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Human Rights in Ireland >>
national | miscellaneous | news report 
Tuesday May 07, 2002 14:22
by philip thompson - none
philleus at hotmail dot com
gate lodge glenageary rd, upper glenageary
012369960
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Comments (15 of 15)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15that was such bullshit when you got arrested for doing a handstand. What happened to you inside the van ?
The impression I get is that you are almost glad that the Gardai might have been out of order yesterday, That you feel this lets face it tiny inccident proves what you feel about society correct. Why have past years protests been realitevly peacefull and good humored but when it increases in size newcomers arent blamed but the same Gardai who have been there in previous years. If it was so well intentioned would it have been to much trouble to inform the gardai work out a route and co-operate with them.
Just to get the Journalist up to speed as it were. Since 11th September numerous protests, I can think of the the anti-globalisation protest at the Burlington and an anti war demo at the US embassy, have been attacked by the gardai. Over the past 30 years hundreds of republican activists in this country have been continually harassed and attacked by the same gardai (no I'm not a republican).
Just what do you, or any of know about the gardai? If we do happen to wish to make a complaint about the gardai then who do we go to. Why it's the gardai. Who investigates this complaint, again it's the gardai themselves. Every politician in this country has been bleating on about reform of the RUC and the setting up of a proper complaints system to deal with allegations of RUC brutality. Well are the people of the Republic not entitled to the same structures.
Mark this, nothing will come of any shambolic investigations into garda brutality by the gardai. They are quite literally a law onto themselves for all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
I was at the Burlington and to say the Gardai were completly at fault, that there was no provication is just the type of fanitical one-sided arguement that undermines some of the excellent points that need to be made about globalisation. You make a very good point about the gardai and you will be pleased to hear that there has been report published recently on an alternative system for complaints. You seem to be able to point out alot thats wrong with society but whats your solution confrontation instead of co-operation. It would be much more helpful. If you put a little more thought and a little less millitancy into how to solve some of the genuine problems you seek to highlight. It will take time and effort but something concrete is much more likely to be achieved.
We live in a republic. We're not a communist state. However if you are unhappy with the way things are, then do something. I don't mean go on a march. Elect someone new. Start a party, generate public sympathy, and change it from within. Because while you have gained some sympathy for the garda response to the march, you have alientated yourselves from alot of other people.
As per OUR constitution, the people control our republic. Not the government. You have the power to change whats going on. This is not some south african military state. We live in the republic of ireland. A republic. Try working within the system for a while, before you try to break the system from without.
>We live in a republic. We're not a communist >state
??? what's that got to do with anything. The peoples republic of china is also a republic. At least they have the honesty to tell people that they can only vote for one party. I'm insulted with the illusion of choice. Our journalist friend suggests that I involve myself in the democratic process. This is the ultimate myth of neo-liberal democracy. It's not real democracy. It is the spectacle.
>the people control our republic. Not the >government.
Indeed they do, all the people except the dirty hippies, and the knackers, and the dirty immigrants, and the homeless, and those in prison, and the insane and....oh what the hell Pierre put so much more eloquently than I ever could - "To be governed is to be watched,inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, liscenced, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed;then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, sacrificed, sold, betrayed, and, to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. THAT is government;that is its justice;that is it's morality"
What a great idea, only allow people who contribute to society to have a say in how society is run. Stop useless people from voting (most dont anyway), let the more educated and deserving run the country. Have vote eligible citizens and then regular residents. You should have to reach a certain contribution to society before you are considered a citizen.
Jules no one thinks its perfect, of course there are many faults with the system but on the whole it gets better with time not worse (no need to point out a load of instances where it hasn't- i mean in general).The arrogance you display by saying its not a democaracy is quite depressing pressumibly its because you understand that the alternatives i'd presume youd offer wouldnt be acceptable to 99% of people(of course thats just because theres an evil media+political conspericy). Ireland on the whole is becomming one of the least surrpressive countries in the world. What we call a civil war is just a scuffel in other countries. Its good to see with each of your responses you have presented more problems and no achevable solutions. By the way i'm far from a liberal thinking them as nieave as you.
Eveyone has the right to vote. Anyone out there can get a job... theres surplus jobs out there for people. but most people find those jobs beneath them, especially when they realise that these jobs require no education or such.
As from previous posts, many people here have acknowledged as being hippies, and having a job. Whats stopping them from voting? whats stopping you? What's stopping YOU from changing this? You have the right to vote... so use it.
Perhaps someday you'll realise that the only ones keeping things as they are, are those people you refuse to stay within the system, and use the procedures that can change the system.
Go on, give it a try. you might get these changes in a peaceful way, without having to be at the tender mercies of the gardai....
