Irish Language in EU Protest at Daíl Éireann

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:11

Aontas Gael Óg = Union of Young Irish People
Níl aon mheas ag Bertie = Bertie has no respect
(The other poster has translated itself)

by Daoir Ó Daoir Sat Feb 21, 2004 13:37

I just can't stand to see this happening all over again. Another nail in the coffi for Irish. Thank you SF.

Anyone ever seen the SF website, they're selling POW bodhrans there, with depictions of an "IRA Firing Party".

I can't stand these Chuckies.

by jac Sat Feb 21, 2004 15:36

"hijacking the Irish language". explain please?

by Palmiro Togliatti - none today Sun Feb 22, 2004 03:07

Fairplay do lucht na Tríonóide, is leir gur ghlac siad páirt go díograiseach san agóid.

Maidir le Sinn Féin, bhí siad pairteach inti de reir mar a bheadh páirtí polaitiúil ar bith eile. Is ar éigin go raibh toirmeasc ar an Lucht Oibre nó Fine Gaeil nó na hOibrithe Sóisialacha páirt a ghlacadh san agóid agus a gcuid bratacha 7rl a chur a dtaispeáint. Mura raibh a leithéid uathu is ar éigin gur ar Sinn Féin atá an milleán.

by Daoir Ó Daoir Mon Feb 23, 2004 01:58

Ag déanamh sliotar polaitíochta as an teanga arís. Daoine ag breathnú ar an mórshiúl ar an teilifís, feicfidh siad bratach Shinn Féin agus déarfadh siad "arra, them Gaelgeoirs are all IRA supporters".

Má bhí grá ar bith agaibh don teanga fágfadh sibh bhur mbratacha sa bhaile.

by babog Mon Feb 23, 2004 02:09

Aontaim leatsa Daoir O Daoir... bhi cuma "RA" ar an t-agoid nuair a chonaic me e ar TG4. Mor an trua...

Bhi me ann ar an la agus bhi se dubh le mhic leinn... Bhi Colaiste na Trionoide is Colaiste Phadraig amach chomh maith le UCD.

by Jonah Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:39

I can read Irish, but I can't write it too well so apologies for this being in English and feel free to reply in Irish.

To a certain extent the Shinners are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't turn up for the protest they don't care about the Irish language and their support for it is only skin deep. If they do turn up, they're hijacking it.

Now I didn't see the TG4 broadcast but of all the photos up there only one has a Sinn Féin banner in it and the posters making the point that the rest were college students and Unions are right.

This week, Fine Gael, Labour and the Greens have a motion in Leinster House calling on the Government to make Irish an official language of the EU. They didn't ask Sinn Fein if they wanted to sign it (And SF had a motion in first on the matter) and is that not making a political sliotar out of the issue?

If a political party with five TDs, four MPs, 24 Assembly members, dozens of councillors and 12% of the vote according to the latest opinion polls can't show support, then there is a problem.

Now MAYBE, the march organisers asked people to keep party banners at home. That's a different story, but no-one has suggested that was the case here. I know SF people have gone along to demos where they didn't bring party material because the organisers asked them not to. If they weren't asked in this situation, how can you expect them to know not to bring them? Shinners are hardly going to be embarassed by their own party no matter how much you might hate it.

Again, apologies for writing in English, please continue to respond in Irish, great to see it, but I can work out the meaning when reading, would take too long when writing.

by bob Mon Feb 23, 2004 16:30 trumpman at hotmail dot com

Im from the states and I'm trying to learn Irish. If there is anyone who had time to corespond every now and then and answer some questions, I'd appreciate it.
Bob
[email protected]

by sfwatcher Mon Feb 23, 2004 19:40

SF yet again hijacking a campaign....

