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news report
 Sunday April 20, 2003 14:51 by F. Leddy fearghalleddy at yahoo dot com 01-8560233
 Where have all the flowers gone? On friday 18 april at 1.30am, an incident happened on Dame st. Dublin city centre which put in perspective much of the recent debate over street safety and the poor availability of garda manpower to combat violent crime. SAFE STREETS-IMMIGRANTS DEFLOWERED The next few minutes where spent trying to convince the acting chief of Pearse street garda station that, as a citizen of the state and resident of Dublin I was entitled to be concerned about how my city was being policed and wasn't it in fact my civic duty to report a robbery if i had seen one. - Garda representatives are on public record in the last week explaining their shortcomings in dealing with violent street-crime as the result of cutbacks in their various departments. Why then, when it comes to soft crime ( ie. the efforts of members of immigrant communities to subsidise their meagre means by providing a service) there seems to be no shortage of man-power? -Secondly, was there actually a crime committed and, if so, who committed it? Surely, if it was the immigrant pair, there should have been some efforts to record their details at the very least. - If it was in fact a robbery conducted by a uniformed officer, how does the judicial establishment recommend that we safeguard ourselves against criminal elements in the gardai? - And could there be a deeper, more sinister issue to be addressed? Could there, in fact, be a culture of racial and social prejudice endemic in the force???? Would be interested in hearing a legal perspective on the aforementioned incident. Can the cops really do this? P.S : could this robbery have been conducted in aid of the failing lovelife of one of our boys in blue? |
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Comments (43 of 43)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43A certain section of the human race always do whatever they believe they can get away with. It's always been this way. Therefore it's important to let such people know they can't get away with it. People such as that garda start with petty crimes such as that one, then push the boundary of impunity further. You did right to nip him in the bud.
Aunt Jemima considers beautiful the speech "as a citizen of the state and resident of Dublin I was entitled to be concerned about how my city was being policed," but fell into conniptions of hysterical applause at the deft " wasn't it in fact my civic duty to report a robbery."
More of this, please. And more flowers for the people. Wonderful!
A big hand for Mr. F. Leddy [clapometer rating 16]
you need to cop yourself on, take a strol down Grafton street OPEN YOUR EYES these "flower sellers / beggers" are fronts for pick pocket / prostitution gangs, etc, the children should be in school and not out working the streets.
They start selling flowers, then move on to selling their bodies to pricks like emmett stag & david norris - will you guys ever learn!
The Gardaí try to do their job and there called racists!
please remove it
The cop was wrong to abuse his power but let us not get carried away with pity for the poor immigrant. These people, especially the Albanian,Rumanian gypsy variety do indeed roam the streets picking pockets and stealing purses and shoplifting. Ask any shop security guard what he thinks of them next time you are in Grafton Street. This kind of criminal activity more than supplements their social welfare payments and does the cause of the genuine asylum seeker no good at all. There are one or two genuine ones, y'know.
What is the attraction of Dublin to these Rumanians? Why Dublin and not Berlin say or Amsterdam? Why travel across the whole of Europe to London and then across the Irish Sea to Dublin? Easy pickings?
It just had to be said!
Romanian gypsies come to this country and take up accomodation and social welfare and then go out in the streets begging. You have eyes, haven't you?
Waht they're saying by begging is that this country is not providing for them properly so they're forced to beg, it's a gross insult and they should be deported.
It can be a hard thing to say as the fact is that many immigrants in this country are treated terribly by the state and by much of the public, but many of the "romanian gypsies" all around the country, not just in dublin, use begging and flower selling as a front for theiving.
My father works in town at night and has often seen this in action, and has at times stepped in to warn the person who's wallet is being removed from their pocket.
I have friends who it has happened to. I also resent how hard it is to walk down grafton st any weekend night with out being stopped about 10 times to be asked to spend 8euro on a carnation. How i often feel it's nessecary to walk apart from my partner as the harresement is worse if you are in a couple. I hate seeing kids who have been sent out to beg standing on the street at 4am being screamed at by some drunk dubliner who should know better but has just had enough.
I hate the fact that the charity shop i work in has about 100euros a week worth of goods stolen by the same group of romanian gypsies, that have threatened some of the women working there when they are caught stealing. this 100euros a week that should be being used to save lives is being taken as the shop is seen as an easy target.
