UNITED AGAINST RACISM, ISLAMAPHOBIA AND ANTI-SEMITISM

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 13:07

I could regurgitate thousands if not tens of thousands of old Amnesty International statements that are just as important as this one.

I've noticed that since you started using this site you haven't published one original article, just a whole raft of racist, self-pitying copy-and-pastes about the poor Zionists (boo hoo). This particulary copy-and-paste is a break from you usual tactics, portraying Muslims as victims rather than blood-thirsty animals. All the same, it is still outdated, unoriginal and, in my view, a waste of space on the newswire.

Are you incapable of original thought, Avi? Have you ever had an opinion that didn't originate on the pages of the Jerusalem Post or the Sun or the New York Times?

by Avi H. Fri Mar 28, 2003 13:24

Since when is anti-racism wasted space on this newswire? Especially in view of the degree of specifically racist abuse that is directed at me personally. In any case, please note that this statement is a general statement including more than one ethnic minority.

by Avi H. Fri Mar 28, 2003 13:26

The jeering tone of your comment is both insulting and grotesque. Further, I do not accept that I have characterised muslims in the way you describe.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 14:38

You have said that the Palestinians (the majority of whom are Muslim) are incapable of governing themselves.

You have said that all Arabs (the majority of whom are Muslims) want to kill Israelis.

PS. I don't give a flying fuck what you think of the tone of my comment. If you don't like it, find another website to spam with your pro-Zionist propaganda.

PPS: The date does matter. This is a newswire - the first three letters of that word should help you work out the kind of material that should be posted here. Something that was written by Amnesty International almost a year ago is not new and it is not news.

Just to prove my case, I'm going to post a few more comments that are unoriginal and not news. Do you consider these to be news?

Looking forward to your response...

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 14:39

Israel and the Occupied Territories: An ongoing human rights crisis....

There appears to be no end in sight to the human rights crisis which has been unfolding in the past two years in the context of the Palestinian uprising (known as the al-Aqsa intifada) against Israeli occupation.

Some 2,000 Palestinians have been killed, most of them unlawfully, by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), who routinely use F16 fighter jets, helicopter gunships and tanks to bomb and shell densely populated Palestinian residential areas. The victims included some 350 children and some 90 individuals killed in targeted state assassinations.

In the same period Palestinian armed groups have killed more than 700 Israelis, some 480 of them civilians, including some 90 children. The victims were killed in deliberate attacks, including frequent suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other places, which specifically targeted families and other civilians.

Thousands of other Palestinians and Israelis have been injured, many maimed for life.

Thousands of Palestinians, hundreds of them children, have been arbitrarily detained in mass arrests. Most have been released without charge and often without having been questioned. Ill-treatment of detainees has become once again widespread during arrest and interrogation and some have been tortured. Some 1,000 Palestinians are held in administrative detention without charge or trial, on the basis of "secret evidence", which neither they nor their lawyers are allowed to see or challenge in court. Most detainees cannot receive family visits because of the closures preventing movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. Dozens of Israelis have been imprisoned as prisoners of conscience for refusing to perform military service or to serve in the Occupied Territories.

Scores of Palestinians suspected of having assisted Israeli intelligence services in killing wanted Palestinians have been unlawfully killed by Palestinian armed groups. The Palestinian Authority (PA) has failed to investigate such cases and to bring the perpetrators to justice. The systematic bombings and destruction of PA security installations, including prisons, and administration buildings has undermined the PA's capability and its apparent unwillingness to take effective measures to stop and prevent attacks by armed Palestinian groups on Israeli civilians and to ensure respect for the rule of law.

Since the beginning of the intifada, the IDF has destroyed more than 3,000 homes and damaged thousands more, as well as large areas of agricultural land and other public and private properties, and water and electricity infrastructure in both urban and rural areas. As a result thousands of Palestinians have been made homeless, many of them children, and tens of thousands have lost their main or sole source of income.

Since the IDF retook control earlier this year of most areas under the jurisdiction of the PA, it has imposed comprehensive and prolonged closures and curfews on an unprecedented scale throughout the Occupied Territories. Most Palestinian towns and villages have been cut off from one another and from surrounding villages for most of this year, and prolonged curfews continue to be imposed on the major population centres and elsewhere. These sweeping measures of collective punishment affect millions of Palestinians, whose access to work, education and medical care has continued to be denied or severely restricted. This has resulted in the overall collapse of the Palestinian economy. Unemployment has spiralled and about half of the Palestinian population is now living under the poverty line

The restrictions on movements in the Occupied Territories are making it increasingly difficult for Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights and humanitarian NGOs to operate and to carry out their work of documenting and acting against human rights violations and bringing relief to the victims.

