Osama’s Olive Branch Rejected by Cowardly Europe

by cynical_leftie Thu Apr 15, 2004 22:42

His message was tailored to the left wing of Europe.

Trusting Bin Laden would be very foolish. I'd point out that he considers the West to be occupied by nothing more than a bunch of "infidels".

That said though, some of the stuff in there is pretty interesting and despite the fact it is obviously targetted at people who are left-leaning in their politics, I feel he makes some valid points, particularly the part where he mentions people not being vigilant results in nefarious politicians leading people into danger, primarily because it's true, and has been proven to be so.

I'd suggest the best policy is to remove any provocation for Bin Laden to attack the West - by pulling out of Afghanistan, stabilising Iraq under UN control for a limited time, and denying Ariel Sharon the means to oppress the Palestinians, namely financial and military aid.

But a peace treaty with Bin Laden? Not a hope in hell - the man is a murderer, just like Bush, Blair, Sharon and all the rest of them.

by jimbox Thu Apr 15, 2004 23:04

Socialist, why is it that if Bush, Blair or Sharon came out with a comment-any comment-proposing any sort of "peace", you would probably be in the front line to oppose it, calling it "lies" and "propaganda" and yet, when one of the world's most prolific murderers comes out with tripe like this, you say "Bin Laden is prepared to be reasonable"?
You seem to forget that those very members of the UN he wants to keep attacking are those he dreamt up this worthless "truce" for. Just remember, anyone else naive and silly enough to want to believe this, that Hitler expressed the same sentiments in 1938. Either you support justice for murderers-ALL murderers, including "pillars of the world community"-or you don't, and are happy to spout selective bullshit about some killers being more equal than others.

Personally, I always believed the first option to be what being left-wing really was.

by Socialist Thu Apr 15, 2004 23:24

We in the west have no right to interfere in the affairs and the sovereignty of Arab nations.
The American presence in Saudi Arabia offends the vast majority of Muslims.
The infiltration of Western values of "democracy" and the "free market" and secularisation of the Middle East is imperialism at it very worst.
The tradition of the Arab people is Islam and who are we to impose our subjective believes on them?
Bin Laden is trying to free the people of the Middle East from the tyranny of Israel backed up by the Capitalist U.S. Islam is the method to bring the people with him( unfortunately the Middle East does not follow the true Marxist model but we've got to be realists).
The targeting of the World Trade Centre (Economic target) and the Pentagon ( military industrial complex) was totally legitimate and the selection of the early morning was designed to reduce as much as possible the inevitably tragic civilian casualties. Unfortunately the buildings collapsed and killed firemen ( who probably voted for Bush anyway) but the greater good had to be served by crippling the American economy.

Contrast that with the deliberate targeting of Afghan civilians in the carpet bombing of Afghnaistan, the slaughter of Palestinians in Jenin and the butchery of Fallujah.
Where is Bush, Sharon and Blair going to attack next?

Bin Laden is the lesser of two evils.

by pc Fri Apr 16, 2004 00:53

the worst thing i've seen writing here

"Bin Laden is the lesser of two evils."

???wtf

lost of commentary on ow the left are considering this proposal, im presuming the left arn't

bin laden is murderer... but still think all us troops should leave saudi arabia ,his mian beef i believe?


its a bit like oh there some thing in here he'd like us to do but we want to do them too but now thats he asked us to them we can't ....

by R. Isible Fri Apr 16, 2004 01:09

You make some very strange statements about "the targeting of the WTC was legitimate" and that "calling bin Laden a murderer is a bit rich" but offer nothing to defend those statements.

The idea that killing innocent people is not murder and that it's justified anyway seems antithetical to the principle s to which most socialists would ascribe.

So I'm interested: are you a member of any socialist organisation (and if so which one)?.

My own opinion: ObL is a murdering, religious fascist probably a little worse than GWB. However there's not really much point in arguing about which horrible fascist is worse: most socialists are quite clear that the choice is not between OBL/GWB but instead between socialism or capitalism.