I also hate the fact that many small minded people will lump this group with every other immigrant they see and attack or yell abuse at a nigerian woman because a "romanian gypsy" robbed them last week. and as awful much as that irish idiot needs to cop the fuck on, i lay part of the blame on "romanian gypsy".
I don't mind buskers or flowers sellers on the street. they are using their initiative to supplement their meager living, but when that changes into harresment or using it as a distraction while a friend robs you is wrong and should be stopped and it has nothing to do with the race of the person doing it.
but the cops do go about it wrong. as on this incident they have no proper policy and just go directly into bully mode. and treating harrasment with harrasment won't get you anywhere.
It's difficult to speak up when there's a danger of being labelled a racist by PC bullies but you can only state your own experience of what you see daily in the streets.
It's deep in the culture of these people and really, while they're a guest in a foreign country it's a bit annoying to say the least, especially if they're receiving taxpayer's money as well.
A friend of mine was mugged and the sh*t kicked out of him by three Irish guys once... £50 stolen from him.
But I don't (and neither does he) give out about the damn Irish and most of *them* are getting tax-payer's money too, one way or another...
How do you know the same ones the tax-payers money is being spent on are the ones committing the crime? Remember, only *some* refugees are granted asylum. Others may be forced into a life of thievery by the fact that they have no other income.
Interesting that Caspian rates the cultural expertise of shop security guards so highly!
Are you saying the Irish government leaves assylum seekers without any recourse but to steal?
BULLSHIT.
I never use caps but that's complete and utter crap.
Fleddy, security guards and shopworkers see daily and hourly the behaviour of these poor, hard done by illegal immigrants. Like a previous poster, I too worked in a charity shop in London for a while and was forever ejecting these thieves. These gypsies don't seem to know any other way of life bar stealing and begging. Let's face facts! Do they have any moral values at all? Are they religious? Do they have spiritual values? What is their culture? Why are they persecuted in their own country? Is it because they are thieving bastards there and the ordinary Rumanians who have to go out to earn their pittance are sick of them too and are glad to see the back of them?
Enough of the bleeding heart liberals and I am one as far as other matters are concerned. How many of these Rumanian gypsies where on the recent anti-war demos? How many of them do voluntary work to give back to Irish society that provides so well for them? Try asking them for a couple of bob next time you are skint and see what response you get!
"Let's face facts! Do they have any moral values at all? Are they religious? Do they have spiritual values? What is their culture?"
The fact that you question weather Romanians (Gypsies or otherwise) are religous,or are spiritual people shows your complete ignorance of their culture. I also worked in a shop where gypsies regularly shoplifted. These were Irish Travellers. However,the travellers were only caught more often because they are easier to spot and watched like hawks. Infinately more goods were stolen by 'normal' looking people,and these thefts (genarally bigger and more expensive)were only noticed later.Anybody who has ever worked in a shop and who isn't a bigot would no doubt know that this is true in general.
As regards to "ordinary Rumanians"?, wanting to see the back of them, a Romanian friend of mine pretended he was Polish when we first met, somethig he always does.This was not because he was ashamed of his people,but rather because he was afraid of the reaction of people like yourself,labelling a whole community as "thieving bastards".
"Why are they persecuted in their own country?" Probably the same reason Travellers here and the world over. Ignorant, racist people who have no interest in understanding anybody but themselves,no tolerance of any culture but their own, people who believe that the average security guard is a behavourial scientist.
Like a previous poster, I too worked in a charity shop in London for a while and was forever ejecting these thieves. These Irish catholics don't seem to know any other way of life bar stealing and begging. Let's face facts! Do they have any moral values at all? Are they religious? Do they have spiritual values? What is their culture? Why are they persecuted in their own country? Is it because they are thieving bastards there and the ordinary Irish who have to go out to earn their pittance are sick of them too and are glad to see the back of them?
Maria, I didn't actually label all Rumanians as theiving bastards. I was talking about Rumanian Gypsies who are not that much different than our own tinkers except they play better violin and can throw up an occasional Jhango Rhinhart. Excuse my spelling. Yes, yes he was a French gypsy. As it happens I do know a little about European gypsy culture.
