Torture in Iraqi prisons sanctioned by CIA

by Pamela Sun May 02, 2004 11:25

Had Lynndie England passed through Shannon, as a guest of our nation, on her way to liberate Iraqi citizens from their underwear? Can this information be discovered - are there lists of those passing through Shannon?

by Order of St Martin Sun May 02, 2004 23:27

Sexual abuse and brutalisation of natives, is standard treatment dished out by colonial forces/ruling classes all over the world.

Military forces sexually abuse and brutalise natives, in order to break them, and destroy any inherent human integrity to stamp out future rebellion.

If someone is depressed/psychotic due to the abuse they've suffered, they are less likely to be capable of fighting back/organising resistance against the ruling classes/system/military lackeys, instead they will more than likely be preoccupied with overcoming the abuse or may perpetuate and continue the abuse they suffered, abusing and mistreating members of their own community/family. The initial abuse creating a ripple effect in the community as those who were abused in turn abuse others within their own community.

Similarly those within the brit/US military forces who practise the degradation and torture of their fellow human beings will not be able to stop abusing within their own home civillian lives, thus their activities within their military world, will spill over into their home lives, and they will abuse, beat and degrade their own family members, and members of their own community. Which explains the high incidence of domestic violence and child sexual abuse within squaddy families.

The CIA and intelligence/military services have spent years researching torture, mental, physical and sexual abuse & degradation, in order to the get the most desired effect, which is the destruction of collective community morals, and subjugation of the community will to do the bidding of the minority of rich powerful or the ruling classes. They have also trained the junta forces of whatever tinpot government they've installed, whether it be in Colombia or El salvador, to carry out this systematic abuse of civillians, trade unionists and peasant activists.

It is no coincidence that stories of torture are leaked now, as ordinary Iraqis tire of military occupation, it is a warning to them to keep in line or face the consequences.

At the end of the day, the welfare of common iraqi civillians is really of no importance, or value, to those in power. Whether they are under the control of the US military or soddems military, they are still getting shafted.

by me Mon May 03, 2004 01:22

can anyone tell me if al of these photos are posted anywhere on the net? i've seen one or two here, but they don't seem to be getting much show outside the arab world.

by T Mon May 03, 2004 03:39

Isn't it amazing how Western corporate/state media presents the 'Coalitiion Forces' as freedom loving, honourable, peaceful liberators, but those in the photographs are terrorists?

Isn't it even more amazing that those who protest against this and other wars are villified in the press as some kind of extremists, radicals or as Bertie referred to the protestors against the EU and it's militarisation as 'hooligans'. Yet those who execute and support this war are statesmen?

Black is white and white is black..

by Hilal Mon May 03, 2004 08:54

The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos:
http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow


Todays headlines show the extent of the torture

"Soldiers say pictures are 'tip of the iceberg'"

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/media/story.jsp?story=517644

"UK Troops 'Swapped Hundreds of Abuse Photos'"

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2870910

"Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Appears More Extensive"

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news1/latimes135.html

by righteous pragmatist Tue May 04, 2004 12:01

The Arab world is shocked and incensed by the alleged abuse of Iraqis in one U.S. military prison. Shame on Uncle Sam, say the sons of the desert.

As Steve Martin would say: Well, excu-u-use me! If Muhammad’s mob ever showed an ounce of compassion toward non-Moslems, their outrage would be more credible.

That’s no excuse for what supposedly happened at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

Still, some of the allegations seem mild compared to the horrors that routinely go on in the dungeons of Middle Eastern regimes. Initial reports said prisoners were made to wear women’s underpants, or stripped naked and forced to lie on top of each other – which sounds more like a fraternity initiation than a KGB interrogation.

Other allegations are far more serious. If true, the perpetrators should be severely punished.

On seeing some of the photographs, like the prisoner standing on a block with wires attached to his hands (he was told he’d be electrocuted if he fell off), President Bush expressed disgust. "This treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people," Bush told reporters.