The logical inconsistencies of your post (unrelated statements piled together with no supporting argument) reminds me very much of the writings of "Lone Gunman/Drbinoche".

by an editor Fri Apr 16, 2004 01:34

who published this intends it as a provocation attempting to collapse the ideas of Osama and The Counter Globalisation Movement in Europe into one. Someone would like a huge section of western people to be labelable as terrorists or terrorist supporters. I wonder - considering it's posted on indymedia Ireland - who posted it?

by Fuse Fri Apr 16, 2004 04:10

I can't believe that anyone who calls themselves a socialist would advocate the murder of innocent civilians under any circumstances. No one is blind to the political manipulation & rhetoric in the west, but like some have already said, it seems harder for a few empathetically blinkered individuals to see it in the east.

It's very troubling to me that anyone would deem a terrorist 'reasonable'. So all those deaths have been 'acceptable' and the hatred & bitterness this violence has propagated must then be 'justifiable'? Such bargaining repulses me.

I thought leftist politics was about a better way? About inclusion of the ordinary folk and expanding those ideals into actions. Anyone then who discards the lives of innocent people and supports war efforts on any side must then make a mockery of this notion. And for those above who consider murderous leadership a 'realist' view, I am so disappointed. People with this attitude seek to make us choose sides of humanity against humanity, culture against culture and so on. My choice is this: we are one people, across this world - I can't condone Muslim retaliation killings anymore than corporate blood for greed.

Just because Muslim terrorists have a religious tradition behind them, please don’t think that this equates a higher moral or social or cultural integrity. I think that’s an insult to the majority of decent peace abiding Muslims who are suffering prejudices now due to similar, though inverted narrow discernment. Politics is a dirty game. Citizens should never be cannon fodder for power mongers – anyone who says otherwise is a sham.

by BS spotter Fri Apr 16, 2004 04:28

That crap article is very likely to have been writen by a journalist, or a cop (is there much difference nowadays?), so that they will have another angle on how evil the 'lefties' are. It certainly looks to me like the sort of 'agent provocateur' stuff that gets quoted to portray the left and anarchists as monsters.
It is also in line with the standard propaganda tactic of claiming that all dissenters are in league with the enemy.
Most of our readers are intelligent enough to spot when something is bullshit and/or is deliberately planted (but then most of our readers are not journalists on the make).

by R Isible Fri Apr 16, 2004 04:38

as representative of anything deserves to be added to the Deirdre Tynan Hall of Infamy. Contestants are nominated on the basis of possessing a general cluelessness and then go on to accumulate points for:
1. Lying
2. Distorting
3. Being lazy
4. Being semi-literate (Illiteracy doesn't qualify, it has to be actual semi-literacy. Bonus points for pomposity and shop-worn phrases).

I still think that the person that pecked this out on their keyboard was Drbinoche/Lone Gunman. I advance the peculiar writing style and lack of coherent argument as supporting evidence.

by TCD Hack Fri Apr 16, 2004 04:45

I think the comments of Judge William Young (below), while sentencing the Shoebomber Richard Reid have some merit. To paraphraze, he basically said, you are not an unlawful combatant, you are not a soldier, you are a terrorist, a criminal who attempts to commit mass murder, we do not sign agreements with criminals, we hunt them down and bring them to justice.

by BS Spotter Fri Apr 16, 2004 04:53

The spelling is too good to be Lone Dribbles. Seems to be someone slightly more intelligent (which should not be too difficult).
I am of course referring to the small part that is not "cut & paste".
I suspect Dribbles is also the person using the name Bernard Dunleavy.

by Socialist Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:30

It is quite clear that Bush was told by his neo conservative controllers and Israel supporting advisers to ignore the warning of 9/11 when anyone in government circles could see that an Al-Qeada attack was imminent.
The Bush administration knew that they could use the 9/11 attacks as ammunition for their genocide in Afghanistan( not to get bin Laden or remove the Taliban but to secure oil pipelines) and invade Iraq ( to steal the world's oil resources for Haliburton).
Any who pays they price for Bush's empire building?
The brave Palestinians fighting to reclaim the land robbed from them in 1948 and moderates such as Admed Yassin who asked for a ten year peace treaty with Israel.
Of course the Jewish Zionist entity in alliance with the American war machine want to continue to fight and crush all opposition from an emerging Islamic movement which has the potential to rock the capitalist boat.

