Open Letter to GR/SWP regarding the call for Thursday's protest

by the Phantom Linker - no cut and pasting if you please!! Wed May 08, 2002 05:32

Joe Carolan speaks, at a press conference, ___on behalf of RTS___ in the Irish Times (Joe, why do you do this? You KNOW that you had nothing to do with the RTS organising):

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2002/0508/3663532622HM5PROTESTERS.html

Political parties reaction including GR:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2002/0508/130645763HM5REACT.html

Some witness statements:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2002/0508/1747813272HM5STREETS.html

Some nutcase writes a letter giving out about RTS heads as social welfare scroungers (didnt he realise it was a bank holiday and we all had the day off??)

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/letters/2002/0508/index.html#1017357786862

The Indo lead article:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=747103&issue_id=7357

Further actions likely via DPP:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=747106&issue_id=7357

Garda Regulations:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=747111&issue_id=7357

Witness statements:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=746979&issue_id=7357

Very good article by lawyer Ivana Bacik

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=746985&issue_id=7357

Calls for a Garda Ombudsman

And finally, just to top it all off, a picture of four GR/SWP people at a press conference.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/pictures.php3?ca=9&pi=223206&issue_id=7357

Joe looking very serious in that one alright. But then again, it was a street party after all! You'd better get all serious and political on our asses. GR couldnt possibly have anyone organising anything in Dublin without them picking up a few new recruits! (and then, sadly, spitting them out a few months later..)

by Brian Cahill Wed May 08, 2002 05:47 nigel_irritable at yahoo dot com

I am quite aware that the SWP's ability to jump on any bandwagon in search of the next papersale can irritate, but I think you are being a little harsh here.

The SWP/GR are entitled to call a protest over police brutality, regardless of the fact that RTS wasn't "their" show. They would be entitled to call one even if the police brutality had been against an entirely apolitical event or against an event they opposed. This shouldn't be seen as a territorial issue.

They are also entitled to bring any banners or slogans or whatever that they wish to a demonstration which they call.

The broader issue of trying to stop organisations from bringing placards or leafleting or selling literature at any political event (and RTS is certainly political) is a litte more complex, although I would still be opposed. The most common context in which such a ban is imposed is when liberal groups want to make sure that nobody else can get across a more radical message. Some of the "wear black, silent, no-placards" vigils organised by liberal sections of the anti-war movement in Britain are good examples.

If the SWP or the WSM or the SP or whoever want to leaflet a street party, that's their business. Nobody is forcing anybody else to take their leaflets. Likewise, nobody is forcing anybody else to go on the GR/SWP protest.

On the other hand, it would be pretty poor manners on the part of the SWP if they didn't at least contact RTS first. It would be even worse than that if they attempt to monopolise the issue at the protest.

by Myles Wed May 08, 2002 07:59

Let us know what they reply.
Sickening...SWP/GR are just sickening.
I can't fail thinking: they must know that they
are doing an immense amount of damage
with their behaviour, they can't be so
stupid that they don't know...so what's their
"real" agenda? on whose payroll are their
ringleaders? who is behind the SWP?

by Ian - misc (including GR) Wed May 08, 2002 08:37 ian at theplateau dot com

Hi All,

I suppose I understand any resentment that GR/ SWP is trying to hijack this, but in fairness, do you remember the Burlington?

The demo was savagely attacked by the guards.I watched the guards mercilessly swing battons And virtually the only attention the papers paid to it was to list the names of those arrested, stating (wrongly) that the were almost all unemployed, the issues (of privatisation of public services) were completely lost.

GR should perhaps be more clear that it is not linked to RTS, but honestly, I think its valid to mobilise now that this issue of police violence is so transparant (and indymedia has really shone here!).

But there's a bigger issue to on which to mobilise here. I was recently at a debate on racism in Ireland, and again and again the same story: a unaccountable police force that at best ignore, and at worst beat to a bloody pulp, a vulnerable group of people.

To this, representatives of the Greens and Labour repeatedly kept calling for external accountability for the Guards, in the form of an external ombudsman.

Ok, so this is too reformist to some, but with the violence of the police against the vulnerable so blatantly demonstrated, I say we have to the opportunity to shake middle class complaciencies about the guards. (The more vulnerable of course already know about this).

This time the vulnerable happened to include enough white middle class kids - albiet "not the kind that you'de want in your fron room" (to quote someone on RTE yesterday) - and in broad daylight in front of cameras, so suddenly the media cares.

As they did in the context of immigrants and asylum seekers, the Greens and Labour are calling for external accountability for the guards. With "Law and Order" such a big issue in the current election, surely this is the time to press the issue, and to unite with other groups calling for this.

