Full list of candidates for USI

by Insider Fri Feb 27, 2004 16:40

Late nomination comes in
Rory Hearne, fresh from the Coca Cola ban in Trinity College, will be running for USI President
The SWP member has secured the nomination of the left wing UCDSU and is also likely to get the nomination of his own Union TCDSU. Rory Hearne is currently studying for a Doctorate in Geography.

Rory will be running against Tony McDonnell (NUI Galway SU President- FF), Ben Archibald (USI Northern Area Officer- Conservative Party) and JP McArdle (USI Southern Area Officer- FG).

by Major Woody Fri Feb 27, 2004 16:54

Anyone remember the last time an SWP member ran for USI President?

Who was it and what became of him?

by Been there Fri Feb 27, 2004 17:09

Don't they know that USI is skint, they've been letting full time officers go for the last few months. Plus which, most USI posters are full color so, no cushy positions for party hacks and no printing contracts for Henrieta Street, what's the point of them wresting control of the union (unless they want the few remaining Unis to disaffiliate and it could then focus entirely on party business)

This isn't just sectarianism, I think it's a valid question and hope it might spur another social justice minded candidate to enter the fray.

Picture it:
Full fees for all V's Top-up fees for all, bash the government V's build the party. Maybe the students unions of Ireland should all disaffiliate now before next years fees get sucked into some horrendous party political propaganda campaign.

by Rupert Fri Feb 27, 2004 17:59

"Rory Hearne..." "...is also likely to get the nomination of his own Union TCDSU"

Ha ha ha...

by Fair play Fri Feb 27, 2004 18:24

To Major Woody et al...Oh wouldn't it be better if Rory decided not to run and we have a FG or FF in charge of USI. Great idea..well done lads- 100% top marks. Fair play Rory- best of luck! Keep the right wingers out!

by Tony McDonnell Fri Feb 27, 2004 18:34 su.president at nuigalway dot ie

I might be a lot of things but i'm not, nor have I ever been, a member of or even associated with Fianna Fail. For the record, as I said in UCD I have no political affiliations whatsoever.

by trinside Fri Feb 27, 2004 18:34

Rory Hearne would be a disaster for USI.

Thankfully he was refused a nomination from both UCD and his own college, Trinity, but unfortunately NCAD nominated him.

What's happened to Indymedia? This story should be announcing the list of candidates, not plugging the SWP.

by Fair play (the oxy whatsit) Fri Feb 27, 2004 18:35

Not if there latest turn in the UK is anything to go by.
Gorgeous George plaything more like.

by UCDSU Executive member Fri Feb 27, 2004 18:58

Rory Hearne was nominated by UCD Students' Union today. I can't speak for TCDSU or NCADSU.

The UCD SU Council mandated its 28 votes to go to Re-open nominations and not transfer UNLESS there are any other candidates or circumstances change. I reckon it looks like Rory Hearne will get all of UCDSU's 28 votes.

UCDSU is probably the biggest delegation at USI Congress this year.

by trinside Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:11

"Rory Hearne was nominated by UCD Students' Union today. "

- no he wasn't! only NCAD nominated him.

Does anyone know Rory's stance on the issues? USI will be restructuring in March and tackling the financial situation to get itself back to full capacity for next academic year.

Will Rory be supporting restructuring? (Or Tony for that matter?) Where does he stand on the autonomous campaigns (women's, disability, LGB, etc.?)

by trinside Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:12

"UCDSU is probably the biggest delegation at USI Congress this year"

Fraid it won't! DIT have more votes as they have a bigger student population. Also, Queen's and University of Ulster are bigger than UCD as well.

by UCDSU Executive member Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:26

Rory Hearne was nominated by UCDSU.

You make the points about not knowing where Rory Hearne stands. Well do you know where Ben Archibald stands? or Tony McDonnell? or JP McArdle?

I think it's clear from his record. Rory Hearne will not support doing financial deals with the government. Rory will not support abolishing the autonomous campaigns and officers. Best thing to do would ask Rory yourself- I'm not his election agent!

UCDSU will be one of the biggest delegations. UU and QUB will not have full delegations. DITSU is same size as UCDSU, one or 2 more delegate max. Looks like UCDSU's big vote will be going to Rory Hearne.

by Belfielder Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:27

"DIT have more votes as they have a bigger student population."

Yes, but they are an IT. UCD is a University. So we're better and more important and get more votes.

by ucd student Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:33

i think that we should vote ron for everyone other than rory hearne in pres election.

hugh o'reilly is an arrogant right-winger. he supports the abolition of the women's rights officer. i think it's a disgrace if that muppet gets elected to the important position of equality officer.

'belfielder' you're a muppet. just because dit are an it it doesn't mean ucd is any 'better' or more 'important'. ditsu are traditionally right-wingers, ucdsu are a left-wing union. their votes usually cancel each other out!

by Democrat Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:36

Rory would abolish the right to strike and the right to vote if his Trot Puppet Masters ever got in to power. So his mates are hardly in a position to criticise anyone else. Rory deserves no votes, he will be told what to do by RBB.

by R Isible Fri Feb 27, 2004 21:09

Hearne is an anagram of Aherne.

Sinister, very sinister.

Back to bickering with each other now please.

by UcdSu council member - SA Sat Feb 28, 2004 16:08

The ONLY man for the usi job.

That galway lad is a fucking chancer
or you can have a tory running the national union

good luck rory, hope ya get elected.

by curious Sun Feb 29, 2004 04:04

I heard somewhere that all but two officers were effectively laid off this year. Would someone clarify which (if not all) of these officers will be paid.

If it is the case that all of them are on salaries, then I think that at this time of financial crisis in the Union, it's a disgrace that three of the five positions have gone uncontested.

by USI member Sun Feb 29, 2004 15:38

This years USI Congress wil be held in Co. Clare.
The main issue is USI's financial mess. The right are proposing a deal with the government to get, what is essentially, a State Grant each year.

The elections for President will have 4 candidates: Rory Hearne (SWP), JP McArdle (FG), Ben Archibald (Tory), Tony McDonnell (FF).

by sheep_go_baa! Sun Feb 29, 2004 16:33

"Thankfully he was refused a nomination from both UCD and his own college, Trinity, but unfortunately NCAD nominated him"

Trinity didn't quite refuse Rory. As far as I'm aware (& I may be wrong) their exec were only asked for their vote at about 3a.m. Thursday night with responses to be in by 1p.m. Friday. He only lost by 1/2 votes. Although not a fan of Rory's ideas - he should at least be given the chance to have his say

by Sheep? Sun Feb 29, 2004 16:47

"he should at least be given the chance to have his say"

And Rory will, before su council tomorrow. There are USI hustings in the Joly Theatre, Hamilton building, at around 6:15 (free tea and coffee, no jaffa cakes though).

by tcd-er Mon Mar 01, 2004 04:14

"As far as I'm aware (& I may be wrong) their exec were only asked for their vote at about 3a.m. Thursday night with responses to be in by 1p.m. Friday. He only lost by 1/2 votes. Although not a fan of Rory's ideas - he should at least be given the chance to have his say"

This is no criticism of Rory or the TCDSU... But just to clarify what happened. Rory only asked TCDSU for a nomination at around 2am Thursday night/ Friday morning at the SU election count.... As the SU Exec had already voted in favour of nominating another candidate for President, it was only fair that they be asked to vote on whether to nominate Rory or not. They were texted immediately and asked to respond with their vote before 4pm on Friday (as nominations were closing at 5pm). Eighteen people replied, eight in favour, ten against. The result may have been different if Rory had given more warning, but regardless of this, it was a democratic way to decide whether or not to nominate him.

by trinity gossip Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:02

rory for president of usi?! NEVER! this is the same rory that nearly bankrupted trinity su a few years ago when he was president. He didn't listen to students, did more harm than good at committees and it took at its taken until now for the union to regain its credibility. Not quite the ideal candidate to save usi from financial difficulties!

He is rude, narrow minded and lacks any kind of common sense. Anyone else remember the infamous nelson mandela incident? Enough said i reckon!

by not a ucd student Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:11

As far as I know that there might be a few more colleges in usi other than ucd. ucd do not exclusively decide the future president of usi. I come from a smaller college and this is typical of big colleges like ucd who do not see beyond their own college campus.

by Hairy She McTwinkie Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:52

JP McArdle (USI southern area officer)...apart from what someone noted about him being FG (which hasn't been confirmed or denied), what's his story?

by Brendan Ferron Mon Mar 01, 2004 13:03

In order to safeguard the future of USI somebody is required with not only experience but also a person who is capable of commanding the respect of all students regardless of their political believes. Ben Archibald is the only person capable of doing this. As a member of Sinn Fein it pains me to say so, but Ben has represented all students in the six counties excellently. His politics have had nothing to do with the way he has gone about his job. He has represented both Catholics and protestant exactly the same. His ability to put to the side his own personal politics for the good of the student movement has been one of the things that which has marked him out and his term as Northern Area Officer
.
The student movement in the North, which is dominated by Nationalists, and indeed members of my own party, will travel to Clare and vote in mass for Ben.
In doing so they will show that the politics of the student union are non-sectarian, they will demonstrate their faith in Ben’s ability to solve the current difficulties.
I urge in the strongest possible terms for the good of the student movement that people throw their support behind Ben. Now is not the time for party political posturing in the student movement. Now is the time for leadership. Ben is the only person capable of the erroneous task, which lies ahead. USI does not need to be taken over by micro socialist organisations it needs to be saved.
VOTAIL BEN ARCHIBALD NO.1

by USI delegate Mon Mar 01, 2004 14:00

I am a delegate to USI Congress. I have a vote in the elections.

While I can accept that Ben Archibald is a nice guy and that he has done his job as Northern Area officer to the best of his ability I have to say that is not a reason to vote for him.

It all comes down to ideas and strategy. I think that Archibald does not put forward any coherant plan that will defeat the government's cuts in education. He is not advocating an alliance with the trade unions, he is opposed to protests. When top-up fees are being brought in to the North his claim to fame was flying students over to London to ask MPs to vote against fees. There needs to be more than this.

I think that Rory Hearne is the best man for the job. He won't be limiting himself to lobbying alone. He will use all tactics necessary to beat the government.

Furthermore, the main issue at the Congress will be finances. Ben proposes accepting the deal with the Dept of Education. Dodgy to say the least. Brendan, what's your opinion on this issue of finances?

by The Observer Mon Mar 01, 2004 14:22

I know Rory and while i disagree with his views on certain things he is a man of courage and conviction. I hope he wins as every other candidate is on the right. We need to fight the government and Rory will do that.

by trinsider Mon Mar 01, 2004 14:42

1. There is no "deal" to accept or reject with the Dept of Education. There may be in the future as there have been talks, but there *IS NO DEAL*.

2. Ben is not anti-protests. He led thousands of students to Belfast City Hall, and got the support of the Mayor of Belfast, as well as politicians both unionist and nationalist. Sadly the UK anti-top-up-fees campaign was unsuccessful, but remember *IT NEARLY BROUGHT DOWN TONY BLAIR'S GOVERNMENT!*

3. Rory Hearne wasted TCD SU money jetting off to Prague and other fancy places to protest anything remotely capitalist and to get himself arrested, with his Deputy President (also on Trinity student money) in-tow to cover the story for the SU newspaper. What a senseless waste of student money and resources - and totally unrepresentative.

by UCDSU Council member Mon Mar 01, 2004 15:44

"There is no "deal" to accept or reject with the Dept of Education. There may be in the future as there have been talks, but there *IS NO DEAL*."

There is a proposal that the USI get money off the Government. Essentially a state grant. It's up to the USI Congress to accept or reject this. Ben Archibald want to to a deal with the Department.

"Ben is not anti-protests. He led thousands of students to Belfast City Hall, and got the support of the Mayor of Belfast, as well as politicians both unionist and nationalist. Sadly the UK anti-top-up-fees campaign was unsuccessful, but remember *IT NEARLY BROUGHT DOWN TONY BLAIR'S GOVERNMENT!*"

Archibald is against protests unless they are absolutely "necessary". There is no denying it Ben is on the right of the movement. He may not support abolishing/downgrading women's rights/lgb/disability etc, but he does have the same position on protests as the rest of the rightwing

"Rory Hearne wasted TCD SU money jetting off to Prague and other fancy places to protest anything remotely capitalist and to get himself arrested, with his Deputy President (also on Trinity student money) in-tow to cover the story for the SU newspaper. What a senseless waste of student money and resources - and totally unrepresentative."

This is again more lies that right-wingers put out. Rory Hearne could not have gone to Prague on SU money without the approval of the Executive or Council. I'm sick of right-wingers putting out the mantra that the left can't manage money. Look at UCD this year where the left, for the first time in a long time, have not got the SU into thousands in debt.

by Pundit Mon Mar 01, 2004 15:51

Even revolutionaries are prepared to accept it. Based on the vote they got at the last election and having a TD, the SP receive approx €40,000 per annum from the State. Therefore the acceptance or rejection of State aid by USI could not be a matter of principle.

by Brendan Ferron Mon Mar 01, 2004 15:57

In answer to you questions.
by Brendan Ferron Monday, Mar 1 2004, 2:55pm


Observer,
The future of USI should have little or nothing to do with right Vs left. It must be a debate about who is best placed to keep this organisation alive. At the moment USI is on the brink of extinction. And lets look at what is being proposed for the future, the privatisation of education, the re-introduction of fees. We need at the head of the student union both a person willing to take on government and also a person with the capability to bring the student union out of the mire which it finds itself in.
Firstly, Bens record on campaigning has been excellent. In the North he led protests against Top-up fees. In the South he played a full and active part in the successful campaign against fees. It should be noted that it is the National Council who will decide the campaigns of USI and not the President.
As to the question of funding the organisation? I have been out of USI for one year and so am not privy to the current plans for funding the organisation. However, I can say for certain that Ben will take his lead from national council or congress on this issue. I know this because I have seen him do things that he personally wouldn’t, but as an officer representing the whole union he undertook. Last year he met Alex Maskey MLA while he was Lord mayor of Belfast. This shows the measure and indeed the courage of the candidate.
I cant believe that I am spending so much of my time standing up for a Tory but I know that the decision that USI makes at congress this year is the most important in its history. It is one, which will either signal the demise of the Union when it is most needed, or one that will put it on the road to restructuring and to becoming strong. It is a decision folks that will see USI become a narrow political organisation or one, which truly represents the student movement as a whole.
Ben, I believe, can take the national Union forward while others would seek to impose their own politics and ignore the current and most important issue, saving the union.
I care for the student movement and do not want to see its destruction. I feel Ben can do this and it is for this reason that I really hope he is elected. Lets put party political bickering aside, lets put sectarianism aside and save this union.

by Brendan Ferron. Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:14

P.S.
I think that Layne Aston is great and must be elected; anything else would be an outrage.

by FMF (Former MO! Fan) Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:38

I once knew this girl who was really really lovely who was welfare officer. I think she would make a great president because she was really really nice. Granted she was prone to be a bit emotional at times, but I myself unfortunately am blessed with that trait. She had lovely long red hair, and looked very pretty on TV. So I call on USI to run Maureen Woods as president. Bring back MO! And all it entails.

by USI delegate Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:40

So Brendan Ferron is it official SF policy to back Ben Archibald?

by Pundit Mon Mar 01, 2004 16:49

Why is it so difficult for Leninists to accept that people can make up their own minds on a candidate? Are they so used to having their decisions handed down to them by the little lenins of the SWP & SP? If people think that Ben is a better candidate than Rory then they should vote for him.

I see you have dropped the state funding line.

by Brendan Ferron Mon Mar 01, 2004 17:03

I don’t think I need answer that. I will however respond because I am having a quite day and don’t fancy a cup of coffee at the break. I maybe a member of Sinn Fein, but I also however have the ability to look at who is the best person for the job of president. I have not discussed the matter directly with the Ard Comhairle of Sinn Fein. I am sure that if they looked at it from an objective point of view they might come to the same decision I have who knows, maybe the leadership are all JP men and I am breaking the party line.
Come on and get real, It is my decision of course, if you got into UCD then you cant be that stupid or indeed naïve.

by USI delegate Mon Mar 01, 2004 17:04

Ben is a candidate that supports state funding of USI through the registration fee. He is part of the USI establishment that sees the government as 'partners' in education and sees sitting down with a mug of tea with ministers as more effective and important than mobilising the power of students and allies in the trade unions against cuts and fees.

Rory, despite what you may think about the SWP is the only candidate that is active on the ground. He will not sell out the USI with state funding, he does not see the governemnt as our partners and wants to see a USI that bases itself on students not ineffective 'lobbying'.

