Irish Anti-War Movement and Anti-War Ireland Plans for Bush

by Jackdaw Wed May 12, 2004 14:41

RBB seems to have lost the common touch. Life on Planet SWP must be very reassuring. See you at Shannon (not you Richard!).

by JC Wed May 12, 2004 14:47

Galway Alliance Against War (Primarily SP) are similarly calling for a march in Galway on Friday night. Don't they know where Bush is landing? Support the AWI & Ambush Friday night demo at Shannon with a night of Fire, Frivolity & Fury. All out J25!

by Joe Wed May 12, 2004 14:48

I think the idea of having a demonstration in Dublin and other cities is a good idea.

What is crazy is delibretly calling it at the same time as demonstrations are to take place in Shannon. I won't speculate on the motives of why this decision was made, they are probably all too familar.

I'd suggest that regional demonstrations including a Dublin demonstration are held the Saturday before the visit. That way they can be part of the process of getting people to Shannon rather than the reverse. And there is no real reason why they should be any smaller than a Friday night demonstration.

by Fence puller Wed May 12, 2004 14:53

National march or several regional meetings on Saturday before. Good opportunities to build for Shannon.
And after February 15th lets offer an invite to An Taoiseach to march with us so he can't take credit for being with us as he claims to have been then.
See you in Shannon. All out for J26!!

BTW - I work with people who are not political, in fact one is a 70+ year old and even they know it makes sense to head towards Shannon.
Those crazeee SWPers think they know everything but in all honesty, know fuck all.

by David Wed May 12, 2004 15:02

Demos on the week before bush's visit will achieve a huge amount if they are successful. they will put huge pressure on the politicians who intend to meet bush and they would be a platform to launch a mobilisation to Shannon.

What the S.W.P. are doing is totally counter productive and unfortunatey totally predctable.

We should expectlots of posturing and attempts to both sabbotage and claim credit for any protests at Shannon

by Anonymous Wed May 12, 2004 15:12

There is no doubt there is huge opposition to Bush in Ireland. And like F15 I believe many ordinary folk will be prepared to protest.

Therefore, whilst every effort should be made to get as many people down to Shannon as possible - I think the movement should have a dual mandate of facilitating protests for ordinary folk around the country to show their dissaproval of Bush in their own localiites.

Most ordinary folk will not be prepared to make the trip down to Shannon unlike us die hard activists.

by Fence puller Wed May 12, 2004 15:16

We all seem to be in agreement. Don't divide potential.
All together the Saturday before and all together (those who can make it) in Shannon.

I too would like to know who or what is behind the SWP. They always seem to play into the hands of the state.

by Tony G Wed May 12, 2004 15:21

The Trade Union movement should call a one-day stoppage (except transport) on the Friday to enable people to get to Shannon. They know the support is there.
Get on to your unions to get such a plan into action. Otherwise people will just have to take the initiative and institute a civilian version of the "Blue Flu". Either way, we must get as many to Shannon as possible.

by Chekov Wed May 12, 2004 15:28

Our job is to try to get as many people as possible to do the most effective thing against bush, NOT to give them something easy to do that will salve their consciences. Therefore we should be aiming to get as many people as possible as close to Bush as possible. That means trying to maximise the Shannon mobilisation. If there are simlutaneous protests in Dublin and other population centres, they will undoubtedly detract from the Shannon protests as people will think they have done their bit if they march in Dublin.

On the other hand, we can't ignore the fact that there are many people who won't be able to travel to Shannon, through timidity or practical reasons. Having a protest the week beforehand in the population centres would be a good idea for several reasons.

1) It would give the timid a chance to show their opposition in a way that would not detract from the Shannon protests.

2) It would be very useful in building the Shannon protests. The public and media would get the sense that something big is coming. The marches could be used to sell tickets, give out information and so on about the Shannon protests. The experience of being on a big march a week before the visit would also give many people courage to come down to Shannon; there is nothing more empowering than seeing that we are many and they are few.

3) It could pre-empt the sabotages of any groups that want to hold events during the visit that are designed to keep people away from Shannon, whether they be the government, the SWP or anybody else.

Most people probably thought that only the die-hard activists would make the long walk to Farmleigh in the teeth of state repression and media hysteria. In the end the vast majority of the crowd were non-activists. With Bush the argument for making the extra effort is much, much easier. We can get thousands to Shannon. That is the last thing that Bush and Bertie want.

by Anonymous Wed May 12, 2004 15:44

Very well made points Chekov. I have struggled to see how the two logistically confilicting objectives of:-

1. How to maxamixe turnout in Shannon
2. How to maxamixe public turnout all over the country

can be reconciled. But I reckon the plan you have outlined is as close as one could get to reconciling the two.

I suppose the IAWM won’t be going along with this??

See you in Shannon!!

by hmmmm Wed May 12, 2004 16:05

And, if the protests are to have any effect in America, this is all about the cameras.

The SWP and its obsession with numbers (THIS is the revolution!!) are doing great damage. Yet another march down O'Connell Street with more of the same speeches at the central bank from Kiaran Allen, Patricia McKenna and the usual crowd will be little more than political mastrubation.

In contrast, a few thousand protestors beseiging Drommond Castle could make worldwide news.

by Sashweed Wed May 12, 2004 16:35

When the Shrub came to Hillsborough what did the SWP want people to do. Go North of course. Not have a march in Dublin or Belfast. And what's more it was a week day. A work day. Bus loads went up. More from the south than the north.

And now when he is coming to these here parts, they don't want us there to meet him. Muppets. Do they work for the state?

by Eagle Wed May 12, 2004 16:46

As an anti-war activist with NO political affiliations, I must say how disappointed I am with the antics of the SWP. I remember going to Belfast when Bush met Blair, and was asked to be a steward. I politely declined such a generous offer, which was just as well since the SWP (who comprised most of the Stewarding Corps) subsequently ignored its own instructions in favour of a rather amateurish agit-prop production. At that very moment, it dawned on me that demonstrations called by SWP-dominated organisations are staged purely to satisfy the somewhat insatiable requirements of what I gather is an organisation of no more than 130 people (my bridge club has a larger membership; friendlier too). Those requirements, it has become all too apparent, have little to do with bringing an end to these warfaring times, and everything to do with securing that 131st member (though I gather that the 129th is on the verge of leaving, making this quest for increased membership something of a forlorn endeavour).

