School Students Strike in Bertie Ahern's old School

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 15:39

THis was not organised by YAW.

by Student - Youth Against War Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:00

Who exactly do you think organised the strike? Did it just happen spontaneously? Or maybe a couple of SWPers got the bus down from Belfast and organised it by setting up a website?

A number of YAW members attend the school and they argued for the strike and built for it. Of course the vast majority of the students who took part were not involved in any anti-war group as you would expect. Similarly most of the people who took part in the march organised by IAWM/PANA/NGO Peace Alliance on Feb 15 were not members of any of those organisations.

by Daithi - 1 of IMC Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:06

Give it a rest. All the articles on school walkouts end up with slagging matches between Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. Something makes me think it's the same handful of people rehashing the same arguments over and over again, but maybe I'm being too cynical. In any case - if you've said it before, the world is not going to stop turning if you don't say it again.

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:08

Yeah it happened spontaneously. Do you think you control the school? The YAW lot were not decisive in the action.

You ghouls think you rule the world.

by Joe Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:12

Whats more I can't even remember which is the SWP run and which is the SP run 'school' organisation.

Here is an obvious question. Given that you are both part of the IAWM why don't you combine both organisations? What is the reason for two seperate ones (apart from the recruitment of 'youth' into your party).

If I was in school the thing I'd take from all this petty squabbling is the need for a real school students organisation that was not simply 'owned' by one or the other party. Now there's an idea!

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:40

Youth Against War is a broad organisation.

It was set up by Socialist Youth but the majority of people who are involved in it are not members of any political party. It is affiliated to the Irish Anti-War Movement and anyone can get involved in it.

Youth Against War exists all over the island, organised in more than 40 schools from Cork to Derry.

You would have to ask the SWP why they later set up School Students Against War or Schools Against War. That isn't meant as an attack, I just mean that I can't answer for them.

As far as I am aware, Schools Against War now exists only in the North. Certainly I haven't heard anything about it in the South for a long time and their website only deals with the North.

So the situation is:

In the South, there is one organisation, Youth Against War.

In the North, there are two organisations, Youth Against War and Schools Against War. YAW operates across the North while Schools Against War is mostly confined to Belfast and has its main base at Methody.

The argument above was triggered by a report from a member of Youth Against War on a strike which took place at a school which has an organised Youth Against War group in it. Every report on any of the many events organised by Youth Against War has seen a variety of attacks on them. In earlier incidents the attacks were fairly clearly from anonymous members of the SWP. In this case I'm not sure who the anonymous attacker is.

Whoever it is, I don't think that this kind of muck-throwing helps anybody in the anti-war movement. The various strikes which YAW have organised have been some of the most vibrant and significant events of the movement here so far. I would encourage those who want to abuse them to try doing something as constructive themselves.

by Brian Cahill Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:45

Cue more attacks...

by Joe Wed Mar 12, 2003 16:52

Brian thanks for explaining the origins of the two groups but this does not answer the questions asked. ie
"Given that you are both part of the IAWM why don't you combine both organisations? What is the reason for two seperate ones?"

by Durutti Column Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:14

Its nothing more than a SP front. Do you think we are all as dumb as your average SY member?

by Kidser - no fucking organisation Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:18

I am talking for myself and no one else but I know what happened at my school. Your fucking mates were not the main thing that got us out.

Now fuck off back to your cloud Mr Cahill.

by Stephen Rigney Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:26

Kidser,

Get your facts right, this walkout was organised by YAW seeing as I organised the damn thing and I am member of YAW. If you're supposedly in Aidans, send me an e-mail at [email protected] and we'll see if you attend Aidans.

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:30

Firstly you should take into account that I'm not in a position to answer on behalf of two organisations which I'm not a member of. But here's my take:

In the South there is nothing to combine. Youth Against War plus nothing equals Youth Against War. There is only one group in existence.

In the North the situation is a bit messier.

Youth Against War was already in existence when the SWP decided to launch Schools Against War for reasons best known to themselves. When they held their first public activity, YAW attended and argued for them to just join YAW. That suggestion was rejected.