They are only there so they can get a few photos of Mary Lou for her Euro manifesto

by Duine Wed Mar 10, 2004 16:19

Ar éirigh leis an feachtas?

by Gobadán Thu Mar 11, 2004 03:37

Is cuma, ní léann éinne na cáipéisí sin in aon chor. Cuirfidh an feachtas, áfach, stádas na Gaeilge in Éirinn i meoin na ndaoine agus mar sin, is fiú bheith i mbun agóide.

by redjade Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:49

...a first wave of websites on the European Union in the languages of the new Member States today. At the end of the first informal meeting of the enlarged College, President Prodi stressed the right of each and every EU citizen to be informed about the major decisions of the Union in their own language. He said: "The EU needs the support of its citizens, and to have that, it must show respect for their cultural identities and their diversity. The ability for EU citizens to interact with the European Institutions in their language is a fundamental prerequisite of a democratic Europe".

by conor o muiri - colaiste cois life Sun Apr 25, 2004 00:23 imeldamurray35 at eircom dot net 32 glenpark road, palmerstown, dublin 20 087 29 40 118

you are all so wrong saying sinn fein hijacked the campaign i wonder if anyone
of you were at the protest-i was and i can only
remember seeing two banners. sinn fein are the only party making an effort to promote
th irish language. if fianna fail & pd's had there own way irish would be dead

by John Cassidy Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:47

I recently had the following letter published in The Bulletin (Brussels), in an attempt to thwart the self-serving agenda of you Irish language bigots who made my young life a misery. If you want to work for the EU, learn one or two of our European neighbour's languages. Simple. By the way, (I speak decent German (which wasn't compulsory at school) and no Irish (which was).



Recently, there has been a concerted effort by the Irish language lobby to have Gaelic made an official language of the EU. The lobby has been given extensive coverage, particularly in the letters pages of the quality press, and in advertisements placed in the same quarters.

The coming accession of new member states, whose languages will be given official EU status, is cited as a supporting argument for the inclusion of Gaelic. The "logic" being that if the new members states can have their languages afforded official status, why not Gaelic?

Incredibly – or maybe typically – although Gaelic is not spoken here day to day, it is the ‘First Official Language’ of the country. A consequence of the emerging Irish state’s need to define itself as a separate nation, during its quest for independence from Britain in the early part of the last century. Many would contend that this was aspirational, rather than grounded in reality.

Even at best - from the Irish Language lobby’s perspective - 353,000 people claimed to use Gaelic every day, according to 1986 census figures. Even these can be questioned, as they are subjective and give no guide or guarantee to the honesty or proficiency of the person filling out the form. Does a "cupla focal", in a country where Gaelic is a compulsory school subject, really count for a through knowledge or love of a language?


I am Irish, born and bred, but do not speak a word of Gaelic. Nor do any of my friends. Maybe I am a bit thick, and so are my friends, but a frightened childhood at the mercy of zealous Irish teachers, attempting to beat a love of ‘the language’ into me, did not succeed in its aim. Tellingly, my German is passably good… but that was something I chose to do.


The reality is that English is the language used here for daily, business, legal and political affairs. A salient fact recognised by the companies that have invested heavily here in recent years. To compare our use of Gaelic with those languages of the accession countries is disingenuous.

I invite anyone who disputes this, to walk around Dublin and count how many words of Irish they hear spoken on their travels. Alternatively, let them walk into a shop in and attempt to transact business in anything other than English. Try it anywhere in Ireland – other than the Gaeltacht Region, a tiny State-funded area where Gaelic is officially encouraged. The reply will be along the lines of "Wha?"

So why the campaign? Those behind it blatantly state that if Irish were included as an official language of the EU, it would enhance EU job opportunities for its speakers. Commendable, in one respect at least - they are honest about the selfishness of their motives.

To me, however, it all seems a trifle indulgent. It would necessitate every document and communication produced by the Commission being translated into Gaelic – and every other EU language – then translated back into English, for the benefit of people who are day-to-day anglophones in the first place!

If I understand it correctly, were the EU to accede to this nonsense, it also would mean that an Irish person (who did learn Irish at school – or the Gaeltacht!) Could take a Commission examination in Gaelic and use English for the ‘foreign’ language section of the test - and it would count the same as taking it in French, German, Italian, Spanish or Portuguese.