My advice to denizens of our capital city is heed not the calls of this self-serving, self-styled revolutionary sect, but decide how best to give Mr Bush the welcome he deserves. After careful consideration, I myself am in no doubt that my energies will be best channelled into the protest being held at Shannon Warport. Best of all, I’m guaranteed not to be bothered by teenage vendors of the poorly written, ill-considered and abysmally produced Social Worker (I think it’s called).

by Dominic Carroll - Cork Anti-War Campaign/Anti-War Ireland Wed May 12, 2004 17:22

The issue of the regions and the related issue of “timidity” is an important one. Recognising that only a relatively small number will be willing to travel to demonstrations in either Shannon or Dublin, that police antics at recent demos has served to put many people off protest, and that protesting itself is generally a minority sport, we in the Cork Anti-War Campaign have decided against callind a march in the city, and have instead come together with others to initiate White Ribbon Day.

Below, I include our “vision statement” on White Ribbon Day, but suffice to say that on Sunday 20th June (midsummer and the weekend before the Bush visit), White Ribbon Day in Cork will take the form of a Peace Festival (gig, picnic, entertainments, politics). On the preceding Saturday (19th June), we are calling on buskers, street actors, pavement artists, deejays, etc. to reclaim Patrick Street in Cork as part of the build-up to White Ribbon Day and the Bush visit. Needless to say, we will be encouraging those Corkonians opposed to war and Bush to wear the white ribbon.

We would hope that others around the country will take up the theme. It would be marvellous and inspiring to see events and festivals across the country, alongside the simple yet effective statement of wearing a white ribbon or flying a peace flag. We believe it could add another dimension to the anti-war/anti-Bush movement, and can involve – albeit on a less active but nevertheless critical level – many thousands of people.


White Ribbon Day: Vision Statement
White Ribbon Day has been initiated as a response to the current wars, prompted by the even more specific occasion of the proposed presence of the US President, George W. Bush, in Ireland in late June of this year. It is important, however, not to reduce the idea, or the impetus behind it, to either of these.

White Ribbon Day offers a chance to celebrate and communicate what we are for: the better world we believe is possible and which we already inhabit – albeit only in partial and fragmentary form – where and whenever we can. This is the real possibility of a dynamic, respectful and joyful world built on the integral presence, energies and entitlements of every member of the human family, convivially inhabiting a sustainable planet.

The white ribbon has been worn by countless people as a token of opposition to current warmongering; the idea here is to make it central to a positive declaration of the values and perspectives informing our opposition to war. This is not to overlook the necessity for protests and demonstrations; rather, it is a reminder of the too-often neglected positive context which alone allows all such actions and movements to “scenarios” of the corporate warmongers.

In the present conjuncture, White Ribbon Day can be a high-profile occasion in the immediate run-up to the Bush break-in (or “visit” as the mediocracy quaintly term it). It can serve as a nourishing and cheering context for those who want to do other things - such as protesting at Shannon; perhaps more crucially, it can provide an enjoyable outlet for many others to express their anger at what is happening, and their commitment to what is not (sufficiently) happening. It can also, and equally crucially, send a vital human message to our sisters and brothers in the Islamic/Arabic world and - by extension - to all those who are threatened with Western "humanitarian intervention" around the world.

by Fence puller Wed May 12, 2004 17:46

"Recognising that only a relatively small number will be willing to travel to demonstrations in either Shannon or Dublin"

I think there is a big chance that we may be in a February 15th situation here. I work in place where if I start talking about Partnership, the Nice Treaty, the EU, Immigration etc, etc, peoples eyes glaze over. Most of you probably experience the same. With the Bush visit I have people asking me what's the story and I tell you what folks, they are not asking me is there a march in Dublin. They want to know what's happening in the west.
Let's think big. Let's be clear about what we are doing. Let's learn from DGN.
All out for J26.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker & Pitstop Ploughshares Wed May 12, 2004 18:44

Yup regional rallies the weekend before building towards Friday night at Shannon sound the way to go.

Catholic Worker hopes to kick off a weekly presence at the U.S. Embassy in Dublin through June, starting on Memorial Day (may 31) as leadup to the visit.

If people are considering a Castle action on top of the Shannon unwelcome, it's gotta be the last scene of Macbeth (in the most ecologically sensitive manner possible!!!). Even a couple of hundred of hippies with the appropriate shrubbery would do the trick. Would be an historic gig at the end of Junior Bush's reign. He'll be at the right point of paranoia of Macbeth propotions by the time he he arrives.

A fallback is always the "Beat Around the Bush" (hippies with drums) thang that kept his daddy awake at the White House during the first Gulf War. Daddy Bush is due in London in the next few weeks.

by Donagh Davis - amBush2004! Wed May 12, 2004 21:23 info at ambush2004 dot org

There's no mistaking the merit of regional demos in the run-up to the Bush visit as outlined above by Chekov and others, not least for building of morale and spurring people on for the big push to Shannon during the visit itself.

I disagree that the events of Mayday on the Navan Road will have served to scare people away from confronting the state; to their chagrin, I'm sure, the cops didn't get their riot, no matter how many photos can be produced of masked-up kids getting wet. Likewise an occasional volley of empty plastic bottles does not constitute a riot.

So there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get quite a lot of people to Shannon, for the Friday and the Saturday. This shouldn't be an either/or situation, as amBush2004! is working towards providing (peace-) camping facilities for all the good folk up for it enough to make the summit protests a two-day event.

Here's an excerpt from one of our previous communiques (full text at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64583&results_offset=240 ); our plans have been revised a little since, the encirclement of Shannon being deemed impractical, but this will give a flavour.

'From our last meeting on the 18th of April we are proposing the following strategy:

We have local protests before Bush arrives – these to be directed at Top Oil, the company which re-fuels the American warplanes at Shannon, or Esso, in view of their financing of Bush’s election campaign, and as a way of highlighting the oil-profit-war axis.

We echo the call for a demonstration at Shannon airport on the night of Friday June 25th coming out of the initial Anti-War Ireland meeting.

We propose this takes the form of a ‘Hands Around Shannon’ carnival, an encirclement of the airport with candles, torches and other light bearing objects, and drums, guitars, pots, whistles and other noise making instruments, plus kites and whatever else that makes a spectacle. Our aim is that the maximum number of people come to participate in these protests.'