Six Army reservists face courts-martial for mistreating prisoners. They are a tiny fraction of the 3,400 reservists who are guarding terrorist suspects at 16 military prisons in Iraq.

There’s been a shakeup at the Abu Ghraib prison. The General formerly in charge (who says she had no knowledge of the abuse) has been replaced.

In others words, everything that could be done has been done. The soldiers charged with brutality await trial. Their superiors have been reassigned or rotated to the States. There’s an on-going investigation. The situation would not have come to light in the first place had other military personnel stationed at the prison not blown the whistle on their fellow soldiers.

None of this has stopped members of the religion of peace from issuing blanket condemnations. The reaction in the Arab world was reported in a May 2, USA Today story ("Arabs outraged by photos of U.S. forces humiliating Iraqis").

The nation that rid the region of Saddam Hussein -- a megalomaniac who’d invaded two of his neighbors in the course of a decade -- is excoriated both by Arab media and street. (When Saddam was in power, Iraqi dissidents found it next to impossible to interest the Arab press in the rapes and the torture-killings that went on in beautiful, downtown Baghdad on a daily basis.)

But now that it’s infidels who are at fault, you’d think the U.S. had turned Iraq into Auschwitz without the amenities. The New York Times informs us, "such degradations (forcing prisoners to simulate sex acts)…are particularly humiliating to Arabs because Islamic law and culture so strongly condemn nudity and homosexuality."

"The Shame!" screamed the headline in an Egyptian newspaper. "Shame on America," sputtered Cairo resident Mustafa Saad, repeating this theme. "How can they convince us now that it is the bastion of democracy, freedoms and human rights?" the irate Egyptian asked USA Today.

Apparently, Mustafa is unconvinced by the fact that America has taken action. America is investigating. If crimes were committed, America will meet out punishment – to her own.

If America were Egypt, the culprits would get commendations, promotions and a weekend at the beach. Coptic Christians, who constitute 10 percent of Egypt’s population, are routinely persecuted and occasionally murdered by Moslem mobs, to enormous yawns from the Egyptian government.

Remember Jessica Lynch, the American private who was captured by the Iraqi army? Lynch was gang-raped (anally) by her captors. Apparently, the rape of a female POW doesn’t offend the Arabs’ exquisite sensibilities.

Do you recall Americans blaming: a) all Iraqis b) all Arabs c) all Moslems for this bestial behavior? Do you recall protestations of outrage in the Arab world? But then, Lynch was an infidel Crusader and a defiler of the sacred sand of Islam, and – as such – probably had it coming, from the humane perspective of enlightened Arab opinion. (She was also out of burqa.)

While the Arab street seethed over the revelations of what reportedly went on at Abu Ghrabi prison, Palestinians murdered an Israeli woman who was eight months pregnant and her four children – ages two to 11.

Tali Hatuel, 34, who lived in a Jewish community in Gaza, was riding in a convoy when poor, oppressed Palestinians began firing on Israeli cars. After Hatuel’s white Citroen swerved off the road, gunmen approached the vehicle and shot the woman and her four children at killing range.

The Arab Affairs correspondent on Israel’s Channel Two quoted Palestinian sources saying the attack was intended to hasten the departure of Jews from Gaza.

In other words, the Palestinians deliberately shot a pregnant woman and her four children (one of them two years old) at close range because their hatred of Jews is boundless, as well as to achieve their objective of making part of Israel Juderein.

The thugs who call themselves the Palestinian Authority (who receive millions annually from the U.S. and European Union) fully approved of this atrocity. If Arafat saw pictures of the bullet-ridden bodies, instead of expressing disgust, most likely he chortled in glee.

