Help the 1916 Socialist Commemoration

by eoin mor Mon Apr 21, 2003 23:23

If Labour Youth want to identify so strongly with Connolly, what would they think of his last staement, the last two paragraphs of which were:

"Believing that the British Government has no right in Ireland, never had any right in Ireland, and never can have any right in Ireland, the presence, in any one generation of Irishmen, of even a respectable minority, ready to die to affirm that truth, makes that Government for ever a usurpation and a crime against human progress.
"I personally thank God that I have lived to see the day when thousands of Irish men and boys, and hundreds of Irish women and girls, were ready to affirm that truth, and to attest it with their lives if need be."

by Shane - Socialist Youth/ Party Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:22

In my last post I write by mistake:

"If Labour is genuinely left wing why does it call for the end of Capitalism instead of "civilised Capitalism."

I haven't gone mad, it was a typo error I meant to put in why does it not call for the end of Capitalism!

by Kev - kwag, sp & others Sun Apr 20, 2003 23:53

Except, while I have long hair I am most definatley not a hippy, as anyone who knows me can testify.

But your generalisation of people with long hair amuses me. I think this shows up your simple narrow mindedness. Long hair = hippy. Marxist = long hair = hippy. Long Haired Marxist = future Fine Gael voter.

Your attitude reminds me of when i was in school and the most common 'insult' thrown at me was 'hippy'. I guess this is indictative of your line of argument? ie childish and without any basis.

I can assure you that I will never be a Fine Gael voter, and rest assured Jack Wall will never receive a vote from me either.

Incidently, where were the backbone of the anti-war movement (yes i mean the LP) when our Anti-war/Occupation demo was on yesterday in Newbridge? Or is there no more votes to be garnered from it? Maybe you could inform me?

The Labour Party - on a mission to Civilise Capitalism!!!

Indeed.

by Daithi Sun Apr 20, 2003 19:41

Ok, ok, enough. If all of you met face to face you wouldn't be acting like this - he said she said i'm better you're not sellout traitor right-winger (and by the way Shane is from Tallaght so you can put that cheap shot to bed) so why do it here? Back off a little :) Debate is good but mudslinging is not (and don't worry, you have every right to call each other all the names you like, no editor is going to interfere with that at all, but no-one comes out of it looking in any way sensible)

Daithi (not as an editor nor a Labour member but as an puzzled observer)

by Shane Kenna Sun Apr 20, 2003 19:09

Is this how labour Youth responds to my criticism of their politics by slandering me as a "prat," middle class etc. Labour Youth refuses to answer any of the criticisms raised, claiming all I do is talk. This is further evidence of the decline in Labour Youth. They cant answer genuine political criticism because they don't know to as they know it is correct.

"the above sp member is obviously bitter about labour. good. if he does live in tallaght (and he probably doesn't) it's probably the middleclass part of it. no normal person from tallaght would come on a lefty website going 'look at me i'm working class' as sp boy has."

Where did I say "look at me I'm working class?" I am working class actually. My family's relation to the means of production is that they have to work for a living. Thats all you need to know. Secondly I am not a boy but a man.

"i would advise you to go knock on some of your neighbours doors and tell them you are trotskite communists. they would either laugh at you or slam the door in your face."

Humm I am a Trotskyite Communist. People know this. Jaysus this guy reminds me of Michael McDowell, im just waiting for him to start ranting about reds under the bed.

"the left in this country can never take power while we have a load of angsty men yarning on about top down democratic centralism."

Labour is not left wing. If as you say it genuinely opposses privatisation, then why was not an issue during the Nice Campaign? Further to that point why has Ho Chi Quinn constatly avoided the question. Why have Labour been silent about the privatisation of the Bus network in Dublin? If Labour is genuinely left wing why does it call for the end of Capitalism instead of "civilised Capitalism."

Why has Labour Youth not answered any of my questions in the above posting? Instead it has gone on a rant against me personally. This is clear evidence that the case is the politics of the Labour Youth movement are bankrupt, they can no longer defend them.

"look at the amount of rubbish he wrote!a working class person would not write so much shite. i know i live in finglas east."

Ok to point out a number of corrections about the above sentance. Living in Finglas East doesn't make you working class, working class is defined by your relation to the means of production not by where you live. Ok so I am shite talking according to Labour Youth, so lets go back to what I said and make our own minds up:

I had previously written:

1. Connolly was a Marxist and Anti Capitalist so he wouldn't want anything to do with todays Labour Party and Youth movement. According to Labour Youth this is "Shite" Connolly was no Marxist and accepted that Capitalism can only be reformed.

