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cork |
rights, freedoms and repression |
news report
Tuesday January 20, 2004 10:15
by Cork Anti-War Campaign
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Comments (12 of 12)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12Well I must congrat the lot of you on proving that to you people the term 'Freedom of Speech' is oly applicable to groups you ally yourselves with.
I understand why you do not like the BNP, I don't particularly like em myself. I know they are racists and idiots, but at the same time I also know that unless they had come out and said something intentionally Inciting, then they were breaking NO laws and so should have been allowed to speak. When the Anti-War movement are prevented from giving a specch somewhere, they scream blue bloody murder, claiming infringement on Civil Liberties, and yet when a group which they do not believe in are pencilled in to give a debate they disagree with, they cause the event to be cancelled. Too me that just does not make any sense.
Alot of you claimed that they were gonna try to recruit people and I would just like to say it again, if they HAD managed to recruit anybody to their basis of thought or beliefs, then there is NOTHING you can do about it. This party exists, that you cannot deny, they can be found on the web. So the people who believe as they do [which does not include myself] can easily find them elsewhere, you have certainly not stopped people from following what they want, no matter how racist and idiotic it is.
Ill tell you what, I disagree with Noam Chomsky, I don't think he has any really useful answers, plenty of questions, not enough workable answers, so the next time he is planning on giving a speech in Tallaght or Trinity, Ill protests and see if I can't get it postponed or cancelled. Its only fair that if people do not agree with his politics, then he should not be allowed to speak either!
And I stand firmly behind the fact that you guys could have made a much better statement against the BNP if you had allowed it to go ahead and actually enagaged the man in a debate there and then. Nothing proves how stupid someones beliefs can be than to have him openly state them in public.
I was looking soo forward to it, I had planned to turn up in my Reebok basketball runners, Lacrosse sweater, and Burburry cap! Now you have ruined my big day out...
Seriously, though, I agree with Dribionache on this one, even though I think the BNP are a bunch of tattooted skangers who support Rangers FC, and even though I am the first on any thread to scream like a girl about the antics of Sunday Indo writers.
Free speech, even for skangers and serious socialists.
... spell error ; Drbinoche... he is the guy I agree with.
Drbinoche - On most of your points I agree to an extent, however the thing at the end about Chomsky is far-fetched. We were not aiming to prevent the BNP visit because we disagreed with their politics - we were against it because of the history of street violence asscoiated with the BNP.
Re 'Free Speech'- I personally do not believe in absolute free speech. Most people dont if you think about it. Libel, slander and encitement to hatred laws are just some necessary limitations. Another extreme eg could be the X-case. Should the girl at the centre of that case have been named in the interest of free speech?
However in the context of the BNP you are quite right to point out that this individual was not speaking illegally. In this case it was a personal decision to prevent what is undenyably a hate group from organising in Cork. Its a form of self- defence.
It works both ways.
If you don't allow these people to debate their issues then they will be able to recruit underground more easily. The point of view of the BNP is so obviously wrong that it should have been easy for any competent speaker to blow him out of the water. We dont have to support them, we should oppose them, but by opposing their arguements not their right to say them.
Colm above has just summed it all up with his above comment.I believe in free speech but.......?
Free speach is free speach.Simple as that.
The lame excuse being violence used by the BNP.What about Sinn Fein?What about the Palestinians?What about any other number of protests that have turned violent.WTO in Seattle and the like.I can imagine the uproar from people on this site if such protests were banned on the grounds of violence.
This "Independent"media site is as guilty of censoring news and comments as any of the corporate media.To call it Independent is a joke when a group of editors frequently delete comments and articles that do not agree with their views.It is not independent as independent means everyone has the right to contribute and be listened to be it left or right or whatever.How can a discussion be had if only one side is permitted to be heard?
I think the site should be renamed.
Leftwingmedia.ie
Antiamericaandisraelbutantinothingelse.ie
same20socialists.ie
I think these would more describe the site than Independent.
I presume this comment will be knocked off by the "editors".
By the way I am no BNP supporter,just a supporter of free speach.
That's nonsense, TPT. I've seen some of the abusive comments before they were deleted, and it was right to delete them. I suggest if you want to have a say about what is or is not deleted then you join the editorial list. If you want to see what is deleted, and why, then join the newswire list. They don't delete stuff just because they disagree with it. They seem to me to be fair and impartial.
It might be a good idea to educate yourself about the publishing guidelines.
Abusive comments seem to be quite acceptable on this newswire,it just depends on who is getting abuse.Israeli's,americans are fair game.SP SWP WSM BNP SF etc.all fair game if you belong to one party or the other.And before you start droning on about "it is not the Israeli people we are against, just the policies of Sharon blah blah" you should consider the fact that the Palestinians target Israeli citizens,so when someone comes on and justifies suicide bombings,they are justifying the killing of Israeli people.
So, abusive or racist comments not allowed?
Don't make me laugh.
Just make sure and don't abuse the left.
TPT - Nowhere did I say that I believe in Absolute Free Speech. Your point re protests though is weak because violence often originates from the police. Your comments may only apply to the blackbock.
Re Sinn Fein, Im sure some comparisons can be made in terms of 'punishment beatings'. However in the North the policing situation is totally different. It is almost exclusively protestant. Many natioanlists do not feel they represent them. In contrast to that the BNP would probably be quite at home in the English police.
Re indymedia- name 1 rightwing site which offers as much 'free speech' to its opponents as indymedia does.
Looks like ze big brave aryan stormtrooper narzis KKK leather joy boyz have chickened out again.
The decision for narzis to retreat has got nothing to do with them being chicken shit mammys boys wimps who are shit scared of the IRA.
Narzi wimp chicken shit fear has got nothing to do with them shying away at every opportunity from fair face to face fist fights with equal numbers of ablebodied anti narzi fash bashers.
If nothing else the BNP have been a consistently anti irish party as was the national front. Why on earth would you think people wouldn't be a little annoyed at them coming!
In the end though the very aim of all far right groups is freely addmitted to being against the very free speech you are defending. And make no mistake everywhere that neo nazis get set up violence follows. Where I live it's quite regular. Whether attacks on minorities or leftists or "weird" people with long hair or piercings. Also once they get set up the can set the debate. Anyway Ireland is one of the few countries in >Europe without any serious organised fascist movement and fair play to those trying to keep it that way.