Concerns about the continuously worsening situation are regularly expressed by world leaders, the United Nations (UN), the European Community (EU), the Arab League and others. "Peace and security" are the recurring keywords of the various political initiatives which have been put forward - while human rights are rarely mentioned, if at all. AI has repeatedly called for human rights to be placed at the heart of any negotiation or peace talks. Yet, no concrete measures have been taken by the international community to ensure that the concerned parties in this conflict live up to their obligations and their stated commitments to human rights.

In this respect the international community has failed the Palestinian and Israeli victims, whose human rights have been neglected in the pursuit of a "peace and security" formula which, if achieved, cannot be durable unless based on respect for the fundamental human rights of all. As the situation continues to worsen the need for steps to be taken becomes more pressing. AI has repeatedly called for international human rights monitors to be sent to Israel and the Occupied Territories. The call has been echoed by Palestinian, Israeli and international NGOs and has been widely supported at the international level, including by the UN and EU, but the international community has failed to act in the face of Israel's rejection of the proposal. AI does not claim that human rights observers can bring the solution to all the problems in this complex situation. However, the presence of international monitors could contribute to saving Palestinian and Israeli lives. It is not too late to make amends for past failures.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 14:42

Israel/OT: Impunity for Killers of Palestinians...

"The sentence handed down to Nahum Korman sends out a powerful message - that Israelis can kill Palestinians with impunity," Amnesty International said today. The human rights organization was commenting on the decision of the Jerusalem District Court to sentence Nahum Korman, a 37-year-old Israeli citizen, to six months community service for the killing of an 11-year-old Palestinian child, Hilmi Shawasheh. He was also ordered to pay 70,000 shekels to the victim's family.

The punishment is in sharp contrast with the six and half year sentence given to Su'ad Hilmi Ghazal, a Palestinian from Sebastia village near Nablus who in December 1998 at the age of 15 and whilst suffering psychological problems, injured an Israeli settler by stabbing him. Immediately after her arrest, despite being a minor, she was held incommunicado without access to either a lawyer or her family for 27 days, for 17 of which she was held in solitary confinement. Since then, Su'ad Hilmi Ghazal, whose mental health deteriorated as a result of the ordeal, has been held for two years in the women's section of Neve Terze prison in Ramle.

"These two contrasting sentences reflect a deeply rooted culture of discrimination against Palestinians, which permeates the Israeli justice system,"Amnesty International said. "People have a right to be treated equally under the law, regardless of which community they come from, yet his clearly does not apply in Israel."

Both Nahum Korman and Su'ad Hilmi Ghazal were sentenced on 21 January 2001.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 14:44

Amnesty International urges Israel to stop attacks on Palestinian areas...

Amnesty International is gravely concerned at recent reports of random shelling and shootings by the Israeli Defence Force in Palestinian residential areas, among them Jenin, Ramallah, Tulkarm, Bethlehem and Beit Jala, which has left at least 25 Palestinians killed, among them several children, and scores of others injured, in retaliation for the killing of the Israeli Minister of Tourism, Rehavam Zeevi on 17 October.

The organization calls on the Israeli government to urgently abide by international human rights standards which state that law enforcement officers may not use firearms except in self-defence or defence of others against death or serious injury.

Amnesty International also calls on Palestinian groups not to fire at Israeli civilians and renews its call on the international community to take immediate steps to introduce international observers with a strong human rights component.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 14:48

...but I think you get the message. I have found hundreds of Amnesty documents criticising your beloved Israel. Maybe I should post them all on the newswire as "original" stories and knock all the real news off the wire.

Or maybe I'll show a little respect for the other users of this site and not post spam when there are actually important things happening in the world that are not getting the coverage they deserve in the mainstream media.

Y'know, something tells me this was why indymedia was set up in the first place. Would you agree, Avi?

by Avi H. Fri Mar 28, 2003 15:14

Just because you don't like my postings, that doesn't make them spam. Who do you think you are to dictate who should or shouldn't post things? You don't own this site. No-one is forcing you to read my postings, still less comment on them. If you don't like them, don't read them.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 15:21

...because you share his remarkable ability to avoid every single point that I made. Your article was outdated and was not news, just like almost everything you post here.

If you can't take the criticism, then please go elsewhere. If you want to continue posting on this site, then you can expect people who are capable of independent thought to refute your arguments and criticise you right-wing views.

You deliberately chose to target this left-wing site with your right-wing propaganda. What did you expect? Did you think that all of us pinko lefties would see the error of our ways and bow to the altar of extreme-right Zionism?

by Avi H. Fri Mar 28, 2003 15:50

Your long postings are totally irrelevant to this thread.

