Tohill - I wasn't kidnapped

by fear faire Mon Feb 23, 2004 13:57

Tohill told reporter in hospital that he had not been kidnapped and that he was going to go to solicito to make a statement to that effect. He is not bringing charges against the men arrested. Tohill claims the incident resulted from a fight and a misunderstanding. He also states that he has not spoken to the PSNI nor make a complaint.

by Err yea Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:08

whatever happened you hardly expect me to become a grass do you?

by Janus Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:30

While I'd certainly share the deep cynicism of the last poster, at the same time this statement will take the heat off the Shinners to a certain extent, no matter how transparent it is. If the RUC were planning to press charges of kidnapping it's a bit difficult when the 'victim' is a witness for the Defence.

by Weird Professor watch Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:37

Seeing as how McIntyre was drinking with Tohill beforehand.
The Professor sure does have with strange drinking buddies for one who pontificates so much on human rights etc.

by pat c Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:43

the old guilt by association trick. it used to be used (and still is on indy) against against anyone who defended the provos. times change. you will find that McIntyre associates with people across the political spectrum. McIntyre has clearly stated that he opposes the campaigns of the dissident republicans.

by Leon Mon Feb 23, 2004 17:23

who you associate with tells other people something about you.

In a community based campaign you might work with anyone who was willing to get active but if the most effective activist had alot of weird racial theories you might be lairy about getting involved with other activities with him or her.

by b.storey Mon Feb 23, 2004 19:29

tohill is known as a no mark throughout ireland. even the dissidents don't want him.
he is a gun for hire. for mcintyre to be near him shows very bad judgement.
its time for the blanket to wake up and shrug off its association with this no mark.

by pat c Mon Feb 23, 2004 19:46

in the iawm, the sp & swp associate with reformists from the LP, Greens etc. does that mean that through your guilt by association "logic" that the SP & SWP are responsible for the actions & policies of reformists?

by concerned democrat Mon Feb 23, 2004 19:58

Lets face it the IRA are not on ceasefire. They continue to be engaged in punishment beatings and low level sectarian attacks. They are still recruiting and stilll have an arsenal. The governments should take off their kid gloves and tell people the facts of what the IRA are still up to.

The government also need to start a propaganda campaign that informs people exactly what the IRA got up to in the 1970s and 1980s. I am very concerned about this rise in latent support for the IRA/SF.

by another concerned democrat Mon Feb 23, 2004 22:51

How about a propaganda campaign to reveal what Fianna Fail got up to in the early nineteenth twenties ..... before they became all respectable and got into bed with the property developers .....

by Socialist Tue Feb 24, 2004 13:08

"The governments should take off their kid gloves and tell people the facts of what the IRA are still up to."

How about the government telling the people what it is up to.
Numerous shoot to kill incidents, Special Branch, Article 133, dodgy dealings with developers, off shore bank accounts, relations with Burma, Shannon warport, etc, etc.

Get real concerned democrat.

by Concerned Activist Tue Feb 24, 2004 13:21

Other things the government were up to were:
Running the Garda Heavy Gang, setting up non-jury courts, releasing armed British soldiers who had been found on the 26-co side of the border (at a time when Irish citizens were being kidnapped and killed), treating the British 'intelligence services' with kid gloves while trampelling on the rights of Irish citizens to due process.
Or to put it it in one word: Collaboration.

by sf-watch Tue Feb 24, 2004 14:40

SF/IRA are terrorists. They are not on ceasefire, they are still engaged in extortion, protection rackets, drug deals, punsihment beatings etc etc. SF/IRA should be barred from the NI exec and the upcoming elections.

by Canteen Kevin Tue Feb 24, 2004 16:27

Thanks for the incisive and original thoughts. Hope you feel better after getting that off your chest but may I suggest in future that you write to the right wing media who regularly regurgitate the same infantile idiocy.

by Democratically Challenged Tue Feb 24, 2004 17:33

If you are concerned for democracy please ask yourself how :

Norn Ireland was created against the wish of the majority and ignoring an election result

how this artifically created statelet survived as the only command economy ( the state provided the majority of jobs ) in the West and survived the collapse of the USSR ?

How state terrorists in the RUC/PSNI, UDR/RIR,UVF/MI5 and UDA/UUP/DUP managed to go about their business with the support of the British government.

That the architects of aparthied South Africa wanted N.Ireland's repressive legislation because it was more undemocratic than their race laws..

How in 2004 the will of the people can be ignored by a right wing and racist British government

Be concerned about democracy..very concerned

by defender Tue Feb 24, 2004 18:53

"how this artifically created statelet survived as the only command economy ( the state provided the majority of jobs ) in the West and survived the collapse of the USSR ?"

First off, it was not a planned economy, it was and still is a capitlaist economy. In any case the fact that in the north the public sector is stronger is a fortunate by product of the troubles and the public services that workers enjoy in the North should be defended from New Labour attack.

by observer Wed Feb 25, 2004 01:48

You miss the point completely don't you? Most of the state employment referred to was/is part of the state repressive appartus. No-one said anyhing about a planned economy. Command was the term used.

