NVDA event of any sort. It is intended to be a mass mobilisation of peaceful anti-war protesters making their voices heard as Bush lands at the airport. Nobody is talking about storming the runway.

Unfortunately, in some quarters, we are seeing a very sinister black propaganda exercise aimed at painting the IAWM as the 'sensible' protesters and Anti-War Ireland as 'nutcases' wedded to NVDA tactics. It is also being suggested that AWI is fixated on protests at Shannon and is not interested in mass protest.

Anti-War Ireland is clearly focused on mass movement politics and on ending Irish complicity by those means. It believes that civil disobedience is a tactic that can be effectively deployed at times, but not every time! In reality, the composition of Anti-War Ireland is much more diverse than that in the IAWM. Look at the list of AWI media spokespeople posted on this site.

Black propaganda is a dispicable tactic, but rank-and-file anti-war activists across the country wil see it for the destructive rubbish that it is.

by Cleaver Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:44

As I'm not part of any anti-war group or party I'm not really too interested in who does what.
For me, and many more I'm sure, the question is can I make it to shannon for the weekend. If I can go (work, family etc being factors) I will. If I can't go I'll go to the march in Dublin.
I'm glad there is an option for people, marching may not make a difference but it is important that as many people turn out to voice opposition to this visit as possible.
Good luck to all the organisers and events the mainstream media will be spending enough time having a go at us without all this infighting.

by David Tue Jun 01, 2004 13:12

Is to protest regionally on the week before and show solidarity with the Shannon protestors while Bush is in Ireland.

Neither of which the IAWM are intending to do.

by Cyclist Tue Jun 01, 2004 13:43

There will be a Critical Mass on Friday 25th meeting up about 6pm at the Garden of Rememberance, Bikes not Bush!

Any reports from the CM last week? as I wasn't able to make it myself

by kev - independent thinker Tue Jun 01, 2004 15:19 tipdrinker at online dot ie http://joy-scar.tripod.com

im trying to make a documentary at the mo and im wondering if it's possible to go to both the dublin and shannon protests.

is there busses going from dublin after the protest or anything?

im not with any organisation so im wondering if there's any provision for the about 90,000 ordinary people that will be going to the anti bush protest in dublin to organise transport and get as many people down as possible.

by G Tue Jun 01, 2004 17:53

Look I'm a pretty ordinary peace lovin, bush hatin person, livin in dublin. The fact is I don't have time to go all the way down to Shannon to protest that weekend, due to responsibilities beyond protesting. A lot of people don't have time to be a full time activist. Instead I'm gonna go to the protest in Dublin (he must have been brainwashed by the SWP!!) Fair fucks to everyone whos gonna be down in Shannon to greet GW, hope it goes well and I encourage anyone to attend but please, stop going on and on about how bad and evil the march in Dublin is. I won't be in the country on the week before so i can't join in then and a lot of ordinary people just can't/won't go all the way to the other side of the country to protest. If you can go to Shannon, go to Shannon. If you wanna go to Dublin, then go to Dublin. Maybe together we'll make enough noise that people on bothsides of the country take notice and people on the other side of the Atlantic notice just how popular their leadership is.

by GGer Tue Jun 01, 2004 19:19

Nobody is saying the Dublin demo shouldn't happen, so it's hard to know where you got that impression unless you're setting up a straw man.

What people are criticising (at least the people I'm meeting & chatting to) are the regional demos planned for Sligo, Galway and Tralee. These WILL bring down the numbers at Shannon and, please, don't tell me they're needed for folks with kids, other commitments etc, because if that's how these things go, then we should have local/regional demos every time there is a national march/demo in Dublin.

The demos in Galway, Kerry and Sligo should be called off and everybody there should put a big effort into mobilising people for Shannon. The local demos could then be held on the Saturday.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker & Pitstop Ploughshares Tue Jun 01, 2004 19:30 087 918 4552

Yep also spotted the article in "The Guardian" on Saturday "Campaigner a BAE mole, Anti-Arms Group Says" www.guardian.co.uk/antiwar

The fulltime CAAT organiser/BAE infiltrator Martin Holgbin was significantly placed. It's kind of personal as "Alan Fossey" was placed around the Liverpool Catholic Worker during the same period (see Sunday Times front page expose last year).To think the same thing is going on in the country that is provideing THE signifivant pit stop for U.S. forces invading Iraq would have to be naieve.