Since then Youth Against War has established itself very firmly in schools across the North, primarily by organising the huge wave of student strikes on March 5. By contrast, the two main schools in Belfast where SAW is organised didn't come out on strike and SAW's involvement in the strikes was effectively limited to endorsing them on its website.

At this stage the problem of having two competing groups really only effects Belfast. On the ground it isn't a huge problem. It doesn't really matter all that much which banner a group in any given Belfast school is organised under. Let a thousand flowers bloom etc.

It only becomes a real issue in cyberspace where some SWP members seem to be slightly put out by the huge success of Youth Against War. I should emphasise that "some", as most SWP members are just as happy as everybody else that an effective anti-war movement is being built amongst school students and don't feel the need to post anonymous slanders.

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:30

You couldnt get your own grannie to walk out. Born of Zapata guns! Gimme a break! DEnnis the Menace waterpistol more like it.

by Stephen Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:33

It has been discussed and we decided that we would be happy to have co-operation between the 2 groups. YAW was establish first and has a much wider base than SSAW though. We have never seen any point in establishing 2 anti-war youth groups so you'd have to ask a member from SWP about that.

by Anto Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:36

Yer Da shoots blanks. You were born of the milkmans guns

by Stephen Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:40

Stop trying to stir shit and prove that you go to Aidans. If if wasn't YAW who organised the walkout, how come only the parents of YAW members were called?

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:41

Thats what supporting ASTI gets ya, ya fucking toadie!

by Stephen Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:41

This is typical of the assholes on this site. Really, get a life and find something else to do instead of just insulting people.

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:46

Why are the ASTI such a bunch of pricks and why do you support them?

by Peoples front of judea Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:52

No slanders just facts.

FACT :YAW called the school strikes fair play to them but they did not organise most of them.
FACT:A previous SY post called the schoolstudents invisible in west belfast apart from st marys. So the 150 who marched up to the falls with some of their teachers, the 100 from st donomics, the lock in at Menscoil, Those in de la salle and st genivies or even Rathmore etc did not happen? They did but because the wHere not 'organised' by YAW they were therefore called invisible. Isn't interesting that it was SSAW that spoke from the platform on the feb15 th mass rally in belfast representing the students in N'Ireland.
YAW firmly established in schools across the North hmmm
'Organised' the HUGE wave of stikes hmmm
Those 'YAW' AHEM came to argue for SSAW too join them.
'Limited to endorsing the strikes on their website' {those damned invisible schoolstudents again} I have a bit of spare time so awaiting replies for a bit of fun

by Shocked! - No organisation at the mo Wed Mar 12, 2003 17:56

You start by insulting students who organised a walk-out and had their parents called by their school and you follow that by calling people "fucking toadies" for supporting trade unionists in a justified pay claim. You aren't likely to be Mr Popularity around here if you keep this up, Kidser.

by Stephen Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:02

Kidser also claimed to attend St Aidans but isn't too quick in proving this claim. Somebody trying to stir shit?

by Brian Cahill Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:05

If SAW was responsible for getting 250 school students out in West Belfast then I am glad to stand corrected.

If true, that makes one walkout of 250 between two schools and a website endorsement. It's more impressive than just a website anyway.

by fk - Youth Against War Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:12

"YAW called the school strikes fair play to them but they did not organise most of them"

- Who did up all the posters and leaflets and distributed them then? The protest fairies?! No it was YAW.

- Who organised banners placards and megaphones etc for the schools in Swords and St Aidans? It was YAW.

- Who organised the rallies in the north? It was YAW.

- Who have leafleted and contacted scores of schools up and down the country in order to build for the walkout on Friday? It was YAW.

I do aknowledge that many of the schools walked out nearly spontaniously in the North as will be the case this Friday in the South but this is due largely to the media coverage of the previous YAW organised walkouts and the postering and leafleting which has been done by YAW.

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:19

Why support ASTI?

They wont give rights to students. They seize mobiles. They fuck you around.