So see ye all then..

by Indy Thu May 13, 2004 00:00

We are unlikely to get near the airport and so what about writing something like

NO 2
WAR!

with big red canvas sheets that he will see from the helicopter as he flies over them to go to his castle. This also will be seen by other reporters from the air.

This also saves the need to be near the airport and is much more visible in its own way!

by nerdy freak Thu May 13, 2004 00:52

use it to mark out words in big huge letters at corners - outline with string - fill with protesters with candles and jamjars flashlights whatever in case it's bad out and bingo - participatory spectacle with climbing over ditches and drains on top - and a message to the pilot at least

by john paul - swp-cork Thu May 13, 2004 02:12

for the simple reason that people have work and the like as it is a weekday,it makes sense to have a demo in Cork on the friday night and attract maybe a good few hundred at daunt sq. and then go up on the saturday as opposed to your plan of going up on the friday mr. Carroll as i suspect the only people going up then shall be the usual suspects...

by David Thu May 13, 2004 02:45

Just a suggestion, but as there are already plans for some kind of international peace camp to be set up around shannon, why not include this in a national day of action the week before?

How about if we had demos in cork, dublin, limerick, belfast galway, waterford kilkenny etc on saturday afternoon, and afterwards we start a procession directly to shannon launched by the demos, like a goodbye party, buses, cars, trains etc from all around the country meeting up on that one evening at a camp area. Symbolically it would be fantastic, organisationally it would be great and as part of a media event i think it could really work.

of course the people who arrived on saturday for the camp wouldn't have to stay for the whole week if they couldn't and people could join them whenever they wanted during the week until hopefully we would have something really big on our hands.

It would also give people another reason to come out and march the week before

by Cork Anti-War Campaign member Thu May 13, 2004 03:19

Dunno who this John Paul of Cork SWP is because he has never been along to meetings of the Cork Anti-War Campaign. If he had he would know that Cork anti-war activists have long since decided to go to Shannon and support the Anti-War Ireland demo. We are also organising the event mentioned by Dominic above for the previous weekend, and that will allow large numbers of Cork people to indicate their opposition to Bush's visit.

Frankly, it is clear that the SWP are just acting like wreckers. They hate to see their plaything, the IAWM, crumble and be exposed as a front, and rather than examine the reasons for people's dissatisfaction they are striking out wildly at their perceived enemies (i.e. non-SWP anti-war activists!!). Much of their behaviour could accurately be described as neurotic. Why are they so intent on undermining the demo at Shannon? Because it is an Anti-War Ireland event and they want it to fail. That's how bitter and twisted the attitude of some (not all, by any means) of their members (including leading figures) has become. If they can't control or run it, they want to wreck it. It's disgraceful behaviour from any organisation that describes itself as progressive and socialist, and your average anti-war activist is fed up of this negativity.

Anti-War Ireland has the confidence of the anti-war movement in Cork; the IAWM does not. The calling of 'regional' demonstrations is a tactical mistake and shows very poor judgement by the IAWM/SWP.

It would be so nice if we could all just find some way of working together. Why do the SWP/IAWM feel the need to be so destructive? Neither the Cork Anti-War Campaign nor Anti-War Ireland (as far as I know) were consulted prior to this inane call for regional demonstrations at the same time as the Shannon demo. And yet, they expect one to be called in Cork! We'll have one alright, but on the previous weekend, as part of the build-up to the demo at Shannon.

Shannon is the place to be on the Friday night because that is where the warmonger Bush will be and it is also the petrol pump for Bush's killers as they pass through Ireland. No to Bush, and no to Irish complicity!

by Donagh Davis - amBush2004! Thu May 13, 2004 03:32 info at ambush2004 dot org

Regarding your suggestion for nationwide convergence on the peace camp the saturday before the summit, David, it's a cool idea, but personally I'm not sure how practical it would be.

I would love to have a peace camp up and running a good week before the summit for people to come and stay at at their leisure, but I'm doubtful it will be possible to have a camp established more than a few days before the crucial weekend, for purely logistical reasons. Unless a load of people with largescale camping experience, muchos transport and bags of money volunteer their services for the effort, like now! That would be very welcome.

by john paul - swp Thu May 13, 2004 04:36

im not trying to be deliberately mischievous or anything,all im saying is on the friday evening more people would turn out at daunt sq. then travel up to shannon,chances are the national media build up will emphasise the regional protests on the friday night with the national demo at shannon on the saturday so people(and by people i mean the general public & not the usual suspects i refer to like the membership of the cawc)will be expecting some sort of demo in cork city on the night in question just like there will be in dublin,galway and elsewhere,so in my opinion there should be one.

with regards the swp,get over yourself man,the party isnt out to sabotage or wreck the cawc and im not out to make enemies,you & i both oppose bush visiting and thats good but tone down the old anti-swp sentiment,i believe im making a valid point and if i had'nt mentioned my political affiliation i imagine you would have responded in a more polite manner,ah well cest la vie....

by Dominic Carroll - Cork Anti-War Campaign (personal capacity) Thu May 13, 2004 10:29

If John Paul had any actual involvement with anti-war groups in Cork, he might have a better handle on the situation rather than simply parroting the line from SWP headquarters (he might even have come along to one of the several anti-war protests held in the city recently). May I suggest, John Paul, that you first involve yourself in the Cork Anti-War Campaign before you make your suggestions as to which work WE should engage in. Or do you now intend to throw yourself into building the regional demo?

by David Thu May 13, 2004 12:04

Re: peace camp, I suppose the people who are already active in the campaign have done work on the costs and organisation needed for a peace camp so i'll accept what was said. I mainly wanted to throw out the idea to see if it might be accepted.
I can't really imagine how much expenses the camp could incur, my imagination sees a primitive camp without any real facilities (marquees, chemical toilets etc) and this could be run just as cheaply for 3 days as for 6 days.
Logistically it would of course all depend on there being people willing to organise it and a critical mass of individuals willing to stay at such a camp. I would be optomistic that numbers could be high especially if it was tied into the organisation of traditional demonstratins.

On the SWP, do they still feel its valuable to focus all their energy on mobilising people who are only barely interested enough to step outside their own front door?
If people aren't prepared to make the journey to Shannon (if they are available to do so) then they wouldn't be much use in a revolutionary situation.
Instead of aiming to mobilise 100,000 people for one day, why not try to empower 10,000 oeople who will feel strongly enough to get active.