War, any war, is a tool to crush dissent.
You see it yourselfs at Shannon used as a war port and when 100000 people marching in Dublin are ignored by Bertie and co who are too interested in corrupt land deals.
The Left has common cause with the suffering Iraqis, Paledtinians and Afghans who countries are destroyed by the American Zionist alliance of greed and capitalism.
If Europeans would just make peace with Bin Laden any danger to us will instantly go away.

by patriotic billy young Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:33

Are you taking the piss?

Being anti-ObL doesn't mean being pro-Western governments. The world isn't that black and white. The State (American, British, etc.) are also criminals who commit mass murder.

Just as ObL and co.'s attacks cannot be justified, neither can the actions of America, eg. the war, Guantanamo Bay ("hunt them down and bring them to justice")

It is possible to oppose both

by Socialist Fri Apr 16, 2004 20:45

Because you seem to think that the actions of Ossama Bin Laden merit the same moral condemnation that the crimes of the united States and Britain and Israel deserve you can't take sides in this war.
It's obvious where our best hope to defeat capitalism is.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

All I want to see is America lose.

If you condemn Bin Laden you are only following what Bush and the neo cons ( neo nazis) want.
The hearts and minds operation is aimed at us and the Arab people.
They just want to keep the workers down by dividing us from each other.
We should say it proud and say it loud!
No War For Oil!
End The Profit System!

by rant Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:10

is there any independent corroboration on the alleged contents of the statement as posted? It sounds too much to me like the rantings of someone from this site. If it is accurate, then fair play to the author for posting.

And then my own rant starts.

To denounce as a murderer when murder in our name is being carried on a scale that Bin Laden could not match if he wanted and to suggest that negotiation is ridiculous with an enemy in a fight that we started (as nations and to support our western comfort), and to suggest that his message should not be allowed to reach the ears of the people in whose name the war against him is being fought - censorship only serves those who fear the truth.

again, good job indymedia in getting the message out - but my question remains - is this really the message that did come out

the message coming clearly from the western governments is that there can be no negotiated settlement, at least not in a fight they reckon they can win militarily - they will learn soon enough. The West has chosen to fight this war, and they chose now to continue it. I doubt Bin Laden really wants peace as the war with america and capitalism serves his purpose and perpetuates what would have otherwise been a Conservative and irrelevant sect of Islam. But as we know he is a product of war - his message as posted is accurate, the terrorism against the infidels is nothing but the same terror that the west inflicts upon the rest of the world coming home to roost.

The message isn't preaching hate, it is preaching reality.

by kokomero Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:21

on the basis of dogma as has been done by the leaders of the EU is just plain stupid. Look what happened to Fabrizio Quatrocchi for goodness sake, because of Berlusconis egotism. If anything characterises the behaviour of the 4 B's (Bush, Blair, Berlusconi and Bertie) it is egotism, putting their own place i history ahead of the wishes of their own citizens, and lying to cover their backs. Even if they do not have any serious intention of doing business with Bin Laden an intelligent leader would try to draw OBL and his minions into dialogue in order that more of their energy go into tlaking and less into shooting!

by redjade Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:33

Q. What is the Italian government willing to put on the table for dialogue?

R. "We are willing to say that in the province of Nassirya our action will focus even more strongly on the protection of the population, on security, services and the necessities of everyday life. And we are also prepared to say that we will do everything possible to ensure that this line of action comes to be adopted even in those provinces not under our command. We are offering to act as interpreters to convey to the Americans the need for a more receptive attitude to the needs of the Iraqi people and a greater willingness to engage in dialogue and avoid Iraqi civilian deaths".