When you come to it, when did the Arab/Moslem public last express the least regret over: machine-gun attacks on churchgoers in Pakistan, the anti-Christian jihad that’s resumed in Indonesia, genocide and slavery practiced by the Islamic regime in Sudan, the 2003 bombings of Istanbul synagogues, the recent spate of church burnings in Nigeria, the ongoing persecution of Iranian Jews by that nation’s mullah-ocracy, the orgy of destruction visited on Serbian churches and monasteries in Kosovo by Albanian Moslems, the deaths of over 100 in a 2002 attack by Chechen terrorists on a Moscow theater, the March 11 Madrid train bombing (death toll: more than 200) or the slaughter of more than 3,000 Americans in a single day by 19 airborne Saudis?

It’s only the civilized who are horrified at brutality – even when the brutes are their own kind, even when the victims are their sworn enemies.

On the other hand, with certain honorable exceptions, the Moslem attitude seems to be: If it was done to an infidel, they possibly/probably/definitely had it coming.

Were they living on land Moslems claim? Were they 110-pound female Crusaders who had sullied Islam’s sacred sand pit? Were they dhimmis (Christians and Jews living under Islam) whose existence is tolerated, at best? Were they pregnant "settlers" and two-year-old Zionist imperialists?

If the six reservist guards are found guilty of offenses against their Iraqi prisoners, maybe they should be treated with the same severity as those who commit crimes against Christians/Jews/Hindus etc. in the wonderful world of Islam.

After the Arab street is through lecturing us on the humane treatment of prisoners, perhaps David Duke could address us on racial tolerance, Al Sharpton could comment on responsible social activism and al-Qaeda could instruct us on ecumenical relations.

by kokomero Tue May 04, 2004 13:10

said she had no recollection of her captivity.

How therefore can you claim that she was gang-raped anally or otherwise?

The book that the allegation appears in wasn't even written by her, rather by a journalist and this allegation based on a supposed medical report makes good sensationalist copy for the promotion of a book or an agenda, but please don't insult our intelligence by promoting it as "fact".

by righteous pragmatist Tue May 04, 2004 16:25

Why focus just on Lynch? What about the degrading treatment, imprisonment, torture, murder and genocide of Muslims, Christians, Jews, homosexuals and other social and ethnic minorities in Arab countries? Rape was used regularly to torture the children of political dissidents in Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Do the actions of a few troops represent the thousands and thousands of U.S. servicemen and servicewomen who have done their honourable duty?
The massacre of My Lai was a similar incident that was used by left wingers with a chip on their shoulder to blacken the vast majority of U.S. soldiers who fought honourably and in many cases died for the Vietnamese people.

Lynch did not remember the circumstances of how she was captured. She was knocked unconscious by the collision of the vehicle she was travelling in when she and her unit were ambushed and suffered severe injuries.She could not have opened fire with her M16 and kill any of her attackers although other members of her unit did.
She did recover consciousness and was threated in a delapitated Iraqi hospital where doctors debated amputating both her legs.
She was also sodomised by Iraqi guards.
This prompted an Iraqi doctor to report her location to American forces.
The hospital at that stage as American forces neared Baghdad was abandoned but better safe than sorry armed Special Forces launched a rescure mission.
When Lynch was rescued she was conscious as TV footage clearly showed.
She was examined by U.S. Army doctors and she was treated for her major injuries as well as those inflicted by her rapists.

I find your dismissal of the rape of a helpless young woman as utterly repugnant. Is her ordeal less horrific just because you don't agree with the policies of her country?
Of course the U.S. media and the government exaggerated her heroism.
But if you strip away the bullshit who cannot deny the brutality of her captors.
No more than I can deny the brutality of a handful of sadistic U.S. Army prison wardens going beyond the pale of reasonable behaviour.

by mona Tue May 04, 2004 20:27 mona at yahoo dot co dot uk

I laughed and laughed at the Iraqi gay sex porn.