Surely an EU functionary with English and German would be more useful in such a working environment than one with English and Gaelic. Or am I missing something?

If I am, and this campaign is not just a self-serving ploy by some people who should know better - perhaps we should also campaign for the inclusion of Luxembourgish, Welsh, Scots-Gaelic, Ullans, Sami, Romany, Frisian, Cornish, Breton, Catalan and Basque?

That way the whole EU project would collapse, Babelesque, under the divisive weight of needless translation bureaucracy. Is that really what these people want? Hardly, because then the issue of using the Commission to further selfish motives would no longer exist. Maybe they haven’t thought it through properly?

In the interests of the great European Project, let us concentrate on our commonality, instead of creating differences where there are none.

John Cassidy

by SF ALL THE WAY Mon Apr 26, 2004 13:34

Its about time the people in this country stand together ! We are fighting to keep our language & culture ! & while the Irish people continue to bicker among themselves the government is stripping us of our rites, as the English have done so before!

Get it Together People!

Erin Go Brach : )

by dunk Mon Apr 26, 2004 14:27

can someone give a brief report on the protest.
how many were there
what time did it start and finsih etc...

ta teanga an priomh rud den gcultur.
an bhfuilll ar teanga biognach mairbh?

ta suil agam go nios mo daoine ag caint agus ag fholaim ar thaenga

chuir me email ar an duine a rinne an online petition, ta se as finland, ana ana ait??

ach sin é

by Dermot L - AML COBÁC Mon Apr 26, 2004 16:02

Who's the bigot? Duine atá ag troid chun an Gaeilge a úsáid i gcómhthéacs oifigiúil - or a person who, because they don not speak the language themselves, brushes tar over us all. Tuigim na pointí faoin costas ar Ghaeilge mar teanga oifigiúil an AE - but "no-one speaks it" isn't one of them.

by Laura Mon Apr 26, 2004 16:43

Ta me isteach an oifig ..ta se nios tapuila chaun bearla a scriobh. Its not my fault that this british tongue comes quicker to me than my own native language..Thats what they stole from our people ,& thats why our children will be screwed ..if i hav little gaelige can you imagine how little our kids will hav

Ta me abalta gaelige a abair ach ag scriobh nil se go mhaith

ar teanga go deo

GET UP STAND UP

Stand up for your Rites!!

Bob Marley...GOD BLESS

SAOIRSE GO DEO x

by Méabh Ní Loingsigh Mon Apr 26, 2004 17:57

Táim á scríobh seo as Béarla ar son an 'bigot' thuas a chur a chuid tuairimí chugainn.

Saturday 24 April is a day those in the Irish language movement will remember. Up to 4000 people marched from the Garden of Remembrance to Dáil Éireann to demand official status in the EU for the Irish language.

Finally the Irish speakers in our country are demanding their right to use the first official language of our country in their official dealings with our own state and with the EU. We have now got our Language Act and our Language Commissioner. Next is official status in the EU.

Finally Irish speakers (Gaeltacht people and those outside the Gaeltacht) have stopped apologizing for their own existence and finally people who are not Irish speakers are realizing that they have a point.

As a Dub who was brought up with Irish, I know - back in the seventies people would stare at you because you happened to be speaking Irish in the street. They would call you names as well or worse, you might get beaten up for it. Now in the more enlightened 21st century people are actually quite impressed and even a little envious of those of us who have the insight the Irish language brings to us - an insight into the hundreds of years of knowledge of our ancestors.

Stádas, stádas, anois, anois, anois!

by An Fhuiseog Mon Apr 26, 2004 23:09

Ni aontaím leis go h-iomlan ach tagaim dreas den bóthar leis. Ni fiú traithnín stadas Eorpach don Ghaeilge. Níl uathu ata i mbun agóide ach postanna bréige agus deontaisí. Ní féidir athbheochan na teangan a bhaint amach as an mBruiséil.

T sé suimiúil gur thagair an Bight (John Cassidy) don taithí scoile a bhí aige in a óige. Baigh dead, nár chríochnaigh rialtas na hÉireann obair teangamharaithe na Sasanaigh?