Q. Do you mean that you will try to "put the brakes on" the Americans in the field?

R. "As soon as we receive some signal on the hostages, we are ready to tell the Americans that the right way forward is dialogue with all the Iraqi civil and religious authorities, and that we must all undertake avoid any action that goes further than being a defence from attacks, and to take every possible step to avoid Iraqi civilian deaths. Our commitment is to speak seriously with the Americans: we are not asking to discuss the withdrawal of troops or a recognition of terrorism. We must not negotiate with terrorist movements. We will try to carry out this task of persuasion".

by combatlogo Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:37

Rant,

you are a moron - then again, permitting idiots like you their two cents is part of democracy.

I suppose the Mossad & the CIA flew the planes into the WTC?

Jesus, if you hate the west so much, go to Libya/N. Korea/ Afghanistan under the Taliban, try "ranting" there & see what the results wd be.

by rant Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:49

i like nothing more than intelligent criticism

for fuck's sake read what OBL has to say - you can't just dismiss it because you don't agree with his tactics. And if you're going to criticise it, then back up your arguments and don't simply draw comparisons with previous hate figures.

Bin Laden and violent islamic actions against the west are a reaction against violent western imperialism. I don't suggest they're justified, or that bin laden would allow any rants in his islamic superstate, but get with the picture - OBL has some positive criticism to offer and to dismiss his message so crassly is foolish and shows how much you're really interested in peace.

Fools like yourself are just as culpable for the terrorism as those who carry it out.

by combatlogo Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:57

To answer your question - you are.

What's next, rehabilitation of Himmler???

What hate figures from thepast did I mention?

So are you saying OBL shd not be held accountable for 9/11?

What western imperialism? Oh, yes, the imperialism all those poor schmucks in the wTC on 9/11 were engeaged in.

Why am I a fool?

by rant Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:14

I don't know how much involvement OBL had in 9/11 - he did praise it afterwards though and it certainly is in line with his philosophy to bring the terror to those living in comfort while their armies murder and torture with impunity across the world.

Of course whoever planned those attacks is responsible for their actions, the same way that we all have a responsibiliity to do something about the actions carried out in our name - eg, the provision of weapons to the israeli state and the blatant support for the genocide against the palestinian people.

Only a fool could fail to see how western actions could spark a reaction like 9/11. 9/11 was no more a tragedy/attrocity than the murder of civilians anywhere in the world, either by arms, or by hunger. Are you saying that the west is not responsible for its actions across the world. From subsidies that ensure 3rd world farmers can't feed their families to direct military intervention to ensure that the resources of the world find their way into the hands of europe and america's elite.

OBL suggests that these actions should stop, and that in return his own despicable actions would also cease - do we believe him - no, but the message is stil clear, and sound.

by observer Sun Apr 18, 2004 00:09

Recently, the mujahideen groups in Iraq have shown that they are willing to release people who have proven themselves to be unrelated to the occupation. Bin Laden was originally a business man. It is all too common to dismiss the enemy of America as 'terrorists' and 'evil do-ers', in line with the U.S. Party line. This said, tell me, why do certain European nations even have their troops in Iraq, and why has even Japan gone to such lengths in order to send just a small force? Obviously, its because the leaders of these countries think it in their best interest to appease the United States and to gain favour. In the case of Ireland, a poor country, the Irish government seeks more foreign direct investment, upon which you are so dependent. The 'Coalition' presence in Iraq, lest we forget, is purely symbolic, simply showing how powerful American will is. America dictates, for the most part, to the whole world - and even France and Germany could only make a superficial show of defiance. They could never object unconditionally to a U.S. decision, and they know this. America does not have honest intentions in the Middle East, and bin Laden, an American construct, is surprisingly similar to American policy makers. He is pragmatic. Bin Laden struck back and his objective was strategic, i.e. the symbolic heart of the Western financial complex, the World Trade Center. There were civilian casualties. Perfectly legitimate and consistent with American foreign policy, simply reversed. Bin Laden's peace treaty makes this clear, he says, if we are terrorists, then so are you. European governments, however, still utterly beneath American power and unable to provide a proper counterbalance, have simply proven themselves here to be totally incapable of objecting outright to the United States. Their 'rejection' of the peace treaty simply amounts to a grandiose declaration: "Don't worry America, we are still by your side" - while the reality of the situation is that, far from being America's equal, the Europeans are inferior in both military and economic terms, and still eager to please. Thus, they have essentially chosen America's 'good will' over a potential reconciliation. They have said, "We will not negotiate with criminals", but what this means is, "We will only negotiate with American criminals". This choice will inevitably result in further deaths of European and Middle Eastern people, while the politicians and business interests who are always afraid of upsetting America will most likely remain relatively unharmed.