It is not a case of being 'told' who to vote for, any left activist should be instinctivly drawn towards voting for Rory Hearne. Taking this into consideration I find it bizarre that SF on one hand claim to be a left wing party and still have one of their local election candidates voting for and campaigning for Ben Archibald.

by Ray Mon Mar 01, 2004 17:20

'State funding through the registration fee'?
So when you register for college, part of the money taken by the state is given to USI? How is this different from the way the member unions are funded? Are there any conditions attached to this funding? I understand USI is going through a financial crisis at the moment - what other concrete suggestions* are there to solve this?
If we're going to have another interminable student elections thread, can it at least discuss some issues?

*in other words, no Reagan-style 'magic footnotes')

by Brendan Ferron Mon Mar 01, 2004 17:24

I don’t have a vote. I am not a student. I maybe left wing in my politics but I am also blessed with the ability for independent thought and the ability to decide who will make the better candidate. I do of course have concerns, but Ben has the ability to lead the organisation through this financial crisis. If Mr Hearne gets elected he may transform the financial position of USI, I can’t say he wont. All I can do is look at the record of management of USI/NUS that Ben has provided over the last two terms. I would never approach this election form a Left wing Vs Right wing standpoint. Instead I once again ask the question "Who will get USI out of its current mire?" And the answer clearly is Ben. While Mr Hearne has not been active in student politics or the national campaign, Ben has been very much involved. I do also think that there is a bit of irrelevance to this conversation as Mr Hearne is very unlikely to get votes beyond one or two colleges in Dublin and the great thing about this fine 32 County organisation is that it will take a lot more than UCD to get elected.

by UCDSU Council member Mon Mar 01, 2004 18:40

I think it's ridiculous that Brendan Ferron says that just because a candidate is getting nominations from outside Dublin we should vote for him. That's madness. Delegates and Delegations should vote for who they think is best.

If you think that USI will "save itself" by sitting on the sidelines and getting money off the government then vote for Ben Archibald, JP McArdle or Tony McDonnell. If you think that USI should get itself out of this mess by actually being relevant to students then vote for Rory Hearne.

USI's problems are not only financial. They also have big problems with credibility. Very few students know or have much respect for the USI officers. This is because most of them (not all) have done very little. We need a Union that will fight on the issues and will campaign on the ground. THIS IS PRIORITY NUMBER ONE

The next priority is sorting out the finances. In my opinion I would prefer having less full time officers for a year or two rather than sell-out an remove financial independence(certainly not something I would like given the Number 1 priority outlined above).

Brendan, I thought that you were one of the better USI officers last year. I'm beginning to think again. I find it amazing that you will back Ben just because you know him and he's a nice guy. I'm sure he is nice and he is doing his best at his job in the North. BUT this is not a personality contest. It is an election. What is his ideas on fighting cuts, fighting for Res Rights, Grants, etc. etc.

by USI delegate Tue Mar 02, 2004 00:34

Ray, in reply to your question asking whether the current way SUs are funded (through capitation fees) is the same as the USI proposal (funding through registration fees).

The answer is NO. Su's are funded by their members paying membership fees which are administered by the colleges, this is not the colleges money and SU's have complete independence over how this money is spent and even whether the fee should be increased or decreased. What USI has proposed is that USI take a certain percentage from the hated registration fees. The USI is meant to be opposed to the registration fee, it is fees through the backdoor. By doing this deal it will mean that any increase in fees by the government will mean an increase in cash going to the USI. Can you not see the conflict in interests? This money can and will be used as a tool by the government to bribe USI.

USI's proposal will see USI being funded through taxation. Currently the SU's and USI are funded by its members.

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:42

"Su's are funded by their members paying membership fees which are administered by the colleges, this is not the colleges money and SU's have complete independence over how this money is spent and even whether the fee should be increased or decreased."

So UCDSU or TCD SU can announce today that membership fees are going up by 10%, and this will happen automatically, with no need for the approval of any other body? Are you sure? When was the last time an SU unilaterally changed its fees?

As for the registration fees, I take your point that USI should be opposing any student fees at all. But you could argue that as long as these fees are going to be collected, USI should try to get some of them. Its up to you as a member of USi to make sure that this doesn't reduce USI's opposition to registration fees.

And I did ask, what other concrete proposals are there for dealing with USI's finances? Reduce expenses? Which ones? Increase incomes? Maybe get all the member colleges to increase their membership fees and pass that directly to USI? What do you think?

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:47

Yes, SU's (and USI) are currently funded by their members. But this is not voluntary funding (or at least wasn't when I was in college) - you paid your union membership with your registration fees, whether you wanted to or not. The students' union was a closed shop.
Whether you agree with this or not, there's obviously little difference between a mandatory E20 union contribution and a mandatory E20 registration fee that is passed on to the union.

by UCD head Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:57

"So UCDSU or TCD SU can announce today that membership fees are going up by 10%, and this will happen automatically, with no need for the approval of any other body? Are you sure? When was the last time an SU unilaterally changed its fees?"

I think the answer is Yes. It would have to approved by the Union, ie the Executive and Council, or even a referendum. So it would not be put up without consultation with the membership. I couldn't tell you when the last time membership fees went up.

"...But you could argue that as long as these fees are going to be collected, USI should try to get some of them. Its up to you as a member of USi to make sure that this doesn't reduce USI's opposition to registration fees."

On a point of principle the USI should not be funded by the State. It's bad enough having the USI officers politically the same as the State (ie there are FF, FG, Labour officers around the country). I don't trust them, and USI officers will not seriously oppose Registration fees as it pays their wages. When the 69% increase was announced some were happy as they thought the SU budgets would go up 69%!

"And I did ask, what other concrete proposals are there for dealing with USI's finances?....."

There are 2 alternatives. The first is to get a €5 from each student from the registration fees. This is the proposal with the Department of Education.

The second alternative is to reduce expenses (travel, wages, overnight etc), reduce full-time officers, get assistance from the Trade Unions. This would be for a period of 2 years. I think this is most viable. USI officers are well paid, they get over €350 a week. Compared to SU officers this is highly paid! They also get generous expences. They get something like €20 for every night (no questions asked) they spend away from their main office, even when on USI conferences where accommodation and food is paid for!! Compare that to UCDSU officers who get nothing.

"....SU's (and USI) are currently funded by their members. But this is not voluntary funding.... The students' union was a closed shop."

What's wrong with that? Surely as an anarchist you believe that all workers should be in a Union and all students should be in a students' Union. An SU is hardly a bourgeois institution. It's there to defend the interests of its members. If you argue that it should not be a closed shop you are undermining the Union. It's usually individualistic right-wingers that argue against closed shop arrangments.

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 13:34

Re. fees in each union

I honestly doubt that membership fees are completely under the control of each member union. These fees are collected by the college after all, and then passed on to the union. I think its much more likely that you'd have to get college (or HEA) approval to raise fees.

The more important point though is that this is completely out of the control of the student starting in college*. So the student pays, what is it now, about a thousand euro each year in registration fees. From the students point of view, there's not much difference between the 980 in college fees, the 20 in UCDSU fees, and the 5 in USI fees.

"On a point of principle the USI should not be funded by the State."

But they wouldn't be funded by the State, they'd be funded by students. The money would be passing through the hands of the State on the way to USI, but their money passes through the hands of the State on the way to UCDSU too, doesn't it?

If USI isn't serious enough about fighting registration fees, do you think this will change things much? Isn't the greater problem the fact that most USI and SU officers are not lefties? And why is that?

On the alternative of reducing expenses etc. Sure, there's probably a lot that could be done**. Pay USI officers the same as the average SU officer. Bring their expenses down to the level of the average SU.

Which full-time officer positions do you suggest abolishing?

Is USI still owed lots of money by member unions? Do you think this money should be paid?

How serious is the financial crisis in USI? I'd like to know, do you have some reasonable estimates of how much money is needed and what each step could save, or is this just 'savings to be identified later'?

*BTW, there's a difference between thinking that everyone _should_ be in a union and thinking that everyone _must_ pay union membership fees, whether they like it or not. I think a good argument can be made for students' unions being a special case, where the anual turnover is so high and tie spent in college so short that its not realistic to let people opt in and out. Generally, union membership should be optional (and I think everyone should take the option of joining).

** get money from the Trade Unions? The same unions run by FF, FG, and Labour types that can't be trusted in USI? The same ones that push 'social partnership'?

by raywatch Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:39

Ray you are a rightwinger

by VenusInFurs - UCD Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:40

Whoa, just wanna go back to a few posts there. A Shinner and self styled left-winger voting for a Tory and a Thatcherite?! Brings taking the piss to a whole new level, particularly considering NI's turbulent history and this the 20th anniversary of the miner's strike! I know many of my shinner friends here in UCD would find the idea of voting for Archie very repulsive.

Unlike Archibald and the other cowboys, Rory would not view the government as our 'partners', an abysmal approach which has proved detrimental to students in the past few years. Rory would stand for a fighting union that bases itself on the active participation of all students, and therefore its in the interests of all activists to in turn vote an activist in tnto the position of president. In addition, Rory would be the only candidate to pose the need for the USI and the trade union movement to take joint action against fees and cutbacks. Indeed, it is workers who first feel the brunt of the savage cutbacks and it is their jobs and working conditions that are at risk.

I'm personally sick of writing letters to put 'pressure' on the government and attending the ridiculous childline concert type demos every year. Rory would counterpose action to these tactics in order to tackle the government. Whether Rory can get a majority of delegates is questionable. However, a high vote would be a very serious rebuttal of this years and previous years careerists that have run our national union into the ground.

On a personal level, the thought of seeing the Education Officer elect, James Carrol (FF), voting for a swapper for Pres just fills my heart with glee! Me thinks its gonna be a kodak moment!

by UCD head Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:40

I have to disagree with you on the membership question. If you base yourself on an individualistic perspective you will say that Union membership should not be under a closed shop arrangement. If you base yourself on the collective, then you will say that all should be in Unions. It is a result of a collective decision. For example SU constitutions (with membership articles) are subject to the approval/amendment of members. If you wish to remove the closed shop then vote it out. 'Closed shop' USI membership is also a collective decision of students in referenda.

Local SUs and the USI are not funded by the State. Students give the money to the Union, Clubs and Societies etc. It is only administered by the College Bursar's office. It is legally collected for this purpose. If the Colleges decided not to administer it then legally SUs would still get the money. USI membership is only about €2.50 a year- not €5. It is paid by local SUs each year. If this deal were to be done then the USI would be getting cash from general taxation (which is where most of the registration charge goes!). i.e. it would be a state grant.

Personally I would not support the abolition of ANY position. At USI Congress my SU is proposing restoring the Women's Rights officer. I think that some positions could be made part-time for a short period. I would suggest Equality, LGB, Area officers. I would keep Pres, Deputy Pres, Education and Welfare fulltime and would reduce their wages and expenses. There can also be revision of staffing at USI.

Getting assistance from the Trade Unions is a correct orientation. I think it better that USI turns towards workers' organisations rather than the capitalist state. Anyway I hear that SIPTU won't be giving them cash- rather other assistance (offices, research etc).

I think that SUs should pay the USI. However I'm aware of deals being done (for example UCD) where USI said that they would not persue last years cash, and are now going back on this agreement. I oppose USI doing that. In UCD Ben Archibald said he would not persue the money, although he disagrees with the original agreement- I agree with him on that.

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:42

Any attempt to look at the detail of an issue is right-wing. If I was a real leftie I'd just be shouting slogans, yeah?

by Armed Miner - Red Faction Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:44

Red Rory also gets Waterford IT, NCAD delegates- and wait till the SF hits the fan- can't see Ben's boast that all 66 "North of Ireland" delegate votes are in the bag for the party of Margaret Thatcher!

Speaking as a socialist and a republican myself...

by UCD Head Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:47

I like the point made by "VenusInFurs" about James Carroll (FF).

It looks like the entire UCD delegation will be mandated to vote for Rory Hearne. ie James Carroll and Shane Hennelly will have to vote for a member of the SWP or else get sent home!

Certainly a Kodak moment. Remember James mark number 1 beside Rory's name!

by Bobby Vee Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:53

Ray the argument you are using in favour of the USI deal with the state are the exact same ones used by the right wingers in USI. If you were a delegate at the congress you would be voting along with FF/FG/PD/Tories. You are a right winger.

It's good to hear that Hearne has Waterford, NCAD and UCD. Can someone please confirm this. How many votes is that so far? And how many votes have the other candidates secured?

by UCD boi Tue Mar 02, 2004 14:59

Make sure Carroll isn't in the bogs when it comes to voting, he has a tendency of being 'absent' on crucial and embarrasing votes

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 15:06

"If you base yourself on an individualistic perspective you will say that Union membership should not be under a closed shop arrangement. If you base yourself on the collective, then you will say that all should be in Unions."

That's just gobbledegook. You can do better than that.
One of the problems with the closed shop is that its the result of collaboration between the union and the boss. Rather than the worker _choosing_ to join a union because she thinks it will fight for her, she has to join because otherwise she won't have a job. The frequent result of this situation is rightwing unions - if your boss insists that you join a specified union he's going to either set that union up himself or insist on the most rightwing union available. (ICTU are enforcing a variety of this too, preventing workers from joining other unions, such as ILDA)

(Again, I think everyone _should_ join unions. I'm against everyone _being forced_ to join unions. And I think SUs are a special case)

It doesn't make it any less of a closed shop if you can have a referendum _after_ you've been made to join the union. (And you still can't choose to leave yourself. Whatever you say in 1st year, part of your 2nd year fees will still go to the union) USI is not a closed shop in that unions can disaffiliate if they like, and the unions are the actual members of USI, not the students*.

Local SU's are not funded by the State, I agree, but their funding is administered by the State. What about USI funds? Is it only a problem if the money goes through central funds before being given to USI? If there's an extra 5 euro added to registration fees, and that money goes directly to USI, is that okay? (It would be the same as UCDSU's money, right?)

Glad to see you have some actual proposals for how to cut USI's budget. How much money would this save?

As for the trade unions... its not as if you'd be getting money/facilities from local branches, is it? Anything you get would be from the upper ranks of the union, full-time bureaucrats earning far more than their members (and their members will probably never be consulted about it either). Sure, probably better than getting money from the state, but not by that much. And remember, these bureaucrats are all FF, FG, and Labour types, exactly the kind of people you say can't be trusted in charge of USI!

* and _that_ is an issue with the proposed fee that should be addressed. If it is introduced it will make USI a closed shop, because the government isn't going to bother tracking the affiliation of individual unions.

by The lab rat - choked by Hilpers bitter coffee Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:12

Commentary- Will the New Radicalism sweep to USI?
Student Politics this year have seen a huge shift to the left in UCD. For the first time in decades, a left wing exec has been re elected, council regularly passes radical motions, publications like UCD Schnews put forward alternative visions. Will the New Radicalism sweep to USI?
In the Red Corner-

The candidature of Rory Hearne for President of USI has set Belfield on fire. Rory, an ex President of TCD and a member of the Socialist Workers Party, has been a longtime grassroots activist in the anti globalisation, anti war and student movements, and has secured the votes of the UCD delegates to USI

In the Blue Corner-

Toryboy Ben Archibold, who boasts that all 66 votes of the North of Ireland USI delegates will go to the party of Margaret Thatcher, of which he is a proud member. However, after vigourous debate, Trinity Students Union in their council on Monday Night ended up backing Toryboy, underlying a sharp left/right divide beginning to open up on College Green.

Despite attempts made by Archibold to ingratiate himself with the left as a Tory who fights hard for "liberation issues", much of this is seen as pure rhetoric- one wonders whether the national liberation of Iraq or Ireland is included!

Thus, the USI Presidental race is beginning to reflect a deeper unease in Irish student life.
A radical left wing President next year could mean major headaches for a Government intent on the marketisation of education- and the Dept. of education will be praying its right wing hacks will deliver Archibold as their man in USI, ready to go into "partnership" and accept state funding.

Watch this space!

by Mark Thomas Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:33

no more cooperation with the swp. rory won't do anything for students, he will use his position to try to recruit new members for his party. don't vote for rory, don't vote for the swp. remember sahnnon.

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:37

You're not saying anything that hasn't already been said there. Bloody students...

by Morfeous Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:39

Rory works well with many others on the left- the Coke referendum victory in Trinity was acheived by a united capaign of Labour, Sinn Fein, SWSS and Independents.

Ben Archibold is a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party. Trinity hacks who support him are trying to red bait Rory because of his SWP membership, and his active role when President of TCDSU.