My absolute solidarity to all those hurt - we need to fight for justice for all of them. But I think we should see this as part of a greater fight for civil society, and fight for guarda accountability for far more vulnerable groups.

Even just now on the radio:

"Pressure for an independant police ombudsman is increasing" reports todays Independant.

"Experience suggests that the Guarda investigation [will be unsecessful in bringing out the truth]" - today's examiner.

Bertie has been criticised for his reaction.

An RTE photographer describes the Guards physically shaking her to prevent her from filming guardai violence, threaten to seize her camera "under the public order act", another having to be physicaly restrainted from attacking her.

Schepticism is expressed about the ability of the Guarda to investigate themselves meaningfully.

What are the odds that we will ever have such transperancy in Guardai violence again?

Already there political repercussions of this are being felt. And I think its great the this may make protesting safer for white middle class protestors like me. But I think its vastly more important to people far more vulnerable than myself.

If I wasn't stuck at work on thursday I would have a sign (a big one):

"Bertie: your guards are unaccountable"

Ok, hopelessly reformist, but there will be camers there, and we need to get a message out that people will take in.

And just a thought, but if anyone else is being interviewed, why not slip in a sound bite about how "this is the kind of violence some minorities recieve from the Guardai all the time".

Solidarity,
Ian

by Joe Sheehan Wed May 08, 2002 09:38 jsheehan at subdimension dot com

Just a note of correction in the photo neither Barry or Amanda are members of SWP or GR.

by Gen Wed May 08, 2002 10:24

RE; path in exile

I do understand frustration at the opportunist and headwreckin tactics of the SWP - (not going to rant)...But your disgust at anything 'political' is mad, do you think that the guards battering the head off people engaged in peaceful protest against globalisation is not 'political'.
It's fair enough to get dressed up for the day and and have a carnival but if you're not willing to back it up by trying to build an alternative to capitalism whats the point??

If the anti cap movement in Ireland and internationally is to pose anysort of a serious threat - then it must be organised, I know 'gardening in O'connell st' is a pretty nerve wrecking prospect for the ruling class but building a political alternative, socialism, is the biggest threat to capitalism there is.

by k Moran - SWSS Wed May 08, 2002 10:59 219 N.C.R Cabra D7

This is an excellent example of how sectarianism can immobalise movements, the idea that a protest against police brutality should be called off because the groups calling for it don't have permission! Also that a protest should be ignored because of the groups on it (despite the fact that SWP or GR want to change the world like any one else)is just giving in to the right. The cops et al would love if we on the left squabbled amongst ourselves and did nothing. Who does it benefit if we don't protest? we all know the answer to that.As a message against sectarianism: think about how it limits us in real terms (i.e whether or not we have an urgent protest) and keep predjuices to discussion not preventing action you would agree with any way.

by Myles Wed May 08, 2002 11:17

This was answered before.
There is no sectarianism because there is no 'in'-fight. Most people who write on this newswire don't feel they are on the same side as the SWP.
Do you scream 'sectarianism' when people attack
FF or FG? No.

by Brian Cahill Wed May 08, 2002 11:22

I am beginning to think that it might be a good idea for somebody in the SWP to learn the definition of sectarianism and let in his or her fellow part members on the secret.

Sectarianism is putting the interests of an organisation above the interests of the movement.

It's as simple as that. Criticising another organisation is not sectarianism. Not liking another organisation is not sectarianism.

Putting the interests of your organisation before the interests of the movement is a perfect description of the normal behaviour of the SWP. How do you build a movement? Sell the paper and recruit!

Some of the people who bitch about the SWP a lot are boring and sometimes they are even destructive. But they aren't sectarian.

In fact the reason why the SWP has earned such hostility is mostly its own real sectarianism. Most left activists have been in at least one campaign which has been raided by the SWP for recruits or in another campaign which suddenly finds an identical rival campaign launched under the control of the SWP. For the SWP the actual campaigns don't matter, just the organisational gains.

And of course most SWPers have their hearts in the right place. Most join for exactly the same reasons they might have joined the Socialist Party or even the WSM - a desire to make the world a better place. So they spend a year in the SWP, get disillusioned and drift away from politics.

by blah - blah Wed May 08, 2002 11:38

OK just a couple of tings:

I have no problem with any organisation calling a protest which isnt their 'show', but as long as they consult the people who originally put the time and effort into putting it together, and/or the people who were affected (e.g. in the case of the murdered Chinese student I presume they consulted first with the family before staging a protest outside the GPO?); and they dont hijack it for their own recruiting ends. I'd love to think that GR/SWP would show up outside Pearse St. Garda with no newspaper sellers-hasslers and/or recruitment/'send me more info' forms but on past experience what can you expect? Do you welcome a puppy into your gaf that isnt house-trained?

