Protest outside Coke offices to mark international human rights day

by pat c Wed Dec 10, 2003 19:36

Keep the Starry Plough Flying.

by Interested Wed Dec 10, 2003 19:51

What did the SY do in TCD to combat coke? Funny they didnt get into any trouble.

by Cian Wed Dec 10, 2003 20:04

I think SY in Trinity have been busy this term with keeping the BNP speaker out of college. I'm sure the individual members as well have been well busy with the Bin Charges campaign. Not every left wing activist can take up every campaign at the same time and still be effective! In fact it works best if different activists and groups run with different campaigns at the same time.

by Interested Wed Dec 10, 2003 20:06

All sounds very interesting indeed. However, I think you're pushing it a little too far and presuming way too much with your last sentance Cian. Realistically, how the hell do you know who the company hired to do what and what meeting was going on inside their building today. Did you or anyone else sepak to this person or is this all just an elaborate presumption?

by TCD Student Thu Dec 11, 2003 01:12

" In Trinity the Labour society was threatened with suspension and derecognition because of the action Labour members had taken in defence of trade union rights in Colombia."

They were threatened by the Central Societies Committee as a result of the belief by college authorities that posters and leaflets they had issues were slanderous, untrue and left open the possibility of the college facing litigtaion. At a time when TCD is facing a huge cash crisis, it was felt that any legal proceddings initaited by Coke would cost the college far too much money even if only at a very early stage.

(see the current edition of Trinity News)

Labour since then have lost their appetite for the struggle accepting the ban w/o question and going back to being the non-active group of polticos they really are.

SY did even less, rory, sorry they, were talking a few weeks ago about getting the 350 names to force a referendum on the issue but that seems to have gone back to bed. Probably the excitment at being at the centre of attention over the BNP went to their heads and they thought they matters.

will labour youth be taking a position on the issue of trade union suppression by the state in Cuba anytime soon?

by Cian Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:46

If you see the current edition of Trintiy News the senior dean admits that he took action after been approached by a PR company acting on behalf of Coca Cola. The leaflet is not slanderous and simply states a number of facts generally uncontested by Coke and facts taken from the legal case pending in the U.S.

Trinity Labour was also told that the leaflets been used were in breach of trademark law. This is completely untrue. The trade mark law clearly states that it is unlawful to use the logo of a brand like Coca Cola to trade in similar products. The Labour Youth material firstly did not use Coke's logo, and secondly was not seeking to sell a similar prodcut (ie a soft drink). So on two counts we were completely clear of breaching trademark law.

Far from taking this issue lieing down, Trinity Labour, despite been threatened with suspension are fighting the ruling of the CSC and hope to have the matter resolved shortly.

How do I know that this man walking out of the Coca Cola building was their PR agent hired specifically to work on counteracting the boycott campaign?

Because when Coke met with Labour Youth with their head of Communications from Latin America in a failed attempt to disuade us from our campaign, Coca Cola introduced this man as an external PR consultant hired for the purpose of dealing with the boycott campaign. Now if he's in the Coke Offices and he's hired for one purpose alone, its doesn't take an inspector Cluesoe to figure out why he is there.

by cabhog Thu Dec 11, 2003 14:20

Cian, will TCD's labour youth be taking a position on the issue of trade union suppression by the state in Cuba anytime soon?

Have Labour Youth placed pressure on businesses owned by Labour members to ban the sale of coca-cola in their own shops?

will labour youth refurse to hold any social events in venues where the owners sell Coca-Cola?

by Cian - LY Thu Dec 11, 2003 14:44

Photos of the LY protest outside the offices on Coca Cola at 38-39 Lower Baggot Street. The protest took place on Wednesday December 10th to mark International Human Rights Day.

Protest get underway

Leaflets are handed out to passers by

Coke can't hide its crimes in Colombia

Gardaí arrive after been called by Coca Cola

Gardaí take names and addresses even the only crime been committed is against trade unionists in Colombia

by cabhog Thu Dec 11, 2003 15:09

these pictures are already up as a seperate story, bit unnessecary

by SA and LP Thu Dec 11, 2003 15:18

Socialist Alternative- formerly the SWSS in UCD have dissolved. They no longer hold seperate meetings, and their society noticeboard in the Arts Block is being used by the SWP. The chair of Socialist Alternative (Donal O'Liathain) joined the Labour Party in the Summer. He ran this by the SA at the time, and they had no problem with him joining Labour. Other SA members are very close to and are in Labour. Clearly this was a RIGHT WING SPLIT from the SWP.

