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| UCD branch disaffiliates from S.W.P national | miscellaneous | news report  Friday April 26, 2002 19:12 by UCD SWSS Branch Committee - Socialist Alternative rogerprotzlives at yahoo dot co dot uk The UCD branch of the Socialist WorkersEParty have recently decided to disaffiliate from the main party and form an independent socialist group, Socialist Alternative. Since most people active on the left in Ireland have to deal with the SWP, we believe the reasons for our decision may be of general interest. As most people will remember, this time last year there was a genuine buzz on the radical left. Globalise Resistance was founded and brought together many disparate groups and individuals. Two buses of Irish activists went to Genoa and returned full of ideas and enthusiasm. The general outlook seemed positive. Yet soon things turned sour. GR was torn apart by squabbling; Gluaiseacht and the WSM walked out, along with many others. The SWP has generally been blamed for this degeneration, and with some cause: by using GR purely as a recruitment front, they alienated potential allies and squandered a promising opportunity. However, it would be wrong to attribute this behaviour to malice or stupidity on the part of the SWP; the real cause lies deeper . For the last few years the SWP leadership has adopted a daft approach of predicting the imminence of revolution at any given time and driving the rank-and-file membership into a frenzy of activism. Eventually they get tired and disillusioned and a new crop are recruited. With party members dropping like flies and the revolution always just around the corner, recruitment takes priority over anything else: certainly over the task of creating a broad-based anti-globalisation group. The turnover of membership is so high that few party activists have the experience to challenge the leadership, so their political analysis is free to wander ever further away from reality. Wishful thinking and hyper-activism take the place of any realistic assessment of the situation. Since party members spend all their time running around from campaign to campaign, they have little time to read and discuss about politics; if you get the impression that someone from the SWP is just quoting from a leaflet, its probably because its true. This sort of thing was going on long before Seattle but the last two years have seen matters get steadily worse. The SWP is heading for collapse within a few years if it doesnt change course. Unfortunately, because of the partys undemocratic internal regime, a debate could only begin if it was initiated by the leadership. Since most of the Belfast branch of the SWP were expelled a few months ago for raising similar points, the chances of such a debate taking place are slim. Therefore weve decided that the only course open to us is to leave and work as independent socialists. Weve published a much more detailed account of the problems within the SWP at our website for anyone interested. |
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Comments (21 of 21)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21Thank you!!!
Every anti-capitalist in Ireland will thank you for this.
This is excellent news and is a great sign.
Far too often activists join parties like the SWP, get dissillusioned and drop out of activism all together.
It can't of been easy for the UCD SWP members to come to this conclusion and act on on it so positively. But I think it is really great that instead of givng up, they have taken a step forward. Hopefully now others, in the same situation, instead of dropping out and copping out will see that there are alternative ways for socialists and activists to organise.
I also think that the report on Globalise Resistance is very informative. Finally we've gotten an honest account of how the SWP uses fronts for recruitment from former members themselves. Incredible to think that the SWP which claims to be socialist in fact lacks internal democracy.
Yes, it's called Leninism and it has nothing to do with socialism.
I don't care if you people in U.C.D. will agree with me, but I'm very pleased to see ye are thinking for yourselves (which is after all what got ye into the PARTY in the first place), rather than letting the Central Committee do it for ye.
Follow no one but yourself.
Worth Reading:
Basic Bakunin http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/bakunbas.html
The complete edition of
"Izvestiia of the Provisional Revolutionary Committee of Sailors, Soldiers and Workers of the town of Kronstadt"
http://www.struggle.ws/russia/izvestiia_krons1921.html
Revolutionary Traditions: Council Communism
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/counsw.htm
A Ballad Against Work
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/intro.htm
As we see it and as we dont see it
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/solie.htm
- an Essential statement of what revolutionary politics is (and isnt).
This is the way forward for all the honest people who have been intimidated by the cynical and nasty SWP Stalinist leaders. Oh yes they pretend to disagree with Stalin, but they behave exactly like Joe. There is nothing the SWP leaders fear more than the anti-capitalist movement. They can't handle it. Power to the people. We are many, they are few.
Good to see that you have independently organised. I am all for unity but also for diversity. All breeds of revolutionaries CAN work together, but it must be from the bottom up and not top-down.
The whole freshness of the anti-cap thing could really take off in Ireland but the SWP/GR I think stifle it and just peddle the same old shite.
Good luck with your Socialist Alternative. I hope that you can identify with other like minded folk and work with them. I think Trinity College has an independent socialist group as well.