Níl aon dul as ach riachtanais an Ghaeilge mar ábhar scoile a chríochnú agus an Ghaeilge ar chur ar fáil do na paistí amhain a bhfuil suil acu inti, agus tá go leor ann. Mar atá, ni féidir teanga ar bith a mhúineadh do dhuine ar a neamhthoil, ni dhéantar tada ach dearghráin a thabhairt dó.

by gael Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:49

Bhi mé fhéin ag an agóid ar an satharn agus as an 4,000 nó mar sin a bhi ann, an chuid is mó acu, bhi siad óg, dáltai scoile agus mic léinn ...... nach deireann sin rud éigin faoi todhchai na Gaeilge?

Caithimid nios mó brú a chuir ar an rialtas faoin ábhar seo.

by UCD Student Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:11

I agree that any language that is a functioning language should be used at appropriate levels in Government. There are very good arguments to have Irish as a language in the EU.

However I strongly disagree with the Irish language being "better" or "more Irish" than the English language or any other language. I am born in Ireland, have lived in Ireland all my life. I feel no "guilt" whatsoever speaking English. I'm in an English speaking language area, it's my mother tongue. That doesn't make me less "Irish".

Language should be all about communication. The State (incl. the EU) should make provisions for minority languages. Not because Irish is "more Irish" than English, but because there are people in Ireland that use the Irish language as their daily language. Similarly the State should provide for Chinese speakers, Arabic speakers etc.

PS
Interesting to see the TCDSU going to that protest. They've not had a good record on going to other relevant protests throughout the year. Maybe they see it easier to go to this protest than an anti-fees protest against Bertie Ahern in Trinity, or anti-war protests etc. At times i'm amazed at the Irish language tokenism of the Student Movement.

by Niamh Cinn Ór - UCD Tue Apr 27, 2004 18:26 meala_milis at hotmail dot com

I have to disagree with you on your point that the state should provide for chinese, arabic, etc, speakers just as much as irish language speakers.
Irish (not chinese) is the national language of this country and that should be the state's main priority. As with our music and literature, it is an extremely important part of our national identity and not merely "about communication". As the European Union expands, I think there is an even greater need for us to voice concerns about our countries identity and what makes us different from our EU neighbours. In such a large mixture of cultures, it may be easy for our Identity to disappear. The Irish language not being recognised as an official language of the Union is the first big leap in this happening and in the dispersion of our unique Irish culture into a more European culture.

Mar a dúirt Méabh Ni Loingsigh :
STáDAS, STáDAS,STáDAS
......ANOIS, ANOIS, ANOIS

by Fergal Tue Apr 27, 2004 18:38

I'm constantly struck by how ill-informed people are on this issue. The EU has officially recognised languages, and working languages. The working languages are one which all documents must be printed in, and for which translators must be provided in parliament. Recognised laguages are used for some, but not all EU documents. Irish falls into this category, along with Welsh, Breton, and other minority languages. (Realistically, Welsh has a far better claim to official status than Irish, due its prevalanace as a first language. )

When we joined the (then) EEC it was decided that we would not pursue having Irish as an official workintg language. I suppose the logic was that's it's hardly even a working language in the Dail, so why impose the cost and difficulty on European institutions, when our representatives can all understand English (usually far better than Irish).

In other words, the decision was made 30 years ago, and for practical reasons. As it happens, I have no objection to giving Irish official status, but we should recognise that it's only a gesture, which will cost lartge amounts of money that could be spent on supporting the language at home, rather than in Brussels.

by amandine Mon May 10, 2004 17:57 amandinevaillant at hotmail dot com

I am currently working on the recognition of Irish as an official working language. What do you know exactly about the difficulties and costs it implies. You can email me, thanking you in advance

by Colm Ó Dúill Tue May 11, 2004 20:23

The EU has 20 official languages. These are languages that will be translated in the Parliament. Irish is the only so called ''treaty'' language. Treaties are translated into it and you personally can correspond with EU institutions in it. You will find it on European passports, for example. It won't be translated in the Parliament. The only reason that term exists is because our government did not look for official status. As it is everything is not translated into all languages. The main three are English (world business language), French (legal/ diplomatic), and German (largest mother tongue population). The other 17 are lesser used official and Basque, Breton, Catalan; Welsh etc. barely feature, though provision is being made for them. Makes sense as Catalan has over 10 million speakers (and isn't official), and Maltese has only just over 300,000 (and is).