I'd rather see a red flag over Trintity than the Union Jack any day!

by UCD Head Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:43

Ray, thanks for replying to my postings. Ignore the trolls having a go trying to turn this discussion into a troll-fest

"the unions are the actual members of USI, not the students"

This is not true. It is the students that are members of the USI. If you look through th USI constitution you will see that USI is the students. In practice of course it's another thing. Much of USI officers work is with local SU officers and SU execs. That is a criticism that I have with USI officers. I think they should spend more time on the ground on day-to-day issues that arise in the Colleges.

"One of the problems with the closed shop is that its the result of collaboration between the union and the boss."

I disagree. A closed shop is a demand that is coming from the Workers' movement. It is essential that all workers in a particular workplace act together, ie that they are in one union. On a national and even international level there should be One Big Union. Workers' Unity is a fundemental demand for the workers' movement. It is a non-issue that individuals can pick and choose. Workers should be able to decide what Union to join, this should be a collective decision, not an individualistic one. For example the ILDA drivers should be able to make the case to their workmates and then join another Union- I oppose individuals leaving Unions off their own batt.
Back to the USI, It is a collective decision in the colleges to join or not to join. Yes, the nature of students you will have to join in 1st year, but that's because of 20-25% of membership are new each year. 1st years are totally within their rights to run a referendum to leave USI or amend article in constitution on compulsary membership. If successfull they will not be members in 2nd year.

"As for the trade unions... its not as if you'd be getting money/facilities from local branches, is it? "

I'm not too sure. But I imagine they would get assistance from local branches- SIPTU Education branch? USI are also well able to ask for assistance off local SUs.

by Me Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:44

So would I, so probably best to abstain.

by imcer Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:46

It's called trolling and aint strictly allowed in these parts

by VenusInFurs - UCD Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:51

Holy Hare Krsna and the sweet orphans! Your blatant sectarianism amazes even me Mark. Keep stirring...............

by Mark Thomas Tue Mar 02, 2004 16:59

If you want to achieve something you need to do the work. If the SWP is not given a lesson, they will carry on fucking genuine activist over for ever. This is a golden opportunity to give them a lesson. Don't vote for Rory. Don't vote for the tory either. Just don't vote.

by The hatchet man - Mark Thomas is a Comedy Product Tue Mar 02, 2004 17:13

The story is told of the English Regiment marching through
the Highlands of Scotland (when English Regiments were wont to
do such). As they passed through a very narrow defile, a voice
mocked them from above.

"I'm Red Rory of the Glen," the voice called. "And I challenge you!
Send up your best man."

The Colonel of the Regiment looked up to the hilltop and beheld the
BIGGEST Scot he had ever seen. His kilt-girthed form must have stood
7 foot and the Claymore in his hand would dwarf most men.

Again the challenge echoed across the hills. "I'm Red Rory of the Glen
and I challenge you! If anyone amongst you would dare to call himself
``Champion'', then send him up!"

The Colonel, unwilling to let this challenge to the flower of English
Soldiery pass unanswered, called over his Adjunct. "Major," he seethed,
"send up the Regiment's champion. I want this Scot's head!"

And so the Champion went forth. Up the hill he strode, confidence
in every step, to do battle with this Challenger. The Challenger
roared his mirth and stepped over the crest, out of site; the Champion
followed. Soon the sounds of battle rolled over the hill and the
Regiment waited. And then, THUMP Thump thump.... A head! Rolling down
the hill came a head. And then, from the hilltop, came the rumble of
the Challenger's laughter. "I'm Red Rory of the Glen! Again I challenge
you! Send up your best Squad!"

"Major," shouted the Colonel! "This cannot be stood! Send up the best
Squad." Up the hill forged the Squad, then over the crest to face the
Challenger. Soon the sounds of battle were heard again and then THUMP
THUMP THUMP Thump Thump thump! The heads of the squad came rolling down
the hill.

"I'm Red Rory of the Glen," came the voice, "and I challenge you! Send up
your best company!"

Rage contorted the Colonel's face as he screamed, "Major! Send up
Company C. I want that man's head and I want it now!" "Yes, sir," was
the only response, and soon Company C was advancing up the hill. Again,
from over the crest, came the sounds of terrible battle but this time,
floating above them, came the sound of the Challenger's laughter!

Slowly, the sounds of battle died away but still the laughter continued.
And then, from the top of the hill, came a avalanche of heads to pile
up around the Colonel's feet.

"I'm Red Rory of the Glen, and I challenge you! I have beaten the best
you have to send, now come yourself!"

"Major," said the Colonel, his rage now turned icy cold. "Take the
Regiment up that hill and destroy him! I don't want anyone to return
without his head!"

So, in good form, the Regiment marched up the hill and out of the sight
of the Colonel waiting at the bottom of the hill. This time the battle
raged for hours. Then as the sun sank into the hills, the Adjunct came
hurtling down the hill, his uniform disarrayed and splattered with
blood. His eyes spoke books of terror. "Colonel," he screamed, his
terror edging his voice with panic, "RUN, it's a trap. There's two
of them!"

by Major Woody Tue Mar 02, 2004 17:16

'grassroots' that is.

by bobby - IT Blanchardstown Tue Mar 02, 2004 17:19

i don't know much about the two candidates for welfare for usi....does anyone else?

by Ray Tue Mar 02, 2004 17:22

USI membership
Individual students can't join or leave USI, they don't pay subs individually, and they don't have (direct) votes for USI issues. Only SUs do these things, which means that SUs are the real membership. This has nothing to do with the amount of time USI officers spend 'on the ground'.

Trade unions/finances generally
Not being a student I haven't been paying close attention, but apparently USI is in serious financial trouble. The sabbatical candidates, and/or the member unions, should be coming up with plans on how to fix these finances. These should be quite detailed, identifying where exactly cuts will be made, and where new money will be raised.
The advantage of the 5 euro plan is that there's no doubt it would fix the finances. If you're going to put forward an alternative, you're going to have to make sure it is workable. In other words, will your cuts be deep enough, and will the trade unions cough up the cash. Frankly, I can't see local SIPTU branches paying to keep USI afloat. If I were in one of those branches, I'd have a hard time arguing that USI needs subsidising ahead of other causes. Head offices might help with facilities and so on. They should be asked _now_, so you'll know soon, otherwise this is pie in the sky budgeting.

Unions and the closed shop
You say the call for a closed shop is 'coming from the workers movement'. Can you be more specific? Which workers and unions have called for a closed shop recently?
As far as I know, most workers call for the *right to join the union of their choice*. That's entirely different.
Saying that workers should _collectively_ decide what union to join, and then enforce a closed shop, is asking for all kinds of problems. It makes it easy for management to set up 'yellow' unions - as long as they can convince a majority of workers to join that union you would be fine with forcing that choice on the other workers. It makes it impossible to set up breakaway unions - ILDA could never have started if everyone in CIE had to join the NBRU. It makes it impossible to switch to a more radical union - if you're fed up with SIPTU you can't join the ATGWU unless you can bring most of your workplace with you. Its a recipe for right-wing unions.
And how would you enforce it? Suppose we both worked in UCD, and it was a closed SIPTU shop, but I decide I don't want to be in SIPTU. What do you think should happen? Should I be fired? Should my boss continue to take money out of my wages and give it to SIPTU, whether I like it or not? What kind of union is dependent on bosses? And what kind of freedom is this?

As I've said before, I think student unions _should_ be a closed shop, because of the size of the new intake each year and because of the short time each student spends in college. Plus you pay to go to college, rather than get paid, and union fees are a small fraction of what you're paying anyway. (And frankly the relationship between students and college authorities is much less adversarial than a workplace, so the de facto collaboration of the closed shop isn't such a problem) Your argument is that students could vote to change it from a closed shop, not that it is one already.

Given that students don't have any choice about paying their union fees, and that these are collected by the state before being handed over to the SUs, having a new USI fee that is collected by the state and then handed over to USI is not such a big deal. If you're going to oppose it, then you'll have to come up with a better reason than because its 'State money'. Its no more 'State money 'than UCDSU fees are, and you don't oppose them.

by Ritchie Tue Mar 02, 2004 17:35

The reason USI offciers cant go and deal with students on the ground is because the local Unions wont let them! DO you remember in UCD Aongus Hourihane wouldnt let USI hand out the freshers pack we had paid for as students and he banned USI officers off-campus.
Its local Unions that stop much of the good work that USI officers could be doing coz they are petty about their squabbles with National Union. USI didnt stop campiagns happing this year it was colleges like NUIG and UCC that did it, by being to lazy to get their students out on to the streets

by AlternativeUlster - University of Ulster Tue Mar 02, 2004 18:24

First of all, let me say that I'm no supporter of the conservative party. I'm a student at University of Ulster, and I'm to the left of centre by anyone's reckoning. The Ard Fheis was great at the weekend btw.

But the attacks on Northern Area Officer Ben Archibald are downright stalinist shite, and the authors know it. How on earth can someone with his record be 'the department's man in USI'. I have spoken at length to him (he's the returning officer for my own Coleraine, and the things he's been noted for in the North are his political savvy; he has refused to support the tory policy on top-up fees, and his work with the trades union movement, through NIC-ICTU and the AUT ( http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=496673) , not to mention his support for the Creche workers at Queen's, not to mention his hardline stance in support of LGB and other autonomous (or as he insists, 'liberation') campaigns.

In short, Ben is not Toryboy. I have no idea what this Rory Hearne character is like, but he would have to be going some to beat Ben as a guy who harcvore, down the line, puts students first.

AU

by Some Alternative! Tue Mar 02, 2004 18:51

Uggh!

Raise the Union Jack over Trinity!

by Tony McDonnell - NUIG SU Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:11 su.president at nuigalway dot ie

Don't know where Richie got his facts but NUIG had no squabbles with USI this year - quite the opposite. Our officers attended all the National Councils, Working Groups etc this year and we had USI on campus all year - from the accomadation protests in september right through orientation, referendums etc. As regards laziness I'd happily put the record of this years SU in Galway up against any oither Union in the country and be confident. We had our students on the streets - not on the scale of last year (we had approx 5000 out for the fees protest) but we believe in keeping our powder dry. Incidentily we were the only southern college to send students to the fees protest in Belfast a few months ago.

by Trinity V UCD Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:12

It seems that the contrast between University College Dublin and Trinity College Dublin continues. TCD voted to back Ben Archibald (a conservative unionist), UCD will be backing Rory Hearne (socialist revolutionary).

Throughout the history of Trinity they have supplied this country with many conservatives and reactionaries. They even name a library after Berkeley who was a leading opponant of the French Revolution and was generally chief reactionary of the 18th/19th century. Trinity even gave us Edward Carson!

Throughout the history of University College Dublin they have supplied this country with many radicals. For example Medical student Kevin Barry was killed for his part in War of Independence. Throughout the war of independence UCD was raided by the Tans. Richard "Dirty Dick" Mulcahy ran his operations from Earlsfort Terrace during this period.

It seems to me that Trinity students are pretensious assholes that want to live up to this reputation of theirs. Why do you gits want to live up to your stuck up snobbish image? Everyone hates you.

Come the Revolution and we can re-name Trinity College Dublin to IT College Green.

by Bobby Vee Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:12

Shinner after Shinner are coming out in support of Ben 'Toryboy' Archibald. I thought Brendan Ferron was the exception, obviously not. I think someone from SF HQ should clear all this up because I still find it hard to believe.

As for him supporting LGB rights etc. So what! Of course its important that the president supports these vital campaigns but it does not take away from the fact that this guy is a right wing Tory. There is a large section of the Tory party that are 'liberal' on social issues, look at Michael Portillo. Don't forget the bourgeoisie are in two minds about discrimination, they need it to divide the working class on one hand and on the other they need a cohesive workforce. This is reflected in the Tory party as well as in FF/FG /PD etc.

Archibald is a Tory. He believes 'lobbying' is the way to defeat cuts and fees. He sees no role for students in defeating cuts except for a few setpiece 'demos'. He supports the USI being funded through state funding.

Hearne on the other hand does not see the government as our partners. He opposes USI taking funding from the state. He wishes to see a USI that is there for ordinary students not the careerists. A USI that sees the power of students as the main tool in defeating cuts not sitting down and having chats with politicians. Hearne also has a far superior record on LGB and anti discrimination issues than Archibald or any other candidate.

by ucd historian Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:21

UCD also supplied David Murphy who became the first prisoner to be elected onto Academic Council.

by George - NUI Galway student Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:38

Tony McDonnell is a Fianna Failer. He will of course deny it like all FF candidates for SU elections do. But I can confirm that Tony was a member of the FF party up until a couple of months before the NUIGSU elections. Despite not being formally a FF member he remains well contected with FF to this day. His closest 'advisors' in Galway as well as those campaigning for him in the colleges are nearly all FF hacks.

by not a ucd student Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:48

I can enjoy a good debate here, but the personnel slams on people and colleges are something that you would expect from a couple of 8 year olds in the play ground. If tcd voted for Archibald that’s their democratic right, and if ucd want to elect rory that’s their right too. Listen keep this to the facts not throwing around alligaations who is affiliated to which party or who spent what in going over to Prague. This is meant to be an open forum on who is best to lead the national union in a year where we are going to be hit hard by cut backs. Let’s grow up here and keep to the facts.

by Terance Tue Mar 02, 2004 19:59

It is not allegations that McDonnell is a FFer, Archibald is a Tory, McArdle is a FGer and Hearne is a SWPer, these are FACTS. T I think it is right that the electorate have all the info on the various candidates.

As for TCD being a bastion of elitism and privilage. I think this is a bit exaggerated, but one thing I will tell you from personal experience, there is an element among TCD students and staff (probably a minority) that are proud that TCD have this image.

by Tony McDonnell Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:05

No, I'm not a fianna failer, nor was I ever. I have never been a member of any political party at all, whatsoever, and i'm proud to be the only candidate to be able to say that. If you were a UCG student you would know this. This "advisors" bullshit is typical. I work in a Students Union, not the cast of Yes Minister. My "advisors" as you call them are the Exec, Class Reps and students of the College, not some PR firm or secret society of FFers. This is the second time i've had to defend myself against this allegation, and its beginning to annoy me - because I put myself forward for an election i'm suddenly fair game for annonymous hacks to slag off. Grow up.

by Dr Sinnott Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:07

Can someone please tell us how the various colleges are voting so far we have heard that

TCD are voting Archibald
WIT are voting Hearne
UCD are voting Hearne
UU are voting Archibald
QUB are voting Archibald
NCAD are voting Herane
NUIG are probably voting McDonnell

DIT and NCI are traditionally right wing and will probably not vote for Hearne

DLIADT, ITB, ITT are small colleges that have a working class membership and are pissed off with the current USI leadership, they could well back Hearne?

UCC were rumoured to be voting RON but this was before Hearne entered the race could they now switch to Hearne?

What about the others?? Can someone please fill us in. Could someone also tell us how many votes each college has,

by George Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:08

Tony you are lying, I know for a fact that you were a FF member and you left prior to your election. You even dumped your FF girlfriend when you made the break.

by Tony McDonnell Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:31

I was never a member, nor was i ever associated with them. I only started going out with that girl after i got elected and we broke up a few months ago. Like I said, if you were a UCG student, rather than some waster stirring s***, you would know that I am certainly not ff. Again, I reckon you are not a UCG student.

by George - NUI Galway SU Class Rep Tue Mar 02, 2004 20:43

Well what party did you vote for in the last election?

by USI Member Wed Mar 03, 2004 17:11

Calling him a Tory is a misnomer he has proved that he can organise campaigns and supports all sorts of liberations including Gay Liberation. Raising the State funding of USI is a red herring. The Socialist Party recieve state funding based on their having a TD. This funding comes from general taxation. Therefore the acceptance of state funding can not be seen as some sort of acceptance of Partnership.

Surely no one would argue that the SP have been compromised by accepting state funding?

by Jim Wed Mar 03, 2004 17:22

The SP recieve state funding but it is through their TD giving over some of his salary and through other expences that he gets. It does not have strings attached. The state could not bribe the SP as they recieve the state money on the basis of their electoral support.

With USI it is a different kettle of fish. USI will be taking a percentage from the capitation charge. USI are meant to be opposed to the capitation charge in principle and are meant to be for its abolition. However under the proposal they will materially benefit from any increase in the capitation charge. The government can if they wished bribe the USI with this cash, USI will also have an interest in maintaining the charge and even increasing it!!

by Ray Wed Mar 03, 2004 17:29

There are already two threads on the USI elections, and you've added nothing new. You're just taking up space on the newswire.
Threads now collated to a single USI one by R.Isible

by Harold Wed Mar 03, 2004 17:30

"Calling him a Tory is a misnomer "

No it is not he IS a member of the Tory party, he is a Tory.