O'Liathain claims that he does not support the policies of partnership , coalition etc. and he says he is "reclaiming" the Labour Party. The likes of Paul Dillon and Cian O'Callaghan does support Nice Treaty, Partnership, coalition government etc.

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Thu Dec 11, 2003 15:19

No, they're not. The pictures were moved to this story so that the article and photos would be available on the same page.

Daithí

by Joe Thu Dec 11, 2003 15:29

H'mm I see some SWP twit is still promoting this right wing split idea.

In fact SA soon after the split seem to have decided that they were not going to form yet another competing sect for the leadership of the Irish working class. In part this probably reflected the range of post-SWP views that emerged once people were able to freely discuss stuff.

Some may have moved to the right (although in practice it is not all that clear that LY is to the right of the SWP on issues like Shannon). Others clearly moved to the left and are now anarchists.

The SWP rather obviously has a need to tell its members that this was a right ward split because the SWP is unable to deal with the truth which is the SA crowd took the fake SWP movementism seriously and when faced with the choice of 'party or movement' choose the movement. This has happened in quite a range of countries at the moment but only with the US split (the second Left Turn one) did the SWP leadership in Britain come close to admitting what had actually happened.

by shocked Thu Dec 11, 2003 15:55

I find it unbelieveable that someone would say that the Labour Party have a better position on shannon than the SWP! Labour called a DIFFERENT demo IN DUBLIN on March 1st. The SWP were protesting in shannon! Labour, Greens and Sinn Féin are the people you should have attacked on March 1st. Last Saturday Labour did not show up. There was no Labour banner, no Labour leaflets, NO Labour presence whatsoever! The SWP were there, the SP were there, the IAWM where there, GNAW were there, Local anti war groups were there.

I find it unbelieveable that any anarchist could have sympathies with the Labour Party. The Labour Party beleve that parliament is where things are changed! They believe in 'elect me I'll sort it for ya' politics. They support social partnership, their members oppose strikes, they support Nice Treaty and a capitalist European Union.

by Joe Thu Dec 11, 2003 16:31

Try actually reading what I wrote rather then wrestling with the ghosts in your mind.

LY stands for Labor Youth rather then Labor Party. Of course like all party youth fronts they are liable to be disbanded if they stray too far from the leadeship but unlike say 'Socialist Youth' they do more then parrot the leadership line.

So on March 1st when the grown up Labour party were telling people to not to go at all and when the Socialist Party, Socialist Youth and the SWP were telling people to 'stay with the mass movement' members of Labour Youth could be found lined up with GNAW facing the cops at the fence.

On a one to one level I've told them that I don't get the attachment to the Labour party and I reckon one day they will be given the option of toing the line or leaving. But in the meantime I don't see much point in pretending that on Shannon they were to the right of the SWP or SP/SY.

I guess the real difference here is that for years you trots have either been telling people to join the Labour party or to vote for them. We anarchists have not so we don't feel the same need to 'expose' illusions that we never sewed in the first place.

Like the SWP or the SP the politics of the LP are crap, just another variation on the 'trust us and we'll run your life for you in a better way'. But on the ground you often have to work with people whose politics are crap. In that situation judging them on what they do as well as what they say tends to be the smart move (which is why I'm happier working with the SP then the SWP despite the fact that on paper they are further from us).

by i'm one of those too Fri Dec 12, 2003 15:40

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cokelore.asp
this one could be updated:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp

by UCD student Fri Dec 12, 2003 16:51

Plenty has been done in UCD by socialist alternative whether they act as unit or individuals supporting eacg other.
such as
1 being instrumental in the getting coke off campus
2 getting a progreesive union in place which has carried out several direct actions this year
3participating in grassroote actions
4 Helping to set alliance for choice in UCD

Now whether you say they are left or right it doen't matter cos do ya no what - they are doing more than any of you wasters who just bitch on indymedia all day criticising anyone who does anything.

by reasoned poster Fri Dec 12, 2003 18:08

It's quite clear that SA are moving to the right. It seems that half their membership has joined Labour. But who fucking cares! all it amounts to is about 4 or 5 blokes in college together.