2.Capitalism can not be reformed - Labour Youth believes that the Corporations of this world are going to allow the workers to get the upper hand in higher wages, shorter working hours and longer holidays all of which are bad for profit. Can you really see Bill Gates telling his workers "oh here you go have a pay rise on me, likewise im sacking the bosses let the workers choose committee's to run the factories"

3. Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and the PD's are the same in their support for the policies of neo liberalism.

4. Former leaders of the "Labour" Party such as leaders as O'Brien, Johnson, Dick Spring, Ho Chi Quinn and current leader Pat the Rabbitte were (are)the opposite of James Connolly and what he stood for.

5. Ho Chi Quinn did give tax cheats an oppertunity to avoid prison. According to Labour Youth this never happened, I'm talking shite.

6. Socialist Youth is active in all satges of politics in this country from local to national to university/ college to Secondary schools. We hold weekly events and activities.

7. By admitting that "Labour" is playing the same politics as the Capitalist parties, Labour Youth is admitting that Labour is a party of business as opposed to workers.

8. Labour had a poor general election. With Ho Chi Quinn struggling to be re elected ( Leading him to resign) and Pat Rabitte coming last here in Dublin South west.

9. I am not in the Socialist Workers Party.

10. The spirit of 1916 (I presume you meant the ICA and Connolly) was the opposite of what the Labour Party today stands for. Again Labour Youth is commenting that Connolly was not an anti capitalist and Marxist.

11. "Labour" elected representatives refuse to take the average workers wage.

12.According to Labour Youth I am a Hippy, who has long hair, I denied this but again I'm talking shite.

In relation to the European Union. Labour Youth writes:

"and whats more we go into the eu and tell them that instead of bitching on a website."

The EU is an entity of business. Why do you think they introduced the Common currency? It wasn't so that it would be easier for Ho Chi Quinn to go on his holidays to Spain and sun himself. It was because business preferes the common currency.

The European Union is lobbyed by Big Business daily, it will never change.

I guess that when you talk about telling the EU you are opposed to Privatisation it is through the same "Socialist" Grouping in the EU that New Labour and the German SDP are members of, of course we all know how opposed to privatisation these two "Socialist" parties are.

"the above sp member is obviously bitter about labour" Yes I am bitter about Labour. They betreayed my class to the hand of profit. As I shouted at Ho Chi Quinn when he stood on the platform with Haidar "You and your party sold out." Indeed I look forward to a future without the Labour Party and the Champaigne socialists.

Finally Labour Youth write:

"cop on to your self, relax, get a girlfriend, take a deep breath, admit all the good things labour has done for this country in the same way i'd admit if joe higgins had proposed a good law, and log off. "

Labour has done nothing for this country but sell the workers out. During the war of independence they adopted a policy of "Labour must wait." During independence they propped up the Cumann na nGeadheal party. Later on they went into coalition with parties whose agenda was anti working class. Further to this they went into government with Fianna Fail.

Labour allowed Tax cheats to get away scot free from imprisonment again the list goes on.

If you reply please refrain from huring personal insults at me and answer some genuine criticism. So far I have made genuine points about the "Labour Party" and "Labour Youth" and the reply ive gotten is that i am talking shite.

by Des Sun Apr 20, 2003 19:03

The political education that you receive in “Labour Youth” must be really appalling. You were opposed to one of the basic elements of the Nice treaty (privatisation) (a treaty that furthers the neo-liberal agenda) so you then voted for the treaty including privatisation. War Monger Blair and Hatchet Thatcher would be proud of your conversion to the Capitalist cause. After voting for the treaty, you then state that you would oppose it in the EU. What kind of logic is that?, one thing is certain, such a policy would not be implemented by any party with the most remote connection to socialism. BTW Joe Higgins never introduced service charges (Spring), tax amnesties (Quinn), is that your idea of “good laws”.

by labour youth member Sun Apr 20, 2003 16:02

jesus you could really talk for ireland. that's all you do talk.