If they and Irish tinkers where to make an effort to clean up their act and stop begging and stealing and mugging and messing up every bit of wasteland that they camp on perhaps they would be accepted by society. Nothing wrong with the travelling life providing they contribute something to society instead of take, take take.
Ordinary people can see with their own eyes the way these people behave so no more of your politically correct crap accusing us of being racist and discriminatory towards these bums.
Help them out of their backward, useless lifestyle by all means but give the rest of us a break. We have had enough!
I'm deligted to return to find a vigorous debate on issues around immigration legislation and whether, perhaps, we ought to take a less forgiving attitude towards the more nefarious practices of some of the immigrant population.
Auntie will pass over in silence the less egregious errors in the debate so far, but must insist that contributors remember to distinguish between the two importantly different questions How should we legislate on Romanian immigrants and Are all members of the public entitled to fundamental civil rights and the fair and impartial application of the law.
The reflective indymedia reader will conclude, I hope, that this distinction lies at the very heart of the proper functioning of the institutions of liberal democracy, upon which so crucially depends the right of an individual to persue with gleeful abandon whatever happy and enjoyable form of life she should please, just so long as she does nothing to interfere with the right of others to do the same.
This Jeffersonian ideal of liberty is threatened as soon as the arbitrary excercise of police power starts to cast its foreboding shaddow over the corners of civic society, and it cannot threaten some without undermining the principle of impartiality in general for us all.
Please take care, little ones.
However much a gypsy or refugee might shoplift, turning against the welfare mothers/immigrants/gays/blacks/disabled is just Populist politics and is all playing into the hands of the rich and powerful. Even if there is a majority of people abusing the social welfare system, what they take from you does not come close to what the billionaires and giant corporations do. Businesses don't pay VAT, most of them pay less than 10% tax on their profits, they get government grants, subsidies, the government pays for their infrastructure with taxpayer money, they have the laws changed in their favour, they hide their money offshore, they use and abuse more tax loopholes than any unemployed person could dream of, they have excellent health services, they buy up property and homes which drive the prices for ordinary people into the stratosphere, they bribe judges politicians and police, they don't go to jail for the crimes they commit because they can afford to buy their way out of it........................
If you want to feel cheated by anybody, feel cheated by the rich and powerful, don't turn against the lower classes because that is not going to do you any good at all and it only plays into the pockets of the wealthy.
We are willing to forgive the wealthy whatever they do because they're benefiting the economy by simply existing and investing their vast wealth. Charles Haughey is seen as "a great man" by huge amounts of people, tax cheats who steal millions or even billions from the ordinary people in this country are seen as heroes by the people on the street but If one welfare mother dares to draw her €144 a week and also work a few hours in a corner shop she's seen as the devil incarnate and the sole reason why we can't afford them tommy Hilfinger jeans we so desperately need.
That Garda was clearly racially profiling the flower sellers and presuming that because of their ethnicity that they were committing a crime or likely to be a criminal. Unless Ireland wants race relations to go the way of the US such conduct needs to be nipped in the bud now. Unfortunately there's absolutely no political will to addres this issue and I think people like having scapegoats anyway - divide and conquer is a strategy that always work!!
It's deep in the culture of these people and really, while they're a guest in a foreign country it's a bit annoying to say the least, especially if they're receiving taxpayer's money as well.
So theft is deep in the culture of these people? Like paedophilia is deep in the culture of the irish or mass murder is deep in the culture of the Australians. I love the while they’re guests in a foreign country bit, alright if they do it at home, alright if irish people do it here. what tripe.
“What is their culture?”
Good question. Something anyone who wants to pass judgement on any group of people ought to find out – from the people in question.
“Why are they persecuted in their own country?”
You might ask why were the Jews persecuted, or Blacks, or Homosexuals. Historically Gypsies have been persecuted in almost all countries, they have been forcibly sterilised, illegally imprisoned you name it. They are the forgotten victims of the holocaust, of the many holocausts that have gone on.
How many of them do voluntary work to give back to Irish society that provides so well for them?