You guys crack me up. Hey Journalist, do you write for the independent by any chance? Now, how important is my vote? Once ever 5 years I am given the choice between 5 parties who all say the same thing and who once elected go off and do exactly as they please, which is to enrich themselves and their friends. That is not a process I'd willingly involve myself in. Journalist, you bring up this hackneyed "Well it's not perfect, but it's the best we have" nonsense. The system is perfect. It does exactly what it's supposed to do. Give to those who have while taking from those who have not and protecting those who have while they rob and steal.
But all that is beside the point. If I could go out and vote for the CEO of Microsoft or Lehman brothers than I might consider voting. Those are the lads who have the power. They are the ones who have real control over our lives. Those clowns up in kildare street jump when the strings are pulled nothing more.
so you have a vote. You have the choice of 5 parties, because nobody else has created any more parties. You have the right to create a party if you wish, and if you get the backing of the people you can get into power. As for having a vote abt the ceo of microsoft, thats a different story. Microsoft has no power over the republic of ireland, exept when it comes to the commercial aspect. If you want to change things in ireland, at least act like a citizen. start believing in the people of ireland, and their ability to see right from wrong. Create your party, get out there, and rally for votes. You have under the constitution of the republic the right to campaign against the other parties.
By excluding this form of expression, you're alienating all the people who are interested in the voting process. I'm sorry but if i see you marching down a street shouting out your beliefs, i'm more likely to ignore you, and walk on. However, if you've created a part, and canvas the population for support, i'm more likely to actually pay attention to what you're saying.
Staying out of the system, might seem like a good idea at the moment. However, how do you expect to change anything, if you have no power IN government.
I expect to see government torn down. Bring me the heads of all the heads of state.
Look "Reader" and "Journalist":
what's being discussed here is that peaceful protestors were violently attacked. Anyway that you slice it, that's wrong. Violence against a fellow human being is the lowest act that one can committ. It is bad when an ordinary citizen does this, it is illegal. There's a term for it: aggravated assault. It is a criminal offence.
That is what the Gardai did. They, the sworn upholders of the laws of our society acted criminally.
This comes as little surprise to those of us that uphold morality, legality and anarchism: we have seen the most powerful and privileged in our Republic steal from the poorest.
You have called Ireland a democracy. Now, I know that Templemore and the Christian Brothers aren't the best educational institutions in the world, but really! This is a Representative Democracy: a very different thing from a Democracy. In this Republic of ours, we surrender our souls and morality and decision making power to one of a limited number of corrupt rich people. The sort of slibheen gombeen men that you (Reader and whoever the other one is) aspire to become.
You exhort others to "do something" and then specify that that means "standing for election" or "starting a new party". This course of action is pursued by _some_ of the people that are involved in RTS. Personally I reject it as ineffective and fundamentally incapable of achieving the type of society that I want.
Why?, you ask, your Cro-Magnon like brow corrugating in perplexity. Well, what I want to see is a society in which every child (even yours) has a good education (much better than yours), enough nutrition (so that they don't grow up brain-damaged like you) and freely-chosen productive work. This cannot occur in a Capitalist society. It can only occur in a society in which the opportunity to become corrupt is not presented to a minority of the population.
Societys which have tried to achieve this type of Socialist society have been violently overthrown by the authoritarian, capitalist anti-democrats. Here are some examples to back up that statement: Spain'36, Chile'73, Nicaragua '89.
What you and your neanderthal buddies in the cops are doing is destroying democracy.
I sincerely hope that you are removed from the position which you have abused so unthinkingly.
Now go away and educate yourself.
Capatilists didn't over through what was a constitutional monarchy (with a democratically elected government) in spain '36 Franco's facists and the rabble that went under the title republicans did. How can all children (i havent any yet) get a good education and be well nurouished you dont offer an alternative. Also isn't it true more children are better nuroished and better educated than 100 years ago. And if you dont feel a solution is avalible through engaging with the system what other way is there other than to cause the same hurt and pain to that you see happening to others.
You opined ignorantly:
"Capatilists [sic] didn't over through [sic] what was a constitutional monarchy(with a democratically elected government) in spain'36"
Well "Journalist", was Franco a capitalist or not? Answer: yes he was. What about Adolf Hitler? Yes he was. Was there universal suffrage in Spain? No.
"Journalist", you've got about 2 years of serious, solid research to do before you should bother to open your ignorant mouth. I can't possibly educate you over the Indymedia newswire, so I'd suggest you trot your complacent and ignorant self to the nearest available library and read a couple of modern histories. While you're at it you could have a look at Marx's "Capital", Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United States", Alexander Berkmans's "ABC of Anarchism", George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" and browse www.zmag.org, www.counterpunch.com.
Until then you are just wasting your time expressing your "opinions": you are just making noise.
The alternative offered is suggested in many of those works. Suffice to say that it goes under the general name of Communism. The details of how to implement that require YOUR education and co-operation, but as things stand now you don't even know what the word means.