by the way there is no article 133 of the nice treaty! it was in a previous treaty and the nice treaty only had an amendment to it.
I voted yes to the treaty as i believe other people in applicant countries should get the kind of money and resources that ireland got from the eu. no one is happy about the privatisation agenda at work in eu. we oppose it. and whats more we go into the eu and tell them that instead of bitching on a website.

the above sp member is obviously bitter about labour. good. if he does live in tallaght (and he probably doesn't) it's probably the middleclass part of it. no normal person from tallaght would come on a lefty website going 'look at me i'm working class' as sp boy has.

i would advise you to go knock on some of your neighbours doors and tell them you are trotskite communists. they would either laugh at you or slam the door in your face.

the left in this country can never take power while we have a load of angsty men yarning on about top down democratic centralism.

look at the amount of rubbish he wrote!a working class person would not write so much shite. i know i live in finglas east.

cop on to your self, relax, get a girlfriend, take a deep breath, admit all the good things labour has done for this country in the same way i'd admit if joe higgins had proposed a good law, and log off.

your yarns take up too much of other people's time

by Shane - Socialist Youth and Party Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:04

"Regarding our left wing credentials i would say the following. We are the only party to engage the right in this country and change this for the better."

Change what for the better? The statement is rather unclear. Are you talking about changing Fianna Fail and Fine Gael and reforming Irish Capitalism for the better? If this is the case you are quite frankly barking up the wrong tree (Or simply barking). Fianna Fail/Fine Gael/ are identical bar the difference in their formations from the civil war. The PD's are also equally identical. All are slaves of the market economy and the neo liberal agenda. Therefore they are in the pockets of the fat cats who pull their strings. As such they will never move to reform the Irish Capitalist system because it would be bad for business and progit. Capitalism cannot be reformed it can only be replaced.

Now where would Connolly stand on that? He would staunchly oppose that policy of the "Labour" Party, because Connolly was a Marxist and an Anti Capitalist who had no time for reformists and bureaucrats such as the current clique in the Labour Party. Can you really imagine Connolly if he were alive today sharing a platform with such leaders as O'Brien, Johnson, Dick Spring, Ho Chi Quinn and Pat the Rabbitte? Connolly would be ashamed that they have destroyed a party that he created from a party of workers into a party of business.

"I will not excuse he actions of Quinn and Spring although the former created huge employment as minister for finance."

Quinn also gave tax cheats a chance to avoid prison. He was also in support of a deal with Ahern to allow Labour overcome the technical grouping in the Dáil.

"The left in this country has been sidelined due to its membership: hormonal hippies with personal identity crises. The mere appearance of these people repels working class peopleand country people from voting left. Want to prove this? Watch the swp canvass in tallaght."

Living in Tallaght I had to answer this. Firstly I'm not a hippy, I'm a socialist. I don't have long hair - Only one person I know of within the Dublin city branch of SY has long hair. Even so having long hair doesn't weaken anyones political policies does it? I'm sure people can see how foolish and elitist "Labour Youth member's" argument is.

My friend in Labour youth then goes on to make a snobbish elitist statement:

"The mere appearance of these people repels working class peopleand country people from voting left. Want to prove this? Watch the swp canvass in tallaght."

Well, firstly the SWP do not canvass in Tallaght. The Socialist Party canvass' in Tallaght. I know this as I am a member of the Tallaght SP/SY. The Socialist Party has a base in working class estates and communities in Tallaght. This is mirrored across Dublin, Cork and wherever we campaign. Our campaigns are greatly aided by our Youth section. In the last general election our Youth section in Dublin played a strong role in the re election of Joe Higgins and the successful vote of Clare Daly.

Further to that point our Youth section unlike Labour Youth as the above comment from "Labour Youth member" indicates is not elitist and snobbish. In comparison to Labour Youth we are active on the ground, hold weekly stalls and activites and partcipate in politics at National, Local, college and secondary school stages. Labour Youth only operates in one of these stages as has a dwindling membership of careerists and elitist members further to that point searching for Labour Youth outside of any University is like trying to find Ho Chi Quninn travelling on a bus - impossible.

"If we are bourgeois it is because we engage the capitalists on their own terms. Different times call for different measures."

Labour Youth is admitting that Labour is now a Capitalist Party. By playing on the terms of the Irish establishment you must therefore be accepting Capitalism and the free market. If playing on their terms means that you are willing to accept the privatisation aspects of article 133 of the Nice Treaty, Partnership and Bureaucracy in the Trade Union Leadership - all of which are a bad deal for workers. How can you even claim to be left without laughing.