If lecturer treated third level students like this would your members in colleges support them.

by ipsiphi Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:42

Thanks to all who took part in a local strike action.
:-)

by fk - sp Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:42

The fact is that teachers are workers who were taking on the government in a justified pay claim. If they were to win they would have given massive confidence to other public sector workers who were also seeking pay claims. That is why we supported them.

The fact that ASTI members take your mobile and generally give you hassle in schools is of no relevence. All it show is that you are probably a spoilt brat.

by Kidser Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:49

So you dont think school students should have mobiles? What else do you great revolutionaries stand for?

I am talking about hypocrits. ASTI hassle students about mobiles, long hair, face studs, eae rings and on and on.

In other schools ASTI wont let the girls wear trousers.

Do you Mr redflag believe thats right? If those rules were brought in colleges would your Socalist youth support the lecturers?

Should scholl students have rihgts or are the Sicalist Youth only in support of teachers no matter how they fuck us about.

by Brian Cahill - SP Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:56

Kidser may be behaving like a "spoilt brat" here, but he/she does raise an issue which deserves a bit of thought.

I agree with fk that the ASTI deserved full support in their pay claim as do any other workers looking for a decent wage.

However, the issue of rights for people of school student age doesn't just disappear because we support their teacher's pay claim. In a lot of countries school students have their own student unions which give them a bit more muscle. I know that there is a joke school students union in nominal existence already but I'm talking about a more serious operation.

Organisation around one issue - through groups like Youth Against War - is an important start. After the war it might be worth thinking about more general organisation. As I understand it the national school students union in Spain developed out of the campaign against the first Gulf War.

There's no reason why something similar couldn't happen here either through transforming the existing sham of a union or by creating something from scratch.

by red Wed Mar 12, 2003 18:56

Teachers are just doing their job, it is part of the school rules that you don't disrupt classes with your mobile and that you comply with the school uniform regulations. You might disagree with those rules as I do on the most part. But you must recognise that teachers are simply doing their job when implementing those rules. The ASTI are not responsible for those rules.

Now grow up and stop analysing everything as an individual.

by Jonno - SY Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:02

I think "red" hits the nail on the head there.

People who are still in school should have a lot more rights but it isn't the ASTI's fault that they don't.

Socialist Youth wants a lot more rights for young people - ranging from things like the right to vote to the right to wear whatever the hell you like. But that has nothing to do with whether or not you think teachers deserve decent pay.

The way to get more rights for young people is to organise to get them - not to whine about teachers getting a living wage.

by Durutti Column Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:02

In the interests of a rational discussion could we have the actual SY position on School Students rights?

I find Reds contribution disturbing and I hope it does not reflect SY policy.

The idea that its ok for a school to make young women wear skirts! Only following orders...

by Jonno - SY Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:08

Every contribution from members of SY on this thread have been variation on the same theme.

School students deserve way more rights, but that doesn't mean opposing teachers getting a decent wage. Simple as that.

Nobody thinks that its OK for schools to make girls wear skirts or boys cut their hair or any other such shit. We hardly would as most SY members are school students. The way to get more rights is to organise ourselves not just give out about teachers getting a living wage.

by Durutti Column Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:10

As socialists you should look for and expect support from teachers for your rights. You should demand that the teachers unions not apply discriminatory rules.

Its not good enough to say that the teachers are just following orders.

by AL Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:11

only ipsiphi (oh-as-if) has said well done to those kids for their actions and for continuing the support of the world-wide movement supporting no war. Well done to all the folks that have done this, as to all the people who continue to do what they can to keep the momentum going.

....conversations about mobiles? get a life... and to all those (mostly) fools above, put your efforts where they can be most useful instead of slapping each others wrists...

by Jonno - SY Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:17

I agree with you about discriminatory rules and that teachers and their unions should be approached about them Durutti and I doubt if you would find a single member of SY who doesn't.

The only point I am making is that whatever you think about school rules, teachers deserve a living wage. Do you agree?

by Durutti Column Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:18

Agree.

by Brian Cahill - SP Wed Mar 12, 2003 19:23

My God! An argument on Indymedia which ended with everyone agreeing! You two must be new here.