The cost of adding Irish is extremely minimal, and we are paying for the language fund anyway.

It will only add to our country's rights not take away any from those that don't speak the language. Anyway, why not? If your children learn it in school for 14 years, not only will they be better off culturally but they will also be better placed to get jobs in the EU. They might never need to speak it but they still get the job.

It can only work to our advantage.

by Colm Ó Dúill Tue May 11, 2004 20:48

Just to add: Over half of the EU budget goes towards Agriculture, only 0.8% goes towards education. Puts things in perspective.

by John Cassidy Mon May 31, 2004 17:29

"As a Dub who was brought up with Irish"... are you saying that Irish is your mother tongue? As a Dubliner whose parents, grandparents and great-grandparents were working class "Dubs" I would say that's very unusual.

My memories of being beaten up with regard to "Irish" is by thick ignorant "Irish" teachers, who would not be in teaching at all, were it not for their knowledge of "Irish".

Another thing: I don't subscribe to the homogenous, Gaelic-speaking, Catholic, crossroads dancing version of Irishness. We are a mix of all sorts of peoples: Celts, Norse, English, Scottish, Hugenot, Jewish in the past; and a lot more now and in the future.

Anyway, the whole point of Official EU languages is to facilitate communication between EU States. It is not about utilising the EU as a vehicle to further the interests of the "Irish" language lobby and to give them an advantage when it comes to getting jobs in the EU. The language requirement regarding EU jobs is so people can communicate in the tongue of other EU states.

If there is some Paidi out there on a little island in the Atlantic, who genuinely speaks only Irish, it is doubtful that he will want to read about road-building and pipe-laying tenders in the Official EU Journal anyway.

Lastly, I propose a referendum to remove Gaelic as "our first official language", as this status is self-evidently a nonsense! Maybe then the thousands of Irish people who've been discriminated against in employment and education because they don't have Gaelic could have their say. It's a sacred cow that needs to be slaughtered.

by Póg mo thóin Fri Jun 03, 2005 04:47

Good luck to you on your referendum and sacred cow that needs to be slaughetered.

I'm sure you will find a lot of people to go along with you.

Yes you are a muppet. A lot of people do speak Irish, and not just on islands on the west coast.

Have you ever met any working class people who speak fluent Irish? I know some girls that would put you in your place.

by Barry Fri Jun 03, 2005 23:37

Did the apocryphal thick ignorant teachers never beat people in French/ German / Maths classes as well ?
I never got the opportunity to learn Irish in my state run 90 % protestant school so I dont know . The Irish language was considered subversive provospeak there . Ive tried learning a load of times and even worked a stint in an Irish language organisation for a year but lack of use ( and effort on my part) means I keep letting what knowledge I did get go to waste .

My brothers a fluent speaker but he only became fluent after going to jail . A bit of an extreme way to learn but successful nontheless . Maybe when he gets out he'll teach me again .

Irish speaking communities arent all on the west coast or Donegal . Theres a successful gaeltacht in the Shaws rd in Belfast which has been going for years now . Along with Irish speaking schools , nurseries social clubs restaurants , theatre etc . Its always struck me that the lack of employment for Irish speakers is the main handicap to its growth and development as an everyday language . If more EU recognition can help then its worth persuing .