"...he has proved that he can organise campaigns"

So what? The right wing enemies of Chavez have proven that they can organise campaigns and have street protests. The left do not have a monopoly on organising demos.

"...and supports all sorts of liberations including Gay Liberation"

Good for him, it still doesn't disprove him being part of the conservative establishment. The hated anti worker Tory MP Michael Portillo was in favour of these liberation issues. Remember the ruling class is in two minds over discrimination. On the one hand they need it to divide the working class and on the other they need an equatible society in order to get the best people for the right jobs as well as many other reasons. This is reflected in the establishment parties and the Tory Party. The Tory party just like FF/FG/PD have a socially liberal wing, they are still right wing anti worker anti student parties.

by USI Member Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:11

""...he has proved that he can organise campaigns"

So what? The right wing enemies of Chavez have proven that they can organise campaigns and have street protests. The left do not have a monopoly on organising demos."

As you well know I meant he has shown an outstanding ability to run USI campaigns. He has always supported USI policy. He takes his orders from the USI membership, not from the Central Committee of a Trotskyite Party.

Hearne showed himself to be incompetent as President of TCDSU. He was constantly ignoring mandates and doing his own thing. Perhaps most notoriously when he organised an occupation without even bringing it to TCDSU. SWP members from outside TCD were brought in to participate in the occupation. Non TCD SWP members went around with megaphones demanding that students join in the occupation.

On another occasion, TCDSU decided to hold a silent protest against a visit by Woods, this was out of respect to students who were studying for exams at the time. Hearne with a few cronies, mostly from outside TCD used megaphones.

If you have any evidence of Ben not carrying out a USI mandate then point to it.

by USI Member Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:15

"The SP recieve state funding but it is through their TD giving over some of his salary and through other expences that he gets. It does not have strings attached. "

Not correct. The SP recieve separate funding, approx €50,000. This is a fact, check it up.

It is obviously not a point of principle to accept state funding if the SP do so. Or are you saying that one law applies to the SP and another to USI?

Ray

This thread was started on 29 February. Why didnt you comlain about it then?

by Ray Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:18

I didn't check the date of the initial post.
Mea culpa.

by Realist Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:19

All sorts of organisations get state money. Community groups, sports groups, arts groups, counselling organisations. Are the Rape Crisis Centres corrupted by taking money from the government? What I am reading here is the usual hypocrisy from the trots. Its ok for them to take government money but not anyone else.

by Dr. Tom Garvin Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:20

I think that these idiotic attacks on Tony are just stupid. Tony, just ignore them. They've not got the guts to put their names forward on an internet posting never mind for an election.

I think that Dr. Sinnott's posting is interesting. Here is what I think about the bigger colleges.

UCD (28 votes) - Hearne
UCC (15 votes)- Hearne
TCD (22 votes)- Archibald
UU* (31 votes)- Archibald
QUB (31 votes)- Archibald
NUIG - McDonnell.
DIT (28 votes)- McDonnell

The smaller colleges will generally go to Hearne as they're more in touch with the issues and are generally of a more working class composition. He already has WIT and NCAD. It's likely that he'll also be backed by IT Tallaght, Mary Immaculate College, and DLIADT. McDonnell may pull out regional loyalty to get GMIT's vote. *Archibald will get all the Northern votes (66 in total) BUT University of Ulster will not send down a full delegation.

Unfortunatley for JP McArdle I don't see him getting much votes at all. Maybe a few individual votes from USI officers out of personal loyalty- but none of the block votes from the Colleges.

It's a 3 Horse Race: Hearne, Archibald and McDonnell.

by UCD USI Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:22

UCD SU are currently voting to re-open nominations

by UCDer Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:31

'The government can if they wished bribe the USI with this cash, USI will also have an interest in maintaining the charge and even increasing it!!'

Are you implying that a majority of USI delegates to Congress and National Council are so debased that they would allow tis to occur and continue?

by UCD head Wed Mar 03, 2004 18:55

"UCD SU are currently voting to re-open nominations"

Yes, UCD are currently going with re-open nominations HOWEVER the SU Council said that any change in circumstances (ie new candidate(s), etc) then the vote can be changed if 18 out of 28 delegates decide so. I think it's highly likely that there will be 18 UCD students on the delegation that will want UCD's vote to go to Rory Hearne.

by Funding Hack Thu Mar 04, 2004 02:24

First of all, congratulations to the Spart Foundation for Stalinist/Trotskyite Marxist-Leninist Funk Fusion Thinking for the attempt to slate USI's most effective officer. Ben's computer is down at the moment, but I know he'd be pleased that so many people are taking an active interest in his campaign.

First of all, on the issue of state funding.

There is no money offered by the government. There is no grant or loan on offer. So there is nothing to court, support or welcome. Ben is bemused at the whole thing; as he explained at UCD's Cominform, the proposed funding change is an administrative matter. That Paul 'Rebel Without a Clue' hasn't worked that out in time to let his Supreme Soviet know is of no surprise to anyone.

On the issue of independence: It wasn't much of an issue for Rory to accept (or should that be 'sequester' funding to jaunt off for 'solidarity' activities (read 'thuggery') in Prague, while clusterbanging TCD's finances. So Ben need take no lessons from Red Rory on that one.

On the issue of protesting.

Ben Archibald believes, and I quote "we shouldn't be afraid to take direct action'" against government, and "nothing is off the table with regard to campaigns; I will be led by National Council and the Deputy President".

Ben worked effectively with the INTO, the AUT, the NUT, the NASUWT, NIPSA, NATFHE in solidarity work, and stood on picket lines with staffers and creche workers in the North.

On the issue of politics, Ben and I have disagreements over stance, but he has never allowed external issues to affect his stance. He fell entirely behind NUS policy against the Conservative funding proposals as soon as the National Executive Committee voted against it. Although he did huff for a while!

The fact is, irrespective of what your little lefty noticeboard says, Ben Archibald's good points transcend any conception you have of his bad ones. He isn't perfect, but he's not a ckick in the arse off it.

-UUSU Hack

by LeninSpart Thu Mar 04, 2004 02:47

The stuff about Ben Archibald planning to fly a Union flag over Trinity flies in the face of the work he's done 24/7 against sectarianism in the North. It's a pity that National Socialism as expounded by the 'Red Rory for Chairman of the Board ' posters on this site hasn't gone away.

Join Ben's campaign. Don't see the Union handed over to the haters.

by talla Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:17

Rory Hearne will not be getting IT Tallaghts votes.

by Aishling O' Toole - WITSU Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:42

W.I.T are not supporting Rory Herne or that we are supporting J.P Mc Ardle. He has done a great job as Southern Area Officer and from what I hear he was a fantastic President in I.T carlow.

by Small College President Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:47

From what I gather most of the small will be voting for J.P Mc Ardle and so will nearly all the I.T'S. Us small colleges are sick of listening to shite from S.U officers ffrom big college's who only care about the sound of their oown voice.

by ITT Student Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:51

My understanding is that IT Tallaght are voting for Ben. Smaller colleges will see Rory Hearne as somebody who will not listen to them and will do his own thing. Is it true he once gave the finger to Nelson Mandela and threw eggs at his car? Nelson is probably not enough of a revolutionary?

by UCD Non-Lefty Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:05

If Rory Hearne can't count on his own college (which overwhelmingly rejected him) and can't count on some of the other small colleges he needs for support (and can't rely on the support of WITSU) then whose votes can he rely on?

Perhaps UCD's RON is a cunning ruse, (not particularly cunning since we all know Paul is behind it) and they're preparing to use the anti-democratic delegate selection mechanism to ensure an 80%+1 change to Red Rory.

It makes me sick to see my own college fucking about like this with the willl of the students. There is a revolution coming, and if I have much to do with it, dumb fucks like Dillon, Hearne inter alia will be the first against the wall.

Don't let Hearne screw USI like he screwed TCD. Another world is indeed possible.

Archibald 1
McArdle 2
McDonnell 3
RON 4

by Swinging Voter Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:08

Ben Archibald apparently told Joe Savage he has accepted that not all Northern Votes will come south of the border for the Congress. He says he needs to win the election all across the Island.

Can that happen? I rather hope so.

Ni Neart go Chur le Cheile

by VenusInFurs - UCD Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:14 cogstar at hotmail dot com

Ooooh, aren't you all feisty! I'm not going to waste my time replying as to why, as an elected delegate, i'm advocating a vote for Rory but you check on my post above. And just for writing that ridiculous little rant, I'm gonna eat your babies like all good commies should!

by Straight Talker Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:20

Ben Archibald is currently in pole position. Behind him is Rory Hearne and Tony McDonnell. JP McArdle hasn't a chance.

JP McArdle will not get southern votes as they all know him! There is the legend of the stamp licking and the missing saliva. Then there is the incedent with the counting of 10k cash. JP cant even lick envelopes or count money, never mind about running a national Union.

Ben is in the lead. He won Trinity and he will get any northern votes that come down. Hearne will do well. All tht crap about finances is right-wing rubbish, he ran TCDSU well. He probably will get UCD. By the way there was a democratic and open discussion about USI Congress in UCD. You can't blame the lefties if the right don't bother turning up for the meeting! Rory is the only anti-establishment candidate and is a student on the ground (not a full-time officer). Tony's vote has been cut accross seriously by Rory running.

MY CALL: I think Ben will win if he can get transfers. Tony and Rory will come close toghether. If either of these do well getting each others or JP's transfers then they have a chance of beating Ben Archibald.

by Interested Voter Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:58

What are these allegations about J.P Mc Ardle and 10k money.

by Anthony Friel - I.T Carlow S.U Thu Mar 04, 2004 13:03

I am the Presaident of I.T Carlow Students Union and I would be very surprised if J.P Mc Ardle did not get the vast majority if not all the votes from the Southern colleges. I know most of the Southern colleges have already declared their intentions to vote for him. J.P was a very good President in Carlow last year. He is a financial wizard and a great campaigner on the issues. A hell of a lot better than Ben Bullshit Archibald and Tony the T.D Mc Donnell as for Rory who he wont get a single first preference.

by Enough already - Small IT Thu Mar 04, 2004 13:22

It has been frustrating for me (a formed SU member of a small IT) to read the silly comments flowing back and forth about all candidates.

I know both Rory and Ben and have been around long enough to see them both in student union and other campaigns.

While Rory has proved himself to have strong leadership and organisational skills, they were not very apparent in SU deals, but more in relation to anti war and anti globalisation issues. This is highly commendable, but is it enough?

Like it or not, the new president of USI will have to leave their own politics behind, and act how the membership sees fit. If as people seem to think, Rory's views are so left, would he be willing to sit and be civil with politicians, who he ordinarily may have egged or protested against?

Ben is a strong all rounder, who regardless of his own personal or political view supports USI mandate. Not many people would openly defend an issue so fully, even those that know him are convinced he holds the same personal view.

Ben is approachable, respectful and can relate to others, which is not the easiest thing to do. From what I have seen,he has a knack for debating and would be supportive of all other campaigns. He would be equally capable of grassroots work as well as negotiating on behalf of the Union with the governent.

Another benefit is that Ben has been around USI for long enough to know what has been happening financially and has perhaps got ideas to bring USI to the fore.

In relation to the smaller colleges, every vote is one closer to winning. Do not be swayed by other colleges, meet the candidates and let them know they can gain your votes, or loose them. Nothing is finite, unless councils mandate.

Also, I find it offensive that people insist on bringing class into this. No-one can say IT's are all working class, have you met all of the students from these colleges? Do you know their stories? Never assume. Statistically, it may be correct, but people do not like being grouped.

Am I to assume, that IT's are only for working class? Wake up, start seeing colleges, and not IT's and Universities. Students are students, they have the same needs and wants, irrespective of where they study. And do not divide the colleges into sectors for the election either. Votes are votes, each individual vote has the same value, whether cast by Trinity,UCD,WIT, IT Tallaght, Mary I, etc.realise that.

by Observer Thu Mar 04, 2004 13:26

Hear hear to the last posting

by Shinner Thu Mar 04, 2004 13:45

It is true that a divide does exist between the IT Sector and the Universities. Like it or not this is a reality. That divide does not exist built on class however but rather it is a result of the Binary system.
When it comes to these elections, student unions will make up their own mind on the candidate, and the education sector from which they hail will have no bearing on their decision. As somebody who led a delegation to congress I looked at how they would move forward the National Union, not what college they came from.
P.S. JP will do really badly in this election. His inability to speak will act as his biggest handicap.

by Enough already - Small IT Thu Mar 04, 2004 14:10

Have also led a delegation to Congress twice. Being informed is the most import thing delegates should be. If you dont know the candidate or have not heard of them, do not simply exclude them.

Ben, Rory, Tony or JP, need to know it is not a glorified job, and things are getting leaner in all aspects the union. Whoever wins, will have supporters, but will also have those that hold them in contempt, thats politics for you.

by Davedave Thu Mar 04, 2004 14:25

if any candidate did think it was a glorified job they'd be mad. It's a shit-awful job, and I wouldn't do it for love or for money. And the money isn't great anyway; it works out about €250 a week ffs!

I understand that this would be a paycut for Tony and Ben.

What is really interesting here is this: If Ben is to have apolitical future, surely it would be in tanland, not here. So somebody explain to me how his politics could possibly fit into the job? I believe him that he's in the race because he thinks he can contribute somethign positive. And on records, as they go, I would have to say that it could be he's right.

by Dermot Looney - UCD SU Thu Mar 04, 2004 15:26

First off, fáilte roimh gach duine nua go Indymedia. Some of us have been on here for years. I hope you all don't confine your messages to libellous comments about USI candidates and get stuck in on other issues around this site.

Some of the lies and misinformation about UCD SU, our delegates, Council, President and, probably, personal hygiene have been undesirable, if understandable. It is quite clear that already this race to become the leading voice of 250,000 students North and South is messy and highly personalised - and that's only from anonymous hacks.

Some of the nonsense posted about the candidates is, however, worrying. Believe nothing on Indymedia. The crap about our Council and delegation is also shite, we had a protracted 3 1/2 hour meeting on the Wednesday following a 1 hour USI discussion on the Tuesday. Council is the most democratic body in UCD, more accountable and base-level than Exec or individual Sabbats. Believe it or not there are about 2 Communists in UCD - and neither of them are Councillors. Instead we had a broad concensus on a particular outcome from people across the board, from those heavily involved in Fianna Fáil and more conservative college societies to those who would describe themselves as anarchists.

UCD quite clearly has a reputation as a left-wing university amongst the random hacks who post on here. I'm delighted to say that they're completely right (forgive the pun). In terms of electoral strength, grassroots activism and effective lobbying, campaigning and action we have certainly made this university a better place, helping thousands of students in the process (while obviously making mistakes along the way). We're far from perfect, but I challenge any other Students' Union in the country to place their achievements alongside ours and beat us in the comparison.

Thus, the nature of the comments directed nice and anonymously towards us are disingenuous at best and vindictive personalised rants at worst. We will vote how we decide, and no diatribe will decide otherwise.

I and the rest of the UCD delegation look forward to a progressive, civil USI Congress and to working closely with those of you in attendance. A strong, campaigning national union is a must for the development of a student movement on the island of Ireland, fighting for a better deal for all students and equality for all.

by Anthony Friel - IT Carlow Student's Union Thu Mar 04, 2004 15:31 su_pres at itcarlow dot ie Carlow 05991 41304

Hello, although I am a fan of this website and often visit it, I would like to announce that someone unknownst to myself has been writing comments about certain candidates running for election and signing off on my name. I would like to state now for the record that it was not I whom wrote the previous comments on this page. I am fully supporting J.P for the elctions, however I certainly do not thnk Ben Archibald is a bullshitter (actually think he's a sound guy) and Tony is a TD (don't know Tony). I would like to wish all candidates the best of luck in the elections. Have a nice day. Cheers.

by Nil aon ainm agam Thu Mar 04, 2004 15:37

Tony were you not at the FF Árd Fheis in Killarney this year? Yes you were coz i saw you there, and did you not tell your exec this year that you wanted to leave USI

by Ray Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:09

Wow, some guy who won't give his name says he saw Tony at an Ard Fheis. That certainly convinces me! After all, who could possibly doubt the word of some guy won't give his name? Hey, some guy who won't give your name! Do you have any other things you'd like to tell us? Do you know who shot JFK?

by Richie Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:19

NUIG had no protest during your term as President because you refused to, please dont try and pass Leona's and Guilfoyle's work last year as your own! And as for some of your other comments surley the College is called NUIG not UCG or had you forgotten who you represent.
And as for you being in FF, the facts suggest otherwise, at least people like Archibald are admitting to former political affiliations, it says a lot about you if you dont.
And by way calling people who write on this website wasters is a bit rich, when you are doing it while being paid wages by NUIG students

by Shinner Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:32

Is the Ray who keeps posting the same Ray who is currently president of AIT?

by Ray Thu Mar 04, 2004 16:42

I'm not a student anywhere.