The war, and significant response to it, has gone way past bed time, business as usual and not disrupting one's 9-5, 5 year plans of study & career. The soldiers fighting it are willing to risk arms, legs, lives and sanity. If the peace movement is going to seriously resist it, we're going to have to take some nonviolent risk ourselves OR be in proactive solidarity with those who are. Otherwise what is served up by the moderates & SWP is merely therapeutic, posturing as morally superior, media profile lifting for the careerists or yes seeing the whole war as a marketting, recruiting opportunity for whatever small left group one is part of.

The total lack of mutuality (not even the Trotskyist nightmare they have in store for the world!) is what pisses folks off about the SWP bureaucrats (there are some quite nice rank and filers with a high turnover who are worth reflecting with!). That the AWI are publicising IAWM activities and that the IAWM are attempting to censor marginalise any other antiwar initiatives is predictable (once you've been around this movement for a while!) and instructive (if you're only new to it!)

On the bright side good scene pulled off on Memorial Day at the U.S. Embassy see link below
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65309

Yes I have a job and yes I'm going to organise my life so I'm as close to George W as my bail conditions permit on June 25/26!

by Cristy Ring - Anti GW Wed Jun 02, 2004 00:55

Hi Its cristy here, ( oh and I will misspeell my name as I please)
You say, and I quote" ...sinister black propaganda to depict Shannon protestors as nutcases".
Where? By who? When?
Again Mr Sensible you talk bullshit, Bullshit bullshit. More paranoid rantings. Go build the demo in Shannon, and the best of luck. I will be there. let the IAWM build the Dublin and regional ones and the best of luck to them and stop this petty squabbleing in between. no one gives a fuck any more. Lets go for 100,000protestors marching in Dublin that will embarress the hell out of Bush and Ahern and thousands in Shannon and Dromoreland as well.Good day This is my last comment on this.

by Captain Sensible Wed Jun 02, 2004 01:47

Are you drunk?

Oh, never mind. Look, you're beginning to sound like a broken record. Yes, support all the marches - good man yourself.

The 100,000 comment is funny though. Aul RBB has predicted that 1 million people will turn out for the anti-Bush demos. I hope the sage has his finger on the people's pulse, though his non-election in Kingstown will be telling.

Anyways, snide remarks aside, yeah go on whatever demo suits you, but go on a demo! It will all add up to something significant.

by Jacko Wed Jun 23, 2004 15:02

I'll leave it as an exercise in the bleedin' obvious why this thread has reminded me of scenes from The Life of Brian.

No protest will get anywhere near Bush himself, and nor should it need to. All that's needed is for enough people to get out on the streets to show their opposition. Bring posters, flags and noise and get stuck in. Show the media and the world what you think..

I'll be on the Dublin march.

Can I just ask those who are attacking each other here to remember the common enemy?

by pc Wed Jun 23, 2004 18:14

my commmon "enemy" is people who lie and backstab to get what they want ....

by amy Wed Jun 23, 2004 18:52

For fuck sake does it really matter if you go on a march with the IAWM/SWP (yes we know your the swp) or ambush2004 or who the fuck else is claiming to be the "proper" anti-war movement. what really matters is you go to shannon or where ever else you can make it. Seriously cos this bollocks is getting on my nerves and im sure others nerves too. JUST GO

by Jim Wed Jun 23, 2004 19:19

...
Do you honestly think Bush CARES? :|

This is going to be a pain in the hole for people wanting to go to the Metallica gig, the same bloody day.

Bush is the President of a super power, people in Ireland protesting is the last thing on his mind. I doubt he cares. And no, I'm not pro-bush, I just have some sense.

by amy Wed Jun 23, 2004 19:36

Jim you plum, more important metalica or the illagal occupation of Iraq? Hmm let me see, oh i know IRAQ. We the protesters are d.e.m.o.n.s.t.r.a.t.i.n.g againt the use of shannon airport and the visit of george bush.
we do not want our"government" welcoming that warmonger. There is a point to all this its called getting your heard ang being counted.

by Jim Wed Jun 23, 2004 19:58

Then tell me, will bush listen to you?
The whole world licks the arse of bush, that's not going to change because of a demonstration. And you know that fine well.

Your more of a "plum" than I if you think he is.
Go ahead and do it, you're only holding up other peoples lives in the process who have things to do.

by desmond Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:24

Jim

by holding demonstrations all over the country, we might not be able to do any serious damage to that warmongering idiot Bush, but we can't all just take your apathetic attitude and think what's the point?