Well, em being a parent has it’s limits, and a lack of English doesn’t help, also bear in mind a lot of nomadic people have extremely low literacy skills. Do you have any idea what life is like for “these people”? I mean, what does the average Romani family get from the state? Please quantify this “Irish society that provides so well for them” statement.
Caspian, you’re hypocrisy is self evident in just one paragraph you go from “Nothing wrong with the travelling life…” to “Help them out of their backward, useless lifestyle by all means…” so in fact you are passing judgement on their lifestyle, which is at the very core of who they are. Supplant jew for romany gypsy and you’d be anti-semetic right? You are judging people on racial terms, which makes you racist, whether you disdain the non-pc title or not. Personally I find political correctness utterly pointless - glib over long standing bigotry. You’re opinion is as valid as anyone else’s just admit what you are … racist, xenophobic, alarmist and devoid of compassion.
So I suppose I’m a PC bully because I object to this racial profiling of criminal activity.
“Maria, I didn't actually label all Rumanians as theiving bastards. I was talking about Rumanian Gypsies”
Aah, I see. So it’s just ALL Romanian GYPSIES, well that’s alright then. One big tarry brush.
“What is the attraction of Dublin to these Rumanians?”
Well Caspian, I guess it’s those Cead mile Fáilte… ;-)
BTW: I notice there was a deafening silence around the extremely relevant points raised by David.
I thought the only racists in the world existed in the United States of America. There are racists in Ireland-i am shocked!
I just love it when people crawl out from under their rock to point the finger at itinerants and only itinerants. "Look!, there's some Gypsies stealing". You've been reading too many Enid Blyton novels. Be fair to everybody and don't just point the finger at gypsies to justify your own prejudices against all non-English speaking non-White immigrants. Because that's what it is. If it were Australians doing it, you probably wouldn't be moaning.
But...
I hate Do-gooders who complain when they see Gardai taking flowers of known shoplifters and pick-pockets. It doesn't warrant a complaint. The Gardai are doing their job. They're preventing crime (for once). Let it go.
Immigrants can't move in, get an e50,000 per annum job and move to Castleknock. It takes time for immigrants to become properly part of Irish society. Give people a fair chance, give people who want to training and employment opportunity (like any other citizen) and hopefully in a few years things will be ok. We can't push them into horrible flats and expect them to go away.
There are very vicious and devious criminal gangs involved in most immigrant groups though. We can't just ignore that fact just to suit the hippy brigade who shout "racist" at anybody who has anything bad to say about immigration.
But having said that look around in hotels, shops, resteraunts etc..?. Who's doing the donkey work?. Mainly foreigners so let's not give every immigrant a hard time. Root out the bad and make sure the good are given a fair chance. With a common sense, balanced approach to immigration carried out in a sense of fairness and judged not on some middle-class prejudicial petty standard but the standards by which we judge ourselves we'll be able to hold out heads high.
There are European Union and domestic controls to ensure Ireland receives it's fair share of immigrants so nobody worry, we're not going to be overrun by Mongol hoardes. It's part and parcel of being a Tiger 1st world economy. It's part of the deal - there's no choice other than to accept it.
while some of us are in our judging others mode, is it not worth remembering that Irish Immigrants were heavily involved in organised crime in America to a far greater extent than gypsy's do over here and most Irish people are actually Proud of that heritage.
But, if an American were to characterise all irish immigrants as violent mobsters there would be no shortage of people to take offence.
I know loads of East Europeans who are economic migrants (meaning that they have no right to be here apparently) and they are some of the most honest hard working people that i have ever come across.
Mr. Tarantino,presumably I am the do-gooder you refer to in the above comment. Firstly, since the Gardai have not found the time to correspond about my complaint, I am still in the dark about whether or not said flower-sellers are known pick-pockets or shoplifters. If it were to transpire that they were, do you really think it's ok for the gardai to 'nick' their belongings in such an arbitrary and unrecorded manner.It seems to me that by confiscating their means to a livelihood, the agents of the state are not only refusing to acknowledge the possibility that they might have 'mended their ways' but are actively encouraging them to resort to other less honest kinds of employment.
As regards the EU and domestic immigration controls and the fair share of immigrants that you refer to. Maybe you should explain that to the thousands of Iraqi asylum seekers whose applications have all been recently suspended.Maybe you should also explain it to the other 90%plus applicants who fail in their bid to escape the horrors of regions desolated by the resource-greedy manipulations of Western foreign policy.