Bin Laden's point is that he does not wish to wage war against average European people, since the statistics show that on the whole Europeans themselves do not back aggression against Muslim lands and find America and Israel to be the greatest threats to world peace. Bin Laden's own power has been grossly inflated - he is a poor man, fighting a poor man's war, against a nation with the capacity and arrogance to wipe out every other nation on earth. Bin Laden is saying that European people are also in great danger from the United States, so we should not fight against each other and needlessly waste lives and resources at the behest of our mutual enemy! He is quite simply correct, whether you approve of his ideals or not, that is not what has been placed on the table, but a pragmatic truce. Europeans are foolish to reject it, but the big losers will, as always, be the people of Europe and the people of the Middle East, and quite possibly the people of Japan.

by jac Sun Apr 18, 2004 13:55

Arms industries' and Haliburton's interest
MEMRI has obtained and translated a copy of the most recent speech by Osama bin Laden , purportedly offering a peace ["sulh"] treaty to European countries that withdraw soldiers from Arab countries, while still maintaining the United States as a legitimate target. The following are excerpts from the speech
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Special Dispatch Series - No. 695
April 15, 2004 No.695

Osama Bin Laden Speech Offers Peace Treaty with Europe, Says Al-Qa'ida 'Will Persist in Fighting' the U.S

MEMRI has obtained and translated a copy of the most recent speech by Osama bin Laden , purportedly offering a peace ["sulh"] treaty to European countries that withdraw soldiers from Arab countries, while still maintaining the United States as a legitimate target. The following are excerpts from the speech: [1]


'September 11 and March 11 is Your Own Merchandise Coming Back to You'

"This is a message to our neighbors north of the Mediterranean, with a proposal for a peace treaty, in response to the positive reactions which emerged there.

"What happened in September 11 and March 11 is your own merchandise coming back to you. We hereby advise you … that your definition of us and of our actions as terrorism is nothing but a definition of yourselves by yourselves, since our reaction is of the same kind as your act. Our actions are a reaction to yours, which are destruction and killing of our people as is happening in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine.

"It suffices to see the event that shocked the world – the killing of the wheelchair-bound old man Ahmad Yassin – Allah's mercy upon him – and we pledge to Allah to avenge [his murder] on America, Allah willing.

"By what measure of kindness are your killed considered innocents while ours are considered worthless? By what school [of thought] is your blood considered blood while our blood is water?

"Therefore, it is [only] just to respond in kind, and the one who started it is more to blame…"

We will Continue to Fight the U.S. and U.N.

"When you look at what happened and is happening, the killing in our countries and in yours, an important fact emerges, and that is that the oppression is forced on both us and you by your politicians who send your sons, against your will, to our country to kill and to be killed.

"Therefore, both sides have an interest in thwarting those who shed the blood of the peoples for their own narrow interests, out of vassalage to the White House gang…

"This war makes millions of dollars for big corporations, either weapons manufacturers or those working in the reconstruction [of Iraq], such as Halliburton and its sister companies…

"It is crystal clear who benefits from igniting the fire of this war and this bloodshed: They are the merchants of war, the bloodsuckers who run the policy of the world from behind the scenes.

"President Bush and his ilk, the media giants, and the U.N. … all are a fatal danger to the world, and the Zionist lobby is their most dangerous member. Allah willing, we will persist in fighting them…

'I Hereby Offer [Europe] a Peace Treaty'

"Therefore, in order to thwart opportunities for the merchants of war, and in response to the positive developments that were expressed in recent events and in the public opinion polls, which determined that most European peoples want peace, I urge … the establishment of a permanent commission to nurture awareness among Europeans regarding the justness of our causes, particularly the cause of Palestine, and that use be made of the vast media resources to this end.