On Shannon, Labour and LY had a position to the right of the SWP and the SP. That is quite obvious. Labour did boycott Shannon in March and again last Saturday. Why are people trying to pretend Labour are to the left of the SWp or SP, it just makes you look stupid.

by Rational Poster Fri Dec 12, 2003 18:15

LY or LP are not to the right of the SWP.
SWP are as happy working with the LP and the trade union bureaucrats as any reformist.
Their turns are akin to watching a tennis match.

by Dave Fri Dec 12, 2003 18:30

Labour Youth's official position is to suport non-violent direct action at Shannon as well as other means of fighting against the use of Shannon as a U.S. warport such as the boycott of TOP Oil. That's why Labour Youth members took part in non-violent direct action, one member was arrested, members helped to establish the peace camp, and Labour Youth organised pickets of TOP Oil stations.

The SWP and SP instead concentrated on "mass mobilisations" which were fully supported by the Labour Party as well.

I think more and more people are coming around to the view anyway that the key difference is not between different parties etc. but between people who do shit and people who just sit back and criticise. Winning these struggles takes action and that's what counts.

by Curious Fri Dec 12, 2003 19:25

Has Socialist Alternative dissolved or not?

Are they going to put out a final statement on the experience of their organisation and where the members are going from here?

Or did the whole thing just run out of steam and gradually fall apart?

by Mr Disco (not giving real name for reasoned reasons) - SA Sat Dec 13, 2003 20:58

1st on coke, If Ly had it in them, theyd be in knockmitten blocking lorries into and out of the coke plant, not shitting about outside the corporate hq. Fair play, and I CAN see the point of such an action. maybe the trots should look to LY for a bit of inspiration wrt doing stuff.

//
I know cian and co would be prepared to sit on the ground near the red cow, but i doubt they would have widespread support from the wider sections of the party
//

It is quite apparant from that picture that my main man donal is either in labour or supports a labour action. I genuinely dont know cause i never really discuss party politics with him unless it ivlolves pointing and laughing.I think we both consider alligning yourself to a national party to be of no relavance!

//
how many shopping days till marxmas? I dont know I dont know. but do we know
//

Donal set up (by himself) got money, and eventually union backing (last year under AH) for the ucd anti deportation campaign. All pretty much 100% by himself, which is a campaign that has had a racist university paper editor sacked, held vigils attracting a bigger crowd than "marxism" on rainy nights in racist belfield, along with getting vocal protests against harney. mc dowell etc. stick that in your ivory tower and smoke it.

//
fuckit, ive held swp and sp banners at protests, but it doesnt make me a member. I even got a spart banner off phil, and its the only banner i think ive ever held onto.
//

SA have'nt split. check the zine. or see us all at different protests. See james jumpin in shannon, finbarr/dan and coke, go to critical mass on any given nonwinter friday and we have 6 bikes there (thats 6 more than car toting trots), who supporded the gg last march? who was involved in lan, which group as was pointed out got a progressive union elected, who set up the adc and has their photo at a protest on this very webpage? who hung around on day x when others were busy building a mass movement/ hijacking/jacking off.

There has not been 1 sp/swp cover farce group that ive wished i was in ever. all the groups that sa have been involved in (withOUT bushing a line or doing a line) are groups which have either done something practical, or involved people actually, or got something DONE. yes, thats changed something.

//
we have got more stuff done in UCD since we left the SWP than we would have done in 10 years with kieron richard or rory bossing us around (all respects).
//

Donal is free to go along to whatever protests he wants - fucked if im going to tell him what to do (that is the "vanguard of the vanguards" way). I know lots of dead on lefter than youd think ly heads, personally id not join the party (see bin tax), and plenty of decent anarchists (some sa heads would associate with) and lots and lots of personally sound (but politically wrong in my opinion) SWP/Sp heads.

//

I hate (thats with a h) working with the latter. on a personal level i like some swp/sp heads, but "politically" if you will - "working" with trots is very very difficult for non trots (we arent religiously enlightened enough). Working with anarchist lads is really great. working with independant socialists is great too, and even working with the occasional non thin party line following sp/swp person can be alright.

basically SA work with everyone.

this poster had it well off
::

who fucking cares! all it amounts to is about 4 or 5 blokes in college together.

::

Unlike the swp / sp of course, which amounts to entire swathes of the prolateriat

im just sick of replying to this bitter bullshit, and dont know if i will again (theres some much better forums on the net)




p.s please forgive the typos. im 28 hours without sleep.

by Rational Adult Sun Dec 14, 2003 18:50

You might not be aware of it, but shock horror! The SP also works with Labour! The way the SY children carry on here , you'd never know it.

The SP work with the Labour Party in the Alliance For Choice; IAWM; CFE; LASC and in many other campaigning and solidarity groups. But the juvenile bile emitted by SY on this site does not help relations. Building a Cult appears to be more important to the SY and SP mainmen like Steven Boyd.