You Iraqi guys are funny!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAve fun but use a condom!!!!!!!!!

by John Harding Wed May 05, 2004 01:51

The torture of Iraqis is typical of American culture. In America, students are hazed, people spend hours on pornography, and dishonesty rules. Racial prejudice also plays a part. What can we expect when white American soldiers have life and death power over Iraqis? I notice that all those torturing Iraqis are white Americans. Americans enjoy torture and disrespect -- it's what they do.

by Ikahn El Wed May 05, 2004 16:13

...And further.
This was happening back in Nov. Dec.
of 2003.
You know this news was on the street in Iraq.
So when Iraqi's get thier hands on an American, what do you suppose would happen. Now we know.
Any American who supports this or think and eye for an eye is ok is uncivilized and contributes to the disintergation of civilization.
But unfortunately we are showing our truer selves.

by kokomero Wed May 05, 2004 16:53

What is your source for the rape allegation, and don't tell me it's a sensationalist ghost-written book?

Given the names of the medical staff are known and Iraq is under US "control" why haven't they been arrested and charged with rape?

The only evidence is that Lynch was as well cared for and probably better than most Iraqis given the pitiful state of their infrastructure due to guess what, AMERICAN SANCTIONS!

Please confine yourself to the facts, not wishful thinking!

by U. S. Expatriot Wed May 05, 2004 19:12 burningbush at hotmail dot com

Thanks John,
You are absolutely right. This is the sort of thing that WASP Americans and anglophones do. All the hypocritical talk about "the majority of the honourable coalition forces being sullied by the actions of the few" and Moron Bush's remark "this is not the army and it is not America" is errant drivel and utter nonsense. If it is not America, then just who the hell ELSE is it?! Remember that none of the non-anglophone Europeans wanted any part of this fraud. So who BESIDE the Americans and the Brits did this? And if it is not America who is doing all this, then exactly who the hell IS doing it?

US expatriot

by Eric Davis Wed May 05, 2004 19:59

I'm glad you're so confident that torture like this is something only white Americans are capable of. If, in the coming weeks, any nonwhite soldiers are accused, I can't wait to hear your explanation of how they were framed.

by Righteous pragmatist Thu May 06, 2004 13:31

REMEMBER 11th SEPTEMBER.” Last Tuesday, a band of demonstrators appeared outside the British Prime Minister’s offices on Downing Street in London. Some were carrying signs bearing photos of the burning World Trade Center, with the exhortation to remember as a caption. But it wasn’t a memorial. It was a threat.
They were chanting “Bomb London, bomb New York” and “We are terrorists.” Another one of their signs asked “IS THIS YOUR FREEDOM?” and bore one of the photos of the Iraqis prisoners abused by American and British soldiers in Iraq.
Is this our freedom? No. Our freedom is more accurately illustrated by the fact that those responsible for the abuse of prisoners will be prosecuted. They are, in other words, not protected by an ideology that is immune to self-criticism and justifies abuses by theological or legal tenets, or by reference to other abuses. The difference between the two civilizations that are clashing now is not that one will commit heinous acts and the other will not. Human nature being what it is, evil will never be wholly absent from any group. But one civilization will condemn and punish those who commit such crimes; the other will not.
The Iraqi prisoners are just the latest pretext. If the stories of abuse had not existed, they would have had to be invented — as evidenced by their augmentation on the ever more frenzied Arab Street with footage from an old porn film depicting American soldiers raping an Arab woman. Many people believe that if we only made a few adjustments here, or there — Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan — the animosity toward America in the Islamic world would melt away. The demonstrators, for all their particular grievances, prove otherwise. They were from Al-Muhajiroun, the notorious pro-Osama radical Muslim group in Britain that has been wanting to “bomb London, bomb New York” long before these prisoners were abused — and long before there were even any American troops in Iraq. In Onward Muslim Soldiers I record the group’s leader Omar Bakri’s statement that he is working for the day when the “black flag of Islam” — the jihad flag — will fly over #10 Downing Street.
A few days before this demonstration, my old college roommate Dave sent me a New Yorker cartoon depicting a group of people, male and female, in a hot tub, with the caption: “I think if these Islamic fundamentalists got to know us they’d like us.” Of course, many real people think the way the folks in the hot tub in this cartoon think. You’ll find some of them not in hot tubs, but in the State Department.
Unfortunately, however, despite all the hearts-and-minds initiatives, this conflict has nothing to do with getting to know us. The principles of global jihad, to which Al-Muhajiroun enthusiastically subscribes, are not a reaction to American power or any particular American action. The influential Pakistani radical Muslim theorist Syed Abul Ala Maududi declared that “Islam requires the earth — not just a portion, but the whole planet — not because the sovereignty over the earth should be wrested from one Nation or several Nations and vested in one particular Nation, but because the entire mankind should benefit … from ‘Islam’ which is the programme of well-being for all humanity.”
Maududi insisted that non-Muslims, although free to practice their “false, man-made way,” have “absolutely no right to seize the reins of power in any part of God’s earth nor to direct the collective affairs of human beings according to their own misconceived doctrines.” If they do, “the believers would be under an obligation to do their utmost to dislodge them from political power and to make them live in subservience to the Islamic way of life.”
Committed mujahedin will never be mollified by any amount of good will or economic aid or anything else from the West. They won’t be happy if every prisoner gets his own hot tub and copy of the New Yorker. They are dedicated to the proposition that no non-Sharia government has any right to exist, and that Allah commands that all non-Sharia governments must be fought. As the principal obstacle to this, we are directly in the line of fire. There are two possible outcomes as far as they’re concerned: death, or victory. Not negotiations, not peaceful coexistence, not mutual understanding. Those who abused the Iraqi prisoners should be punished, above all for stimulating anti-U.S. hatred among Muslims. But no one should be deceived into thinking that such abuse is the cause of that hatred.

