Spanish troops are leaving Irak!!!

by arthur Mon Apr 19, 2004 02:09

Prime Minister Zapatero is a beacon of light at a verry dark time in our human history.A suggestion in the media puporting that Spain may pay an economic price for this crediable stance shows that human life can be traded for a price but not by Spain.It is astonishing that the arrogant dithers who think they are Gods gift to humanity havent got the balls to support this crediable and decent acknowledgement that there is something verry worrying and unacceptable going on in Iraq.Mr Zapatero and his ministers deserve our support if we are to claw back any credibiity to politics ,rule of law and what is left of human rights.
Adrienne Duport in the early days of the French Reveloution asked the question "Does not a society which makes itself a legal murderer teach murder".we can now see this horror is elsewere and should they get away with this where will the genocide stop.If this becomes the order of the day we could be witnessing the begining of the end of civilised behaviour in the world .Bush ,Blair and others must be faced down before they do any more damage as there is more to life than dollar signs and anyone with the slightest nature in them knows that the peoples in Iraq are humans like we are .

by Spaniard Mon Apr 19, 2004 13:55

Lets not descend into praising Zapatero. He and his PSOE government are no friends of the working class. The PSOE are simply reflecting a section of the Spanish ruling class that are unsupportive of the war in Iraq and are worried that by being bogged down in the war will discredit their state. Zapatero is simply acting in the long term interests of the Spanish ruling class.

Zapatero will still in his economic policies make the Spanish working class pay for the crisis in Spanish capitalism. Mark my words he will continue to implement the neo liberal agenda of his predecessor.

by Steve Mon Apr 19, 2004 13:57

Great weather, cheap beer, and now a government with ethics. Can Spain get much better?



Cue right-wing backlash about "giving in to terrorists".

by Dangermaus Mon Apr 19, 2004 13:59

We'll soon be back to 20% unemployment levels in Spain - only a matter of time.

by Spaniard Mon Apr 19, 2004 14:29

The Spanish government have no ethics. They pulled out of Iraq because it was in the interests of the Spanish ruling class. The PSOE are not a party of the working class they are a Blairite party.

By the way, we probably will see 20% unemployment, not because of any so called 'socialist' policies but because the PSOE are implementing neo liberalism in Spain.

In fact under socialism unemployment will be eradicated, unemployment is an inevitable symptom of capitalism.

by John Mon Apr 19, 2004 14:51

Zapatero's election is great news for Ireland. Under the Aznar government Spain was becoming quite a competitor to Ireland for multi-national investment. Aznar reduced unemployment from the 23% he inherited from the socialists to 11%. Given time, he could probably have reduced it close to Ireland's level of 4%. Now the socialists are back in, multi-national investors won't touch Spain with a barge-pole. Expect a lot of that
investment to come to Ireland.

by jeff Mon Apr 19, 2004 15:42

Economic policies will almost be always the same, the fact that it is a government with ethics is a big difference.

Right wingers love making laws saying " you can't do this, etc". Right wingers want people to pay for education. Right wingers love giving tax breaks to the rich.

Left wingers today will encourage the free market, but the likely hood is that we will hear less of " pay for education". The "evil "single mothers wil be helped. Who knows? Maybe the cops will be held more accountable

I could go on, but I will just say that right wingers are geek bag scum. They most annoy me on uni campuses, especially the ones that are rich kids.

Right wingers are a disease, a cancer on society. Right wingers need to be confined to the dustbin of history.

by Vernon Hegarty Mon Apr 19, 2004 16:22

Would that each government 'of the people' would follow so closely the wishes of its people.

by Daren Carroll (an american) Mon Apr 19, 2004 17:42

LIberalism will sink whatever country it touches. I'd bet Irish sovereignity on that... wait, someone already did that! Sorry! Gotta go

by Vernon Hegarty Mon Apr 19, 2004 18:21

but I just couldnt resist - like Abe Lincoln's govt 'of the people' sank the liberalism of the Confederacy?

by jeff Mon Apr 19, 2004 18:26

Ameri-nomics are a much different concept to Euro-nomics.

In Europe, we basically try to help the poor. In America, a century of ruthless speculation coupled with ethnic cleansing of the natives has left Americans with a creed they will never turn away from; the free market.

Free marketism is natural for America, buit not for Europe. That is why right wingers are a cancer; they like to pretend Ameri-nomics are to be emulated. They are lying; they only do this to advance their own post political careers.

