Dail Debate on Free State Soldiers at Shannon

national | miscellaneous | news report Wednesday February 19, 2003 19:40 by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Text of Minister Michael Smith's debate with Deputies O'Snodaigh (SF), Sherlock (Lab) and Gormley (G) on the orders members of the Defence Forces sent to Shannon are under. Interesting to note they have not been issued with non-lethal ammunition

99. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Defence the number of Defence Forces personnel currently allocated to security duties at Shannon Airport; the role of these troops; if training has been provided for these troops to allow them to fulfil this role; the powers of arrest or action the personnel enjoy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4875/03]

100. Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Minister for Defence the circumstances under which troops deployed to guard Shannon Airport have been told they may use deadly force; if the troops have been issued with non-lethal weapons and ammunition; if so, if they are trained in their use; if the troops deployed have received training in riot control or policing public demonstrations; and the daily cost to the State of maintaining a military presence at Shannon Airport. [4988/03]

102. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Defence the rules of engagement of the Defence Forces currently deployed to protect Shannon Airport; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5029/03]

Mr. M. Smith: I propose to take Questions Nos. 99, 100 and 102 together.
The roles of the Defence Forces, as assigned by Government, are set out in the White Paper on Defence, which was published in February 2000. Among the assigned roles is to aid the civil power, meaning in practice to assist, when requested, the Garda Síochána, which has primary responsibility for law and order, including the protection of the internal security of the State. The Defence Forces, pursuant to their role of rendering aid to the civil power, assist the Garda as required in duties, which include the protection and guarding of vital installations.
As a consequence of the terrorist events of 11 September security at Shannon Airport is under continuous review. The Garda, which undertakes threat assessments for Shannon Airport on an ongoing basis, requested the Defence Forces to provide assistance in securing the airport. Such assistance has been rendered by the Defence Forces since 5 February 2003, and liaison between the Garda and the Defence Forces in this regard is continuing. The Deputy will appreciate that it would not be appropriate for me, for reasons of security, to indicate the number of Defence Forces personnel involved in such operations.
The Defence Forces annual training plan provides for training in a broad spectrum of activities, including riot control and the policing of demonstrations in the aid to the civil power, ATCP, role. However, the primary responsibility for the maintenance and restoration of the public peace rests with the Garda Síochána, with the Defence Forces acting in support of the Garda. The issue of powers of arrest for members of the Defence Forces does not therefore arise.

The role of the Defence Forces currently deployed at Shannon Airport is to assist the Garda in carrying out its security duties. The Defence Forces have not been issued with non-lethal weapons or ammunition.
In relation to rules of engagement, Defence Forces Regulation CS1 sets out the rules under which the Defence Forces may act. Regulation CS1 provides that any force used should be the minimum necessary to achieve the required objective. In addition, no action should be taken by the officer commanding in the absence of prior consultation, where practicable with the Garda Síochána.
On the use of lethal force, members of the Defence Forces may only discharge a live round of ammunition in the following circumstances: in protecting the military party and its individual members; in saving the lives of others; in preventing a criminal outrage of a serious nature, such as the burning or destruction of any building or the commission of any crime likely to cause loss of life; or the breaking open of a prison. However, the use of lethal force, may only be where there is no alternative and the Garda Síochána has been consulted as to the appropriate course of action. It is not expected that such circumstances will arise in Shannon.
The estimated weekly cost of allowances paid to Defence Forces personnel on security duty at Shannon Airport is €40,000. Other costs incurred, such as catering, transport, etc., would arise in the normal course.

Mr. Sherlock: Will the Minister to clarify an issue? He mentioned the number of troops stationed at Shannon Airport. Are they present on a 24 hour basis and what is the total likely cost of this presence to the Exchequer? Is it the €40,000 figure to which he referred?

Mr. M. Smith: The figure I mentioned covers security duty allowances. Other associated costs would also be incurred in the normal course of events.

Mr. Sherlock: Do the troops carry weapons with live ammunition?

Mr. M. Smith: Yes.

Mr. Sherlock: In what circumstances would the troops use live ammunition?

Mr. M. Smith: As I explained, very strict training modules in the use of lethal weapons in any context are provided for members of the Defence Forces. The Deputy will recall that the Defence Forces have been exposed to dangerous circumstances on may occasions. They include Border duties, duties in the Lebanon and other duties on the international front. Members of the Defence Forces are and must be subject to special control mechanisms for managing circumstances in which the use of lethal force arises. We are fortunate that there have not been incidents in this regard to date, apart perhaps from one event many years ago. The country can be assured that live ammunition is used as a last resort when soldiers' lives or those of others are threatened, which is highly unlikely in the context of the current circumstances at Shannon Airport. I have complete confidence in the ability of all members of the Defence Forces to act prudently and justly, even in the most dangerous circumstances.

Mr. Sherlock: The Minister provided a figure of €40,000 for the cost of the operation at Shannon Airport. What is its overall cost to the Exchequer?