(Used to be involved in UCDSU, about ten years ago. And I'm very amused by all these comments that say one college is traditionally left-wing, another is right-wing, etc, etc, etc. Colleges don't have fixed personalities. The ones that are rightwing this year will be leftwing in five years time, and vice versa.)

by gaureenteed, Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:31

If you allow Rory Hearne to become president of the USI it will end up just like the IAWM which is largely run by the SWP. It will become inafective and out of touch and will see disafiliation after disafiliation. Also, if the National council vote against the direction which Hearne wants to take the student movement will he give assurances that he will abide by the democratic will of the Union and not go of on his own. As president Hearne would find himself at the bottom of the decision making tree and not the top. He will find out about a wee thing called democracy and he wont like it too much.

by Tony McDonnell - NUIG SU Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:51 su.president at nuigalway dot ie

Yeah, I was at the FF ard-fheis, just like I was at the FG one and going to the Green one on the 13th. Couldn't get time to attend the SF one. If going to an Ard fheis gives me a chance to talk to policy makers about education then i'll do it. Still dosn't make me a FFer (or a Green or Shinner) though.
NUIG is the offical name of the college, but most people still call it UCG. The first time I ever heard "NUIGSU" was on this site.
I certainly wasn't slagging the majority of posters with the "waster" thing, what i meant was one poster who claimed to be a Galway student and clearly wasnt. Thats wasting everybodys time.

by not a ucd student Thu Mar 04, 2004 17:57

I was President of a small IT when tcd was brought back in by Rory, I know the man is a good campaigner, I now that he would fight tooth and nail however being president in usi is not about being a campaigner you have to be more of an all rounder.

by gauranteed Thu Mar 04, 2004 18:08

I belive you tony, You wernt in FF and Gerry Adams was never in the IRA!

by Pinko Thu Mar 04, 2004 18:28

I saw Hearne's appalling antics first hand while I was at TCD.

Don't do it.

by Nil aon ainm agam Thu Mar 04, 2004 18:28

Ray, i told you so!
and dont presume im male

by Tony Watcher Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:10

"Yeah, I was at the FF ard-fheis.....If going to an Ard fheis gives me a chance to talk to policy makers about education then i'll do it."

Tony you are a FF sympathiser. Even if you don't have the membership card, we all know where your sympathies lie.

by OJ2004 Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:59

I have sympathy for FF as well; they need all the love thaty can muster, cause they're running out of friends fast.

On the ssubject of the election, however, let's be honest about the situation. Rory hearne is a guy who polarises people, they either hate him totally, or they think he's the best thing since sliced deli-style turkey.

Think about Questions and Answers, and Radio; we need somebody who knows the ropes and can come across as genial, while still scaring the shit clean out of the government. That ability to simmer gently is held by only one candidate in this election, and it's the Northerner.

Tony McDonnell is a nice guy, but he's an upstart with no real idea about the national issues or the complexity of really engaging in the political process. this is a guy who said that mass deportation wasn't a student isue, and then lied about being at FF Ard Fheis. I nearly went along for the craic; one of my mates is a big Dev fan, but it annoys me when people lie like that.

JP McArdle is a Fine Gaeler; he has a big fuck-off heart and a sound sense of purpose, but his judgement has to be questioned. Arguing that inviting Dempsey to a USI event would be like inviting H itler to a concentration camp was off the mark, and so was attacking steering at national council in derry.

Red Rory is a baiter; his judgement has been spectacularly wrong over many things, and he paid royally for that be being denied first a nomination and then the support of his own Trinity Colleg. Hand gestures at Nelson Mandela were appallingly ill-concieved (and his explanation that he did it cause he thought it was the Taoiseach doesn't help his cause at all.). He screwed Trinity's finances and had Sabb after sabb queuing up to slate him at his hustigs.

Ben Archibald is a tory. He said so himself, but let's be led by his record. i asked a few of our Chaidre na Tuisceart if they thought he let his politics get in the way of his judgement, and thay laughed; Ben even left his own party to work for the Student Movment. The fact is, there could be no favours asked and none given if he were in Ceann áras. He owes no political party anything, and the closest alliances he has at the minute are with the likes of Bernard Cantillon, the Labour Youth head, and Brendan Ferron, who's a fecking shinner!

Let's not use the phrase all-rounder as if it means some sort of compromise; Ben is a GOOD all rounder, and he will get things moving again. He's getting my vote, or they can send me home.

by - Fri Mar 05, 2004 13:11

The combined Student Unions of Spain yesterday entered the forthcoming General Elections to be held on March 14th.
According to organisers two million students took to the streets of Spain's major cities calling for an end to education cuts, guarantees of _secular and lay values_ in education, and the regime change instinctively felt to be essential to the continuing credibility of Spanish Democracy by this generation.
20% of educational institutes at both 2nd and 3rd level answered the mobilisation.
This section of Spain's young answered the call issued only a few days before to reject the PP (the reconstructed fascist regime party of Spain formed by Don Manuel Fraga and led for 8 years by Aznar and now fielding the Galician Mariano Rajoy as candidate) perception of them as :-
indecentes, drogadictos, ateos, vagos, rojos, anarkistas y terroristas juveniles
indecents, drug addicts, atheists, wastrels, reds, anarchists and juvenile terrorists.

For they are not, they are like their brothers and sisters in Ireland, the future of not only their country, but of Europe.

Let us all work for _Regime Change_

by trinity hack Fri Mar 05, 2004 14:12

hear hugh o'reilly has withdrawn his nomination...can anyone confirm this? also, we've heard a hell of a lot about the presidential candidates...what about welfare? I personally hope layne gets it. so much more qualified than ian from what I could gather from both their speeches at our council. pity to see two positions uncontested too, but at least they'll both do a good job.

by Bullshit spotter Fri Mar 05, 2004 14:22

Sorry OJ- but you are completely wrong about Hearne and the Mandela incident.It all happened after a talk by Mandela at a Tony O Reilly lecture.I was there near the front gates when it happened as we're several others i now. The car he made gestures towards was Tony O Reilly's car-and then security nabbed him and a whole story grew out of nothing- stirred up by right wingers in Trinity. So please OJ...GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT...

by Shinner Fri Mar 05, 2004 14:39

Just to talk about welfare, Layne Aston will do a great job. She has loads of experience and is under no illusions of the hard work ahead.

by Oj2004 Fri Mar 05, 2004 16:14

So, doing the fingers at a car as it exited his college is the sort of activity that we want to be promoting in a president of USI?

Why wasn't he in the Mandela lecture? FFS, the stories about Rory get worse and worse.

Perhaps we should all just unite and get this tosser out.

A different world is possible.

by Bullshit spotter Fri Mar 05, 2004 17:06

I never suggested that "doing the fingers" if thats what you want to call it at a car as it at a car as it exited his college is the sort of activity that we want to be promoting in a president of USI- why stop there it'll take more than the two fingers to shift scum like O Reilly's fingers out of Educationi this country...like the O Reilly Building in Trinity and Irish Indo computers for schools.
And the you slate him becausehe didn't go to the lecture. You'd complain if he did-because it was hosted by O Reilly- I think even if he could have go into it Hearne made the right choice not to go-it would have only given credance to O Reilly's sham lecture.
If we have a Tory at the head of USI nothig will be possible...your arguments are so weak its almost funny and all they do is show you up to be a right winger!
You've got your facts wrong ad all you can come back with is childish remarks...i hope your not helpig Tory Boy in his campaign or he's in serious trouble!
I say...
GOOD LUCK RORY...
...ANOTHER EDUCATION SYSTEM IS POSSIBLE.....

by McDonnell is a FFer Fri Mar 05, 2004 18:11

"Yeah, I was at the FF ard-fheis, just like I was at the FG one and going to the Green one on the 13th. Couldn't get time to attend the SF one. "

Will we be seeing you at the Socialist Party Conference then??

by Yes Dan.... Fri Mar 05, 2004 18:34

Here is my call for the USI elections. I personally don't want all these results to happen (personally I'd favour Rory Hearne), but it is based on my analysis of how SUs are voting.

President: Ben Archibald
DP: Johnny Tiernan
Education: Helled Fychan
Welfare: Layne Aston
Equality: nominations re-opened.

by Trindependant Fri Mar 05, 2004 23:11

I don't think Archie has it sewn up just yet; although he would if he put on the show he did for us in BAC1 all around the country.

The fact is, he's a bit of a chameleon, he can talk the talk. Strangely, I believe he can talk the talk as well.

I'm a bit of a Fianna Fáil head myself, which makes it all the more intriguing that he seems pretty clued up on stuff that perhaps he should know little about. Is it true that he's seeing Bríd Breanach? That would explain his sudden interest in the Irish Language.

As for the other no-hopers in the election... perhaps JP is the most interestign choice; he certainly has little in common with a FF government. If I were a delegate (which I won't be) i would be proud to use my vote to rule Hearne out of the race. He's a bollocks.

by cathal mcCann Sat Mar 06, 2004 00:53

I've have never seen so much tripe in my life
On TCD, im a student here, Our union is funded from the registration fee. The five capitated bodies are. UCD students pay an extra 50 euro or so with the reg fee.i don't know why, my brother is there, thats how i know. TCDSU gets all its finance from the fee, as do the sport clubs, societies, publications and graduates union. That is where most of the fee goes.

On TCd history we may have produced Carson, at the same time we produced Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmett, two of the original revolutionaries.

On the point that TCD will be voting for Archibald.
The vote was at council, all of the class reps.the candidates were der and there was lots of questioning etc. Archibald won by a mile, he actually seemed to have a few ideas on how to sort out USI

On Rory Hearne, he was questioned on several things he did spend union money going abroad and the union had to pay the costs of his deportation home.

However as the Pres he did do a few good things and protests did work in the Buttery etc but he left behind large debts
ON the USI vote the main issue was how the hell will the pres make USI solvent. Unfortunately its nearly bankrupt, and next year it needs to stay in existence and be made viable. Having loads of protests is grand but there's no money to fund it. It needs to get its act together. The colleges nationwide have done a great job highlighting the issues this year with minimal support from USI, but thik of how it could all be galvanised once the organisation gets back on its feet, that what it needs. And in all reality party politics will play very little role in it, and will UCD students stop posting such huge volumes of shite

by an actual trinity student Sat Mar 06, 2004 22:36

- "I don't think Archie has it sewn up just yet; although he would if he put on the show he did for us in BAC1 all around the country."

Well Trindependent, if you really were a TCD student you'd know Trinity is in BÁC2 not BAC1. I wish people would stop posting messages pretending to be someone they're not.

- "and will UCD students stop posting such huge volumes of shite"

I'll second that!

For those of you intent on proving Tony McDonnell is in FF, if you have any evidence of this, provide your evidence. Just saying "I happen to know for a fact" is not evidence. Jesus, aren't you people supposed to be in college? I'm beginning to doubt the admissions procedure of a certain D4 institution.

If Tony really is in FF then it's relevant because that would mean he's been lying. But I doubt he would take such a huge risk. It's pretty normal for SU presidentés to attend party conferences. USI's head honcho Will Priestly was seen milling around the Sinn Féin ard fheis yet he's not a shinner.

by Joseph Sat Mar 06, 2004 22:40

UCD student union also gets its money from the registration fee. The levy is for the student center.

by Pundit Sun Mar 07, 2004 19:49

If you think USI policy should br decided by RBB and Conor Kostick then you should vote for Rory.

If you think USI policy should be decided by USI Congess then vote for Ben.

by Nats Mon Mar 08, 2004 14:38

There's so much bullshit on here about Rory, if you want someone to stand up for students and not be a wishy washy 'i'm-in-here-for-my-own-good-and-don't-give-a-damn' eejit vote rory and you will be guaranteed he will campaign relentlessly and stand up to the gov. None of the others seem to have any backbone.

by Sysephius Mon Mar 08, 2004 16:44

Where's the evidence for lack of backbone from Archie? He stands up to discrimination and fees every bloody day, and he's got the good sense to actually consult with his people.

Vote Archibald

by Jeff Mon Mar 08, 2004 16:56

That gets removed the first day you join the Swappies.
So move along folks - no backbone here.

by USI delegate - UCD student Mon Mar 08, 2004 17:09

Archibald stands for a union that simply 'lobbies' the government as if they were out partners. This approach has been persued by the USI for years and has got us to a situation where fees are on the agenda, the registration fee is approaching a grand, €29 was cut from unis this year, last year there was a 17% in capital spending on education ..... Archibald sees the USI as its officers and sees the membership as only being handy as a backdrop for some photos so he can get in the papers and get the ear of a few more politicians.

Rory Hearne despite the flaws of the SWP is a genuine candidate. He is not in it for his career. He rejects this 'partnership/lobby' approach that has failed. He is not a mad loon as the right would make out. He sees the USI's greatest strength lying in its membership not a few hacks at the top.

The choice for delegates is clear. Vote for a candidate that will fight for students and will not be scared in really tacling the government on fees and cuts or vote for a candidate that woudl prefer to share a pot of tea with FF ministers while they discuss where to implements cuts and fees.

by Nuts Mon Mar 08, 2004 17:09

this isnt ucd nats. usi is actually importent

by tcd Mon Mar 08, 2004 17:12

Archibald is a career USIer. He is not actually a student, he graduated years ago. Hearne is actually still a student and is the only candidate who is. He is far more in touch than the other hacks squared.

by Hearne Supporter Mon Mar 08, 2004 19:10

First of all, Bernard would you stop putting up pro-Ben postings. No-one in your party wants Ben elected.

Now back to the more important issue. Rory Hearne is actually a student. He is not some hack that is years and years out of going to lectures, tutorials, seminars, labs, etc. Archibald has been a full-time officer for 3 years now. Same with JP McArdle. Tony McDonnell is a full-time officer, although only for 1 year at this stage and he has been at least located on a campus in the past year dealing with real students unlike the Tweedledee and Tweedledum of JP and Ben.

Rory Hearne is the only actualy student in this election. He is a student in the Department of Geography in Trinity College. He is a "voice from the shopfloor" in this election.

by TCD watcher Mon Mar 08, 2004 20:06

That's bullshit.

Rory was a student until 2000. Then he was an SU officer for a year, working for the SWP and travelling around the world for 2 years, and is now a postgrad research student. From the shopfloor? I think not. He hasn't been in a class since the first half of 2004, that's FOUR YEARS AGO.

Worse than Colm Jordan.

by Jockster Mon Mar 08, 2004 20:48

Does anyone bar UCD use indymedia - I love the propaganda - But what do i care - I've a vote in the USI elections and you don't - So stop trying to convince people - Anyone going to USI more than likly have some kind of head on them - So then they wont be swayed by UCD left or right wing natterings - So stop bickering amonst urself - and hopefully the right person for the job will win - the end

by shinner. Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:29

Numbers for Rory Hearne don’t add up. He will not get Ditsu or any of the other larger colleges. The reason for this is quite simple, the majority, in fact the vast majority of students, and indeed student leaders support the establishment parties and HATE the SWP. The only college in the country were the far left have a base is UCD. The only colleges he will get a vote will be UCD, NCAD and MaryI, this puts him on about 40 votes. That will not even come close to winning. He will not get any transfers, and he will go out pretty early on. Its just wishful thinking on the part of the far left that this guy might get elected. Also I hear that the North now intend to have near enough full delegations present for the vote. Like the Trinity vote last week Ben will win, Tony will come second and JP and Hearne will fight it out for last place. For gods sake this is the first time I can remember in six years that a guy running for president hasn’t got his own college’s vote secured.

by worried Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:52

Will Hearnes managment of USI be similar to the way SWP has run the Irish Anti War Movement. Last out turn off the lights.

by Thankful Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:00

A UCD fool said"Rory Hearne despite the flaws of the SWP is a genuine candidate. He is not in it for his career. He rejects this 'partnership/lobby' approach that has failed. He is not a mad loon as the right would make out. He sees the USI's greatest strength lying in its membership not a few hacks at the top."