"Getting your hormones out of the labour party for not being socialist enough before you get your haircut and work in an office and voting Fine Gael the rest of your life, solves nothing."

Generally I wont comment on this type of laughable argument. Again this is further evidence of the elitist stance of Labour Youth. I don't need a hair cut thank you very much. The Fine Gael party will be dead before I am, as the results from the last general election indicated. Labour probally will be to because people are turning away in their thousands from them.

"Capitalism will not be civilised by socialist workers, but only by normal people rising up and standing up for themselves. That was the spirit of 1916 which the labour party has continued today."

I'm not a Socialist Worker. You raise an interesting point "normal people rising up and standing up for themselves." Labour refuses to call for this. The Socialist Party and Socialist Youth do call for this. Only an organised party of the working class can do this. Labour is not a party of the working class as you admitted above is playing by the rules of the Capitalist parties.

Further to that you go on "Capitalism will not be civilised" This is the clearest indication yet of the fact that Labour is now a party of big business. It's not even social democrat. Labour Youth has admitted that it wants to civilise capitalism not abolish it.

The spirit of 1916 was two shades - Nationalistic and Socialist. The socialist shade if they were alive today would want nothing to do with the elitist "Labour Party" and "Labour Youth." Connolly would genuinely recognise that Party as a party of sell outs and a party of business that is no longer a party of the working class.

"We go out and get as many votes as we can to implement our programme. Don't like it? Tough. That's democracy. "

So let me get this straight your programme is as follows -

1. Privatisation of industry
2. Half arsed criticism of the Government
3. Refusing to rule out coalition with either Fianna Fail or Fine Gael the two major Capitalist parties in Ireland.
4. Third way politics
5. Not accepting the wage of the average worker. (Joe Higgins only takes the wage of an average worker - it's SP policy for elected representatives to do so. If the Labour Party are socialist why don't they do this?")
6. "Civilise" Capitalism - effectively do deals with big business and allow for privatisation sale'sof the century.

The list goes on. Again I call on any genuine socialist in Labour Youth to leave and join a radical alternative. As "Labour Youth Members post has shown your in the wrong movement. LY is clearly careerist, elitist and full of budding Tony Blairs. Again I ask how can Labour claim to be in the descendency of James Connolly the Marxist and Socialist who wanted to destroy Capitalism and the rule of profit when all Labour Youth and the Labour Party want to do is "Civilise Capitalism."

by Magneto Sat Apr 19, 2003 20:23

Heres a piece fro the other thread about the commemoration. The SP are conveniently ignoring it.

OK - SP Rewriting history, is the truth not convenient enough?
by New Direction - Old Bastard Fri, Apr 18 2003, 9:02pm

I'm amazed to see that the politics of Labour Youth in the mid-to-late 80's of the last century are being debated, and it's nice to see someone cares, but if OK - SP wants to fill in the gaps of what he knows he should start by asking someone who was there and not by inventing the most convenient (for his/her politics) version.

Labour Youth wasn't abolished, but it had been systematically ignored as irrelevant and membership was quite low and had an enormous turnover (lots of people joined, were very active for about 6 months, and when the world-wide revolution didn't happen before the end of their mid-term break as promised went back to their life). The structure of the time meant that every Dail constitutency party of the LP couldset up 1 youth section (and no more) if they had 10 members under 26 and each of these had the same number of delegates (8 I think) irrespective of their membership. Donegal North East (10 members) ended up with the same number of delegates as Kildare (150). This made the organisation more than a little unrepresentative, but that didn't bother the party leadership, it made it all the easier to ignore them.

A group of folks around Labour Left (you'd probably describe about half of them as 'stalinist' if you're a troskyist)the rest were generally 50/50 between hard left/republicans and soft-left anti-coalitionists came together, set up a group called "New Direction" as mentioned above, got a new constitution where it was 1 delegate per 5 youth members (and which allowed rural constituencies split their youth section, e.g. North Kildare etc) passed (against the Militant at the time, although beyond the fact that it would result in them losing power I can't recall a single reason they came out with against the rule changes other than the fact that they didn't come up with them) and they lost the leadership the following conference, by about 63;37 again if I remember correctly.

For the following few years LYth became a support base for Labour Left, a grouphat I presume has long since collapsed.