So what's the slogan "Defend the deformed colonialist state"?...... anyone?

by ? Wed Feb 25, 2004 02:52

Democratically Challenged

what is a command economy?

are you saying that in the north the majority of jobs are part of the repressive state forces?

You claim that the majority of jobs are in the state sector, is that true?

are you suggesting that the British economy is like the economy of the USSR?

are you saying that public sector jobs should not be defended? if so is that a view that you share with New Labour and the tories?

by observer Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:00

Well, I didnt actually use the term, it was someone else, but it describes an economy that is largely directed by the state, not necessecarily planned in the sense that the USSR allegedly were. Nazi Germany was a command economy, as are the Arab dictatorships such as Syria, Libya etc.

I don't think anyone said that the majority of jobs in 6 cos were in state sector but a large proportion of state jobs would be police, prison, UDR, Brit army, and the large civil service back up to that.

If you are suggesting that we "defend" the jobs of the above, I would say no. Fuck them.

by Democratically Challenged Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:35

The six counties is famous for its discriminatory employment practices, which would not of been possible if the colonial power had not provided over 60% of the work.

The State provided all the benfits to those who collaborated with its sectarian policies of divide and rule..and jobs in the public sector was one of the ways of rewarding servitude..as it has been through out the British Empire.

Today we are still living in the legacy of partitionist colonialist rule, where those who cry about my politics being Tory or Blairite..cannot accept that these failed British parties have no legitimate claim to rule in Ireland.

A Socialist Republic based on a federal Ireland with economic and social democratic ideals enshrined in the constitution.

Our Day Wil Come

by night nurse Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:53

It would be disgraceful if the Mr Tohill, who is supposed to be a genuinne republican collaborated in any way if the PSNI and the british legal establishment, to bring criminal charges against his peers. If Mr Tohill had turned to the british lackey PSNI, for rescue and protection, it would totally discredit his political integrity.

In this day and age nobody should have to rely on the patronage/protection of a corrupt and unjust police service.

This petty incident has been used by the anti peace process, anti GF securocrat establishment police service to once again try and unlawfully expell a democratic political party from participating in the democratic peace process.

Lets remember other farcical events recently such as the other fabricated special branch black ops propaganda stunt, ie the alleged non existant Stormont 'spy ring'. Recently the defendants involved in this case who've been held on remand have had to be released due to lack of any substantial forensic or corroborative evidence.

by John Meehan Thu Feb 26, 2004 15:32

Anthony McIntyre's Account of the Tohill incident is here :

http://lark.phoblacht.net/kcam.html

by Prof watch Thu Feb 26, 2004 18:47

McIntyre, who recently used his online anti SF journal to call rightly for a boycott of Coca-Cola, has no problem going to McDonalds with lowlife (who he never fails to elevate to victim status). I wonder what he washed his Big Mac down with.

by alan Thu Feb 26, 2004 19:55

MacIntire did not say he ate anything.

by rooster Fri Feb 27, 2004 00:43

Straight out of night nurses ira handbook!

by eeekkk Fri Feb 27, 2004 00:48

The stuff about the blanket eating in mcdonalds - classic

by observer Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:24

does not buy his own food or drink ..... on principle

by pat c Fri Feb 27, 2004 19:33

There are some devious characters who are intent on misrepresenting McIntyre. He was meeting Tothill to conduct an interview. He was acting in a journalistic capacity, just as Indy heads do when they interview people. The fact that you are using the interview venue to attack McIntyre shows how sad you are. To hopefully prevent further misrepresentation (sigh) I am posting the full article below.

Kelly's Cellars

Anthony McIntyre • 25 February 2004
I can recall last Thursday being a busy day but why it was so I can no longer remember. Nothing in particular stands out. Other days that week saw me doing ten mile jaunts in preparation for a sponsored walk on behalf of Palestine, attending a SEA conference in Derry, or meeting with the Green Party to exchange ideas. So when Geordie McCaul rang me to say that he wanted to be interviewed by the Blanket, I was relieved that he didn't want to do it there and then. I told him we could meet the following afternoon to which he suggested we should hook up outside Kelly's Cellars in the town at 5pm. Not having met him previously, I asked for a description. It is embarrassing going up to someone only to find out they are not who you thought, and then they look at you as if you have some contagious illness. He then told me he was in the company of Bobby Tohill and asked if I wanted to say 'hello'. I half-groaned. Bobby had spoken to me on the phone a few weeks earlier, seeking to have himself interviewed by the Blanket. It had slipped my mind and now I felt guilty. Bobby had been in the news lately as a result of conflict with Provisional nationalists and was eager to present his side of the story. I told Geordie, 'put him on.'