So i'm presuming that Hearne wouldn't be looking for political gain from this, and using his increased profile to put forward his viewpoint and politics, somehting he'll try and cash in on in a few years when he goes in a general election.

by Bullshit watcher Tue Mar 09, 2004 15:40

The apologist for a "Save the Pound" Tory Archibald...You cant't add up... and you can't back statements with facts!
The comment that votes for Hearne will be based on whether someone hates the SWP doesn't add up with the number of votes he got in TCD and the number of lefties at the hustings meeting...the only thing that doesn't add up are your figures.

'UCD Tomfoolery' person you're sadly mistaken if you think that just becasue someone is not in a political party that they don't have politics and political viewpoint swhich they will air while in USI you are the fool, not the person from UCD! Is it not better that someones is upfront about their politics- not denying membership of parties as many FFers do!

BTW:
Comment by "worried Tuesday, Mar 9 2004, 9:52am" need only be posted once- don't need to read it twice.

by Trinner Hater Tue Mar 09, 2004 15:58

I think it is terible that Trinity students are Tory type conservatives. Over the years that college have produced many a right-winger and Tory. It seems that present day Trinners love that reputation and voted for Conservative Party member Ben Archibald. It's like when Trinity used to always elect Unionists to Parliament.

On the other hand UCD is more in touch with the working class. They are voting for Rory Hearne. They think it is important that someone is actually active as President and not sitting at a desk massaging his ego. UCD have produced many fine revolutionaries. from Kevin Barry to Joe Higgins, from the Gentle Revolution of 69 to the CFE of last year. This year a UCD student was even jailed for anti-bin tax protests. A fine student body in my opinion!

by Chicken Lover Tue Mar 09, 2004 17:10

- Was that Rory Hearne himself posting, under the name "Trinity Durtbags"? Angered at the lack of home support maybe.

- Aren't UCD the best? Their students end up in jail, wow what a great college.

- All us trinners are secretly attemption reunification with Great Britain.

- Before lectures we all have to stand up and give an oath of allegience to the Crown. Then we salute the picture of our queen and sing "god save [her]"

- And it is now compulsary to wear polo-shirts and cycle penny farthings around college.

- Women are again banned on campus.

- Such is the College of the Holy Most High and Undivided Trinity of Queen Elizabeth, near Dublin.

- Anyways we voted for Ben Archibald because he's the best candidate.

by Turkey Lover Tue Mar 09, 2004 17:20

You say you voted for Archibald as he is the best candidate. The thing is that you lot view him as the best candidate because he is conservative, opposes protests, and is a tory unionist.

And you're right the National University of Ireland, Dublin is a much better University than the College of the Holy Most High and Undivided Trinity of Queen Elizabeth, near Dublin. At least the students are more in touch. Fair play to all those UCD students that got jailed for bin tax protests. At least they have principles.

by Chicken Lurver Tue Mar 09, 2004 17:26

"The thing is that you lot view him as the best candidate because he is conservative, opposes protests, and is a tory unionist."

Right so, are you willing to back that up?

by Dave McCoy Tue Mar 09, 2004 18:10

Ah indymedia....the place where officers come to hide and bitch about each other under an alias....

If National Council was like this it'd be great
-we're all different,
-yes we're all different
-i'm not

by Aved YmCoc Tue Mar 09, 2004 18:13

Dave I think your great...your so insightful...blessed is he who is great.

by Dave McCoy Tue Mar 09, 2004 18:15

Thanks aved I appreciate your support...although i'm really not that great.

by Aved Ymcoc Tue Mar 09, 2004 18:16

Ah you are....

by Pygmalion Wed Mar 10, 2004 22:13

Once upon a time, there were four Knights who came from all over the Mystical Island of Usireland, into a great council. They were to decide once and for all who would govern the Island, and who would have to make do with getting real jobs.

The Knights were named "Jonathan the Feckin' Wise", "Tony the Card Carryer", "Ben the Frequently Misquoted" and "Rory The Red".

Jonathan had a big heart and a penchant for exotic dancing. Tony The Card Carrier was a Party Animal, who had been to every party in the land, Ben had a book on management and public speaking, and Rory had a load of binbags outside his front door, because he was refusing to pay his bin tax.

The Knights came together to discuss the situation.

Will, the King of the Castle, expained to them all the information he had on the treasury.

"We're fucked" he said.
"Yea, though we provided great service to the people, and rose them up against the oppressors, some monkeybrain spent half a million on rubber ducks and speed boats, and now there is not even enough money to feed the gracious Heledd, although she is a pretty one."

Jonathan had a heart attack. Tony dashed off a speech and vowed to form a committee to discuss plans he had already written up. Rory exclaimed "You're lying!" and Ben drew up a plan to tax all the citizens, and put a load of senior bureaucrats to death.

Straight away, people were confused.

"Where did toryboy get the idea to actually charge people money? Doesn't that go against his principles."

Rory exclaimed "I once heard Ben say that Nelson Mandela should be hanged, that milk should be extracted from pregnant women and fed to the rich, that students should pay for their knowledge, that foreigners should be deported, and that workers should be beaten, paid a pittance and force fed the columbian fizzy sauce."

Ben was bemused, and so he explained what had happened.

"Yea, you knew that my name among you was "Ben the Frequently Misquoted". I Never said any of that stuff, and it's all down to Rory and his chums who study in the bunker of Belfield. Yea, I shall rain down a furious anger upon you for your utterly facile and monkeybrained illogic. Or maybe I'll just prove you wrong, win the election and do my best to be a good President. Any questions, fuckos?"

Tony returned from the typewriter with his seven minute speech. People cried, and the people cast their votes.

Ben Archibald will fight and win for all of Ireland's students.

by Old skool hack Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:12

It's all very well encouraging delegates to vote for Rory because he has good plans - but shouldn't people be judged by their records not their promises? Ben has won the grudging support of the northern colleges he represents through his dedication, vision and sheer determination to work for students. He has consistently proved that he can leave his party politics at home and go above and beyond his mandates. According to all accounts, JP has proven himself to be naive, temperamental and vaguely stupid while working with USI. Tony perhaps is a little colourless but does seem to have a business head on his shoulders. But the biggest joke has to be Rory running on the "strength" of his trackrecord. No other one person has been so destructive to the student movement. No one (not even the much hated Evil Power) has used the role of president as a poltiical platform to the same extent. Rory robbed the SU blind. The SU nearly went broke that year and as a result there were two redundancies - good record with workers, Rory! TCDSU also funded all the material for globalise resistance (he engaged in secret pilfering/photocopying at night) and I don't know about other students but that makes me really angry. With so much hardship, so many corners to fight,
devoting so much Union time and money to planning The Revolution is unforgivable.
I actually shouldn't have written this because like Gambino, I think Rory just craves attention. Or maybe it is an extreme example of small man syndrome....

by khalid Thu Mar 11, 2004 20:41

"He (Archibald) has consistently proved that he can leave his party politics at home "

That is untrue and it is completely niave if you think once elected into a position someone can leave their politics at the door. Ben is a Tory, he is a right winger particularly on economic issues. Because of his right wing views he sees the USI and the student movement as merely a 'lobbying' organisation. He sees students as useful tools that one can wheel out when cameras are about. He does not see the SU's as bodies of struggle, bodies that will actively fight in the interests of students. He is also completely opposed to the idea of SU's seriously challenging the governments plans of cuts by linking up with trade unions such as the striking lecturers in the North and the striking public transport workers in a co-ordinated campaing to defeat and even bringing down the government.

Rory and the SWP have their flaws. I am not a TCD student so do not know anything about the finances of the TCDSU, but i find it hard to believe that the SU exec or council endorsed the spending of SU funds on the SWP. Accusations of financial mismanagment are always thrown at the left by the right wing of the student movement. These accusations always baffle me as it is the current clique of right wing hacks that have fucked up USI's finances, again look at UCD, it was the right wing FF regime that squandered cash on junkets, free drink, free tickets etc and didn't pay USI fees. While it was the left wing that argued against these spurious expences, argued for the payment of USI fees and have run a tight ship this year.

by Voter Fri Mar 12, 2004 14:05

I Have been involved in the SU for a while now & I have been talking to a lot of college's over the past few weeks and so far not that many have declared or at least openly declared for any of the Presidential candidates. Here is how I have been informed some colleges are going to Vote.

Ben Archibald- UU, QUB, TCD
Rory Hearne- No colleges have declared for him yet as far as I know.
J.P Mc Ardle- I.T Carlow (surprize, surprize), WIT, Tipperary I.T, I.T Tralee, LIT and Limerick Art College.
Tony Mc Donnell- NUI Galway.

This would put Archibald ahead Mc Ardle second, Mc Donnell third and Rory Hearne last. But there are still a huge amount of votes out there and anything could happen yet.

by insider Fri Mar 12, 2004 15:06

WIT is the only realy blok backing JP the other small colleges will have delegations ranging from 1 to 3 students. With DIT hustings happening next week its all to play for. Is anyone running a book.

by Interested observer Fri Mar 12, 2004 15:19

Tony has been around the smaller dublin colleges and looks like getting some of their votes

DITs hustings is next Thursday, watch this space to see how that goes

by SpinMistress Fri Mar 12, 2004 16:26

I've just about had enough of this nonsense about Ben Archibald.

It's clear from the posts that the people who are so vehemently opposed to him are people who have never met him.

In terms of leaving party politics at the door, Ben Archibald has always taken a very conscious effort to ensure that he his open about his politics when that's important. He also makes sure that they don't come in the way of his decisions. When he first sought election, I was there. I've been there since.

Ben Archibald's membership, in the past, of the conservative Party, was based on his honest unionism (He is of the opinion that Northern ireland is better off with a formal link to the UK) and his opposition to sectarianism.

He supported the Belfast Agreement, and wrote a document on it, which was published, and which qualified support, partially on the basis of the right of everyone on the island and worldwide to have an inherent right to self determination of identity.

Ben is not a right winger, as anybody within USI can tell you. He loves his countries, has done radio broadcasts about the importance of cross-border relationships, and lists Tone and D'Israeli as two of his political inspirations.

Ben's not the ogre you dimwits are trying to paint him as. He's certianly not as arrogant as Rory Hearne, he's not sitting in Belfield phoning around the country to bitch about USI, he's preparing to offer himself as part of a plan to put USI back on track.

Don't try to paint the guy as something less than human; he's more a man than Hearne could ever be.

by Richard Sinnott, BA, MA, PhD. Fri Mar 12, 2004 16:27

It looks like Ben Archibald is in the lead. He is followed by Rory Hearne, then closely behind Tony Mc Donnell. JP McArdle has no chance.

JP will only pick up a few small ITs in the South. Why does he not have the backing of UCC? Reason: they know what he is like! JP will come last.

Rory Hearne did not get the bakcing of his college becuase he has opposed the direction of them over the past year. Rory will pick up UCD, NCAD, UCC, and Mary I. I think that this will put him well placed to pick up transfers.

Tony will not do badly and will be fighting hard with Rory Hearne to get into the last count. I think that Tony has a good chance of picking up JP's votes.

Ben is the front runner. But he is not too far ahead. He could be pipped at the post by Rory or Tony on transfers.

All is to play for!

by Earlsfort Terrace Student - UCDSU/USI Fri Mar 12, 2004 16:32

Look here. Ben is a right winger. He is in the good damn Conservative Party (clue is in the name). What's the deal with attacking Rory for being in Belfield, at least Rory is on the ground in the colleges.

Bernard, why do you make up such a silly name for yourself? No-one in UCDSU or in your own Party (Labour) support you. I think it's about time you were whipped into line you idiot.

by curious Sat Mar 13, 2004 01:56

how many people who post on thios have actually talked to the candidates? or at least herd them talk? what i here is party hacks hearing the word "left" and instantly going "lets support" ; get facts straight.

by Bernard Cantillon - individual student Sat Mar 13, 2004 04:45

Hello all,
Firstly this is the first time in almost a year that I ahve actually posted anything on Indymedia, so the people that are on this link that people think are me are not actually me.

Few points, No one in Labour Youth or UCDSU supports me on this seemingly.

Well I have no quibbles with that. I never asked them for their support on this issue and don't expect that they will offer it. UCDSU has already made its big patriotic stance against Ben (which I disagree with, certainly that is true). Labour Youth doesn't have an opinion on the election for USI president.

I as a former officer of the national union reserve the right to have an opinion as an individual and as a member of USI. I think that Ben will be good for the USI. I think that Rory is a nice guy, but I still think that Ben will unite USI and I hope that the deal goes through, allowing USI's future to be secured.

I say this because I believe in the power of USI to alter and change this country, through lobbying (yes, lobbying, the most effective method of achieving change) and protests to backup the lobbying occasionally.

Some of the people on this link want the Irish Education Forum to take over the place of USI. I don't. I belive in a strong organisation that makes decisions by democratic vote and that is representative of students. USI is that organisation. It has flaws and they are numerous, but ultimately they are outweighed by the good that USI does. Even in the years that there is discontent among the membership, there isd muuch achieved. I believe that USI can achieve more for students with little effort than a local SU taking a very militant campaign. Maybe I've been institutionalised. But I think not.

Back to Ben. He is someone that I worked with and someone that I respected. I didn't respect everyone that I worked with and there are some people from last years Officer Board that I would be quite happy never to see again. Ben, though, is one of those people that I believe really cares for students and I belive that he is running for USI president because he wants to ensure that USI survives. I've nothing against Rory, I just think that BEn would be a really good president of USI.

I consider myself a Socialist and see no contradiction between supporting Ben and my political beliefs.

However, as a delegate for UCDSU to Congress, I will not breach mandate and I will not canvas against the Union's stance on Congress floor, just in case some of you are concerned. I agree with most of the policies that the Union in UCD has proposed. It was me at the Council Meeting in UCD that called for very harsh penalties for people who breach mandate at Congress. I will support the democratic will of UCDSU Council. (It doesn't mean that I won't cheer when Ben wins, though)

And for the ultra paranoid among you, just because I may be seen drinking with people that you have been told are some variety of something that you don't like, does not mean I am plotting against UCDSU. It might just be that I want to have a drink with some friends

Bernard Cantillon
The genuine article, not an impersonator

PS: just on the UCD/TCD thing. When Rory was President of TCD, we had Eamonn O Lionnain in UCD. Colleges flip back and forth. I am around long enough to see that.
And also, I actually think that TCD is more working class than UCD. Both colleges have a terrible record of people entering from outside the ABC1 and large Farmer category, but I think that UCD is full of more clones without a conscience than TCD. I hang out in both the Buttery (TCD) and the Old Bar/ Student Club(UCD) regularly and have to say that the Buttery is less pretentious by a mile (and cheaper!)

by USI Member Sat Mar 13, 2004 14:52

If we had a trully democratic USI, Colleges would not be able to block vote for candidates, and Bernard could vote for Ben

by UCD Student Sat Mar 13, 2004 16:39

Bernard, why do you support he financial deal with the Department of Education. You say you are a socialist. Fair enough, but why do you then support taking money from a capitalist government. Do you not think that will compromise the USI? Do you not think it unprincipled to take money off the people that we are opposed to? This deal may 'secure the future' of USI. But what is the point of USI if it is lame, weak and compromised with the Government. It's bad enough having some of the establishment chancers as officers, but now we will have our union financially compromised as well.

I respect that you will vote the way you're mandated to. Personally I have no problem with you drinking with people from other colleges some in UCD (including yourself!) may not agree with as you know them from last year. I do have a problem with you saying that UCDSU voted against Archibald for nationalistic reasons. Most there were not impressed with Ben or Tony as they were not putting forward any real ideas. All we got was soundbites.

My final point is about the whole Trinity V UCD thing. I'm a regular in the Student Bar & Hartigan's and occasionally go to the Forum Bar. In my opinion Trinity is far more stuck up than these places. Yes, UCD has it's jocks and Barbie girl types. But it has far more ordinary students from working class and small farming backgrounds. Disagree with you there.

by Bernard Cantillon Sat Mar 13, 2004 17:17

Just to clarify, I never meant that UCD voted against Ben on grounds of nationalism. the use of the word 'patriotic' was meant in a totally different context. I meant it in the sense that those that voted against Ben in UCD may have seen it as an issue of staying close to the true path of the left, whatever that might be. Apologies if I offended anyone with that. Ill chosen words.

Regarding the deal, UCDSU, TCDSU and every union in the country is funded from the registration fee at the moment. Paul somehow believes that this isn't so and that it comes from the money that was originally ringfenced for student Unions and other student services. As I have told him and others this is untrue. There has never been a ringfencing of the registration fee that was in any way standard.