"I hereby offer them a peace treaty, the essence of which is our commitment to halt actions against any country that commits itself to refraining from attacking Muslims or intervening in their affairs, including the American conspiracy against the larger Islamic world.

"This peace treaty can be renewed at the end of the term of a government and the rise of another, with the agreement of both sides.

"The peace treaty will be in force upon the exit of the last soldier of any given [European] country from our land.

"The door of peace will remain open for three months from the broadcast of this statement. Whoever rejects the peace and wants war should know that we are the men [of war], and whoever wants a peace treaty and signs it, we hereby allow this peace treaty with him.

"Stop shedding our blood in order to protect your own blood. The solution to this easy-difficult equation is in your own hands. You should know that the longer you delay, the worse the situation will become, and when that happens, do not blame us, blame yourselves…

"As for those who lie to people and say that we hate freedom and kill for the sake of killing – reality proves that we are the speakers of truth and they lie, because the killing of the Russians took place only after their invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya; the killing of the Europeans took place only after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan; the killing of the Americans in the Battle of New York took place only after their support for the Jews in Palestine and their invasion of the Arabian Peninsula; their killing in Somalia happened only after Operation Restore Hope. We restored [i.e. repelled] them without hope, by the grace of Allah."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar) and Al-Arabiyya TV (UAE), April 15, 2004.




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by Daren C (an american) Mon Apr 19, 2004 19:27

If it wasn't for Europe's inbred hatred of the Jews, they wouldn't have had to flee to Palestine! By the way, you libs need some new sayings, . The "military industrial complex" "big oil", they're all getting a little old. Hitler offered to stop, if ONLY they would be reasonable and let him have Checkoslovakia (they need a new name, too hard to spell for a dumb Conservative like me). I am anti-UN, anti EU, and I think globalisation is bad, but bin Laden is NOT my friend. The class warfare is just a disguise to get a bunch of poor Eurofags to hate america.

by kokomero Mon Apr 19, 2004 19:49

specifically a US corporation called IBM selling massive quantities of punched-card machines to the Nazis through its Dehomag subsidiary murder on the scale of the Holocaust would have been impossible.

Futhermore, if the US had been more concerned about the Jews and had bombed the Nazi infrastructure around them instead of trying to make sure Europe didn't fall into the hands of the Russians, there would still be a thriving Jewish community in Europe today instead of a racist state built on stolen land.

So you see it isn't a matter of Europe bad, US good after all.

I am really sick of pig-ignorant Americans with no knowledge of history trying to tell Europeans how they should all be grateful, and that they're all Nazis and anti-semites etc. when it is plainly obvious that the Germans/Nazis and their allies only made up a small portion of the European population in the 1940s (less than 25%), and the majority of Europeans were against them.

Now fuck off, get your facts straight and get a life!

by Halle Berry Tue Apr 20, 2004 08:26

"Pig-ignorant Americans" eh? You being a sophisticated European and all?

The inescapable fact is that if America hadn't intervened we'd all be living in a Nazi regime.

For that one fact alone I will always be grateful to Uncle Sam and will back America to the hilt no matter what.

Keep on rocking in the Free World, dude!!

by kokomero Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:45

First of all it's a slur not a racial one as the Americans are not a race unless you're referring to the native-Americans you white Americans pretty much wiped out by ethnic cleansing and genocide and then confined to (occupied) territories known as reservations!

No doubt having seen you Americans get away with it the Israelis decided they could follow suit in Palestine, and through its financial sponsorship of the criminal Zionist regieme America has been very successful in spreading intolerance, ethnic-cleansing and genocide perhaps, but not democracy (which was invented by the Greeks, for your information, not the Americans)!

I was of course refering to only the pig-ignorant Americans like yourself alone, as there are still many Americans who protested against the war in Iraq and disagree with your neo-Con junta who took power illegally following electoral fraud in Florida.