Finally I'm reminded of an addage about the danger in moderation when I discern the fatalism and submissiveness inherent in your last sentence. Please go back to making films Mr. Tarantino.
So many comments, such a complicated issue, I don't know where to begin.
Firstly, about Romanian gypsies "all" receiving welfare payments and then on top of that "stealing and begging" to add to their income. I find this statement unfounded and very flippant. First of all, not all Romanian gyspies who are in Ireland have applied for asylum- There is such a thing as "undocumented foreigners/immigrants/aliens" and it is possible, believe it or not to get into Ireland without having to report to the police/Dept. of Justice etc.(Ever heard of sealed container trucks and the widespread people-smuggling mafias existing under our very noses?)Thus, not all Romanian Gypsies are receiving welfare payments.
Secondly, comments about immigrants supposedly living like kings by "sponging off" the social welfare system and receiving huge amounts from the social welfare dept plus benefits for this that and the other, plus rent-money, car-money, new prams etc. etc. is totally blown out of proportion. 1) This is partially due to the total and utter irresponsible way in which the mainstream press chooses to sensationalise isolated stories
2)partially due to a percentage of the Irish public (i won't say what percentage because that would be pure speculation, as i simply don't have access to those "statistics" and unlike others, i´m scared to use words like "all" "everybody" "always" and "never"), who gullibly believe all they read in the papers plus use isolated anecdotes they have heard or witnessed to back up their generalised arguments, e.g "all romanian gypsies steal and beg" or "their WHOLE culture is based on thievery.." etc.
3) partially due to the Government and its policies. The whole media set-up of helping to create a criminalised, dehumanised and stereotyped image of immigrants (when was the last time you read or heard anything positive about an immigrant? The answer in many cases is probably never, because "nice", law-abiding, immigrants are just not considered newsworthy) is very convenient for the Government. Let the Irish citizens create a hate for the new scapegoat for all the ills of society, instead of pointing the finger at those who actually make the policies. WHY DON'T WE BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER INJUSTICE? (here referring to complaints of immigrants getting fat welfare checks while there are Irish people on the streets and on housing lists for years...etc)WHY ARE WE HAPPY TO LIVE IN A SYSTEM THAT IS TOTALLY DYSFUNCTIONAL ON A LOT OF LEVELS BUT CONTENT TO BLAME THE LATEST SCAPEGOAT FOR THE SUPERFICIAL EVERYDAY CONSEQUENCES FOR PROBLEMS THAT GO MUCH DEEPER AND ARE FAR MORE COMPLICATED THAN THEY SEEM?
If you really want to worry about something that affects us all or will affect us sooner or later, check out this website:
www.newamericancentury.org
(sorry, its not linked to the topic here, but in my mind, everything is interconnected in some way.)
That to point out the truth that a lot of refugees are totally screwing the system and are criminals is not racist....it is simply being honest.
That's not to say that a lot of them are totally honest but judging by the earlier posts and from experience there seems to be a lot of you who think these people can do no wrong just because they are a minority. That Garda was probably only doing his job and stopping your man from pick pocketing if you ask me but with no evidence could not arrest him.
Ireland has precious little migrants?
that it is one of the most racist states in Europe?
that there are only slightly fewer offensive terms referring to the Irish than other traditionally hated ethnic groups?
That precious few of the Irish live in Ireland?
That the Irish state leaves many of its poor with few other options than to steal.
That the Irish do precious little to facilitate integration of migrants?
That the climate is so shitty that many of those who have crossed the continent despair?
That an unknown figure but one inexcess of 500,000,000€ = 500,000,000$ was lost from the Irish State to corruption mostly by Fianna Fail politicians?
That Irish border controls are heavily reliant on the Customs work of the UK and the Border control of France?
That Ireland is stuck irretrievably up its arse?
That of the ten most serious lynching incidents where migrants were attacked in plain sight full light of day for no substantial reason other than being a "foreigner" in the last five years, one occured in Dublin?