Excuse me for being cynical but why do these 'splits' always happen on the Eve of Major Anti establishment Mobilisations whether they be Anti capitalist Events or in this case today's Major Anti war Mobilisation in Dublin? This just proves the folly of relying on (Mostly) middle class Students to be the vanguard of the Revolution whether they be Leninist, Anarchist, Environmentalist etc, etc. At the end of the day these (Mostly) middle class Students know which side their bread is buttered on and they (Mostly) return to their comfortable middle class backgrounds and to hell with the Revolution and overthrowing the system and improving the lot of the masses. So the Revolution as far as these middle class Students are concerned when they enter their very well paid professions whether it be a Leninist or an Anarchist Revolution or whatever can just bugger off! This just proves the point that when you are building a Revolutionary Movement whether it's an Anarchist or a Marxist one or whatever that you have to heavily involve the Working Class and the Poor. That's the only way that we have any chance of success! This reminds of the old joke "What's worse than than the SWP? 2 SWPs! BTW I notice that this 'dissident' SWP group in Belfield are still using their old SWP link www.ucdswss!
Inspite of the preceeding cynicism, i would like to offer my support to the recently disafilliated UCD socialists. As far as i'm concerned, any split with the SWP is a step forward to greater unity within the broader anti-capitalist movement.
Two posts up is Paul Kinsella. Surely if you're going to hide your name you could change your writing style (which we can all recognise a mile away).
Duh.
What kind of organisation will UCD Socialist Alternative be?
Will it be a broad group or will it maintain a distinct 'party line'. Will they link up with the expelled Belfast branch or the ex SWP Rathmines group? What about the sections of the IS in Greece and USA?
I wouldn't accuse the SWP of being Stalinists! They are just a highly undemocratic sect that is very weak on theory and is now falling apart. It is true what Trotsky said about democracy being to the revolution what oxygen is to the human body. It looks like the SWP is now dying.
Fool on the Hill don't go around saying stuff without any proof to back it up. For a start it wasn't me that posted that article because at the time that that was posted last night I was enjoying finishing off my last few pints of Cashels Ciderin my local pub the Kilmardinny on Lorcan Avenue Santry as I always have on a Friday and Saturday night and I was fairly well locked last night. Fool on the Hill before you ask no they don't have an Internet terminal in the Kilmardinny. Now it does happens to be that I do largely agree with what the contributor wrote last night but that's not the point. I always give my full name and address on this forum unlike many other people.
This series of splits in the SWP/IS has its roots in the very nature of the organisation itself. I have to say I'm not all that surprised at this latest split. During a conversation with one of the UCD SWSS "leading lights" during the winter I came to the conclusion that this individual (who is one of the signatories of this document) didn't know the first thing about democratic centralism or the dialectic (or would that be too dogmatic for such a right on dude) which is par for the course with the swss. I was a member of the SWSS in ucd back in 95 but left after about a year nearly completely dissilusioned with Socialism. luckily enough I began to work with the SP members in the college and joined the Socialist Party in 98. Anyhow I digress.
The reason that many SWM'ers use the dialectic selectively is that it disproves "their" theory of State capitalism and democratic centralism would allow the movement to be regenerated by its genuine members (which the SWP has in abundance).
On the other hand hower, "Keeping it loose" (organisation of the party, meetings etc. is undemocratic because strong speakers can take over meetings while a propper chair can allow everyone to have their say.
Finally the accusations of sectarianism against the SP towards the SWP in the past, centered around a pamphlet released in 1999 which alluded to some of the things the ucd swss mentioned in their document.
I wish SA/ucdswss all the best but if you go down that ultra-left road of disregarding propper democratic centralism and the dialectic (the mechanics of Marxism) you will be condemned to repeat the same mistakes as the IS/SWP.
OOOOOOOOOh the web that is spun, exagerrated and turned into so called news.
To authenticate the big UCD split document could the authors or other contributors please answer these questions?
Which Belfast branch of the SWP has been expelled?
Who were the members of the branch? When did it happen? What was the issues involved?
In reality (remember that) if there was no such expulsion what in your actually document is true?
Finally from the Palestine march to SWP boycott to UCD split - Sinn Fein etc are handing over hospitals, schools etc to fat cats, abandoning the C3, cosying up to USA, doing very little about Palestine. Le Pen gets 17% in France, Rev movements in Venzuela, Argentina etc War on Terrorism. And you want to debate the SWP?
Indy media my arse - theres more class politics in the Daily Mirror
Thank you to everyone who replied to the post, for your encouragement and support for the position and actions we have taken. While the previous documents reflect the opinion of Socialist Alternative, I can only speak in a personal capacity here and not for the others, Im going to keep this brief and try to answer some questions raised.