Personally what I would much prefer is if local Student Unions and the National Union seperated themselves completely from the Registration fee debate and collected their affilliation fees directly from students at the start of the year or even twice a year. If maybe about €50 was collected, with a 4-1 split (local-national) at the start of the year, with every student expected to individually pay it. This would make more sense as every trade union expects its members to personally pay the monies. Grant aided students currently pay not a penny towards the cost of their union membership, yet are full members. The cost of their affilliation is paid by the state in a roundabout way.

However this is not an option available to us at the moment and for that reason I support any deal that will put the national union on the same safe financial footing as the local unions. It is not a matter of ideology, it is a matter of practicality.

Bernard Cantillon

PS regarding the UCD/TCD divide or really supposed divide. Both colleges are the most elitist in the country. Less people from working class backgrounds enter either than any other institution, bar the private colleges. I personally think that the TAP programme in TCD is working out better than the New Era Scheme in UCD, but both are somewhere far below whereb they should be.

by khalid farouk Sat Mar 13, 2004 22:53

Bernard, is this view held by a majority of your colleagues in the Labour Party?

by Bernard Cantillon Sun Mar 14, 2004 00:10

I have no idea whatsoever whether people in the Labour Party have even any idea that this election is happening. I am offering my opinion about someone who happens to be a candidate in my capacity as a member of USI and it has nothing to do with my membership of the Labour Party. I am slightly appalled that there are many people on the Left in the Student Movement who are unwilling to delve any further once they discover that someone has an affilliation that they don't like.
That is perfectly ok, but don't claim that it is the socialist way. Socialism is about doing the best by ordinary people and making sure that ordinary members of USI have the best possible leadership. That is what I am doing.
Bernard Cantillon

by dumb Sun Mar 14, 2004 00:32

It's as stupid as asking what USI's position on the leadership of the Labour party is. Don't you people ever see past labels? You're playing Virtual Politics again. Easy for students to do. Get this statistic. About 99.99 % of the Irish population don't belong to a cult-like party. They can think freely. Why does the 0.01% spend so much time on Indymedia?

by tired of hearing this shit Sun Mar 14, 2004 06:13

And let't not forget, for any of you morons who were actually at any of the USI presidential hustings, Ben Archibald left the tory party a long time ago for good reasons. Can't the left ever get past our own prejudices?

by UCD Class Rep Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:00

Bernard the guy is a right winger, he is part of the current USI establishment. They have ruined the USI and have further made it into an ineffective body that most of its members couldn't care about. What is needed is a fighting union that is not afraid to take on the government. Archibald does not stand for such a union and does not represent a step in that direction. He supports financial deals with the state, I believe his election will create a further a barrier for the student movement.

Bernard you will say that Ben is progressive on gay rights issues, he may well be. But surely he is not any more progressive than Rory Hearne?

by Sysephius Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:57

Ben Archibald is not in favour of deals with the state, or the receipt of state money; which is just as well, because the state isn;'t offering us any money.

The 'deal' you lefties misunderstand is actually a new administrative arrangement; a new way to collect moneys from the students' unions for the purposes of affiliation.

The state's involvement is as an interlocutor and advocate between USI (by which I mean the Students' Unions) and the colleges during the set-up period.

After that, in the words of Friedrich Engels, der staat sterbt ab: the state withers away.

As for him being a right winger, he is anti-euro-for-britain, against european intervention on inter-state trade, doesn't support tax cuts before services improvements, and believes that education should be free. Take your pick.

The fact is, Ben is clued in on the Student environment, lives with and works for students, and isn't deluded by some abstract failed socio-economic compact which only works in laboratory conditions. He believes students should be free.

From his website:

" I believe that education is a right, and should not be treated as a privilege.

I believe that students should not be saddled with a burden of debt to pay for education, which is, in the final analysis, a benefit to society.

I say that all students are equals, that they all have individual lives but share some common needs and rights, which are constantly under pressure from government and society.

I believe that every student has the right to live with dignity and self respect, health and happiness.

I believe that, in Ireland, USI is the only body able and fit to represent those rights and to exact their realisation. USI is a vital voice in the international student movement.

Every member of USI should freely be able to buy into those principles; they are principles that can bind the Union together. I pledge myself to uphold those and the principles which led to the establishment of USI."

by USI delegate Mon Mar 15, 2004 13:14

It is a deal with the state. The money is coming from the registration charge. The USI is meant to be opposed to the registration charge and any increase in it yet if USI accepts the deal they will be askignthe government to increase it.

What happens if the government wish to abolish the reg charge? What will USI do? call for its retention?? Can you not see the conflict of interests.

If USI are in furhter financial crisis what will they do? Call for a further increase in the charge?

If this deal goes through it will allow the government to ram through future fees and cuts by simply buying off the USI or threatening the USI with its funding.

USI should be funded by its members. Local SU's and students would be willing to pay their subs on time and in full and maybe even increase them if USI was relevent to students. Currently it is not, local SU's don't pay because they don't see USI as important or relevent. If USI was a fighting democratic body that seriously did take on the government then the financial crisis would be half solved.

by reader Mon Mar 15, 2004 13:16

It's very easy to write the right stuff in manifesto. The key thing is what is his record?? He is part of the USI establiushment, he has shown that he is not interested in seriously engaging in struggle but instead wants to continue with the current ineffective approach of USI. He will be a disaster for USI. His election will only see further disillusionment, financial crisis and disaffiliations.

by Sysephius Mon Mar 15, 2004 13:31

I agree, USI should be funded by its members. So does my northern homie.

Perhaps UCD would consider paying what it owes.

It isn't a 'deal' in the sense that you want to make it sound. It is a new administrative arrangement. which routes money destined for the SU out of the system at source, thereby cutting down on adminstrative time and cost for each SU.

It only comes from the Reg Charge because that's where the money comes from FFS. And the concept of the reg charge 'paying for' the su is merely conjecture, since ring-fencing clearly isn't happening anyway. Colleges must be funded, and SU's must be funded.

Ben will call for the Registration charge to be dropped, since it is a barrier to access for poorer students. There should be a new funding regime, and it should be from general taxation. Ben has said so.

As for it being easy to 'write the right thing' in a manifesto, that's where you're wrong. I know him, he probably spent no time on that section at all, because it's what he believes in. Ben is a pretty 'take it or leave it' sort of guy; I just hope for USI's sake we take it.

by OJ2004 Mon Mar 15, 2004 13:37

The lefties on this board are getting all confused.

Of course the membership should pay for the organisation if they want it to continue existing; that's what Ben's been saying all along. The fact is, USI needsthe stability of someone with the balls to say to colleges 'no deals' and someone who can ensure that it's the interests of USI he will take as his guidance.

Rory's interests are Rory, Rory, Rory, while tony has 'Management, Management, Management, JP has 'Feck, Feck Feck' and Ben is the only wone to diversify with "Education, Financial Stability, pride in USI'

Don't get so upset, lefties.

by UCDSU class rep Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:10

It was the left wing that argued the strongest that USI fees shoudl be paid by the Hourihane/FF regime. In fact it was the left wing of the UCDSU that took it to the UCDSU Independent Appeals Board. The left in UCD have always tried to build USI into a fighting organisation that will act in the interests of its members. Unlike some in the current USI leadership and those going for election at congress the UCD left actually campaigned strongly to continue affiliation in a referendum.

Tis years left UCDSU has paid in full all fees that it owes this is despite USI completely insulting the UCDSU. During the year a motion was passed unanomously by UCDSU council calling on USI to take action against the jailing of one of its members yet USI sat on their hands.

by Bullshit Ben Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:13

"Education, Financial Stability, pride in USI"

The education Ben stands for is a corporate privitised education, he is a Tory and believes in the free market.

The financial stability Ben stands for means turning the USI into a arm of the government.

And how can Ben bring pride in USI? He is part of the current leadership that have brought nothing but ridicule and contempt to the USI from it very own members. I am not proud of USI, I will only be proud of it if the current leadership of hacks and careerists are kicked out and genuine fighters put in their place!

by UCD leftie Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:16

UCD left's record re: USI and payment of fees

Check out the link

by No to Hearne Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:21

The small bunch of disaffected who cannot believe in anything unless they can control it. The truth is that most students, in fact probably about 98% vote for establishment parties and they control USI through National Council. Unless, like the anti war movement, you wish to remove democracy from the organisation you will have to follow the majority decision. The SWP have wrecked enough mass movements recently. Keep away from USI

by Hearne supporter Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:27

I would say look at what FF/FG/PD have done to USI. It is in bits, disaffiliations happening all over the place, financial crisis....

the SWP have their flaws this is acknowledged by most of those in the Rory Hearne election campaign. Nevertheless Rory will campaign for a USI that will not be doing deals with the state and will be prepaerd to take on the government in a way that is needed if we are to defeat cuts and fees. The election of Rory will be a major step forward in the USI. Vote Hearne no. 1 for a fighting union!!

by massman Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:33

"The SWP have wrecked enough mass movements recently. Keep away from USI"

First off the IAWM is no longer a mass movement, it is essentially a collection of politicos and middle class cranks at this stage. It is not just the antics of the SWP that have caused its problems, there are others to blame and also you have to factor in the fact that there is not a load of real people involved in it.

USI is not a mass movement either. USI currently is an organisation that really does have the potential to be a mass movement but is held back by its corrupt and rotten leadership to such an extent that it is nothing more than a club of sabbatical officers and other hacks.

by SanctumSanctorum Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:46

UCD can't be blamed for all of this stuff.

USI isn't effectively a mass membership organisation; but we don't need a 'Chief' like UCD apparently does, and we don't need the SWP to sweep in with their party trick of making big organisations smaller.

USI needs to be on a slow burn right now; it needs someone to work hard to ensure that stability is retained in the movment, that activists are well catered for, and that the campaigns don't lose too much momentum with the reduction in numbers of officers. We don't need a manager, nor do we need a commie to embarrass us.

For those reasons, after reading the manifestos and discounting the manager Tony, the embarrassing Rory and the frankly over the top JP McArdle, I'll be voting Ben Archibald.

I'm no tory lover, but I don't get the feeling he naturally fits the bracket either.

I trust him to do a year's hard work.

by Redzer Mon Mar 15, 2004 14:51

"UCD can't be blamed for all of this stuff."

Pleeeeeeaase?

by OMFG! LOL! WOOT! Mon Mar 15, 2004 16:47

People have forgoten the other officers: Will Jonathan 'Horndog' Tiernan be any good working with any of these creeps?

I heard he's backing Toryboy, but can anyone confirm that?

And Toryboy seems to be getting on very well with Ms Aston. What is the craic there?

Not doing his Tory credentials much good.

by USI Observer Mon Mar 15, 2004 17:45

Of course Ben is getting with Layne, cause he knows that she has 4 votes,

by Liam Mon Mar 15, 2004 17:48

Has anyone heard who is running for the 4 regional positions? I know Ben and JP aren't running again. Anyone heard anything?

by WTF Mon Mar 15, 2004 17:55

I agree there what about the other positions / candidates

by AlternativeUlster - University of Ulster Mon Mar 15, 2004 18:20

I've heard rumours that Andy Ward (QUB), Damien Kavanagh (Qub) and Sarah Vaughan (UU) are going to battle it out for the northern officer. QUB or UU? Which will win.. that is the question.

by wtf Mon Mar 15, 2004 18:30

The Eastern area officer position is prob going to be abolished

by hack Mon Mar 15, 2004 18:34

David Murphy (UCD), Pat Maloney (NCI) and Patrick Nulty (TCD) are rumoured to be running for Eastern Area Officer.

by wtf Mon Mar 15, 2004 18:39

Never heard of any of them

by shinner. Mon Mar 15, 2004 18:50

eastern area officer will go at congress. the region want rid of it. very sad. slan to the tallaght officer. a wee bit of a tear to the eye.

by USIboi Mon Mar 15, 2004 20:02

David Murphy (UCD) - Well known and popular class rep in UCD. Was jailed for protesting against the bin tax and made history by being elected onto the Academic Council from his prison cell with 79% of the vote.

Pat Maloney (NCI). - Again a popular guy around the NCI campus. He has been one of the main people behind the presidency of Bob Quinn last year. Is not thought to be a PD like Quinn.

Patrick Nulty (TCD) - This guy was narrowly pipped in the TCD presidential election a few weeks ago. I'm sorry to say I don't know too much else about him.

by Dave Murphy Supporter - UCD Mon Mar 15, 2004 20:41

I think it would be great to see Dave elected as Eastern Area officer. I went to the protest for his release here in Belfield. I think that he is the type of person we need in the USI, not the self-serving hack scum that currently infest it. Go Dave!

by ... Tue Mar 16, 2004 01:44

...... "It is a deal with the state. The money is coming from the registration charge. The USI is meant to be opposed to the registration charge and any increase in it yet if USI accepts the deal they will be askignthe government to increase it. "

How do you think the SU in UCD gets its money? From the registration fee! Wake up.

...... "USI should be funded by its members. Local SU's and students would be willing to pay their subs on time and in full and maybe even increase them if USI was relevent to students. Currently it is not, local SU's don't pay because they don't see USI as important or relevent. If USI was a fighting democratic body that seriously did take on the government then the financial crisis would be half solved."

It's not the choice of sabbatts in a local SU to just not pay. If they want out of USI they have to call a referendum, otherwise they owe the money to pay for USI if the students voted for it. It's their money after all.

by Wednesday Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:06

If we actually paid our money into USI, they would squander it on information campaigns, campaigns against racism and homophobia, training students' union officers, representing students to government and education agencies, participating in the international bologna process, developing links with other NGO's, sport, networking, lobbying TD's and that stuff, and none would be left for the techno boom-funk Marxist Trotskyite Leninist Mint Choc Chip Anarchosyndicalist Revolution that's coming in just a few weeks...


Oh, shit.


I see what you mean now.

by p o'neill's cousin. Tue Mar 16, 2004 13:05

FOLKS ONCE AGAIN I REPEAT. EASTERN AREA OFFICER WILL BE GONE AFTER CONGRESS. P.S. DID DAVID MURPHY GET PRISON ISSUE TOMMY HILFIGGERS OR BRING HIS OWN TO THE JOY. I bet you cant get a decent Cappuccino in there either.

Must admit he did do a great job with the bin tax protests. the government must be ready to cave in any day now.

Reveloution - Coming to a bedroom near you!

by Arts Student, Belfield. - UCDSU Tue Mar 16, 2004 15:03

Prison is not a hotel. Prisoners only get one shower a week, one change of clothes a week. The facilities are a disgrace. The library is completely inadequate in Mountjoy and there is a big problem with space and overcrowding. Prisoners in the main prison do not have a toilet or wash facilities.

My class rep David Murphy was sent into D wing of Mountjoy for protesting against privatisation of local services and the introduction of stealth taxes. I think he made an honourable stand and showed great sacrifice and dedication. Most of the USI officers do not have the guts to seriously take on the government, they are only hacks. I wonder if the government took out High Court injunctions against anti-fees protests would USI officers have the guts to break the injunctions and possibly face prison. My guess that they would not. They didn't even have the guts to show solidarity with a Class Rep that was jailed despite the strong wishes of the UCDSU Council and the students in David's faculty who elected him to the Academic Council by a landslide. USI - you are spinless scum!

by David McCoy Tue Mar 16, 2004 15:24

Sitting on our hands.....? not to labour a point but USI has 250,000 members not just UCD Class Rep Council - there is little or no interest around the country to support a student organisation becoming embroiled in these protests...

As it happens the issue has not even been debated at USI national council..i.e. no union has brought it up for discussion...

On elections....there is no left/right divide in USI and political parties thankfully don't put forward candidates in any other union outside the universities...this idealogical divide is the figment of peoples imagination - the best candidate for president should be the one who drives the organisation forward in the democratic interest of its members.

Thank god i came from GMIT..where students are the issue and not political motives and ideological bullshit...

by sarcastic prick( Dave and his gleaming silver car) Tue Mar 16, 2004 15:39

For our last friend I doubt any USI except one that was ran by the SWP would be good enough. This organisation would have to bomb the government (excluding the British as this would up set their relationship with the pup) into submission. Anything less would be spineless. Accepting electoral mandates - spineless. Accepting that USI is a democratically elected body whose members decide policy, once again spineless. I am with Arts student, lets take the 99.9% of students who are not of the left and don’t support splinter groups like SWP or SP and shoot them, or better still re-educate them. The revolution is coming, I can feel it, two weeks max.
p.s you are right, Dave Murphy is a modern day hero. Where can we buy statues. Why have none been erected - its a shame.

by SP OPPERTUNIST Tue Mar 16, 2004 15:47

"Protesting against privatisation of local services and the introduction of stealth taxes."
Slightly off the point but interesting that socialists no longer call it bin tax protests. Some re-branding going on after the project has failed.