by hopiwind - wahaneb Thu May 06, 2004 21:40 myuster4657 at yahoo dot co dot uk

So America is some sort of barbaric inferior race? American WASPS are genetically sadistic?

Not only does this ignore the history of the world, but it is the kind of super/subhuman racist thinking that led the Nazis to start exterminating the "barbarians" and "vermin" people.

How about dropping the ugly stereotyping, en masse generalizations, and racist classifications. Some assholes did this. I think the group to classifying them in is the "sadistic bastard" group.

END RACISM

by hopiwind - wahaneb Thu May 06, 2004 21:40 myuster4657 at yahoo dot co dot uk

So America is some sort of barbaric inferior race? American WASPS are genetically sadistic?

Not only does this ignore the history of the world, but it is the kind of super/subhuman racist thinking that led the Nazis to start exterminating the "barbarians" and "vermin" people.

How about dropping the ugly stereotyping, en masse generalizations, and racist classifications. Some assholes did this. I think the group to classifying them in is the "sadistic bastard" group.

END RACISM

by Sirius Fri May 07, 2004 11:32

We should simply exterminate every last fat lazy stupid american. Then we can start on the Jews. Then we might have some peace.

by kokomero Fri May 07, 2004 13:14

How do you manage do jump from legitimate criticism of the genocidal policies of the US and its allies in their illegal occupation to a claim that the rest of the world wants to exterminate Americans because they are an "inferior" race?

Gullible and naiive perhaps, but inferior no. Any any attempt to plead insanity or stupidity in response to American crimes in Iraq will be ignored for that reason!

The Americans firstly are not a race so any reference to racism is in error.

Secondly the American public is a victim in all of this as their legal president Al Gore was deposed in a bloodless coup by a corrupt bunch of oil-barons so if anything they are deserving of our sympathy unless like you they are among those mental defectives who actually support the illegal Bush junta!

by CayMarie - US Military Sat May 08, 2004 04:00

I've read a lot of this, and much of what was said is very informative, even if it does not support my opinion. As a Soldier, I truly believe in a code of ethics that these barbarians could never live up to. I was shocked, angered, and saddened by the maltreatment that I saw in the pictures. They are generally unavailble through conventional resources, so I will not endeavor to find more. What you see in these pictures are the roguish actions of a few. The vast majority of military personnel would never dream of behaving in this manner.