Except that the SWP doesn't really want to empower people to do anything other than vote for their candidates in elections of the fiuture.

by Egret Thu May 13, 2004 16:37

We all know about SWP tom-foolery, but where does the Socialist Party stand on the Bush visit? Does it support the AWI demo at Shannon on Friday night? Come on Stephen Boyd, I know you read Indymedia. Let's hear it, please.

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 16:54

It seems very straight forward to me, if you can go to shannon go to shannon, although some may say just going to dublin is just "something easy to do that will salve their consciences" (checkov your replacing the swp for rrr-revolution :- ) ), for many it just ain't possible to go to shannon, work family etc. So if you can't go to shannon go to dublin. I don't see why the irish left has so many problems with having more than one demo. So again first if possible shannon, (obviously if you live nearer there) and if not dublin.

by Ray Thu May 13, 2004 16:58

Why is the IAWM holding their Dublin demo on the same day as the AWI's Shannon demo? Why can't the Dublin demo be the week before?

by Sashweed Thu May 13, 2004 17:15

When the Shrub came to NI the SWP/IAWM went there. No march in Dublin or elsewhere.
If we send mixed messages, we risk the chance of making a pigs ear of a good demo. The thing is that we can make Shannon big. I'm bored saying it but one more time - I know people who aren't into protesting and they want to go West to bring the noise to where the evildoer is.
We can have a national march or regional march the week before and build for Shannon.
All out for J26!!!

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 17:18

i've no idea ray, but my point was that shannon and dublin are far enough apart to justify two protests. As there are many in dublin who wouldn't go to shannon but would go to a march in dublin. Therefore as I said those who can make it should go to shannn to bolster numbers and those (in dublin or around) who can't should protest in Dublin. I still don't see what the problem with this is apart from some sort of lefty prestige thing. Speaking as an outsider it seems pretty simple to me.

by Ray Thu May 13, 2004 17:26

Is the more important thing to demonstrate in Shannon, where Bush will actually be, or in Dublin, where the numbers will be bigger? The IAWM - the SWP and SP - have decided that its better to have people marching up and down O'Connell Street for the millionth time than to get people to Shannon, where there is at least the possibility of doing something more.
Sure, not everybody will be able to get to Shannon for a demonstration. But there's no reason to have the two protests _at the same time_. If the Dublin demo was the week before, then at least some of those in Dublin would _also_ be able to go to Shannon. As it is, the IAWM is doing everything possible to reduce the turnout at Shannon. Yet again.
There is no excuse for this shit. Its putting party-building before politics, pure and simple.

by Terence Thu May 13, 2004 17:31

Ray, yes there shoudl be a demo in Shannon and that is what the IAWM are organising. But there shoudl also be a protest in Dublin. Bush is a hate figure and there will the thousends and thousends of people in the Dublin area that wish to show their opposition to hi and his visti to Ireland. Only a minority of these people will be prepared to make the treck to Shannon, this is the reality! Therefore I think it is the correct thing to organise a protest in Dublin on the Friday night so people can show their anger in their tens of thousends.

Surely can you not see that 100,000 people inDublin protesting agianst the visit is more effective than JUST the usual 5,000 in Shannon.

by Middle-class+comfortable watcher Thu May 13, 2004 17:31

"It would give the TIMID a chance to show their opposition in a way that would not detract from the Shannon protests."
(chekov re: dublin demo)
Sorry I forgot Checkov your a real hard man!

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 17:34

Personally if I was there i'd probably go to shannon, its obviously much more important. But again while you will get many dedicated activists and possibly many more there will still be alot only prepared to march in dublin (dubliners that is), seems ridiculas to me not to have a march in dublin. As for having it a week before, what's the point?
You could argue its party building but to me listening from far away someway saying you can ONLY protest in shannon, is just as bad as saying you can only protest in dublin.
The grassroots has added some wonderful diversity to the irish left, but diversity is diversity, those who want to protest in dublin shouldn't be lectured for it.

by matcho Thu May 13, 2004 17:38

Of course Chekov Feeney is a real 'hard man' who is single handidly taking on the state while everyone who is not is a coward. You're a fool. You are not brave. It is not bravery to stand down at some fence face to face with a cop in a field 3 miles from a west of Ireland Airport!

by Joe Thu May 13, 2004 17:42

The suggestion is that it is stupid to have protests in Shannon and the MAIN Dublin one at the same time. Far smarter to have the MAIN Dublin one the week beforehand so everyone can build for numbers on that then to force people to choose between the two venues. I've nothing against people who can't make Shannon protesting in Dublin that night and the following morning but that is not what is under discussion here.

by Italian jobber Thu May 13, 2004 17:43

At this march on the Friday I would like to suggest the following speakers:

MC Richard Boyd Barrett (IAWM)
Patricia McKenna MEP (Green Party)
Rory Ahearne (AFIP)
Mick O'Reilly (Trade Unionist)
Kieran Allen (SWP)
Joe Higgins TD (SP)
Brid Smith (Bin Tax Campaigner against the war)
Michael D. Higgins TD (Lab)
Eamon McCann (SEA)
Owen McCormack (Busworker against the war)
Tomas Magiolla (WP)
Kevin Wingfield (Teletubby against the war)
Roger Cole (PANA)
Dave Lordan (Marty Feldmans fan club against the war)

Hope its original enough!!
ZZZzzzzz

by Ray Thu May 13, 2004 17:43

"Therefore I think it is the correct thing to organise a protest in Dublin on the Friday night so people can show their anger in their tens of thousends."

Bush is not going to be in Dublin on Friday, he's going to be in Shannon. If you can organise a protest hundreds of miles away from the person you're protesting against, why can't you also organise that protest six days early?

"Surely can you not see that 100,000 people inDublin protesting agianst the visit is more effective than JUST the usual 5,000 in Shannon."

First off, no way in hell will there be 100,000 people there. Its not going to happen.

Secondly, why do you think a larger Dublin demo would be more effective than a more active Shannon protest? Is there any doubt that Bush is disliked in Ireland? None at all. So a protest that just says "we don't like Bush" is adding nothing new to the landscape.
On the other hand, a protest that says "We don't like Bush, and we're serious enough about this that we're going to disrupt his visit", a protest that says "Here are the people of Ireland, and there are the water cannon, riot cops, dogs, and other gardai that have to be drafted in to keep us away from Bush", is much more effective. Even if there aren't as many people there.