Vote Ben for pres.

by Dermot Looney - UCD Students' Union Tue Mar 16, 2004 16:04

If you're expressing support for a candidate or choosing to have a go off people why are you all so afraid to use your real names? Abusive and anonymous, it's all so easy isn't it - truthfully it harms any point you're trying to make when you haven't even got the bottle to attach your real names.

Reading all this crap about Dave Murphy is depressing. Dave is a fantastic student activist who has been involved in many campaigns, both student-based and broader. The circumstances of his imprisonment are appalling to anyone with a basic interest in the basic right to protest and political association. He went through disgusting conditions in Mountjoy Prison for weeks for a cause that he believed in, for a protest that was peaceful and, let it be said, one that enjoyed considerable support amongst the Dublin people. Like or not the tactics employed, Dave Murphy did not deserve to go to jail and to have a few pathetic shadowy characters on here to insult his good name is indicative of the kind of gobshite politics that goes on around this country.

by Larry Hagmann. Tue Mar 16, 2004 16:11

I agree with you dermott. Great when UCD, Dublin 4, Law students do somthing for the poor people and not as a way of elevating their political ambition. you go girl!

by Dermot L Tue Mar 16, 2004 16:36

...being a Dublin 24 Arts student of course. Have you ever met/talked to the bloke on any level?

This champagne socialist crap really is just that - crap. Plenty of the activists in UCD are working-class, myself included. Many others aren't, not that it matters!

by Larry Hagmann Tue Mar 16, 2004 16:48

Yes actually, had the bad luck to talk to him several times. A complete narcissistic fool. The world is wrong and he is right. He is not a socialist, he is in with the cool crowd till he graduates, runs for the local elections, realises nobody gives a flying fuck about his politics, curses his looking for coming to the Socialist youth table before the KBC and gives it all up and goes to work in a bank. A well trodden path would you not agree?

by Dermot L Tue Mar 16, 2004 16:58

" A complete narcissistic fool"

Stop lying, anonymous coward. An absolute gent is Dave, anyone who knows him will testify to that - stop your trolling and go back to your sad little existence

by larry hagmann Tue Mar 16, 2004 17:15

Well if you say it then it must be true. After all when was a socialist wrong? He chose to go to prison, now he should be held a hero. Get a life, fight real fights, when was the last time you volunteered in you community and did something that will really create an egalitarian society, I chose to slag opportunists off because that’s what they are, OPPERTUNISTS.

by Dermot L Tue Mar 16, 2004 17:56

"when was the last time you volunteered in you community and did something that will really create an egalitarian society"

Do it all the time - do I have to justify myself to you?

"I chose to slag opportunists off because that’s what they are, OPPERTUNISTS."

I really hope that was ironic.

by Oisín Kelly - UCDSU Education Officer Tue Mar 16, 2004 18:25

I think that the posting by Dave McCoy really shows up the nature of some on the USI officerboard. When saying this I have to say SOME of those on the officerboard, many were very supportive of David Murphy and sent their solidarity greetings to him in Mountjoy which he greatly appreciated. David also greatly appreciated the letters of support he received from SUs around the country.

I think it terrible that a full-time officer for the USI will come onto Indymedia to attack a Class Rep that went to jail for standing up for what he believes. The jailing of David was an attack on civil liberities. The injunctions used against the bin tax protests were draconian and must be opposed by any right thinking democrat. The injunctions banned people from protesting against the bin tax, attending meetings, distributing leaflets, or "in any way whatsoever" opposing the non-collection tactic of the Councils. David was not even named on an injunction! he was deemed to be "acting in concert" with those named.

Dave McCoy is right to point out that USI is an organisation of 250,000 and has to look out for everyone's interest. This is exactly the reason why USI should have been to the forefront of the "Free Dave Murphy Campaign". Similarly the USI should oppose the imposition of injunctions against Farmers protesting as has been done recently. A fundamental principle of a Union is defence of its members interests and standing by the rights of its members. You should not even have to wait for National Council meetings to support David or any jailed protesting student.

The UCDSU Council did vote to launch that campaign and hundreds of students in the Faculties of Arts, Celtic Studies and Human Sciences voted for David Murphy in the Academic Council elections where he got a massive vote. This should not be ignored by the USI. The very people that campaigned for staying affiliated to the USI were involved in the Campaign in UCD and feel very betrayed by the USI for their inaction. Saying that it did not come up at National Council is ridiculous as David's jailing happen in between NCs and it was brought to the attention of Officerboard members.

David Murphy is a active class rep that is well respected by his class, his faculty and other class reps. He has campaigned on many grass roots issues in his local community (which is Kilnamanagh not D4 by-the-way) and in his College. He has shown great dedication and commitment going to prison. This contrasts greatly with others in the student movement. Dave McCoy should also remember that there are thousands of working class people opposing the imposition of stealth taxes and privatisation in Dublin. Furthermore, he should remember that prison is not a hotel. I visited the prison and witnessed the disgusting conditions that prisoners have to face.

Whether you agree or not with the Bin Tax, you should acknowledge that the use of injunctions against peaceful protests is wrong and should be opposed.

by Roibeard Ó Ruanaidh - NUIGSU Tue Mar 16, 2004 18:59 robert.rooney at nuigalway dot ie

He is a ffer.... as simple as that!

by Pat Boland Tue Mar 16, 2004 19:00

He was breaking the law and so he went to jail. We live in a country of law and order, thank god. We cannot take an al a Carte approach to which ones we should abide by.
The above post has nothing to do with this thread anyway and should be removed. Discussing the elections to USI and not bin tax's. Wake up Oisin.

by Badman Tue Mar 16, 2004 19:18

He broke the law and went to jail simple as that. Just like the Fianna Fail politicians who robbed the country blind while tens of thousands were emigrating and continue to do so today. Just like the property developers and tax exiles who steal millions off the desperate. Er, actually I seem to remember that they didn't go to jail...maybe their crimes weren't as serious as taking part in a protest??

by pat boland. Tue Mar 16, 2004 19:21

I agree with you totally. Should not be one law for the rich and one for the poor. All who break the law should feel the full weight of the law and be sent to jail if the courts feel it necessary. Point well illustrated. Thanks badman.

by The Insider - USI Officer Board Tue Mar 16, 2004 22:33

JOHNATHON TIERNAN withdraws from election - Deputy President and campaigns Officer now up for grabs.
The only candidate for the position of USI Deputy President/Campaigns Officer has withdrawn from the election.
Johnathon Tiernan (St Pat's Drumcondra SU) has withdrawn from the USI election for Deputy President. This means there will be no election for this position at USI congress next week. The other positions will be filled as expected.

The Deputy President will now be elected at the last National Council of the year in June.

The withdrawal of Tiernan opens up the possibility of a left wing candidate running for the position of Deputy President - any takers?

Are you listening UCDSU?

by Rank Outsider Tue Mar 16, 2004 23:07

I don't believe you are on the "USI Officer Board". I don't believe that such a body would issue such a statement under a pseudonym. I don't believe that anyone has withdrawn. I think you are just a mischievious troll. Prove me wrong.
Can someone credible please put up some accurate information on this?

by Ian McGahon Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:25 ianmcgahon at hotmail dot com

Hi all

I have only just come across this site

I am running for the position of USI welfare officer. If anyone has any questions they can post them here or email me at the address above.

I've also found all manifestos here

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63766&search_text=usi

by USI member Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:54

Well the DIT hustings are on tonight, it'll be interesting to sse how things pan out there. If Arachibald gets DITs votes which is highly likely then I think the Presidency is his

by Robert Rooney Thu Mar 18, 2004 13:22 robertrooney999 at hotmail dot com

Someone, who is obviously not from NUI,Galway, has posted a comment in my name.

[email protected] does not exist, as anyone who had done the most cursoury check on the "Find People" section of NUI, Galway's home page could have found out.

Futhermore, I know that Tony McDonnell has never been a member of Fianna Fáil, and I have verified this fact with the Cumann de Barra Secretary for this year and last.

by Got ya Ben! Thu Mar 18, 2004 13:50

See this link asap:
http://www.nistudents.org/sections/officers/000045.php

Under section on Ben Archibald:
"and is a PROUD member of Conservative Future, the youth wing of the CONSERVATIVE PARTY. He lists 'mucking about with computers' as his major hobby."


These words speak for themselves...
No to the Tory!!!
Keep Right Wingers out of USI...
...oh and that makes Ben a liar too! But we are used to that with Tories!

by Whats the point? Thu Mar 18, 2004 15:37

"7 December 2003"

Em, sorry to disappoint but its now march, its now 2004, and its been noted how he is no longer a member.

by Frenchie Thu Mar 18, 2004 15:42

Where and when exactly are the hustings on tonight in DIT?

by USI observer Thu Mar 18, 2004 15:43

Cathal brugha at. 6:30

by Ben is the Best Man for the Job! Thu Mar 18, 2004 17:00

Ben Is the only candidate that will actually attempt to change anything within USI! Thats why Trinty Students are voting for him over one of their very own!

Go Ben! Go!

by Does anyone care about students Thu Mar 18, 2004 17:32

The fact that people posting to this topic have not replied to the link below shows they don't really care about students just political ideologies

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63666&search_text=USI&results_offset=30

by Pundit Thu Mar 18, 2004 18:29

Ben archibald USI candidate is really a Tory.
A "proud member" infact. I've visited:
http://www.nistudents.org/sections/officers/000045.php
and I'm annoyed that he would lie to us like this.
How can we trust him?

by Torywatch Thu Mar 18, 2004 18:54

"and is a proud member of Conservative Future, the youth wing of the Conservative Party. He lists 'mucking about with computers' as his major hobby."

Is he proud of what Thatcher did to the Miners 20 years ago? Judging by this statement he clearly is.

Tory Boy Ben in his suit

by Vote Hearne! Thu Mar 18, 2004 18:56

KICK OUT THE TORIES!

VOTE HEARNE!*

*BUT HEARNE MUST ABANDON SWP OPPURTUNISM AND ANTI DEMOCRATIC TENDENCIES!

by Dave McCoy Fri Mar 19, 2004 02:59

The jailing of any student is regrettable.....for whatever reason....

USI officer board has no collective opinion on the bin protests...we received no mandate on behalf of National Council.

As western area officer i am mandated by my region to oppose the bin tax protests.....sin é sin....this does not mean i or my area support the jailing of any student for peaceful protest.

Again its not an issue of the working class or any other 'class' its an issue of whether usi collectively has a part to play in these protests....i welcome the chance to debate the issue further at any forum though...

by hack Fri Mar 19, 2004 09:53

I'd just like to say well done to Ben on winnning DITSUs votes

by uberhack Fri Mar 19, 2004 18:20

Why doesn't Rory run for USI dep pres - Ben as President and Rory as Campaigns officer would be a good mix!

by uberhack II Fri Mar 19, 2004 18:32

Why doesn't Ben run for USI dep pres - Rory as President and Ben as Campaigns officer would be a good mix!

by uberhack I Fri Mar 19, 2004 19:45

Cos Ben'll make a good prez!

by Wimple Hackenbaum Sat Mar 20, 2004 02:01

Ben has not paid affiliation fees to the Conservative Party for three years, therefore he is not a member of the Conservative Party. He makes no bones about his political views. he is small 'c' conservative; he believes that actions widely accepted and taken by free individuals within the society are the best way to govern one.

He is and has been committed to student activism throughout his career at queens and NUS-USI.

As for the trained chimp with the 'Conservatives do not = democracy' and 'Vot for anybody but Archibalad': Ben is involved in this campaign to ensure that the education system can get better; perhaps then correct application of the English language will be less of a trauma and less of a big ask for you.

by UCD Class Rep Sat Mar 20, 2004 14:04

"we received no mandate on behalf of National Council"

You recieved an overwhelming mandate from UCD to take action. On SU council only 4 councillors voted against the motion calling on USI to take action, this is out a body of 100 members (which are elected in competitive elections unlike USI officers). Also at an Academic Council election that took place in UCD 79% of students voted for David Murphy and the anti Jailing candidates. THERE IS YOUR MANDATE! Stop hiding behind technicalities and bureacracy, national council only meets every few months, how can you really say that every action taken by USI needs the backing of this body.

The majority of UCD students were against the jailing and USI did nothing. UCD were not looking for too much, a demo with USI backing and maybe a token speech from a USI officer was all that was being asked for.

The issue of injunctions used to smash democratic protest movements is very important. They were used against the anti bin tax campaigns in a draconian manner, they were used against protesting farmers and they could and probably will be used against the USI and students if we take action against fees and cutbacks. The USI should have used David's jailing as an oppurtunity to say to the government that they will not tolerate these tactics by the government. Now that they didn't the government will only see the USI as a weak organisation that will capitulate to the courts.

by Proud member of USI Sun Mar 21, 2004 17:39

USI would be so much better without UCD, dunno why we fought to keep them in. Anyway I'm going down to vote for Ben

by UCD student Sun Mar 21, 2004 19:03

USI needs UCD's money, UCD is the largest university in the country.

The fact is that UCD is the only union in USI that has actually been more than just a union in name. It is the only union that actually acts in the interests of its members and not just a tiny elite of hacks like all the others. I hope the UCD delegates give those USI hacks hell over the next week!!

by Molly - Hearne supporter Tue Mar 23, 2004 04:36

It's only student politics. Fact is, while everyone on this wire might care passionately, most of the student body don't give a rat's ar*e. They're far too busy living it up away from home for the first time, getting pissed, getting into sports and societies, studying, photocopying lecture notes, counting pennies etc etc etc... Most haven't ever thought about politics beyond knowing that the polititians are usually corruptand power hungry, that it's all a horifically complicated and confusing load of old b*llicks and surely all the candidates are pretty much the same old sh*t. They couldn't tell you who the current president of USI is, don't care, hardly know who their own SU president is.

What is a Union anyway? Should it just be a platform or a preparatory playpen for the TDs of the future? Isn't a union about its members? It's about just those members, those students who don't care, who mistrust, who have their own concerns. It's not just about Finance and Mangement, it's about Inclusion, Inspiration, Action, Mobilisation! For Jesus' sake if students won't take a fresh look at the world, who will? Should USI be a dusty reflection of real national politics? You're only young, irresponsible, open, alive, (relatively) responsibility-free once in your life! Then you get old, jobbed up, suited and uniformed up, busy, knocked up, bored, afraid, apathetic.

Bring on the Marches, that's what I say. Use your meetings to solve the finances, bicker, and keep the boring stuff out of my face. Then wake up and remember how any union has ever achieved anything - by Fighting - by Taking to the Streets! Please give union members an inspiring figure head (not a leader - the Mandates will be followed, there's too many checks and balances in a democratic system of this size and transparency for them not to be - it's a dumb argument) Someone to help blink the sleep out of the eyes of the MASSIVE student body and wake up and realise their power! Take to the streets in thousands and media coverage will follow, political pressure will follow. It's the only way they will stop pushing students around. Don't let them bring back in the fees. Proclaim your love of peace. Get aware, unite under USI - all students in all of Ireland and all their commonalities - not their differences, their individual problems. Shout your brains out and have fun. Get students passionate about all those things they latently believe in - like peace, like justice.

The great thing about it is that a student rally, organised by someone like Rory Hearne, will have all the benefit of his SWP showbiz expertise, but none of their banners - students united as Students and Residents of this country not as a Party. (Well - at least not a monopoly of their banners - and the resentment and alienation and misrepresentation of ideals that can follow from this). Let the man with the Loudspeaker wake students up before it is too late, before the rot of the rat race sets in. Maybe then they will bring something more than a piece of paper into the "Real World", maybe some memories of a change they once helped to effect, a knowledge of their power, a knowledge that the world does not have to be the way they tell you it must be.

This crazy f$$king world cannot be helped without those people who don't really give a damn about politics - because they're the clever ones. The keeping out of the sh*t-pile ones. The voice of the voters, the unions, the people. The ones that should give a damn.

But, I don't think that Hearne will win. I just wish he would. Because I think the time is ripe for something to happen.

And will any of those students be reading this far into this ridiculous ping-pong slander slinging wire? Will they hell - it's only you who have already made up your minds ... And I who should be using my time more wisely at this stupid hour on a Monday night. Sleeping. Dreaming.

Saoirse agus Siochain

Molly and Ed the cat

by NCI Student Wed Apr 07, 2004 17:33

Who is Pat Moloney?