This led to a couple of purges in the Millies at the time, with one prominent member being banished to the Gulag of Cork, and soon after a number were expelled for 'incorrect' views on what was happening in Eastern Europe (one guy ruefully remarked to me at that time that he'd been expelled form a party that didn't exist ! ;-)
Soon after they ceased to be much of a force in LYth, their share of the following youth conference vote was lower.

Looking back, it was an odd time, as the Millies while undoubtedly on the left of the party still had bizarre blindspots. They refused to second a motion on the right to choose that a Dublin South East delegate proposed for example, and they also refused to second a motion calling for gay rights. On both occasions their official position should have been to support it, but they felt these issues were 'diversions'. They also seemed to think that anyone who disagreed with their then position on the North (A motion from a millie delgate at youth conference '88 described working class unity in the north as "a reality")
was demonised as a provo.

by Labour Youth member Sat Apr 19, 2003 20:15

I see our proposal has been taken in the way i predicted it would.

I think many of us know the quotes from connolly to prove he was a socialist republican. He did disaprove of sinn fein in general and was coaxed into the rising as pearse and macdonagh was influenced by his writings. They were truly trying to create a socialist republic. The fact that the main left wing ideologues were killed and the spirit of the rising was left in the mantle of the right, de valera and collins, would have abhored connolly.

Regarding our left wing credentials i would say the following. We are the only party to engage the right in this country and change this for the better. I will not excuse he actions of Quinn and Spring although the former created huge employment as minister for finance.
The left in this country has been sidelined due to its membership: hormonal hippies with personal identity crises. The mere appearance of these people repels working class peopleand country people from voting left. Want to prove this? Watch the swp canvass in tallaght.

These alleged 'lefties' want to slag labour. Fine. If we are bourgeois it is because we engage the capitalists on their own terms. Different times call for different measures. The vast majority of people in this country believe society as it is now to be natural. You must accpet that before you try and change their way of thinking.
Only then when they are open to considering what you say, will they vote for you.
Getting your hormones out of the labour party for not being socialist enough before you get your haircut and work in an office and voting Fine Gael the rest of your life, solves nothing.

Capitalism will not be civilised by socialist workers, but only by normal people rising up and standing up for themselves. That was the spirit of 1916 which the labour party has continued today.

We go out and get as many votes as we can to implement our programme. Don't like it? Tough. That's democracy.

by Ois Sat Apr 19, 2003 18:18

White didn't die. Rather went on to become an anarchist. (Christ, how sad am I!).

by James Connolly - Socialist Party Sat Apr 19, 2003 18:16

The IRA wasn't around in 1916 it was formed in 1919.

You are confusing the IRA with the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen army.

There was a stark difference between the Volunteers and the ICA. Connolly said it himself he wanred his troops to hold on to their rifles as they would have to use them against the volunteers because both their goals were different - Connolly wanted a workers republic the Nationalists wanted a nationalist Republic built on the principles of liberal economics and the gaelic dream of the IRB.

by limerick1919 Sat Apr 19, 2003 16:14 limerick1919 at hotmail dot com

hold up Shane socialist youth- you say that Provisional Sinn Fein are connected to Arthur Griffith? In terms of divisions splits etc could you not say the same for Pat Rabbitte. de rossa etc all coming from the stickie side.
And weren't most of the present socialist party in the labour party until they were kicked out in the 80s. What was militants position on section 31 back then??

by Joe Mac Sat Apr 19, 2003 14:30

Strange how this commemoration is not mentioned on the events section of the Labour Partys website. No posters or leaflets around the place. Is this a crank posting?? Could we get more details from Labour youth. Whats the format, speakers etc. As i note there has been no response from Labour Youth to comments on the original thread. Whats happening guys?

by JP Sat Apr 19, 2003 13:16

Shane Socialist Party you say "middle class dominated Irish Volunteers".

What claptrap are you barking on about. Surely the act of revolution was enough or, in your narrow minded obssesion with "purity" did they need to be "working class"?

The barking on about middle classes that parts of the scattered left go on about is quite disturbing. This purity of process, that it seems to be, is really quite sick and akin to the deranged scribblings of a paedophile search for the perfect child.

Have a great Easter break, or do you not recognise it because "Easter is a socially constructed space for the middle class, in conjunction with the clergy, to stratgise in how to further exploit the working class".