Excuse me for being cynical but why do these 'splits' always happen on the Eve of Major Anti establishment Mobilisations whether they be Anti capitalist Events or in this case today's Major Anti war Mobilisation in Dublin? This just proves the folly of relying on (Mostly) middle class Students to be the vanguard of the Revolution whether they be Leninist, Anarchist, Environmentalist etc, etc. At the end of the day these (Mostly) middle class Students know which side their bread is buttered on and they (Mostly) return to their comfortable middle class backgrounds and to hell with the Revolution and overthrowing the system and improving the lot of the masses.-Very cynical and suspicious!
I cant answer that question, Ill just put it down to your cynicism and coincidence. We decided to go public with the split before the end of the college term, and as last Friday was the last day of the term, hence the announcement. I also disagree with relying on Students to act as a revolutionary vanguard, no one can act as a revolutionary vanguard. As the clich goes, and it still rings through the liberation of the workers must be through the actions of the working class themselves. Unfortunately your description of students is a rather shallow analysis of the present situation. Students occupy a strange position in society, students come from a variety of social backgrounds, and all are not in college for the same reason, they are in college for a short period of time and may be more willing than other sections of society to put up with atrocious living standards due to the promise of riches to come. Students occupy a duel position, the majority are now forced to work to fund their education and as workers are subject to the same exploitation as other sections of the working class, student workers are also more disempowered as fragmentation of labour sees them working in shops, pubs etc and areas with an isolated work force, so there are no real union presence to fight their case, apart from USI and the pretty much useless dual membership of SIPTU. Successive governments seem only to happy to allow the continuation of student poverty as it feeds into the interests of business and the creation of a section of society forced to work in the low wage economy.
As stated the SWP has over gauged the depth of radicalisation here and abroad, this equally applies to the student movement. In UCD and elsewhere Unions remain dominated by rightwing regressive forces such as The UCD KBC, who rather than advancing the interests of students, building a fighting union or involving the mass student body in the activities of the Union they do all they can to disempower and sabotage the student movement, evidenced by the recent Fianna Fail coordinated attack on USI. Students, as eamann macann has noted are now engaged in a particular form of struggle, that of economic survival. I believe that we, like must activists should act in the sphere they exist in, I as a student should campaign on issues relating to students. Of course I should also understand the broader struggle of the workingclass as a whole and how we relate to that. It is a common struggle, the GATSif implemented will fuck over students, teachers, and other sections of the working class with the same ferocity, it is our collective responsibility to act wherever we exist in fighting off this encroachment of the market on yet another sphere of our existence.
There is nothing the SWP leaders fear more than the anti-capitalist movement.-I am not an anarchist, I'm a socialist
Briefly, I think the SWP are particularly delighted with the emergence of the anti capitalist movement, as all revolutionaries are. Their actions in Globalise Resistance, as in other United Fronts, is similar to the operation of other groups and organisations, they attempt to inject their politics into the movement, attempting to pull it towards revolutionary politics as opposed to say arguing the case for fair trade. The problem with the SWP is that they dont have the tact that other groups have, an intervention is not standing outside a meeting selling a paper as discussed previously. Anyway moving on quickly.
What kind of organisation will UCD Socialist Alternative be?
Will it be a broad group or will it maintain a distinct 'party line'. Will they link up with the expelled Belfast branch or the ex SWP Rathmines group? What about the sections of the IS in Greece and USA-activist
At the moment we are basically in discussion of what form we will take, I can send you more information when it araises if you reply to my email address. Seemingly there was a socialist society in Trinity a number of years ago, that and its structure is something to investigate. A problem eith the SWP and the reason the SWP is always seeking to raise the level of politics among its members, is because the membership are not involved in the formulation of the partys political perspective. Hence the need for constant weekly meetings, or weekend Marxist schools to keep the membership up to date on the latest diagnosis of the PC , perpetuating the image of the party as nothing more than what A ucd Comrade called once called a talking shop for the intelligentsia. The other problem with the way the SWP formulated party lines, was that it seemed to reinforce the top down model that was developing in the party, with the organiser coming out and explaining the party line, while we sat back like good little revolutionaries having our own perspectives and ideas ignored. It also created a sense of isolation, as membership felt isolated from the decision making process, a number of Swss-ies that dropped out of activism this year admit this too as a factor in their dropping out, if we formulate opinions somehow as a collective, then it would be all inclusive, maybe adopting some sort of adaptation of Platform Anarchist organisational structures is my suggestion, I guess just wait and happen. We are not going to have any formal link with any other organisation, though we may share a theoretical affinity. But we will continue to build resistance to the system with all on the left,a nd as a matter of course will probably work closer with people sharing an greater affinity with our ideas than others.
hower, "Keeping it loose" (organisation of the party, meetings etc. is undemocratic because strong speakers can take over meetings while a propper chair can allow everyone to have their say.-mark
Yep, basically im in agreement with you, structure is necessary to counter the meergence of natral leaders who, if structures are absent, can not be held responsible to the broader body. This applies to GR, if there was some sort of coherant democratic structure, a lot of the paranoia and distrust around the group would dissipate.