That is why Margaret Thatcher took work with Philip Morris, and told us all years later why Pinochet was such a lovely fellow.

It is a mindset that contains an unhealthy mix of ambition, motivation, misanthropism, lust for power, and the willingless to hurt the vulnerable, because they can.

The last now I want to hear of Arse-nar is in the obituaries column.

by the stuart - vº international. Mon Apr 19, 2004 18:36 Barcino

issued a very solemn statement.
The 1340 regular troops of the Spanish Armed Forces are to return by June 30th from Babylon.
They didn't quite say "babylon" but's part of the ShakeDATspeare cultural tranquility which the new century was always going to have to deal with @ some stage.
There are undoubtedly still many of those in the Levant to the Khyber who wish us harm and send us malice.

Meanwhile Mondays are Happy.

You just like have to try ad nd be happy,
read a poem.
listen to some music.
Bach BWV 82.
ich hab genug.
= I've enough.
If you work hard for little money,
then remember most people you see do too.
Work a little less hard for that money.
Ask for an advance.
Ask for a loan.
Knock Knock Knock and with a wee bit of practise and enthusiasm, we will "slow down" from the frenetic self-destruction that the fetishising of certain work "ethics" has turned to barbarity.

You could try and get interested in "local affairs", like Think global if it's happy, and act local if it makes sense. So nice to get the lines back. Perhaps you're interested in the environment. http://www.environ.ie/doei/doeihome.nsf?Open
You perhaps have oodles of good ideas to share, so share them.

Young men in cars account for most of the road deaths in Europe, they work very hard to enter the debtor system and drive carelessly so filled with hormones are they.
It might be time to reconsider the social and extended wisdom of gender stereotyping that automobile vehicle breathless horse car four wheels good two wheels bad machine marketing has probably benefit beneficio of the doubt caused given I&I.

Girlfriends are well chuffed to drive you know.

And most of the car crash victims that are attending the World Forum of 2004, (kindly paid for by UNICEF benefit of the doubt...) have been confined to their wheelchairs by male young drivers. Those young men carry that with them.

Oh, another "car" thing:-
Lots and lots and oddles of clever young people have worked very hard to help their bosses shelve hydrogen, methane, vegetable oil, hair oil, water, clockwork and so on cars over the last decades.

We have now decided so we have that those well worked plans are to come down off the shelves, and onto the road. We also would like to drop the hint, that this can be achieved quite painlessly over a decade and wean the poor burgher off the really very valuable oil product list industrial complex. We are quite pleased with the buses of BCN which trundle around very efficiently on hydrogen even though they will be on a take a break take it easy slow down oh please slow down for we may not understand you so rushed are you Strike soon.

poem:-
WB Yeats, weird ducky he, did point out that those who add pence to pence are a right pain in the ass. Everyone is entitled to have a local shop for like their local people that doesn't tell you to fuck off over a penny.

Nobel Prize:-
great one this, 1967 study of choas theory and thermodynamics russian "proved God to him".

Internet:-
nordics and so are looking after so many things.

Health:-
Acupuncture was present on this contitent a long time ago.

History:-
It is customary to revisit important events, i recommend reading Patrick Kavanagh's little ditty on Homer and Munich.

Geography:-
If going on a long journey you really need to take more than a rough guide. We traditionally have recommended sandwiches, a quality map, and so on.
Dupont are happy to offer excellent waterproof maps with which you may go look for confluences and stuff like that, sort of know where you are, but don't forget that if you "magnetise" a little bit of metal, it will if floating point in the generally accepted position of north. You will also if you look around you see that natural landscape together with the slow accumalation of man and so on over the years added what are thought of as "landmarks". These are very useful.

Arts:-
They really are a lot of fun, and if you do start the "great tranquility buzz" then you will have to figure out what to do with all that non rushing around time. This is supposed to be where arts come in.
I like that,
I'll repeat it will I:-
WHERE ARTS COME IN.
there I made use of the capital letters thing to convey a sense of annoyance or alternatively a shout well raising of the voice.

Sports:-
They really are a lot of fun, and if you start the "great tranquility buzz" then you will have to figure out what to do with all that non rushing around time. This is supposed to be where Sports come in.
I'm not really a sporty type.
But it does the morale of a community a lot of good to see their team win once in a while, oh how many times could Coventry win the FA cup? and Ireland the Cricket indeedy.
Sure go on give Japan the Rugby. Now none of us want to see thousands of people in the central squares of our cities doing the motivator jane fonda workout. Oh no non that's a nein.
Just like hang out with other people who like starting the "great tranquility Buzz", and like
start it. Great thing is all you need is your day by day sort of time span.
:- I wanna start a revolution!
-: yeah man but I wanna home for tea!

nice one eh? we were all with the program and we didn't even notice.