I repeat, if you don't like my postings, don't read them, but don't arrogate to yourself the right to dictate whether I should post or not. However, in any case, I fail to see how an anti-racism posting that quotes AI can be construed as right-wing propaganda. Moreover, such a posting is certainly news to all the many contributors who have thrown racist abuse at me.

by MG Fri Mar 28, 2003 15:55

You posted an entire, outdated AI press release, not "anti-racist quotes". And I never said you couldn't post here. I merely asked you to come up with something original, which have you have failed to do in the weeks since you started posting to this site.

And criticising Zionism is not racism. The policies of Zionism are themselves fundamentally racist and, to be honest, I find it a bit rich that someone who supports those policies (you) is posting articles about racism.

PS: I have to cut this debate short, as I'm going home now and won't be able to respond to your comments. Sorry...

by Avi H. Fri Mar 28, 2003 16:08

The argument that Zionism is racism has been rejected by the UN. Zionism is basically the self-determination of the Jewish people. It simply refers to the right of the Jewish people to have a national homeland in Israel, their own country, although it does not make any statement about the borders of the country.

by Gaillimhed Fri Mar 28, 2003 17:50

jesus i gotta hand it to you Avi, your a glutton for punishment. I detest your zionist views but i must say i kinda admire your relentlessness. Of course all you achieve is to turn people's stomachs with your sickening love of the Zionist genocide. But anyway, you get a lot of stick from the rest of the indy heads, totally deserved, but i for one would hate to see you go, because as long as you keep posting you reinforce everyones revulsion of israels crimes and you keep the palestinian question on the table. Well done Avi. Three cheers for Avi, for hes a jolly good fellow, for hes a jolly good fellow .....

by Yossela slovo Fri Mar 28, 2003 23:26

Not all jews are zionists, and some zionists aren't even jews. Zionists are golden boy ultra capitalist pseudo aryan stormtroopers. Since Bush/blair's escapades in Afghanistan and Iraq there has been a sharp rise in racist attacks and neo nazi activity. The double edged sword of Bush/Blair trespassing in and transgressing the borders of foreign countries occurs as simultaneously Bush/blair preach about the dangers of foreigners trepassing and transgressing our borders. Hence the anti asylum seeker/refugee vitriol, whist simultaneously it is ok for Bush/blair to invade/occupy mr johnny foreigners countries. Then we have also the insidious misleading aryan scaremongering about Jews being responsible for everything from the situation in palestine to the war in Iraq. The situation in Palestine, occured as a direct result of nazi Prescott Bush financing Adolf's anti semitic policies. Because of the likes of Prescott Bush, and the America first commitees, blocking holocaust survivors emigration to the US and expelling holocaust survivors from europe, These nazis effectively banished world Jewry to palestine, where we could be managed and neutralised with ease. During this time Palestine was under Brit occupation, with palestinians living under occupied rule. Initially Jews fought alongside their good palestinian neighbours against the british occupiers. But then some clever binky old boy brit officer nazi had the bright idea of encouraging palestinians to attack their jewish negihbours and comrade in arms. This was done by spreading vicious anti semitic rumours amongst the palestinians. As a result of this Jews had to fight both Brit occupiers and their arab neighbours. Then into this picture stepped the equally anti semitic yanks. Who encouraged Jews to adopt the inhumane, unjust, supremist segregationist social policies of nazi germany. And so and so on until we have the unjust, inhumane and oppressive right wing regieme that is Israel today. This is nothing out of the ordinary, as Israel's arab neighbour regiems are just as unjust, inhumane and oppressive to their arab citizens. What is disgraceful and disgusting about this situation, is that Israel could have been utopia for both Jews and palestinians, the promised land, but is now just an insult to the memory of holocaust survivors. To think we survived the holocaust to watch those that call themselves Jews treat their palestinian neighbours the same way that nazi Germany treated Jews. The degradation, hardship and oppression faced by our palestinian neighbours is disgusting to watch. It is this appaling treatment of Palestinians that causes them to hit back, lash out at Israelie Jews so harshly. Enough about the situation in Israel and the middle east. I pledge no allegiance to any state/country, the world is my country, and the people of the world my brothers/sisters. I have no allegiance except to my fellow human beings, and the torah. World jewry needs to stand its ground amongst every nation, we will not be forced out of the world again. We will not be banished and herded into our ghettoes again. Our place is in the world in every country, beside our fellow human beings, be they arab, muslim, christian, black, chinese or whatever. Its time the world learnt to distinguish between world Jewry and Israeli zionists.

by Yossela slovo Fri Mar 28, 2003 23:45

I have to say not all Israelie jews are backward gung ho rednecks hellbent on living out their prejudices against their palestinian neighbours, some are refuseniks, and just want equal rights for their palestinian neighbours and to live in peace and equality with their palestinian neighbours, respecting palestinian peoples culture and religious diversity.

by kokomero Sat Mar 29, 2003 08:19

It is heartening to see your posts on this site. Please post more often. It is interesting to hear a reasonable and informed voice from Israel.

Shalom.