And Shane, how did you guys in Conzaga do in the Senior Cup this year?

by Dave B Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:47

For your information Connolly was appointed Vice President of the Irish Republic and head of the Dublin Division Irish Republican Army at Easter 1916.

by Cam Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:57

remember that it is hard to find a single movement that can embrace all of our ideals! It is best to support as many as possible in order to increase the volume of our voices and demand the progressive society we want and deserve.

Yours Aye, Cam

by Shane - Socialist Party and Youth Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:44

Firstly lets clear something up. Connolly had no links to the IRA as "Observer" claims. Connolly was the leader of the Irish Citizen army. A group made up of around 250 working class members and trades union activists. The IRA at the time of 1916 hadn't been formed. The other movement involved was the middle class dominated Irish Volunteers and the Irish Republican Brotherhood. Further to that point the ICA didn't join into the IRA it disappeared and grew weak as it had no strong leadership - Connolly and Whyte were dead - Larkin was in Gaol in America. The social democrats and imperialists had taken over the party. O'Brien the social democrat and Johnston the Imperialist, who saw no problem with the British Empire and the Union.

Connolly would be twisting and turning in his grave if he knew the parties that were claiming to be in his descendency.

Firstly Labour - Since 1925 they sold out. The Party now is transformed into a movement of bureaucrats and careerists, who have thrown aside any ideology that even proports to change the system.

The party is ideologically bankrupt, looking over its shoulder at genuine socialists such as the Socialist Party, liberals such as the greens and republicans such as Sinn Feín.

Labour is willing to jump into bed with Fianna Fail. Dick Spring, one of the men responsible for the decline in Labour, done so. Ho Chi Quinn was going to do so, and Pat Rabbitte since assuming leadership has dogged the question.

Labour has seen its membership dwindle, as young people turn away from the party, its vote is decreasing and its long lost its former strongholds.

The last election, In doublin South west where I live, once a stronghold of Labour, Pat Rabbitte came last in the last general election. While Ho Chi Quinn struggled to keep his seat.

For any genuine socialist in Labour now is the time to leave and join a radical alternative who is not afraid to pose difficult questions or call for socialist change.

Now Sinn Féin - Privatisers in the North, "Socialists" in the south. In the North the party has waged a campaign of privatisation against workers and youth. In the south they pretend to be socialists and a "Radical Party."

This "Radical" Party is funded by Corporate Irish America and Right wing congressmen, such as Peter King. Gerry Adams its leader has cosyed up to Bill Clinton and George Bush.

The leadership refuses to rule out jumping into bed with Fianna Fail when the time comes. Martin Ferris Sinn Fein TD from Kerry exploited the medical card scheme fully knowing he was not entitled to it as a TD.

Barbra De Bruin's record as secretery for health in Northen Ireland is also poor. The facts speak for themselves as does Martin McGuinness' recored in education.

Sinn Fein during the 1913 lockout publicly supported the bosses and Martin Murphy's policy. Connolly was hated by the parties Capitalist and Right wing founder Arthur Griffith. Sinn Fein were also slightly imperialist calling for duel monarchy.

Any genuine Socialists in Sinn Fein should realise what their party gets up to and join a real radical alternative.

Now the Socialist Party/ Youth- It has its faults but by far it is the party that Connolly would join today. It has a base in the working class with real socialist policies. No other political party in Ireland has that.

It has a base among the Youth with a vibrant and active youth section that is seperate to the party and is run by young people many of whom aren't members of the SP. The Youth Section is strongly politically developed and active. Its only 3 years old and growing at a pace, quickly finding its feet.

The establishment parties of Labour and Sinn Féin will only betray the voice of the working class. History has shown this. Labour has alradey gone down this path. Would Sinn Fein in government be any different? No. They would exactly be the same.

by Stew Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:13

Labour Youth please spare us the sanctimonious lecture about the 1916 Rising being hijacked by Sinn Féin. This event being organised by Labour Youth is more to do with their new Stickie leaderships obsession with the rise of Sinn Féin than some new found patriotic zeal amongst young Labourites. They were never exercised enough during 30 years of conflict in the north to remember James Connolly and the founders of the IRA. Why now? Perhaps its more to do with the electoral challenge Sinn Féin poses and the fact that Rabbitte thinks he can manufacture an activist based party. SF in Dublin have distributed 90,000 newsletters, 10,000 leaflets, 5,000 posters and sold Easter lilies every weekend for the last 3 weeks to prepare for Easter Commemorations this weekend. That is not hijacking an event. No other party in this state bar RSF bothered to remember and celebrate the legacy of 1916. Spare us the lectures please. Organise your event and get on with it. Don't try and denigrate people who are genuinely working to remember Connolly and his comrades.

by Intransigent Sat Apr 19, 2003 00:29

Ask yourself where the level of working class consciousness was in 1916: Brits out or Socialist Utopia? And SF yay National Socialists!

by flyggbad Fri Apr 18, 2003 23:23

The Labour Party are NOT socialists.