But the point is this. Its only because of the IAWM's sectarianism that we have to make these contrasts. If they held their Dublin march a week earlier, then people could go to _both_ Dublin and Shannon demos. They are actively sabotaging the movement, by splitting the movement unnecessarily. And these are the people who said last week that "in the fight against state power we have to be collective"!

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 17:52

Sorry joe, I thought I thought that was excatly what the argument was about. Maybe I picked it up wrong or maybe it's the tone of the debate. But thats how it sounded to me.
I hear anarchists saying that the swp and sp are tratiors for organising a demo in dublin while grassroots are organising a demo in shannon. Why not a week before? Why not a month before a day before. Seems straightforward to me. Look I'm not attacking the grassroots, I was home lat weekend and everybody including all my absolutely non political friends were talking about the grassroots mayday event, (no one mentioned the carnival!) and everyone was supportive of it. (even if they slagged off the wombles) I see the grassroots as a very positive development. But like I said diversity means diversity, and that includes people (like me) who have other opinions. For me I don't belive at in "extra parlimentarism" and I belive we should try to get a mass movement. But again like I said first shannon if you can't make that dublin.

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 17:58

got to go but quickly, I think shannons a good idea, but the argument no one can organise a demo that day because the grassroots have organised a demo on the same day sounds suspisiously dare I say it "leninist".
When the sp were against the direct action I wrote here I believed they were wrong, but at the same time when grassroots or wsm start saying they decide where and when we march i'll argue against that too.
Hopefully there will be a big enough turnout in shnnon and also a big turnout in dublin. At the same time seems absoloutely fine to me. Best of luck to everyone on both actions.
now i'm late for work!

by Joe Thu May 13, 2004 18:00

HS

1. where does anyone use the term "tratiors"
2. It's not grassroots that are organising either of the Shannon demos. Some of those involved in organising them have also been at gatherings others have not. The GG won't have a chance to adopt any position on this as we have no gathering before this date although local groups like DGN may well as we do on the 22nd.
3. The line you are putting forward ('first Shannon') is one I'd agree with. Unfortuantely its not the line of the SWP/SP/IAWM. Which is where the problem and this argument arises.
4. I agree that diversity doesn't just mean diversity for more militant forms of protest but also diversity for more safe forms. Unfortunatly not everyone on my side of the fence is always very clear about this.

I'd be very happy to see 100,000 demonstrate in Dublin followed by 20,000 at Shannon as I suspect would everyone else on this thread. Logically NOT having two main events at the same time at opposite sides of the country would help rather than hinder both of these figures. This isn't rocket science.

ps Please do something about the trolls.

by Ray Thu May 13, 2004 18:02

First, the Shannon protests are being organised by Anti War Ireland (and maybe AmBush?), not Grassroots.
Second, having a demonstration a month before Bush's visit would obviously be pointless. But the visit will be all over the news a week before, so you'd get as many people to a Dublin protest on the 18th as to a protest on the 25th. You'd probably get more, because the people going to Shannon would go too. If the goal is maximising numbers, then the 18th is just as good.
The whole point of the Shannon protest is that it will be held _where Bush is_. So it has to be that day, and it has to be that time. The Dublin protest can effectively be held any time.
Would the SP applaud the added diversity of SWP candidates in SP constituencies? Of course not. They've argued that if the Dublin constituencies are divided up, then both parties will benefit, and everybody will get to vote for a socialist.
If the IAWM moved their demonstration to the weekend before, then both AWI and IAWM protests would be bigger, and everybody would be able to go to a protest. There's absolutely no reason for a clash, and since the AWI can't move, the IAWM should.

by red rooster Thu May 13, 2004 18:31

and I don't buy Joes line about having things on same day will reduce numbers - one big day and everyone will want to be involved in whatever way they can - on their street - in dublin - galway shannon cork belfast etc - let people decide - don't treat them/us like sheep because we're / they're not - people will want to protest when bush is here or at least on the right weekend - this makes sense to me. All the other arguments come across as groups wanting the sheeple to have no choice but their choice

by Ram Thu May 13, 2004 18:35

That's rich. The SWP/IAWM have already decided and we should all follow.

Nonsense. Another example of a complete lack of ambition. All out in Shannon J26!!!

by red rooster Thu May 13, 2004 18:38

AMBUSH and IAWM have decided. Have the groups been in touch or should us sheeple just stay out of it?

by David Thu May 13, 2004 18:40

If protests take place at the same time then the media focus will almost certainly be on the more "dramatic" elements at shannon and the march in dublin would be ignored (like what happened to the carnival at mayday) (unless they get massive figures, but that is by no means assured).

If there were regional demonstrations the week before then the media's attention would not be divided. Such a show of public opinion before Bush's planned visit would make it impossible for Bertie to announce that he is acting under any mandate by meeting this man (won't stop him pretending though).

The benefits of this strategy for the anti-war and anti capitalism movements would be huge, while the costs of doing it the SWP's way could be terrible (in terms of another wasted opportunity)


It is also worth noting that the SWP have already announced their plans for Bush's visit to the media. It has been in the news headlines on newstalk radio and their plan is the friday night dublin demo followed by a tokenistic trip tp dromoland and a march(!!) to Shannon airport (it's about 8 miles away!)

Calling these 'plans' is a gross overstatement in my opinion.

by SWP member - personal capacity Thu May 13, 2004 18:47

Why shoudl the SWP/IAWM have to consult with the DGN. The DGN are an insignificant group that are completely unable to mobilise decent numbers for their demos.

Every single SWP/IAWM/AEIP demo has been bigger than the DGN demos. Remember May Day, 3,000 on the AEIP demo about 40 on the DGN one. March 1st about 100 DGN and 1,500 IAWM

by Phuq Hedd Thu May 13, 2004 18:54

QUOTE: "Why shoudl the SWP/IAWM have to consult with the DGN."
ANSWER: They don't _have_ to, but they should, for the same reason that the DGN or AWI or SP or SF or Gluaiseacht or whoever should consult with anyone else: to maximise the effect of their actions by co-operating where they can. You know that "unity" word that gets thrown around a lot? Well there's different ways of achieving unity. One of them is by doing different things but doing them so that they help each other where possible. In this case the Shannon Protests require being in Shannon _on the day_.