So we can't get near him, but he can't fail to hear about demos all over the country and the feelings of the Irish people in general towards him and his pathetic excuse for a presidency.
Even if our own goverment lack the backbone to tackle the little creep for his illegal occupation of Iraq, bombing Afghanistan back into the Jurassic age, his frankly disgusting foreign policy and his withdrawal from the Kyoto agreement, that's no reason for us to just lie down and take it.


Even people who lost friends and family in the world trade centre attacks have had enough of him and his army of jarheads tramping all over any country that he mistakenly thinks 'threatens our freedoms'. What a load of bloody crap. Not every country in the world aspires to be like America. Hopefully the American people will come to their senses and not re-elect him. A dangerous idiot like that shouldn't be put in charge of a sweeping brush never mind a world power.

I will be going to the demo in dublin tomorrow and I will go to every possible one until someone takes that tyrant down.

You go to your concert Jim and enjoy, hope the traffic isn't too bad for you. The rest of us who care about what happens on this planet will be at the garden of remembrance, which happens to honour the memory of people from this country who got up off their butts because they cared about making a difference

by Student - N/A Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:52

Like Des I will be going to the Dublin Protest I unable to go to Shannon like alot of my Friends. If there was no Dublin Protest , I wouldnt have the chance to voice my anger not only on the war in Iraq but the Israeli land grabs in Palestine, Bush’s support of dangerous right wing Christian Groups. I only go on to indymedia to see what action is going on. But sick and tired of all this petty bickering. Could everyone just grow up and see who the real enemy is!

by Jim Thu Jun 24, 2004 15:10

I will shake your hand Desmond if you can get rid of Bush by demonstrating. Because it won't happen. The only thing it might do is push him out of this country on his visit a bit faster. Our own government is no better, no government is good, and Bush is just an example anyway to a badly run government.
I know fine rightly what he's doing to the middle east, Even if Bush wasn't there, it would happen anyway, it's not solely George Bush, remember he would have all sorts of advisors and help through this, he's a face for the public.

Demonstrating in a country he couldn't care less about, sounds like a brilliant idea.

by nordie Thu Jun 24, 2004 16:20

Does anyone think that if it looks certain that Bush is gonna lose the election, the real power behind the throne (Cheney and all) would have him assasinated? Make it look like a Al'Qaeda job? It could get the sympathy vote and secure the Rep's another 4 years in office. Bush is little more than a front man.

by News updater Thu Jun 24, 2004 17:35

NGO alliance says protests will be peaceful

An alliance of non-Governmental organisations has said protests against the visit by US President George W Bush to Ireland would be completely peaceful.

The NGO Peace Alliance said the visit was merely a photo call opportunity for Mr Bush to attract Irish and Catholic votes in the forthcoming US Presidential election.

The alliance has criticised President Mary McAleese for her decision to meet Mr Bush at the weekend.

A spokesman for group, Brendan Butler, said it was enough for the Taoiseach to welcome him, but for Ireland's President to join in his re-election campaign was offensive to the vast proportion of Irish people who opposed his visit.

Representatives of the Labour Party, the Green Party, Sinn Féin and the Socialist Party also attended this morning's news conference.

EU-US summit tomorrow

Mr Bush is due to arrive in Ireland tomorrow for this weekend's EU-US summit at Dromoland Castle in Co Clare.

He will leave for Ankara on Saturday before heading on to Istanbul.

Ahead of his visit to Ireland, Amnesty International has called on the Government to break the EU's silence on what it terms the ongoing breaches of human rights and humanitarian law by the US in its 'war on terror' and in Iraq.

However, speaking on RTÉ, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, John O'Donoghue, said it was not true that the EU had not voiced its criticism of Washington's Iraq policy.

Open letter from human rights group

The call by Amnesty International comes in an open letter released by the human rights group in advance of tomorrow's summit.

The letter states that it is the ideal time to confront Mr Bush with the strength of international opinion on the horrors of the detention centres in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan.

'With clear evidence of torture by US forces and no limit on how high up the chain of command responsibility lies, the EU's silence has been shameful and deafening', the letter says.

While Amnesty acknowledges that the EU expressed its concerns about the mistreatment of prisoners in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib jail last May, it says the EU has not officially or forcefully taken up the matter with the US.