Now if you don't like the newspapers you don't have to buy them. You can go on working in them but remember, relax, take a break, and don't get humble. Work your freedom.

Government:-
Great jobs do not great men make.
It's never to late to take time out, relax, remember that you're not the only one who can feck up the terribly stressful responsiblities invested in you, your family might like it, then again they might not, either way the re-introduction to "real life values" will be very instructive. Oh and if you're a cardinal wearing the red socks and falling on my way, man you do a bad tramp, you need more practise, but you've got my handie for the moment.

Culture:-
great stuff.
really great stuff.
and every one else has this great stuff too.
wow eh?

Movies:-
Loads of them, all through the exploitation of silver bromide good movies have continued, pass 'em on. I'll give you a tip: Peter Sellers and the "party", he endes up in a red jumpsuit poor man. Bosco was really cool wasn't he? oh and Zig and Zag. if you're being chased by a crocodile you have to zig and zag, the croc having 64 teeth outnumbers your 32 by two to one.

Education:-
has mostly been preserved by the oral tradition. Now it's no secret that we have too many graduates. We don't have enough "great tranquility buzz people" and too many specialists. You can't get the xxi century together with all those specialists.
It really is very good when people broaden their horizons. To which beginning and too often sad end the present practise of "selection" implicit in our educational and training does it's thing.

Telecommunications:-
The passing of profitibility and the finite supply of elements involved in the global telecommications bubble ought be an indication that this sector has long passed the stage for investment review. I'll get back to you.

Warnings on the smokes:-
wouldn't it be dandy if we used these prohibition spaces to warn on the dangers posed by normally aggressive young mae drivers who really need to get laid, and oh there's a thought, live their lives in a different order.

One of the last ShakesDATspeare, did draw your attention to the seven ages of man thingy. Putting all the specialists together has made wankers of them and spoilt brats of some children and near paupers of the rest.

Linguistics:-
Chomksy has been subject to much formative criticism consistently over the last thirty plus years, mostly presented to test his inconsistency and the critical form of his subject.

Anagrams:-
Now if you go looking for anagrams everywhere then maybe you should set crosswords, you have to be careful with type of thing.

Harry Potter:-
Nothing wrong with reading that at all, works well in translation, puts the fun back in night time interfamilial communication and gently introduces lots of userful vocabulary, syntactic structures without the yucky yucky stickly stuff called boulderisation mispelt uouou that was orrible, wot dey did to shakeyspear. So don't let that happen again.
Neither Cervantes, nor Dante nor might I add, Darwin. I'm sick to the back teeth of wisdom hearing people tell me about evolution without even reading the texts.

Natural Resources:-
You really would be mindblown if you knew how many there were.

Zoos:-
We are very pleased the Zoo of Barcelona was not moved closer to the UNICEF Forum, and we think of poor Copita de Nieve a lot all of us in this city. We see like the postcards all the time. Copita de Nieve means snowflake, amazing structure, really quite mysterious, he was so called is so called and will be for his peculiar albino appearance. If you've pals in Spain ask them to send you a postcard of Copita. We like seeing Gaudís architecture too and they make great postcards.
Oh and this is the 100 aniverrsary of Dalí who lived and worked in BCN and really was just as good as you think. Even better. There are works by Dalí in Ireland and it would be a delight for many to see them in the garden of our public galleries a while. If not sure just poster the walls.

Transgenetics:-
Forum has presented a natty poster of Krushchev who's succesor Gorbachev has been invited to UNICEF Forum, holding in place of his angry little shoe, a big red dildo.
Imagine that, Kruschev and a great big dildo, this poster announces our international day which can be your international day whenever you want, against transgenetics, if we want to buy mutant kiwi fruit we'll fill out the marketing forms and tick the "i want to eat mutant kiwi fruit" box. And the information will be stored for oh aeons and aeons.