Mr. M. Smith: I do not have the details to hand. Suffice to say the Defence Forces are paid regardless of where they are operating and transport and maintenance costs are similar whether they are in the Glen of Imaal, the Curragh or elsewhere. The additional security costs arising from the maintenance of a 24 hour service are not substantial and are in the order of the figure I provided.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: My question referred to the daily cost of the operation. If the figure of €40,000 refers to the daily cost for the past three weeks, one arrives at a substantial sum when it is multiplied by 21. It should not be dismissed so quickly.
If, as the Minister states, non-lethal weapons or projectiles have not been issued and it is not expected that lethal force will be used, what would the soldiers do if, for example, protesters took over the runway? Would they sit on them? What rules would apply in such circumstances? Would the case of a protester sitting on a runway in a manner that was likely to endanger life in terms of planes landing constitute grounds for the use of lethal force?

Mr. M. Smith: I have already given some details as to the responsible approach of the Defence Forces. I utterly reject the implication that members of the Defence Forces would be reckless in any circumstances. They are totally dependable, as they have proved time and again. They have faced extraordinarily difficult circumstances in the Border region. When the troubles in the North were at their worst and atrocities of a most brutal nature were being carried out on innocent people, the Defence Forces were there to assist the Garda.
In this instance the Defence Forces have been made available at the request of the Garda Síochána, which is responsible for security in Shannon Airport. They will act in accordance with Garda requirements. Like anybody else dealing with this question from a reasonable standpoint, I can envisage no circumstances in which it would be necessary to use lethal weapons.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: It was not my intention to suggest troops would be reckless. What level of Garda support is available to ensure they operate properly and are in a position to be directed as to the course of action they should take? Is a superintendent on duty in Shannon Airport 24 hours a day?

Mr. M. Smith: As far as I am aware, a superintendent is always in charge although he may not necessarily be on site all of the time. Thanks to modern technology and the investment the Government has made in modernising communications for both the Defence Forces and the Garda, it is possible to receive instructions from superior officers at a distance. In general, officers at all levels know what action should be taken. However, in times of doubt they may require to have redress to a senior officer.

Mr. Gormley: Is the Minister aware that his statements today appear to contradict previous statements he made on this issue. For example, The Irish Times of 21 January reported him as saying the following during an address at Collins Barracks in Cork:
It is unfair to Shannon to have it down as a potential target. We have no reason to believe there is a threat to us.
He appears to be saying something completely different today.
On 4 February RTE reported the Minister as saying that while troops were entitled to protect themselves if their lives were at stake, this did not extend to firing on people attacking property. I did not fully hear the four criteria he set out for using lethal force, but I understand one of them referred to the destruction of property. If, however, destruction of property is not a criterion, what would happen if al-Qaeda launched an attack solely against aircraft with machine guns and explosives? Would our troops stand by and allow them to do this? This issue needs to be clarified, as there have been contradictions in the Minister's responses throughout this episode.

Mr. M. Smith: There is no contradiction between anything I said in Cork and my earlier comments here. If I were to be asked whether there is a credible threat to Shannon Airport or any part of the country - a question I have not been asked - I would rely entirely on the security forces who have consistently indicated that there is no credible threat.

It is important to realise, however, that that position can change quickly. Unfortunately, we do not have control over these matters but prevention and detection by intelligence sources is the way to deal with them. There is no contradiction between what our Defence Forces do in Shannon and my indicating, as the Deputy and the country are aware, that there is no current credible threat to this country.
In terms of what the Defence Forces would do in the circumstances the Deputy outlined, which are entirely different from what has happened up to now, people engaged in what we understood was to be a peaceful protest. However, their actions and the weapons they carried takes them out of the category of people who are peaceful. Nonetheless, dealing with that type of circumstance is entirely different, and Deputy Gormley knows that. From what he has described - al-Qaeda or some of its cohorts trying to damage an aeroplane or property in Shannon - both of us know what would happen in those circumstances-----

Mr. Gormley: What would happen?

Mr. M. Smith: -----and they are entirely different.

Mr. Gormley: What would happen?

Mr. M. Smith: Both of us know what would happen.

Mr. Gormley: Tell me what would happen.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy must hear the reply.

Mr. M. Smith: The Deputy is just trying to make-----

Mr. Gormley: I am asking the Minister to spell out what would happen in those circumstances. It is an entirely reasonable question.

Mr. M. Smith: If terrorists of that kind were in Shannon I would expect our soldiers to do what is appropriate, and so would the Deputy.

Mr. Gormley: The Minister also said in previous responses that if war was declared, we would have to revisit this matter. That was repeated by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen. Is it not the case that it is necessary to do that under the Constitution and that a clear signal is being sent that Irish troops, in protecting Shannon, are part of the American war effort?

Mr. M. Smith: One of the most important responsibilities of any government in a democratic society is to protect its people, institutions and installations. It is wrong for Deputy Gormley to suggest that we should not care about what is done to property at Shannon Airport, or who is involved in that, and that the State should stand idly by. A large number of people use Shannon and the many people employed there depend on Shannon for their living. It would be nonsense not to fully protect that airport. We are not prepared to stand by and let that happen. The airport is being secured. The Defence Forces were requested to assist in the effort of making the security more formidable. That has happened. It is an exercise in how we should protect an installation of that kind which is an extremely valuable employer-----

Mr. Gormley: What about the Constitution?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please.

Mr. M. Smith: -----for the people living in the west who depend on it for many services.

Mr. Gormley: I asked about the Constitution.

Mr. M. Smith: The Deputy also asked the other question. The Deputy can be assured that our Constitution and legal obligations will be fully met.