That the accusation of prostitution laid against the Roma or Rumanian ethnic community is unfounded and a racist slur. That the endentured labour that fuels the prostitution of Ireland and other European states mainly draws on women from the former Soviet Union and Western Africa?
you say Ireland "is one of the most racist states in Europe".
And your evidence for this is?
Not that I disagree that there is racism, as demonstrated by many of the comments above. And the worst racism is still against the Travellers.
by the way, editors, Max's comment above is offensive and libellous and should have been deleted as requested by dowtcha. If you are consciously leaving it would you tell us why?
David's points about who we choose to accuse were really excellent and clear; it is true that it is easier to serve the interests of the rich by demonising the poor and creating a focus which rests on justifying their continued vilification in the press, than it is to embrace the complexity and difficulty which exists in condemning ANY group of people wholesale. This whole discussion is rife with generalisations about different kinds of people; and it seems so much easier to focus on talking about how bad one group or another is, than it is to address the more crucial issues which seem to be arising out of this incident;
in the ensuing debate about whether or not Gardai or immigrants are "to blame", what gets lost is the plain issue evident in the actual story itself; which is, do we want the Gardai to be able to get away with this type of behaviour? Should they have the kind of license to carry on like this, irrespective of any "justifications" people may actually feel the Gardai had in this instance? Are we to assume that we are happy to have Gardai who subjectively select a "response" to what they see happening and act accordingly? It would seem to me very dangerous to try and justify their behaviour, because it gives them a type of power which doesn't allow for the idea that perhaps their opinions are bigotted and their behaviour innappropriate.
It is not about whether Gardai are all bastards or immigrants are all thieves - the real issue is, do we want to continue giving the Gardai a type of power which precludes their ability to make erroneous judgements and act out of hand, simply because of a submissive notion that, as hands of the state they are morally irrefutable?
i think, i hope, not.
http://www.equality.ie/meetthe.shtml
why is the Equality Board all white and all irish? just a bit ironic, i think
Why is the equality board white?
Most of the do-gooders in this forum have probably never experienced real discrimination. And news flash: while the PC thing might be to focus on perceived racism against poor immigrants, i dare say that the majority of discrimination happens against ordinary "white" Irish people eg. blind people, wheelchair bound people etc.
Just because you people see a few Romanians begging outside your fancy nightclubs like the gaiety doesn't mean thats the most important thing in this country.
The observations re.Gardai harassment of 'Rumanians'in Dublin should be seen as part of an ongoing campaign relating to the corporate takeover of what is supposed to be PUBLIC space.Artists,craftspeople,musicians etc. who have no other outlet for their work are regularly harassed for not having a licence [which corrupt local councillors---usually businessmen---refuse to issue].It seems that the only way to combat this further example of creeping fascism is to confront the corruption at its place of residence ie.local politicians/councillors etc.The chief local Pearse Street 'drone'responsible for this harassment is SGT.TOM CONWAY TEL.01 6669000.Ring him up & ask are the Gardai so overstaffed they must waste public money on this nonsense instead of tackling real crime.
I fucking hate when somebody points out something bad about immigration (like organised crime) people say "oh We Irish" are at it too. And we Irish are usually subjected to the laws of the land and are demonised in newspapers and the media in general when "we're" involved in it.
Unfortunately, anybody who has any questions about immigration (even if that person thinks immigration is benificial and is pro-immigration)
they're accused of being racist and xenophobic.
That's complete bollox.
The 90% of people are rejected because they apply for "political asylum" when they're applications are bogus. They may have applied previously in another EU country, they may have been involved in organised crime, they may have use different identities to apply before and more often than not they're economic migrants and not fleeing their country for political reasons.
Applications are not rejected because we're racists. They're rejected because for one reason or another - they don't qualify. So stick to the facts and don't pick out figures and blame it on Irish xenophobia to suit your own personal view.
I'm pro-immigration but I don't see why we have to accept the traditional model of immigration where people are ghettoised into their respective groups have to work as a neu slave class. I don't accept that we should turn a blind eye to organised crime gangs just to suit the PC brigade who shout "racist" at anybody who questions immigration - although if we don't and won't tackle the same issues in our own society I've no faith that the Government will tackle them in immigrant groups. You'll no doubt be accusing me of racism after reading this. Shame.