The Burlington was primarily a GR/SWP event and they were perfectly entitled to say whatever they wanted afterwards and speak on behalf of the majority of the people who were arrested. They organised it and it was their motivation and ideology against PPP's.

'Gen', contrary to your opinion, a lot of people dont believe in socialism as a viable alternative (as a 'top down' power structure ideology it is TOTALLY at odds with the RTS ethic).

What I laughed at most was Joe Carolan giving the spiel (for the Irish Times) about RTS taking over the street for a day and being non-hierarchical etc. Considering GR/SWP are the total opposite of this and all.

Lastly. Its just sad that GR/SWP cant just for ONCE let people organise something autonomously in the city and not try to gain something from it for their own ends. FOR THEIR OWN ENDS. I know I'll be labelled a sectarian idiot for this, but what do you expect? If Fianna Fail called an anti racist protest after the Chinese student was murdered what would people say? If Fine Gael called for a protest against Big Business what would people say? They're doing it for political advancement. They are a political organisation supporting a cause so they can give themselves a bigger self-promotion when the spotlight is turned. Now GR/SWP are calling a protest regarding an RTS action, which they have never endorsed, and which their political beliefs are at odds with. I dont care if they are left wing, right wing, no wing, chicken wing. Would they ever just FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF and for gods sake let some decent, independent, autonomous, intelligent anti-capitalist anti-authoritarian movement flourish in the city. Something that isnt just another bullshit machine or front.

I love Dublin for what it is, and there's so much life there... and stuff like Car Free Day, RTS, CM etc shows that people can organise things themselves that are fun and have a message.. yet dont scream some dumb, tired old cliches in peoples faces. I hate what the SWP/GR do, yes I hate it and I think that if they had their placards and megaphones at this protest then people would not be as interested or there would not be as much of an outcry now. If there was, people would just have said 'oh its those fucking nutballs again'.

by Ian - misc (inc. GR) Wed May 08, 2002 12:06 ian at theplateau dot com

Perhaps a demo on Pierce St isn't the best way to proceed. But then what is?

To sit back and do nothing? Sure, the media is in a frenzy, the evidence is damning, and we probably could sit back and some form of justice would be done for the people hurt on monday.

But the issue is larger! We need to make the point that the problem is systemic. Its not about rallying for socialism - we have a chance to push meaningfully for more accountability in the police not just for ourselves, but for, say, asylum seekers who have no recourse to indymedia footage with the Guardai (and who can't come to protests because they're too vulnerable).

"Crime continues to dominate election" (aprox.) was a headline in todays Times - and a significant amount of this was devoted to the issue of guardai accountability as a result of monday's events. We need to sustain this debate.

Honestly, if anyone has a better idea that Thursday's protest PLEASE speak. (Please don't say lets do nothing.)

If RTS needs to remain non political, I perfectly respect that. But I personally need to respond politically, and GR is the only group that seem to be doing anything (althogh I accept many of the above criticisms).

Suggestions (completely off the top of my head, and I know is easier to talk than to actually do anything, but here it is):

-keep slogans and sound bites about Guardai accountability in the media as much as possible. (Thursday's protest may be able to do this, although please God it will be peaceful).

-If the internal investigation looks like a white wash, then maybe RTS (or whoever) could pick up on this image, trying to keep the issue in the news. Imagine the street in front of Pierce St stating chalked completely white, with maybe some body outlines left black and a big sign saying "holes in the whitewash" - or some such image that would be interesting to the press.

- Could maybe indymedia undertake compile a report about other groups that experience problems with lack of guardai accountability (and hence brutaily, negelect etc, (hmmm, maybe I'll drop a note to Residence against Racism, suggeseting they post an article here, I'm sure they have lots to say about it.)

- If mondays events remain interesting to the media, then perhaps at a key time indymedia (or whoever) could call a press conference trying to emphasise the point that its not a single event we're talking about, but something more systematic. Probably Amnesty would be better. Actually I think they already have some research completed on guardai responsiveness to imigrants.

Solidarity
Ian

by green Wed May 08, 2002 15:52

WE WANT ANOTHER PARTY!

by Keith Wed May 08, 2002 19:21

The choice isn't between doing nothing or going to rally outside Pearse St. on Thursday. Probably the best course of action is to SUE the gardaí for an illegal attack. Not everyone going to the same solicitor, but everyone presenting a unique case to the criminal justice sytstem. Let's deal with this through the law courts.

And if you are outside Pearse St on Thursday, please watch out for gardai dressed up as civilians turning agressor to their colleagues in uniform. And they will try. Take alot of photos and bring your video camera. The eyes of the world will be watching.

Peace

by jack Wed May 08, 2002 19:25 jacksonflame at gohip dot com

Ian, it's Pearse St. and Gardai. Now, why should you need to be told that..?