Oh Catalonia has
ENDED THE CULT OF THE BULL.
To which end bull fights have now been banned, you may like to watch another movie "habla con ella", by almodovar, who has also whilst I'm at the coherent shakeysDATspeare tangent offered you "the bad education". The cult of the bull, is a recurrent phenomona in human history particularly occidental cultural streams. It is particularly bad news, and if you want to know is the reason the Colliseum is preserved and has been subject to so many types of ritual cleansing. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then don't worry about it at all. 'Cept to remind that the images we place on our hillsides and tops become so quickly those "landmarks" referred to above in the Geography counselgraph. Everytime they are enveigled in the same way, which is so lamentable, but periphrastically posed cyclopsis turns to "the great tranquility buzz" like every time.

Grainne ni Mhaoil has not been seen on your technicolour screen, as Jean Luc Picard would say if he were like on the stage and visible in a tangible turn of phrase sort of way

Make it so.

Though he might say it in French.
what do you reckon?

Letters.
great. postage stamps are available on your high street, main street and even in the sleepy hamlets of ireland there lurketh on the post office. got called an post. Anyway to celebrate the changeover they allowed everyone send a letter for a penny! imagine that old ducky W.B.Yeats would have been thrilled though, naughty and exploitative employers made their workers write out all the company mail in hand, long hand at that, to get the march on the hare. I'm quite sure loads of the older people remember that. So the golden rule:- pythagoras called it "phi", oh there i am on a tangent again, one of the golden rules:- it's never too late to say sorry.
And apologies work best if you reflect on how best to prove your sincerity.

marriage:-
if it's your church kirk synagogue mosque temple then you know yourselves, if it's civil than you know yourselves.
http://www.thegofish.com/archives/2004_04_19.php

divorce:-
ditto brother smutt never had a brother smutt where did that come from?

Indymedia:-
update from Santa Cruz:-
Rev. Billy did stargates oops starbucks when
he came to Forum2004, he though didn't make it to the UNICEF Forum.
http://santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/8708/index.php
I have to write that Penelope Cruz is god damn gorgeous, sure loads of lads have their hopes up after that divorce from Cruise.
But unless she tramps up, I'm not going to say even a ooooooooo hello. 'allo 'allo was great, false breasts aren't. I'm sure Penelope doesn't have false breasts, whilst on the actor news, it is reported that many of the main occidental porn workers have joined a perhaps different and more difficult "great tranquility buzz" after the alarm was raised on u know "de virus" little letters big disease. come together right now over me, you can feel his disease. and pop music tippy, when Bowie who's wife we recall is a living symbol of victory over barbarity, signs "Lenin is on sale again", it's actually "Lennon is on sale again", In "is there life on mars?".

gratuitous answer:-
Yes there is also more importantly Death.

Vinyl.
loads of good stuff. loads of bad stuff.
likewise DJs. Spin you round round round.
Variety is the spice of life, dune u go down one groove on the gravy wavy train.

Poetry.
Lovely stuff.

Computers:-
great tools on their own, and together have posed many previously irrational problems for many of the specialists entrusted with good government and policy making in the XXcentury. Remember this little axiom:-
Shit in = Shit out.

Copyright:-
is illogical and irrational and quite plausibly one the dodgiest corner stones of a rather unedifying structure. If it seems odd that a girl might think to sue her parents for making her as reported (as linked in the Sunday Independent and Times http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61096&search_text=gagesby&search_comments=on) and an egyptian israel for slavery, then it might seem odd to sue many people for allowing information to be free and non profit.


Recycling:-
During the common era second war, (Europe 1939-1945) the burghers of London cut off all their iron railings tobe smelted and turnt to bullets for the allied war effort, though the iron was what is vulgately known as pig iron and thus of little value to the makers of bullets, as a result the burghers lost their railings a counterpoint to Dublin where they are still there, mostly painted in black lead paint. We face this century with many problems and challenges but resplendent in material that is and has to be recyclable. We may not meet either Saudi or Carribean oil billionaires and rationalise the future, so as we worked forty years to design amongst other things the clockwork car, we must now learn how to recycle it all.






Rent:-
It is always a good idea to know how to pay the rent and where it is you pay the rent for.
Most of you have unfortuanately not thought of rent and been thinking about mortgage instead.