QUOTE: "The DGN are an insignificant group that are completely unable to mobilise decent numbers for their demos."
ANSWER: Go away troll. The grown-ups are having a discussion here and your pert little cuteisms are just irritating.

by david Thu May 13, 2004 18:59

jayses, you should be more careful, you're not allowed to reveal the secret that the swp/iawm are actually the same group! you'll get in trouble, they'll probably double the number of newspapers you're required to sell for this.

by Me Thu May 13, 2004 19:03

Don't reckon SWP member is what he says. I bet its the leading member of the SP who frequents this site. Reknowed shit stirrer that he is.

by Frank Bear Thu May 13, 2004 20:44 respect at priest dot com

The "about us" for indymedia.ie says you're about "radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth."

Well, let's see.

First, "truth" is not radical. If it IS truth, it is only radical to those who oppose it. Or, someone invents a statement designed to promote a personal agenda and CALLS it truth; then that indeed could be radical - but not the truth at all.

Second, "accurate" from what I've read here so far, amounts to little more than what someone "agrees with." If you like it, then it's accurate. That one is too deep to wade into.

Third, "passionate tellings" should more "truthfully" read "inflammatory tellings." Generating anger, promoting outright hatred and continuing to rip the scabs off of old wounds so they will never be allowed to heal, has nothing to do with real and constructive "passion;" much less, anything to do with building a better world.

"Inflammatory tellings" serve only to destroy the part of the world that you don't like; along with the innocent people that were living there. That's the same type of thinking promoted by the Nazis and the KKK. Surely you can do better than that.

Do you really want truth and passion? Try going to see "The Passion of the Christ" and spending the next week (or year) in prayer asking God to help you to forgive your enemies.

After that? You might try studying the life of Mother Theresa of Calcutta and then "go thou and do likewise" in your country.

Anyone can throw a match into a building, start a fire and draw a crowd. But when it's all over, they leave nothing behind but ashes.

Have the courage to put your version of truth to the test by measuring it against the REAL truth, the person, the life and the teachings of Jesus Christ. (sorry atheists, I guess you'll be inflamed by my "passionate telling") Then ask God to focus your passion by serving others; not merely to stop others from serving. By seeking to build, not just to stop others from building. "Lord, make me an instrument of your peace."

You've only got one life. Get it right. And yes, there will be a test afterwards.

I wish you all the best.

by David Thu May 13, 2004 21:13

You don't really want to get into a philosophical debate into the nature of truth. Such questions have been asked for thousands of years without ever reaching a universally acceptable conclusion.

Indymedia is a resource for news reporting by people who believe what they are saying is the truth. It is not a paid medium where an editor tells somebody to go and get an angle or where a report is manipulated by sub-editors to fit into a prescribed spin.

Most of the people here say things that they believe are true (when they don't it's usually pretty obvious) and the reader gets access to conflicting points of view so that he/she can make up her/his own mind as to which version of events to accept.

There may never have been an entirely objective reportage of the naked facts in the history of human communication, so assaulting indymedia for not living up to some impossible standards of truth is frankly hypocritical and at best useless

by Hawk Thu May 13, 2004 21:26

There’s a guy on this thread calling himself HS of SP. He can’t really be one of yours since he’s proclaimed his opposition to “extra parliamentarianism” (nice try, troll). So can we have it from the horse’s mouth – does the Socialist Party support the AWI protest at Shannon on Friday 25th June? I hope you do.

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 21:55

JOE

The term about tratiors is the general gist of the argument. Read back over it all and see if it's friendly, the truth about the irish left is the anarchists think the swp and sp are raging leninists dying to build gulags (or sell out reformists) while the SP think anarchists and grassroots are a bunch of middle class wankers, and this seems to be the basis of every argument on indymedia. (the swp i don't understand) And both sides spend more time point scoring than anything else. And someone every once in a while should try and write without the partisan stuff. I've yet to hear an anarchist disagree with the "party line" either! (and yes there is one)

I don't think having two protests is that much of a problem, because the SP won't go to an anarchist protest in force (unfortunately) and vice versa. Look at may day,
I think that people living nearer shannon will go there and people in dublin who can go to that will too. As for the iawm not agreeing with the shannon organisers, it's just as easy to say the shannon organisers don't agree with IAWM. Just depends on your point of view. (party lines again)

On the third point we are in agreement and people can think for themselves too and go to whichever protest they want. the iawm will organise dublin and Anti war Ireland shannon. It shouldn't be a competition. it really does seem completly natural to me to do this. I don't think in any other country in the world people would be arguing there can only be one protest.

I can't do anything about the trolls I'm not an editor. And i've as much control over trolls on my side as you on the anarchist side.

RAY

I don't think so, i think you'd get more out on the day of the visit than a week before. But nothing at all wrong with organising protests before.

"Would the SP applaud the added diversity of SWP candidates in SP constituencies? Of course not. They've argued that if the Dublin constituencies are divided up, then both parties will benefit, and everybody will get to vote for a socialist. "

Absolutely true, but dublin and shannon are not the same constituencies. I personally know people prepared to go to a protest in Dublin who won't go to shannon (and not because the SP told them).

"If the IAWM moved their demonstration to the weekend before, then both AWI and IAWM protests would be bigger, and everybody would be able to go to a protest. There's absolutely no reason for a clash, and since the AWI can't move, the IAWM should."

Possibly but I really and truely believe Ireland isn't so small that there couldn't be two protests at oppisite ends at the same time. Really I don't.

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 22:03

sorry if I used jargon, when i said extra parlimentariasm i meant it in the sense that parties or groups refuse to ever take part in elections or stand candidates. Its the italian meaning of the word. Groups such as the wsm I would call extra parlimentary. When I said I am against extra parlimenatriasm I meant I think we should while involving ourselves in protest action etc also be prepared to stand in elections as a voice for socialist ideals, while refusing to take part in right wing gov.
Obviously the SP takes part in elections and has one TD and two cllrs.
But my fault for using lefty jargon, promise not to do it again (or at least try : ) )

by hs - sp Thu May 13, 2004 22:14

I am not a spokesperson for the SP, am not giving out the official line and to make matters worse haven't lived in ireland for four years, so really i'm just giving my own uninformed personal opinion. And I could always be wrong. But I am a member of the SP and CWI. (personal capacity!!!) .
But to answer your question the SP is in the IAWM. at least last time I looked.

by stating the obvious Thu May 13, 2004 23:24

SWP is basically a British party. they take their cues fom London HQ. Bush in "NI/UK" go to Belfast. Bush in Ireland stay in Dublin.

by Mary Fri May 14, 2004 05:23

George W. Bush is arriving at Shannon airport.