Bobby Tohill is a rapid fire speaker and my capacity for absorption had to call on its reserve stock to keep up with him. The gist of his concern was that he had been contacted by a reporter from the Andersonstown News who had told him that his name and considerable personal details were on a loyalist website, and the paper wanted to talk to him about this. He aired the view that the Provisionals were setting him up for assassination. I suggested that he be careful but explained to him that I would be meeting with Geordie the following day and if he wanted to drop by for a few minutes he would be more than welcome.

When I reached Kelly's Cellars the following afternoon I almost accosted a guy on crutches, thinking that he must be Geordie who, I imagined, would still be showing the signs of injuries sustained as a result of being shot in the legs in his mother's Twinbrook home last month. As he walked on by, ignoring my importuning eyes and probably thinking I was about to tap him, I scanned the street for a sign of the next man with a limp. Only minutes passed before Bobby and Geordie emerged from Kelly's. Both had a drink or two taken but neither were drunk. Geordie suggested that he and I head for McDonald's restaurant to do the interview. Seemed reasonable enough to me, as long as we did not have to break any lefty picket lines outside it. Besides, the pungent aroma of joints wafting from the Cellars convinced me that were I to sit in there I would emerge more stoned than knowledgable.

Before we set off, Bobby explained his predicament. He had given a lengthy interview to the Andersonstown News just an hour or two earlier in which he claimed to have told the paper that the Provisional movement was setting him up to be murdered and make it look as if the loyalists were responsible. What was the evidence for that I pressed him? He then reiterated what he had said the previous day, referring to the loyalist website. I suggested to him that it sounded more likely that the cops or loyalists were stalking him - how could the Provos upload material onto a loyalist website? He was not reassured. I then cautioned him about drinking in Kelly's Cellars if he genuinely felt that the Provisionals wanted him dead. He was defiant: 'what am I supposed to do - hide away from them?' We then slagged him that they would wait until he was full drunk some night and run him over with a car, pretend it was joy riders and then turn up to carry his coffin and pronounce him a strong supporter of the peace process. He winced but laughed. We shook hands, he returned to the bar while myself and Geordie headed across Royal Avenue to McDonalds.

An hour later, interview completed, I was walking up Castle Street. I passed a security cordon at Millfield and saw a car sitting in the middle of the road with its doors ajar. The PSNI were swarming the place and with exaggerated authority were directing vehicles towards the centre of town and away from the area of the seemingly abandoned car. I walked on thinking to myself, 'Real IRA, freeing Ireland again with useless bomb scares.' Ten yards became twenty but hardly any more before I got a call from Geordie McCaul who had just reached Kelly's. His voice was excitable as he explained to me that drinkers in the bar had told him the Provos had came in, battered Bobby to a pulp and put him in the back of a van which had them been stopped by the PSNI at Millfield. All of this while we were sitting in the alcohol free environment of an upstairs table in McDonalds. It was hard to take in. There was a sense of the surreal to it. The Blanket had interviewed Geordie in order to highlight an attack on him which he insisted was the work of the Provisionals. And in the course of that interview a man we had been speaking with just an hour earlier and who had expressed fears for his own safety, was apparently hauled from a bar after having been ferociously beaten. It seemed we were on a treadmill, using all our energy to go forward but ultimately ending up where we started.

Media reports since then, in particular the graphic detail provided by the Andersonstown News, have conjured up mental pictures of a mafia bar scene assault in the film Goodfellas superimposed on a subway attack by droogs from the film A Clockwork Orange. It should have reminded me more of gangland London during the reign of the Kray twins than republican Belfast under the halo of the peace process. But it didn't. Regrettably, intimidation, beatings, shootings, assaults and to a lesser degree killings have been a feature of life in republican communities since the ceasefires of the 1990s. While not all of it can be laid at the door of the Provisional IRA, the notion that the organisation does nothing other than exist is the belief of the unwary and naive.

Since Friday evening, Bobby Tohill has confirmed and then denied Provisional IRA involvement in the attack on him. Sinn Fein have disputed claims that the IRA was involved. The IRA has issued a statement claiming that it authorised no operation against Tohill. The problem for the Provisionals is that their accounts are finding few takers. And in the media world Sinn Fein spokespeople are allowing themselves to be depicted as possessing all the credibility of Iraq's Comical Ali.

Four men have appeared in court charged in relation to the events at Kelly's Cellars. Public pronouncements that the IRA as an organisation is responsible for the attack on Tohill cannot be extended to a presumption of guilt on the part of the individuals arrested at the scene. Their case is now sub-judice and their right to a fair trial is paramount. The need to ensure that they are protected from the violence of the Northern Ireland Prison Service is equally as pressing. Punishment beatings are not unknown to Maghaberry Prison, where in 1996, 36-year-old Jim McDonnell died after being attacked by prison staff.

The assault on Bobby Tohill has left one man badly beaten and four others in prison. Who or what gains from the infliction of pain or the deprivation of liberty? Certainly nothing that is just. Are these communities any better off with one in hospital and four in jail? They are certainly no safer.