Which Belfast branch of the SWP has been expelled?
Who were the members of the branch? When did it happen? What was the issues involved?-puzzled
Check out http://www.geocities.com/isireland/ or a comment by Jon Anderson on this issue on the same newswire at http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=2732
[email protected]
related link: [email protected]
The questions have still not been answered. They were
Which Belfast branch of the SWP has been expelled?
Who were the members of the branch? When did it happen? What were the issues involved?
If this is not answered then the document is harbouring many untruths
It seems somewhat disengenuous to me to say that the credibility of the document written by the comrades in socialist alternaitve is fraudulent merely because it does not spell out the precise details of the expulsion of members of the SWP in Belfast. As far as I can gather there were expelled because they opposed the expulsion of the American ISO from the Interntional Socialist Tendency which is dominated by the British SWP. One of the individuals involved was JOn Anderson who I have seen writing for the Socialist Worker. By the way does it really matter what branch in Belfast it was the point is they were bureaucratically expelled.
"It seems somewhat disengenuous to me to say that the credibility of the document written by the comrades in socialist alternative is fraudulent merely because it does not spell out the precise details of the expulsion of members of the SWP in Belfast."
Nobody has been expelled from the Belfast Branch of the SWP. The idea that most of the branch has been is laughable. Of course the credibility of the document is fraudulent if the so called facts are lies.
Not one person was 'expelled because they opposed the expulsion of the American ISO from the Interntional Socialist Tendency which is dominated by the British SWP'. The link with the ISO was broken after democratic debate and every faction/individual had the opportunity to oppose the break. No one argued against it.
In the same way the Scottish Socialist Party broke from the CWI because of the CWI's inceasing sectarianism, so the IS tendency broke from the ISO. Or were the SSP 'bureaucratically expelled'??
Let's get the Belfast issue straight. The UCD comrades' statement is not entirely accurate due probably to lack of information. They assume the Belfast purge was sudden and dramatic when in fact it was more drawn out and took place further back in time. They also assume, rather charitably, that the leadership went through formal expulsion procedures.
But they are closer to the truth than the official line. If the PC has told you there was one expulsion (non-political) and one resignation (I assume me) that is an outright lie. If you want the whole story - and it's very boring - then I can post it. But I warn you, it doesn't show the leadership in a good light.
As far as the "sectarian" ISO is concerned - well, the impression I have of the ISO's work is very different from the impression conveyed by the SWP PC. Maybe you should read what they have to say. And maybe you should admit that the Irish SWP PC broke off links with the ISO immediately on receiving the order from London and only bothered to inform their members later.
And what's this about factions having an opportunity to put forward their position? Since when has the SWP allowed factions? If you think these debates are democratic mate, we've obviously been going to different meetings. Are you sure you're in the SWP?
I see I was wrong about the SWP not responding on the internet. I notice though that all of their responses have been lacking in politics and have stuck to name-calling. You say we're undemocratic, well so are you. and you are spoiled brats. etc. etc.
Go on Jon, give us the full story of the decline and fall of the does it or does it not exist Belfast Branch.
I'm no longer an activist because I'm too lazy but I do consider myself a socialist and I am a member of the UCD SWSS.
Now, as far as I can remember democracy is THE most important facet of socialism yet thes lads disaffiliated without any debate and without informing any of the 100+ membership. As a member I should have been notified of the EGM or AGM or whatever yoke you called to pull this stunt.
Who knows I might have agreed with you and joined but to point fingers at SWP flaws while failing in the fundamental process of democracy is a bit rich.
this country needs a strong alternative that actually has an ideaology and that wont work with the mainstream capitalist parties. Unfortunatly dogmatic and pedantic disagreements means that the left in this country is a laughing stock.
undebated decisions taken by the "lads" wont help build a socialist alternative, the SP, SWP, independents need to create a democratic(in the true sense of the word) alternative which will change the system much less accept the current state of affairs.
Is this really the best they can do? OK, "Dejan", ill have a check in the membership book and see if you ever joined UCD SWSS. Even if you did, since by your own admission you were "too lazy" to get involved in any way during the year, i cant say i give a damn about your opinion. Right wing and social democratic parties may like to have a large paper membership of people who play no active role in the organisation, but socialists have always rightly insisted that a member is active or nothing. Why should you have any say in decisions which dont affect you?
I sincerely hope this is the last comment posted by an alleged "SWSS member" who has never been seen at one of our meetings. Give it up guys, youre not fooling anyone