Open detention facilities, US urged

The letter asks the Government to call on Mr Bush to open the doors of its detention facilities to UN and other human rights monitors.

Commenting yesterday, the Tánaiste Mary Harney said that while the US was politically and economically important for Ireland, the Government would make it clear to Mr Bush that Ireland and the EU did not agree with him on many foreign-policy issues.

Helpline number

Meanwhile, gardaí have released a helpline number regarding the Bush visit for people travelling to and from Shannon this weekend.

The main dual carriageway from Shannon to Ennis will be closed for 24 hours from 3pm tomorrow afternoon and diversions will be in place.

The helpline number is 061-717814.

by Adrian Lawler Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:58 alawler at iol dot ie 086-8213570

Would this work, a little late for the Bush visit but I think it would add a lot of irritation to the whole event.

It would involve car owners driveing as close as they can to the Shannon entrance(s) and obstructing them with their vehicles. I don't suggest we push it so far as to have the car picked up onto trucks just enough of a irritation and enough of a hold up to annoy Bush and his cavalcade siomething awful.

Is there anything worse than being stuck in a car that cannot move!

by Ed Lee Fri Jun 25, 2004 13:54

Does anyone know how the Dublin march is being organised? i.e. the march routes, events- (e.g. speeches, street parties, etc) public meetings?
Cheers

by Non SWPer Fri Jun 25, 2004 14:35

As far as I know the SWP doesnt have any plans to force people at gun point to go on the Dublin march, if people want to go to the Shannon march on Friday they can!!! Its not the SWPs fault that the majority of protestors aren't into NVDA (unfortunately!),

the AWI/Grassroots people should stop complaing about the IAWM, if peole want to go to AWI events they can, just because they don't isn't the fault of the SWP/IAWM

by Ed Lee Fri Jun 25, 2004 16:20

I've been reading up on world wide coverage on Bush's visit, most of them are saying that about 50,000 will protest in dublin while 10,000 in Shannon? Excellent....

by jeffrey allen miller - thinkandask.com Fri Jun 25, 2004 22:44 jeffrey at thinkandaskSTOPSPAM dot com

i'm glad to read a huge protest is planned for (my president) george w bush in ireland. i'm also glad your government permits such a protest... this is no longer the case in the usa. my hat off to you all, and the best of luck! stay safe. may your peaceful participation in protest show your leaders that they should think twice about shaking the hand of a dictator from the usa. cheers. jam.

by GM Sun Jun 27, 2004 13:17

they wanted to keep people in dublin? if you were at the protest you would have heard them saying that people could book a seat on a bus to go down to shannon the following day.

by Rex White Sat May 07, 2005 09:51

Until this evening I had never heard of Jeffrey Allen Miller. I happened to come across his web site "Think and Ask," so I decided to do a little research on him to establish his credibility, or in this case, his lack of the same. I consider myself a reasonable person with both liberal and conservative leanings who respects the differing opinions of other reasonable and respectful people, but I do not respect those who feel the need to distort the truth or generate hatred in order to support their point of view. This kind of behavior is especially repugnant when the comments are directed toward people who, either by choice or by circumstance, may be inclined to accept them at face value without question. I refer to Mr. Miller's blatant lies to our Irish neighbors claiming that protesting is no longer allowed by the United States government. Mr. Miller writes, “I'm glad to read a huge protest is planned for (my president) George W Bush in Ireland. I'm also glad your government permits such a protest... this is no longer the case in the USA.” Since when? Miller would have our Irish friends believe that a new law has been established outlawing protest. Of course reasonable and mature Americans know first hand that this is not the case. Lawful and peaceful protest is part of the American system and is totally legal under this president and has been under every president before him. Just because others may strongly disagree with the protester (you see, like it or not, they also have rights), or the protester is not allowed to infringe upon the rights of other citizens, that does not mean he is not allowed to voice his opinion publicly. As for Millers description of the president as a dictator, I suggest he pick up a dictionary along with a copy of the United States Constitution. The same rules, terms, and checks and balances apply to him that apply to all American presidents. They applied to Clinton, Regan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, FDR, etc………………all of them, or were they dictators too? All presidential administrations will have citizens who will disagree with their positions and actions or lack of actions and, quite often I will be amongst them, but I must say that, in my opinion, far too many of the current crop of discontents are some of the most intolerant, arrogant, hateful, untruthful, and sophomoric that I can remember in my 56 years. Shame on them and shame on Jeffrey Allen Miller.