The US war machine is being facilitated at Shannon airport.

1 + 1 = 2

Protest at Shannon airport.

The IAWM/SWP have lost the plot, so just ignore them. Support the Anti-War Ireland demo at Shannon. Apart from every other obvious reason, the world's media will be in County Clare chasing the Bush roadshow, and not in Dublin.

by Ray Fri May 14, 2004 10:14

This has been pointed out three or four times already. The Shannon protest is being organised by Anti War Ireland. There are some anarchists in AWI all right, but its not like the Grassroots network. AWI is basically made up of those people that use to be in the IAWM, but got sick of the SWP's lack of respect for democracy.

"I don't think having two protests is that much of a problem, because the SP won't go to an anarchist protest in force (unfortunately) and vice versa."

Its not an anarchist demo.
There were loads of anarchists on the F15 protest last year.

"the iawm will organise dublin and Anti war Ireland shannon. It shouldn't be a competition."

Look, its very simple. The AWI _can't_ have their demo at any other time. The whole point of the demo is that it be where Bush is. The IAWM don't have that constraint. They don't have to be where Bush is, so it doesn't have to be that day either. The fact of the matter is that there are people (like me) who would go to both if they could. But we can't, so the demos ARE competing.

Of course, there are some people who won't go to Shannon, or who won't go to Dublin. But there are many, many more who would go to both. And so, even though there can be two demonstrations on the same day, those demonstrations would be BIGGER if they were on DIFFERENT days. This is not exactly rocket science.

The IAWM have the time and the opportunity to move their demonstration, so that it complements the AWI demo, instead of competing with it. The AWI don't have that opportunity. You are in the SP. The SP is in the IAWM. Do you want to maximise turnout on both days, or do you want to split the anti-war movement? What are you going to do?

by ucd Fri May 14, 2004 12:43

You wonder why the left get nowhere, its because there is small ineffective groups. The IAWM is probably going to be the largest demos, it would be allot better if we all work together against the bush visit.

Indy media with all these anti war groups is starting to sound more like, the peoples' front of Judea, the Peoples' Judean Front, the Peoples' Popular Front of Judea. It's really bad when the left start sounding and looking like a Mounthy Python Sketch.

by Joe Fri May 14, 2004 12:50

The left in Ireland is indeed going through a painful process right now. But look on it as losing our baby teeth, its gotta happen for the proper teeth to develop. Trying to glue em back in won't work and in any case is the wrong way to go.

by dunk Fri May 14, 2004 13:04

is it time for us to start acting the bollix?
that way it wont be just above mentioned python sounding groups, it will be them and all others.
out enjoying themselves- having fun, acting the bollix, while challenging the unfair sytems in todays world.

everyone likes a good party

example:
berlin 1989- 150 peolpe get together and have a protest FOR tolerance, understanding and respect between nations.
1999- 1.5 million people dancing on the streets of berlin, and it rocked

less moaning
more creativity

gaudi
gaudi
gaudi

by David Fri May 14, 2004 13:09

It's arguable that what we should be focusing on is building networks of smaller autonomous groups who can act independently and co-operatively depending on circumstances.

by Mark Thomas Sat May 15, 2004 13:57

If the SWP had any credibility (which it doesn't) it would have lost it on this one. And they must know it. Not all of their leaders are complete morons, and yet they act exactly as if they were. Why? Why do they actively sabotage the Shannon action? Why do they want to do GW Bush a favour? Why do they always play in the state's hands? Who pays them to do the dirty work?

They are a dead party, maybe one day, after they disappear, someone will write the real story of the SWP: who was really behind it.

by Sinéad Ní Bhroin - IAWM Sun May 30, 2004 17:43 sineadnibhroin at eircom dot net

I have just read Dominic Carroll’s article of May 12th and as a Green Party member who sits on both the IAWM & Stop Bush Campaign committees I would like to comment on the following.

The Stop Bush Campaign is actively made up of a number of political party’s & NGO Groups including PANA & the NGO Peace Alliance. As someone who actually attends these meeting I can tell you that the committee is driven by all its members and not by a single party as suggested in the article.

Our protest at Shannon is not an after thought; it is part of our overall plan for Bush’s visit. The IAWM is a mass movement and as such Dublin is the obvious location for a large protest, and yes we do want a large protest. This is the purpose of the protest in Dublin and also regional ones that will take place throughout the country. As we are a mass movement we need to factor in that getting to a location easily is important to many who want to protest but are not activists.

That said we believe that all protests are relevant and of equal importance.

To say that the IAWM is trying to 'undermine' the AWI is simply untrue as we are actively trying to co-ordinate the protests at Shannon.

The personalising of comments made by an IAWM member who is working (extremely hard) to the same goal as AWI is unhelpful. It is negative and does a lot of harm to the work and common objectives we are all working to.

As with every grouping of peoples there are times when these groups cannot agree. That's life! AWI now has it's own group. Why then is there further need for conflict? We respect AWI decision to focus attention solely on Shannon, why would they not afford the same to IAWM? I would argue that in fact it has all worked out quite well. There will be demonstrations against Bush's visit throughout the country on the 25th & 26th of June. Surely this is what we want. It is worth noting that we are not just objecting to Bush we are also objecting to the fact our Government is welcoming him and his administration to our country against the majorities wishes.

It is a shame that our anti war movement as a whole and in turn all our demonstrations planned for the 25th / 26th have been muddied by petty bitching and competing for numbers as presented in the article.

IAWM & AWI have a common purpose, we are ANTI WAR. Can we remember that and focus our energies and time on ANTI WAR activites rather than having a dig? Both groups have an equal role to play, we at the IAWM certainly acknowledge that.

by David Sun May 30, 2004 19:43

Why don't the IAWM co-operate with AWI and the Grassroots in having regional demonstrations on the WEEK BEFORE Bush arrives and allow the focus to be firmly on Clare where the meetings will actually be taking place?

The benefits of this are huge for the entire movement instead of splitting numbers in completely different parts of the country.

The AWI and GG i'm sure would have no problem with the IAWM having seperate demos in Shannon or even in Dublin the week before if that is what you prefer but it makes no sense to confuse and distract attention away from Shannon.

by Sinead Ni Bhroin - iawm Mon May 31, 2004 00:33 sineadnibhroin at eircom dot net

Hi David,

I do not accept that we 'are not cooperating' with any group.