By the way there is virtually no Celtic blood amongst the Irish population . The Celts never settled in Ireland ,ever . The Celtic blood theory is a myth promoted by the likes of Lady Gregory and WB Yeats , l since disproved by DNA analysis . DNA wise Irish people are no more Celtic than they are eskimoes . Culturally we are most definitely celtic but not racially , ever , at any time in our history .

by Barry Sat Jun 04, 2005 00:17

That bit a about DNA analysis looks like it said " I since disproved" . the i is actually an L . Im not a DNA researher and cant claim responsibility .

by Young Buckereu Sat Jun 11, 2005 05:51

"Its always struck me that the lack of employment for Irish speakers is the main handicap to its growth and development as an everyday language . If more EU recognition can help then its worth persuing ."

It should be recognised as an EU language within the next few weeks- although it won't come into force until Jan 2007.

The next step after STÁDAS is to get more residential developments named in Irish only, to counterbalacne the multiude of developments that are in English only.

by Darragh Sat Jun 11, 2005 16:37

Road signs really piss me off. Yes, they are bilingual, but the Irish is in lower-case italics, while the English is in upper-case capital letters. Therefore it makes the Irish version more difficult to read, especially from a distance or while travelling in a vehicle. Perhaps if the Irish version was "upgraded" from italics to normal letters, that might be welcomed by some.

by Barry Sun Jun 12, 2005 08:57

that in some parts of the gaeltacht the english versions have been removed totally ?

by Darragh Sun Jun 12, 2005 18:08

That is true.

by Einstein Tue Jun 14, 2005 04:50

"Perhaps if the Irish version was "upgraded" from italics to normal letters, that might be welcomed by some."

This is going to happen under the Offical Languages Act. In all future signage both languages will be the same size and font.

In the meantime any signs in which the Irish is mispelt will be taken down and replaced with 50/50 signs.

Also any signs, such as in many hospitals, that are in English only will be replaced by 50/50 signs or the same sign as Gaeilge will be put near it.

This part of the act has not come in yet but is expected to come in sometime this year.

by Fearghal Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:57

During yesterday afternoon we got 7 press releases from politicians welcoming the EU decision on making Irish an official language. Six were 100% as bearla. Only the SDLP one managed to rise to a paragraph as gaelige.
This decision will no more help to promote the Irish language than Peig Sayers or those eejits who insist on addressing cross-community events as gaelige, in the full knowledge that the unionist community present will feel totally excluded.

by Sinn Féin Tue Jun 14, 2005 14:01

Fáilte roimh stádas AE don Ghaeilge
13 June, 2005
http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/9980

Chuir Ceannaire Dála Shinn Féin Caoimhghín O Caoláin fáilte roimh cinneadh an Aontais Eorpaigh chun stadas oifigiúl oibre a thabhairt don Ghaeilge. Dúirt an Teachta O Caoláin:

"Céim tábhactach chun tosaigh don Ghaeilge atá anseo. Cuirim comhghairdeas leis na daoine uile a ghlac páirt sa bhfeachtas fada do Stadas na Gaeilge. Bhí áthas orm cabhrú leis an bhfeachtas sin sa Dáil le roinnt bliana anuas. Léiríonn an cinneadh seo cé chomh tábhacthach is atá feachtais a chur ar bun chun brú a chur ar na húdaráis anseo in Eirinn agus san AE. Ba chóir cuimhniú nach raibh an Rialtas anseo toilteanach an moladh seo a chur ar aghaidh go dtí go raibh sé mar ceist mór sna toghcháin Eorpacha anuraidh curtha chun cinn ag Sinn Féin, i measc páirtithe agus dreamanna eile.

"Tá pobal na Gaeilge ag déanamh obair sár-mhaith chun an teanga a chur chun cinn anseo in Eirinn. Ach tá easpa deiseanna oibre do dhaoine ar mhaith leo oibriú trí mheán na Gaeilge. Tá súil agam go dtabharfaidh an cinneadh seo deiseanna oibre do Ghaeilgeoirí óga. Leis an teicneolaíocht nua is féidir alán de na postanna sin a lonnú sa Ghaeltacht agus in áiteanna eile timpeall na tíre." Críoch

by Duine Fri Jun 24, 2005 18:11

Tá gach duine ag moladh lucht iarrtha an stádais seo, ach ní chluinim éinne a rá cén difir a bhéas ann de bharr amach anseo ina saol féin