I am a decent human being, a mother, and a good person. I have never been encouraged by the miitary to abuse other, and I do not abuse my child. There is no abuse in my home-no sexual abuse, no physical abuse, and not emtional abuse. Sadly to say, a lot of spoiling goes on. My son has me wrapped around his finger, and he can probably get anything he wants. I am not a mindless robot trained by evil taskmaskers to become the ultimate killing machine. In my heart is the blood of an American who loves the country she serves. What I do, I do by my own free will. If I err. I do not blame my superior, I blame myself.

Every person who was aware of the abuse with the exception of the whistleblower should be subject to a military tribunal for war crimes. A court-martial is not enough for people like this, though I am sure that none of these people want to face the punishments that will be dealt by their superiors, though no punishment can ever right the wrongs that have been committed.

I was particularly disgusted by PFC England's defense that she was following orders. If she were following orders, they were illegal orders, and she therefore had a moral obligation to disobey them. Folks, watch my favorite movie sometime-A Few Good Men. In that movie, junior Marines-PRIVATES- are found guilty of a crime that they committed by the order of their commanding officer. "I was just following orders", just doesn't wash. "I was only a private" doesn't wash. As we say in America, if you do the crime, you do the time, and I hope that she is locked away forever for what she did to those people.

It does not matter that these Iraqis were "the enemy". They are people, and they deserve nothing but dignity and respect. What these awful people did (I refuse to call them Soldiers) was an act that has strategic impact. They deserve whatever punishment they get-and more.

by e Sat May 08, 2004 12:30

But it's starting to look like Lynndie England is complicit in child rape. Lynndie England is a child rapist. She deserves death.

-- American

by Fred Dawes - DTS Sat May 08, 2004 22:10 Dawesdawes51 at aol dot com 5115 mandarin dr o'side ca 92056 760-758-8963

Lets face some real facts about prison Torture it is common place in u.s. prisons. but what about this new Torture deal with the Army and the worst M.P unit in all of iraq; why was this so called M.P unit in that prison?
when the Army knew full well it was so bad?

you must remember when our boy saddam
was in power he used this prison for the purpose of Torture but maybe that is the real reaso why the CIA picked this prison! to make a political point?

or maybe our boys in the CIA, needed for some-kind, of political deal.

the abuse photos were likely also a setup by people who were fooled in thinking that it was real, the fact is abuse like this one and many others are always used by the CIA People to some kind of evil end the chance that all were pick by the good old CIA is really good, and all will by used for political ends that we can't see right now!
In other words the Army M.P'S Will now become the scapegoats of the CIA people, Bin Laden must be having fun with this one, after all the CIA Did set him up back in the 80s Just stop and think about this and its times we live in and the great timing for all of this to happen.

by Fred Dawes - DTS Tue May 11, 2004 22:11 Dawesdawes51 at aol dot com 5115 mandarin dr o'side ca 760-758-8963

The murder of a u.s worker is down right evil as hell. But were are the outcry against this new outrage? it was torture it is evil, but why no outcry in the international so called world?

We must all stop and think about what will come next, what was the point of murdering
a civilan worker by cutting his head off, it is sucking it is sheer evil, what will kennedy say about it? what will rumsfeld say about it? and what will happen next? will the press boy just call him white trash? as some have said about others who are in iraq? like the belt way boys have said about PFC. ENGLAND?

will the people get mad as hell? no he is just one more victim in a war! for our Oligarchies!
by the way what happened to the 14 billion in oil in one year in iraq?