Yes indeed America is a great example for the "American-free" world!

Unlike your revisionist view of WWII I thank the Russians for my freedom as they spilt the blood of 20M of their citizens saving us all from the Nazis and would have beaten the Nazis on their own, albeit in a longer timescale without military equipement and loans from the US.

Of course Europe would then have been communist, not Nazi as you suggest and this is really what motivated the US not altruistic motives!

The Brits like the Russians were bled dry of course by the loan repayments to the US for it's "help" during WWII to the extent there was rationing in the UK well into the 1950s!!!

This is the sort of help we can do without thank you!

by Patriot - USA Tue Apr 20, 2004 17:49 Upyoursyoueuropeanpussies at usa dot com USA

To all of you idiotic, head -in -the sand european pussies:

Wake the fuck up and smell the coffee. Osama Bin Sand Flea hates and wants dead ALL non-muslims, not only Americans, you numb nuts assholes. Yes, even you, you dumb ass of the belief that if you placate him and do what he wants he and his band of blood thirsty, backwards, stuck in the sixth century fanatical , murderous islamic fanatics will leave you alone to live freely both politically and religiously.

Imbecilic fucking pussies. I suppose it is comforting to know that when OB Sand Flea comes looking to spread his pan-islamic state across your country and begins a reign of terror there, which will no doubt be a major surprise to you when it occurs seeing as you had a truce in place with that oppressed, misunderstood, multi-millionaire OB Sand Flea, you will be bailed out by that horrible ogre and world oppressor the United States of America. But you're used to being rescued by the USA. Why don't all of you deadbeat European countries pay up your WW II debts to the USA? You have no problem taking our money and our protection when it serves your interests, but God forbid any of you, other than the UK of course, stand up and defend yourselves and the world against cancerous threats on humanity. Let the USA do it!!!!! Again!!!! Pussies, all of you.

by Daren C Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:15

look up the "Dreyfuss Affair". It took place in the late 1800s. that'll tell you how much France loved its own Jewish people.

by Daren C Tue Apr 20, 2004 18:22

One thing I find funny is that you libs claim Osama bin Haidin is not an Islamic fundamentalist, but a communist. He's "the man" because he's "one of us lower class".
What about the fact that he's an oil baron? He's not a poor, workaday guy! According to your views on class warfare, ObL and GWB would be oil buddies, drinking tea as they discuss who gets which countries, when they conquer the world together. He is an Islamisist who wants Whitey dead, unless Whitey wants to turn his turban to Mecca each morning.
To Patriot, very well said, very passionate

by kokomero Tue Apr 20, 2004 19:28

I am already familiar with the Dreyfuss affair, the story of one man (who happened to be a Jew) who was framed for something he didn't do and imprisoned by the French military on Devils Island not unlike the hundreds of Mulsims falsely imprisoned in Cuba for the crime of being Muslims.

Thousands of Irish framed and sent to Australia by the Brits, the Birmingham six, and Mordechai Vannunu are also victims of such false imprisonment and frame-ups so Dreyfuss is by no means unique in that respect.

Eventually Dreyfuss was fully exhonerated and the affair brought down the French government so if anything this exhonerates the French system of justice and by extension the French people!

You yanks and your Israeli puppet regieme are visibly anti-semitic in your treatment of Muslims and need to get your own house in order!

We don't need your unique brand of "help", read propping up despots, training torturers, subversion, assassination and murder.

You Americans are the ones who need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Actually don't bother because in 20 years time you fuckers will all be speaking Chinese anyway like the rest of us when your chicken-shit economy eventually goes bankrupt on the money you've borrowed from us to sustain your SUV-lifestyle!

by Crumbs Wed May 05, 2004 11:45

TRAITOR!!! Thankfully there weren't to many pinko cowards like you around back in the days of Charles Martel (By the way you so-called "intelectuals", Martel was the French commander who defeated the Muslims at Tours in 732AD).

by spell checker Sun May 16, 2004 22:04

I take it you aren't a 'intelectual' Crumbs me lad.