If you seen a homeless person being moved on from a doorway would you be as outraged?. Or do you reserve your outrage for, and only for, Romans?.
PC hypocrisy strikes again.
...well at least until your eyes adjust to it. Other cultures can appear strange to us if we are not exposed to them. I humbly suggest inviting in the next romanian gypsy that calls to your door. Over a nice cup of tea you can discuss the misconceptions you may be building up about each other and realise that you have a lot of common ground. The first hurdle to integration is the lack of interaction fuelled by a spiral of mistrust. The gardai are unfortunately at the "point of sale" when it comes to cultural integration and it is doubly important that their actions are legal, justified and non discriminatory. Crass generalisations and racial stereotyping do not carry any weight when the issue to be addressed is the abuse of power.
Do you not think it is strange that you rage against business and corporate takeover when you discuss selling goods on the street.
Selling flowers music or whatever is ALL part of the consumer society driven by money. No more or no less then the woman or man who rents a small shop and tries to make a living selling newspapers or sweets.
The public space to which you refer has to be regulated for the common good. Or else you'd see coca cola and mcd's all over the street. The real problem is not access to space. the pheonix park is one of the largest parks in the world. St annes pk and Bushy park are huge. The real issue is access to the "market". people selling things (or picking pockets) understandably want to be near as many people as possible with money. Note number of "artists" on grafton st. v. no. of artists on foley st. So lets cop our selves on. just because you've read michael moore and noam chomsky, and have your hair in dreds does not allow you to fumble in the greasy till and at the same time profess an adherence to the high moral ground. At least you don't get executed for trying to leave ireland.
"At least you don't get executed for trying to leave ireland."
It would be a cause worth dying for.
You've totally missed the point sunshine -artists are offering only the product of their labour,not selling what is already in the shops so the argument re. 'coca-cola or mcd's'(whatever they are)is irrelevant.We have the same right to earn a living from our work as anyone else ;because large retailers are only interested in mass- produced crud they can put an enormous mark-up on we have no other outlet than the street.Regulate by all means, but central to regulation should be a fairly run licensing system which the 1996 Casual Trading Act in theory provides for but which corrupt local authorities have failed to comply with.Either we live in a 'free-enterprise Democracy' or we don't & if a guy trying to sell what he makes to support himself & his family is criminalised as a result of bye-laws drawn up by the gombeen men that run this kleptocracy(have you not paid any attention to the Tribunals re.links between business &politicians ?)then this is blatant attack on our human & Constitutional rights (try Article 45.2.(i)&(iii)for a start).
Your inane ramblings about 'Michael Moore'(never heard of him),'Noam Chomsky'(never read him) & 'hair in dreads' or whatever jibberish indicates a pretty limited thought process-perhaps you are stultified by some cretinous office job : if so try & get out some time into the real world of the self-employed,or if you are a business person treat yourself to a w/e in Barcelona & see how a vibrant street life can enhance the ambience &appeal of a city that everyone can benefit from ; compare it to a Dublin
where in the 'cultural quarter' of Temple Bar artists are liable to arrest yet Gardai display a remarkable tolerance to drunken English weekenders vomiting & urinating in public-I wonder why ?
So the short end of the stick is that you agree that street selling needs to be regulated.
These laws are made by politicians. They are elected by us.
Gardai enforce these laws. Ringing Store Street gardai will not change the law.
Campaigning for different law will change the law.
Protesting against the gardai, instead of the politician gives the outward appearence of a movement/individual who is not interested in democracy.
Now i understand that many socialists/communists of various sorts do want to overthrow the state. Well thats what they learned in their marxist teach ins anyway.
But if your only aim is to increase the no. of permits made available to Romanian flower sellers, i humbly suggest that the more fanciful rhetoric of the far left (ie denounce everything as facism, provoke reaction from authorities, infiltrate trade unions etc.) is not necessary.
Now i don't work in an office but i feel your comments do need some comment.
If you feel that artists are a valuable part of society i agree with you. If you feel artists are of more worth and superior to any other person, whether he or she works in an office - who knows maybe they process claims for permits
, I will not agree with you.
Did you not learn in school that we are all special?