by brad Fri May 14, 2004 06:15

fuck all iraqis,theyre all human garbage along with most of the rest of the non U.S. world.Hope to see more pics of them guzzling one anothers jizz,they like it.They beheaded a fuckin jew so fuckin what..just keeps gettin better...greets from U.S... a big fuck to you all

by Christenthemum Sun May 16, 2004 22:17

I suggest that you should know what you are talking about before making comments about sensitive issues . You have not provided clear evidences about the gang-rapes in Saddam Hussain's regime . You have not provided evidence about Jessia Lynch's gang-rape , she told everyone that she was very well and the U.S medics that treated her in Iraq said that she survived only because of the care of the Iraqi fighters .It's amazing that there are so many people living in the states with high living standards whereas with that level of intelligence , they would have a street-cleaner back in Iraq . Two wrongs don't make a right . Mr.Bush apologised on tv somedays ago , did he apologised to the grave of the raped iraqi women who couldn't speak English properly ? Has Mr.Blair expressed his worries about what happens in Iraq yet ? He's much more adept at using specialist vocabulary in his speeches that are finding their place in A level English Language text books .It's crystal clear that the CIA has much more power than the president of the states .

by Fred Dawes - DTS Fri Jun 11, 2004 22:37 Dawesdawes51 at aol dot com 760-758-8963

Its really funny to see so many people yelling about how bad or good Reagan was or was not! but the fact is he helped To Remove
from this earth the Evil Empire! he was not loved by most and not hated by most, he was what he was, some would say he was a tool, and others would say he was just a person of his own time! he was not a Benito Mussolini or any-kind of evil but he was a person that did care about the kind of world he wanted, some do not understand that fact, and remember long after most of us are dead
he will be remember by millions of people all over this world, for good or for bad, Reagan was Reagan and that is that.

by Fred Dawes - STOP IMPRISONMENT OF KIDS Mon Aug 02, 2004 05:05 DAWES57 at COX dot NET 760-758-8963

Is it not fun, to watch what is happening in the good old USA, the system is a real joke and that joke is on all of us, the torture in iraq is now a non issue, becuase we know its done in all prison systems in this world, the fact is it is common place to beat and rape inmates in all of our prison system's, on this good earth! as the U.S Becomes more and more like some third world so called nation we will see a lot more torture and police murders.

the sad fact is we can't stop that fact of life, and it will some-day kill billions of people in this next world war.

by US Military - Army Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:33 comeforth at hotmail dot com

It's down right embarassing, I can't believe my fellow soldiers would do this. However, I blame the leadership, in the army one of our obligations is to "know our soldiers". There is no possible way the leadership did not know, they just turned a death ear. I'm glad to see all the people involved getting charged, but the punishment must meet the crime. These few soldiers, along with their leaders has cause an uprising full of beheadings and kidnappings. How can they sleep at night knowing that some Islamic militant beheaded somone, because of the prision scandal. I'm appalled that other's didn't come forth. I always try to understand why we do certain things in the military, but I just can't understand this one, we were wrong completely, and everyone involved she get due time, not just letter of reprimand, those Generals need to face time

by FRED DAWES - DTS Sat Sep 25, 2004 20:14 DAWES57 at COX dot NET 5115 MANDARIN DR 760-295-9426

So where is Saddam when you need him?

Our government appears to be using the ideals of saddam in most things here in the states and in that place we call iraq home of the lost war!

We can all look for more violents on all sides of this really stupid non war! and we will all pay for our really stupid so called political leaders non ideas, In fact within ten years time we will have a real mideast Jihad right here in our own land of the free and stupid, not with the people's of the mideast but with our loving Mexican friends and our own loving Non Government who are setting us all up for the real Reconquista of our own nation! and if you know what evil is its coming right at you from the back door of our loving government of drugs and power and murder of a people and of a nation.

by Fred Dawes - Dts Thu Oct 21, 2004 00:10 dawes57 at cox dot net 5115 mandarin dr o'side ca

Can only hope that the Abu Ghraib people on our side are not raped and murdered in our prison system, but some will be beaten and all will understand what bondage and gangsterism is behind our bars in our political prison system. and all have been setup for this imprisonment by our great old CIA.