The Stop Bush Campaign has decided on mass protests throughout the country, Dublin being the main one, on Friday evening. We will then travel to Dromoland and in turn Shannon on the Saturday morning to protest as Bush is leaving the country.

Half of the country lives in Dublin. To expect those who wish to protest, most of which are not activists or affiliated to any anti war group, to travel to Shannon is simply not realistic.

The IAWM are a mass movement and as such we need to facilitate the masses, hence our approach to the protests.

I do not accept we are splitting numbers. I believe we are facilitating numbers and because of this all efforts from all groups will be enhanced.

There will be plenty of activity around Shannon on Friday & Saturday, so I don't agree that attention will be distracted from it.

Yes there are different approaches to the demonstrations around Bush’s visit between AWI and IAWM/SBC but again I have to say I believe these different approaches will compliment each other, not cause a difficulty.

We need to put serious pressure on our Government regarding the continual use of Shannon by US military. I believe this can be better achieved by mass protests throughout the whole country that facilitates everyone rather than a single protest in a single location that is a 5-hour journey from where half the country lives.

It is obvious to us all that there are differing views on how to approach this one but I think we all need to focus our energies to the task at hand rather than squabbling about who does what where.

I hope the above makes sense & that you now have a better understanding of where we are coming from.

Many thanks, Sinéad.

by Jed Mon May 31, 2004 02:55

You are a fool. Do you really thinkit makes sense to have demos in Tralee, Limerick, Galway while Bush is a few miles away at Shannon. Do you think any of these places is, ahem, "five hours" from Shannon? Do you think everybody lives in Dublin?

And, btw, you are the dupe that allows the SWP to pretend that the IAWM is broad-based. They brag about you -"We have a Green on the committee!" - but they shafted the last Green (Tim Hourigan) when he wouldn't go along with their view of the world.

The IAWM a "mass movement"? Get real! It has about a dozen or two dozen active members in Dublin, most of whom (except for one or two willing duopes like you) are SWP members.

Get your head out of the clouds, stop listening to the flattery, and grow up. People like you are periodically wheeled out by the SWP to give themselves cover. Unfortunately you don't seem to have a clue about what has gone on in the IAWMover the past year or two. Try meeting some of the AWI people and judge for yourself what they're about. The AWI contains most of the best-known anti-war activists in this country: Tim Hourigan, Ed Horgan, Fintan Lane, Caoimhe Butterly, Harry Browne, etc., etc. etc.

by Sinéad Ní Bhroin - iawm Mon May 31, 2004 13:53 sineadnibhroin at eircom dot net

First of all Jed, I really take umbrage with the insults. If you want to voice an opinion, that’s not a problem, I am happy to agree to disagree but don’t insult me. The purpose of discussion boards is to discuss. If you insist on being offensive levelheaded people who actually have something to contribute will just disengage from you.

OK… in relation to locations and demonstrations. For you to suggest that a demonstration should not be held in the capital city of where half the country lives is astonishing. That you also think it is acceptable to ask ordinary people who have jobs and kids to even have to drive an hour to Shannon rather than protest in their home town / city is not realistic. This is not about competing for numbers; this is about facilitating people to exercise their right to peaceful protest. Those who live near Shannon will no doubt protest at Shannon, which is fantastic.

As for the dupe comment etc, you know I could waste my time on that one but I won’t. People within groups fall out all the time. The Irish anti war movement, as a whole is too important to get embroiled in petty squabbling, I just refuse to engage with you on that one.

The IAWM is a mass movement however it may choke you to recognise that.

I am painfully aware of all the drama from the last year or so Jed and as a GROWN-UP I have decided to move on. AWI have set up their own group with people they feel they can better work with. That's it, line drawn in the sand as far as I'm concerned.

I have not questioned AWI or indeed the integrity of the people you have listed below, I have buckets of respect for all of them and indeed AWI. I have not questioned ‘what they are about’; so I don’t know what your point is there.

I note the level of bitching that goes on within the anti war movement on Indymedia & I am not going to be part of it. So if you post something that is offensive to me or just a rant with no solution in mind I am telling you in advance I am not going to respond.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

by David Mon May 31, 2004 13:54

The best time to oppose Bush's visit is Before he arrives. Having very large demonstrations on the week before would have a massive impact on the media coverage of the event and put huge political pressure on out Government.

Having Large numbers in Dublin on the friday will have no impact at all except to discourage people from making the effort to travel to shannon.
People need to make the effort. If they cna't travel oon that weekend then they can march the week before. It alienates Nobody and it helps build the movement rather than tear it apart.

It will be much harder to mobilise people to shannon if you're considering leaving dublin at 5 or 6 in the morning. (most public transport services in Dublin wouldn't be operating at that time of the morning, How are people supposed to get to the assembly points?) I cannot see how your strategy will mobilise any significant number of people to Shannon compared to a weekend of focused protest on Shannon or Dromoland with places organised for people to stay in the area overnight.

by Sinéad Ní Bhroin Tue Jun 01, 2004 00:34

Hey David,

I don’t wish to sound difficult but… I have taken the time already to explain to you where we are coming from in my postings below. I don’t know what else I can say to make it any clearer to you.

I disagree that having large numbers in Dublin & throughout the country including Shannon on the 25th will have no impact , I would argue that you will lose the momentum around the weekend of the 25th/26th by having protests a full week before hand. But as always I am happy to agree to disagree on that one.

I hear what you are saying in relation to people making the effort but your expectation of people’s activism is based on your own commitment to this cause. The latter is a mistake. My Grandparents, my parents, my son, many of my friends are very much against Bush’s visit/continued occupation of Iraq/dehumanising of Iraq prisoners by US military but other than attending marches they do not partake in any other organised form of activism, and they certainly would not travel 5 hours to Shannon to protest on a Friday night, & I don’t believe you and I should expect them to do so.

I do not accept that any grouping is being alienated nor that the movement is being ‘spilt apart’ by IAWM or AWI decisions regarding Friday night. Again, I believe it all works out very well and that each approach compliments the other very nicely.

This is going to be my last posting on this one David. I really feel something about the glass half empty and you’re either with or against us tone regarding the demonstrations. I find the persistent bitching by some contributors really petty and very depressing, although this comment is naturally not directed at you.

I’m looking forward to demonstrating in Dublin & Shannon and I wish you all the best for the weekend. Wait till you see, it will all be a fantastic success and everyone will wonder what all the back biting was about!

Enjoy the rest of your week.

Sinéad.