They are a party of bureacrats careerists and university lecturers as well as the rural TD fan club crowd.

by OK - SP Fri Apr 18, 2003 22:51

I think that James Connolly would turn in his grave if he thought that he would be used by the creatures in the Labour Party to appear left wing.

The Labour Party do not represent socialism, they do not represent the interests of workers. They support Social partnership deals, they supported the Nice Treaty, Tax amnesties, bin charges, coalition government with bourgeois parties.

The Labour Party supprters on this website should realise that the formation of their party was not by or for the Union bureaucrats and careerist politicians that infest labour now. The Labour Parties across Europe were created through the struggles of the working class. They were established as political parties of the Workers Movement, their ojective was to be a workers' party against the bourgeois parties.

The task now for the labour movement is to re-build workers struggle, and to fight for a new mass workers party.

by Observer Fri Apr 18, 2003 22:45

Who will claim the right to hold their commemoration at the GPO seen as Labour and RSF will be arriving there at about the same time. Whislt I welcome the fact that Labour have suddenly woken up to find that their founder was in fact James Connolly the socialist republican and leader of the IRA on Easter Monday I think a bit of planning into the event would have helped. Enjoy the oration from Des Long hope he doesn't scare you too much with talk of taking the fight to Britain. Labour Youth might be reminded that the principles of physical force republicanism did not begin in the 1970s but the 1790s and their founding leader embraced that tradition and established and trained a highly disciplined and progressive armed force in the Irish Citizen Army which joined with the the Irish Volunteers, Cumann na mBán and Fianna Éireann to form the Irish Republican Army.

by Republican Fri Apr 18, 2003 22:29

Good to see that the youth of Labour have remembered the man who founded their party. 87 years later and the Labour Party decide it is time to commemorate James Connolly. As to the accusation that Sinn Féin has hijacked the commemoration I would like to point to our learned friend that when many in the 26 counties forgot the heroes of 1916 republicans held annual commemorations to remember the sacrifice and celebrate the legacy of Connolly and his comrades. We will do so again this year on Easter Sunday at 1.30pm at Liberty Hall with a march to the GPO and on to Glasnevin Cemetery. Perhaps Labour Youth would like to recall Connollys republican credentials and his maxim that the principles of nationalism and socialism are complimentary not antagonisitic.

The further accusation of being a sectarian organisation is laughable. During the conflict in the 6 counties revisionist historians were in the ascendancy. The state refused to commemorate the men and women of 1916. Labour were complicit in that. Remember Section 31. I find a bit hard to take that an organisation which has done nothing to commemorate James Connolly in 87 years suddenly condemning others who have as much a legitimate to remember their past. One often thinks that people like the idiot who posted up the original thread would like to see a situation where republicans were once again marginalised and censored.

by RED DAWN 1917 Fri Apr 18, 2003 21:45

By the way Socialist Youth have published a new page to celebrate the legacy and contribution of James Connolly to Socialism and marxism.

by RED DAWN 1917 - SY Fri Apr 18, 2003 21:41

I'm sorry butI have to say this. In principle I agree with the idea, we should commorate the ICA and Connolly.

But for Labour to do so would be hypocritical an an insult to the memory of James Connolly. As much as Sinn Fein claiming to be a progressive socialist party is also.

Everything that Labour stands for today is the absolute antithesis of what Connolly fought and died for.

Pat Rabbitte, Ho Chi Quinn, Dick Spring the list of sell outs goes on.

by spud Fri Apr 18, 2003 19:36

Great to see exmembers being effective in the resisence movement!The action last night was as inspiration to us all.
thanks Jenny for being the brave women you are.

by taylor Fri Apr 18, 2003 19:22

So socialist youth you do know what its like to be hijacked.
Will there be newspapers for sale ?