So there you go.
illiterate and unintelligible
"as ever"

i am
Iosaf.
¿hi how are you doing?

by Daren Carroll Mon Apr 19, 2004 19:41

My name has one "r". Second, Lincoln HAD to suspend some rights in order to bring the South back into the Union. Jeff Davis (President of the Confederacy) HAD to suspend States Rights to even match the Union. What does that tell you? Mr. Davis had to get rid of the policy that they were fighting for! In every war, things are sacrificed, like civilian casualties, or even judiciary rights.

by Daren Carroll Mon Apr 19, 2004 19:46

sorry, that last one was for Vernon, but Jeff, I'll say this. People are motivated by money. Simple. Osama wants it, GWB wants it, your cheerleader bitch Zapatero wants it, and hell, you and I want it. That is what makes the world go round! Free markets lead to better quality of life! If you tax the rich, and hand the $$ to the poor, the rich won't wanna work! no rich to feed the poor= the poor starve. If rich people keep their money, they'll want MORE of it. They'll open new factories that employ ______ people. Fill in the blank.

by jeff Mon Apr 19, 2004 19:47

The natives I was referring to were the Natives not the African slaves.

What has your point about the Civil war to do with what I said? Something about "sacrifice'.

Fair enough, point taken, but if I was a typical Iraqi, whose daughter or sister was the victim of one of your bombs, I just would not buy your argument. I'd actually find a reason to kill you.

by Vernon Mon Apr 19, 2004 21:43

with respect to suspension of 'rights' during wartime. But what does that tell you about war? Particularly, pre-emptive war against another sovereign state, while alternatives were still open....?

and forget the voodoo economics

finally, iosaf, I just have to comment. I have read some of your postings from time to time and they are consistently funny, uplifting, thought provoking, rambling, aggravating and funny (again). I like the relaxative effect of the above...compliments.

by jorge Tue Apr 20, 2004 14:55 coqui_r at hotmail dot com 787-292-1971

Zapatero responding to the ruling class, say one comment, this is incredible in SPAIN the ruling class amount to 85% of the population. Yes this is the percentage ot all polls that say no to war in Irak. The people of the USA need to start reading and leaving for while baseball, football, basketball, hockey, the celebrities gosip etc...The people of the USA has to know what the polititians and the corporations are doing elsewere to other people in the world, and then choose inteligently and peace will be a fact. Terrorism is the horrible alternative of the weak in front of the strong. The best solution to erradicate terrorism is to attend the issues that create this horrendous alternative. Give peace a chance, all I'm saying.

by Daren Carroll Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:33

18 resolutions, Saddam did nothing. We HAD exausted diplomacy. He was a nut-job who refused to comply w/ the UN's resolutions. UN! Same fucks who won't support us are the ones who issued the war ultimatum! War was the final option, sucky, but it was the only way.

By the way, that Civil War history was for whoever talked about Lincoln (can't remember who).

by Daren Carroll Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:36

My simplified Economics lesson was only meant to say this; capitalism is not an "american" thing. It is racist to think only Americans or whites like capitalism or freedom. What I meant was that ALL should have the freedom to pursue happieness (i.e. $$).

by kino Thu Apr 22, 2004 02:40

Politicians lie and break promises, unfortunatley, it's become a norm, it's now, in a sick way, a requirement of the job. don't congratulate until it's done.


This is a summarised translation of an article in Machetearte #791 19/20 April 2004

Zapatero's announcement doesn't convince us of much. The president of the spanish governement had promised that the soldiers would return before 30 june, if "the UN doesn't take the reins of the situation.", but as bush and powell are trying to manouever so that the UN accepts the creation of multinational force headed by the USA before that date, so Zapatero may lengthen the stay of those troops in irak.
The plan is, according to the US game, that the UN will intervene to "legalise" and endorse foreign intervention in irak justifying the stay of british, spanish, european, asian and south american troops.

However, Zapatero did say that it is not forseeable that the UN would adopt a resolution which would fit with his conditions.

The new spanish president underlined that spain will contribute to "the fight to free the community of nations againt terrorism, with the strictest respect for international legality"

Also, the new minister for foreign affairs, Miguel Moratinos, will propose to washington that the troops are replaced by non-military assistance for reconstrucion in irak, including humanitarian assistance.

by Salvador Laiz Mon May 10, 2004 00:28 fulgacian at yahoo dot es

So it is not tolerable for Iraq to break UN resolutions, ando so you act and invade the country (and kill at least 10.000 ppl in the name of freedom). Well, I hope you soon invade Israel and terminate Sharon's massacre on Palestinians, in the same name of Freedom. Or is it ok for Israel to break UN resolutions?
Ppl is not stupid! We kicked fascist Aznar and I hope uoy in the US do the same with that empty headed GW Bush that rules you and the rest of the world, for a good world health. Is it legal in your United States of America that an idiot of that kind could rule upon you?