It might also be of note that spain is ruled by a right wing government.
this discussion is not really about government regulation, it is about descrimination by the gardai. keep that in mind.
everyone at indymedia are assholes
Official start of the European Roma Information Office in Brussels on 18 March 2003
Press statement
On Tuesday 18 March the European Roma Information Office will start its work in Brussels, in the heart of the European Union.
The European Roma Information Office –ERIO – is an initiative of a group of Roma leaders and activists. The aim of this European Roma Information Office is to realise the legitimate rights of the Romany people in Europe. The director of the Information Office will be Angela Kocze, a well known Romany activist, sociologist from Hungary. She will be assisted by a deputy director.
The European Roma Information Office will give information to the bodies of the European Union, such as the Commission and the European Parliament and other international organisations, about the actual facts concerning all Human Rights, Political and Social Economic Rights of the Roma in the EU member states and associated partners.
The European Roma Information Office will concentrate on the enlargement process, funds and programs, the implementation of the Race Equality Directive and all other issues, vital for the improvement of daily live for Roma in Europe.
It will serve as a connecting point between the Roma grassroots organisations, and the international organisations such as the Council of Europe, OSCE, and NGOs like the European Roma Rights Centre etc.
It will also provide the Roma organisations with information about the European Union, in order to create mutual interest.
For more information:
Judith Kiers, office manager ERIO, mob. tel. +31 6 5242-1987
Visiting address – European Roma Information Office (ERIO)
Avenue Edouard Lacomble 17
B-1040 Brussels
Tel/Fax: +32-(0)2-733-3462/733-3875
My God, when I read this comments, here on Indymedia what is good and what is bad , bad and good from the left and bad and dood from the rights, it shows that in fact Ireland is really at a Euroepan Level where for example France has been at around 1961 after the end of the Algerian War. IRISH IN IRELAND WEAK UP - You aer now in the EU , part of it and there are good things and bad things. This imigrants what I have seen in Dublin Bus Station in the morning after arriving from Barcelona this has been surprising as I had seen Ireland in 1992, but this look like a small town lets say Colmar in France. Sure for the 'white' race and as I said in my other comment this new Irish Bourgoise since the Euro, this Governement and this Public Employes which seem to be 'hidden' somewhere but certainly not at the place where they should be, all this has to be changed in Ireland if Ireland not only wants to participate or profit from the Euro, but be part of the new European Union.
I said that: "Let me tell you one thing there in Ireland, the Irish today this 'new rich bourgeoisie class' are much more British then the British in Windsor. The Irish and Ireland has forgotten their past and has become a horse riding polo playing nation with the EU flag on their head, and a Windsor flag in the hearth. This is Ireland today. Ireland has agreed on the Euro, and they did well if you look at the constructions build with the help of the EU, but the rest is in Windsor. Being a better British then the 'Brits' that what all really think.
50,000,000 Irish are abroad, and the remaing keeps Ireland like an Irish Ltd. (I am woundering way?)"
So the Irish should face the fact one time. All who knows Ireland a bit better knows that the best way to get something fast is 'to know someone', but now there is the Government making a hell of profit from the EU, there is the Gradai in the middle how in charge to arrange the 'case' between the Governmnets business and citizen and because the Government is until one day before election well hidden, all citizen can 'touch' is the Gardai. I have seen the Gardai in Letterkenny and I can assure you that their fucking job is more hard being in the middle between this hidden Government and Government Agencies and the Citizien, the Gardai in Letterkenny had to take decission about 'illegal or not illegal' visa or overstay, because for weeks they could not reach anyone in DUBLIN.
The fact is, that the Iris are ready to challenge the EU and be part of it, the Gardi maybe, but the Governmnet of Ireland is still acting like it had to seel some 100,000 tons of Northern Irland beef to France and back to the UK.
The Government of Ireland and his Ministers a copies or would be copies of the Windsors and as it looks like they can not handle the space between the citizen and the entry in the EU and therefore the Irish are like in a whole of nonsense. Dublin, the Banks, the Insurances all works fine and all foreigners working for this banks had no problems with Visa and housing etc. , because here the Irish Government has a open ear, but on the other side in Donegal Irish citizen can not afford their rent and the end of the months. This is the problem of Ireland. A Windsor Government in Dublin and the rest......