To echo the posters above, well done to Stephen and the other 300 plus school students who went out on strike.

by Paul Kinsella - Past pupil of St Aidan's, Whitehall (1983-1988) Wed Mar 12, 2003 22:00 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087-9748511

As a past pupil of St Aidan's, Whitehall myself from 1983-1988 I congratulate the 300 students who held the walkout against the war yesterday. As someone who lives locally and who knows many of the heads who took part in yesterday's walk-out, I can say with certainty that Youth Against War did organise yesterday's demo and provided many of the placards, but that doesn't mean that all of the students in Aidan's are members of Youth Against War, just like it doesn't mean that the 100,000 plus pepople who marched in Dublin on the 15th February are all members of the Irish Anti War Movement, the Peace And Neutrality Alliance or the NGO Peace Alliance. Again fair play to you all and make this Friday even better and this will build for a mass stoppage on "Day X" (The day war against Iraq'officially' starts).

by bertie ahern - fianna fail Thu Mar 13, 2003 00:40

Fianna Fail press release(?):

ah, I'd eh just like to say, eh, well done to all de lads from me, eh old school. youse are a real credit to dis country, and i assure you dat, eh yer protests are eh giving me eh great encouragement in my, eh foriegn policy of eh fence sitting. i know youse only protest cos ye eh agree with our position on the, eh war.
if youse ever wanna pop into eh fagans for a fizzy orange its my eh shout lads.

by hunter Thu Mar 13, 2003 00:43

well done to all involved! good to see the youth of today isn't as apathetic as I was in school. nice one! hope the friday walkouts go well.

i don't think the spin docktors got to that FF press release!

by Gaillimhed Thu Mar 13, 2003 13:38

Hey Kidser, your rights are there for the taking, get organised and demand the right to be allowed play with your mobile in class all day and wear a nail through your face, if thats what you want go get it baby.

by Brian Cahill Thu Mar 13, 2003 17:02

On March 5th around 10,000 Irish school students took part in a wave of strikes against the war.

The walkouts were called and organised by Youth Against War. They were one of biggest achievements of the anti-war movement in Ireland to date.

Youth Against War is a broad organisation made up of school student activists who oppose the war. It is organised in more than 40 schools around the country. It was launched by Socialist Youth, the Irish equivalent of ISR.

Sadly the SWP are up to their usual tricks. Instead of allowing their couple of school student members to join YAW they established a wholly owned front called "School Students Against War" in a crass attempt to cut across YAW.

The SWP have used this name to spread lies about Youth Against War, claiming to school students that YAW was only for socialists while SSAW is a "broad" organisation. So broad that it consists of the SWP and nobody else. Despite their best efforts YAW has grown into a large and vibrant organisation capable of bringing 10,000 school students on strike. SSAW, by contrast remains little more than a name which the SWP sometimes operate under.

Since the strikes the SWP have been busy trying to claim credit for them on Irish Indymedia. First they claimed that their front was the organisation behind the walkouts. They they reduced that claim to arguing that they were co-organisers. Then they finally admitted that in fact their couple of school student members hadn't even taken part in the strike, let alone organised it. Poor show.

by To visit Brian Thu Mar 13, 2003 18:09

'SSAW consists of swp and no-one else'. Either The swp must have huge respect then if they were choosen to speak to represent the students of N.Ireland at the Belfast FEb 15th or maybe they might just represent a little bit more than the swp. Methinks the broad coalition may know a little bit better.{listen to hadden again methinks} Your posting is becoming a bit ranting and wild {under pressure perchance} Talking of wild {estimates this time}

The 10,ooo on strike - that is as factual as the 100,000 you claimed walked outlast year when the anti secterianism rallies happened despite the fact the ICTU, all the centre left the left, far left, churches, Jesus, and whoever else all agreed at most 30,ooo. SP multiply by 3 and a bit and then add a bit more if they state they 'organised' it, inluding meetings. Thats the way it is done up here.

Just to go back on A prevoius posting that of the 'invisible schoolstudent' walkouts in W/Belfast. First SY said that only St marys went out, then you 'stood corrected' and agreed that another 250 went out from two other schools still failing to acknowledge the four other 'invisible'schools in W/Belfast. Poor Show Brian. Alass that is but revisionism.--- MYGODS I HATE,

Those damn SWP for organising those feeder marches from Belfasts working class communities for the upcoming March 22nd Demo
.
Those damn SWP for having respect within their unions and winning active support from their union branches for walkouts and rally calls for the near future. Nipsa for example .{Isn't that were you have six members on the EXC. as you stated recently} Has any of those members suceeded in winning support amongst their branches -have they even raised it one wonders?

Those damn SWP for organising school, college and univesity student to march from their schools with their teachers, lecturers and education workers in the near future.

Yet methinks in the SP's wee world they shall all be but 'Invisble' but in the real world, the world that matters, the people know and knew better thus The SSAW and other SWP members and supporters speaking amongst those five speakers representing sections of our society on Feb 15th

Have to go back to the real world and help build a movement, Hadden calling Hadden Calling - enjoy your dreams my friend

by To visit Brian Thu Mar 13, 2003 18:09

'SSAW consists of swp and no-one else'. Either The swp must have huge respect then if they were choosen to speak to represent the students of N.Ireland at the Belfast FEb 15th or maybe they might just represent a little bit more than the swp. Methinks the broad coalition may know a little bit better.{listen to hadden again methinks} Your posting is becoming a bit ranting and wild {under pressure perchance} Talking of wild {estimates this time}

The 10,ooo on strike - that is as factual as the 100,000 you claimed walked outlast year when the anti secterianism rallies happened despite the fact the ICTU, all the centre left the left, far left, churches, Jesus, and whoever else all agreed at most 30,ooo. SP multiply by 3 and a bit and then add a bit more if they state they 'organised' it, inluding meetings. Thats the way it is done up here.

Just to go back on A prevoius posting that of the 'invisible schoolstudent' walkouts in W/Belfast. First SY said that only St marys went out, then you 'stood corrected' and agreed that another 250 went out from two other schools still failing to acknowledge the four other 'invisible'schools in W/Belfast. Poor Show Brian. Alass that is but revisionism.--- MYGODS I HATE,

Those damn SWP for organising those feeder marches from Belfasts working class communities for the upcoming March 22nd Demo
.
Those damn SWP for having respect within their unions and winning active support from their union branches for walkouts and rally calls for the near future. Nipsa for example .{Isn't that were you have six members on the EXC. as you stated recently} Has any of those members suceeded in winning support amongst their branches -have they even raised it one wonders?

Those damn SWP for organising school, college and univesity student to march from their schools with their teachers, lecturers and education workers in the near future.

Yet methinks in the SP's wee world they shall all be but 'Invisble' but in the real world, the world that matters, the people know and knew better thus The SSAW and other SWP members and supporters speaking amongst those five speakers representing sections of our society on Feb 15th

Have to go back to the real world and help build a movement, Hadden calling Hadden Calling - enjoy your dreams my friend

by Stephen Lawlor - Youth Against War Thu Mar 13, 2003 20:44

I just wanted to say that I was one of the group of Youth Against War members attending St. Aidan's who helped to orgainise Tuesdays walk-out. Stephen Rigney (who posted above) was the first person to walk out of the school grounds on Tuesday, where another member of Youth Against War waited with placards and megaphone. Myself and Rigney put a lot of effort into organising this walk-out on SSAW definetly had nothing to do with it.

But what's important is that as many school students as possible walk out tomorrow. St. Aidan's have the day off, and yet 40 students will sacrafice their free day to come to the Dail to support other students. Obviosly, then, our walk-out was a huge success. And thanks to everybody who walked out and supported us. And good luck to everybody tomorrow!!

by Anto Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:12

Minutes at the Dail. Big fuckin deal.