Indymedia = Anarchist Censorship

by An boy - AA Fri Apr 26, 2002 16:11

If this newswire is not totally open and free then ignore it, boycott it and diss it!
I am an anarchist and censoring anything - for any reason - goes against my fundamental principals.

I demand, as a user and supporter of Indmedia, that the IMC team replies and comments on these allegations!

by roit grrrl Fri Apr 26, 2002 16:21

i bet that first post was by a socialist worker, wasn't it..
you do yourselves no favours belittling others. yes anarchists take politics very seriously thats why they want nothing to do elections.
now be a good little boy/girl go back to "the party" and build the movement and what ever you do, don't try to think for yourself

by Nestor Makhno Fri Apr 26, 2002 16:41

Its easy to lose what this rough treatment meant in the mist of history. An example of what it meant for an individual is seen in the faith of Bogush. He was one of the anarchists of Russian origin expelled from America to Russia in 1921 for his part in opposing the imperialist slaughter of world war one. Soon after arriving he went to see the area controlled by the Mhaknovists (anarchist army) at a time when they were in their third treaty with the Bolsheviks. He was a few hours there when the Bolsheviks for the third time betrayed this treaty, attacking the Mhaknovists without warning. He immediately returned to Khrakov where he was arrested by the Cheka (Bolshevik secret police), and shot in March of 1921

by Eoin Dubsky Fri Apr 26, 2002 16:46

What's all this about? What censorship??

Oh and by the way... could someone please explain why people refuse to use their real names when posting news and comments here? If you want people to take what you say seriously, you've got to at least stand over what you've said (i.e. say who you are).

by Raymond Fri Apr 26, 2002 17:00

Has anyone realised that all this was started by someone outside of indymedia(another news(ha) organization) criticizing Indymedia's format of allowing all forms of info to be posted????? And as for the SWP/Anarcho feud...come now..we can all smash the state together. ill even share my tools.

:) BE Indymedia!!!!!!!!

by Bertie Ahern - Fianna Fail Fri Apr 26, 2002 17:08

"Eoin Dubsky",
the reason that people don't use their real name is that some of us don't want our bosses to see what we're posting. Not all of us are students or paid activists that do this stuff for a living. We DON'T want other people to necessarily know we are associated with the opinion.

There is no value in posting your name (as demonstrated by this post). As they say, "on the internet, noone knows you're a dog!". There is one method of "signing" your posts that I am preparing an article for Indymedia.ie on (along with its associated information on encryption) which is a digital signature by PGP/GPG key.

The reference to anarchist censorship refers to the fact that there has been open debate on the newswire by people calling for the removal of election material by the parties that are standing. It was complained about in open debate on the newswire as many people felt that it was spam and not news. Invitations were issued to all concerned to join the editorial mailing list which is OPEN TO ANYONE.

The only post that I've seen by a declared anarchist using his own name "Andrew" of the WSM states that he is OPPOSED to the removal of the election posts because he feels that it IS news and it IS activity even if it is counter-productive activity. Andrew pointed out that WSM had NO members on the editorial board and that it was unlikely that people that believe in open democratic structures would be running a secret cabal. (The only groups with a history of doing this are the vanguardist Marxist-Leninists and Trotskyists).

So the parent post to this one is a pile of rubbish.

See you in the next Dail,
Bertie (Phuq Hedd, who is officially unaffiliated, but an anarchist)

ps. I believe that the "real name" thing is a type of false ad hominem argumenthttp://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~jpryor/general/vocab/glossary.html . Read what the poster is saying. Judge the post by its logic, its supporting evidence. Don't rely on what you think is your personal knowledge of the poster.

by Daithi Fri Apr 26, 2002 17:15 macsithd at tcd dot ie

What a load of rubbish. Yeah, the anarchists are taking over the asylum. What am I going to do with my Labour membership card then, well?

Your suggestion that (a) anyone is conspiring against openness, and (b) that we're all anarchists is derisory and makes my laugh.

:-)

Oh - Howya Bertie. Glad you've joined us.

by Michael Ronan O'Connell - Socialist Workers Party Fri Apr 26, 2002 17:55 michaeloconnell2001 at yahoo dot com 087-9212272

PLEASE DON'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE REAL ENEMY - CAPATALISM - THE AXIS OF EVIL - BUSH, BLAIR & BERTIE - AND SHERON

LONG LIVE ANARCHISM! LONG LIVE SOCIALISM!

Michael.

by Chekov Sat Apr 27, 2002 02:45

The authoritarian mentalities of some people is amazing. As soon as a decision goes against them they start screaming about secret cabals and 'front' organisations and slinging mud about 'middle class' anarchists. If this is the way they operate themselves, it's probably not surprising that they suspect that others are constantly plotting against them. As an anarchist and member of the WSM, I honestly couldn't tell you if any of the members of the indymedia editorial list are anarchists, but it's pretty damned obvious that the people who put the work into it have a strong commitment to open publishing and alternative news. I support the project because I think open publishing newsfeeds are a good thing in themselves, regardless of whether the people who run them are anarchists.

With indymedia, if you disagree with a decision you are free to join the editorial list and argue the case for it to be overturned through a democratic process among the people who put the work into the project. This is democracy, which is a difficult thing to deal with for some people of an authoritarian bent. Personally I think that the SWP's election guff is as deserving of inclusion as GR's newsletters, so I'd be against the decision to ban it from the newswire. In fact I think it could provide a useful way for their potential voters to quiz them on the details of their program and let them prove that they really are an alternative worth voting for. However, just because I disagree with the decision of the indymedia workers, doesn't mean that I'm going to start slandering them and calling them middle class wankers. What type of respect can you have for workers' democracy when you slander a democratic decision of the workers of indymedia?

This is not an anarchist/SWP diatribe, it is just that whenever democracy rears its ugly head, there are always a few authoritarians around to shout 'anarchist conspiracy' in an attempt to intimidate their opponents. Happily this is unlikely to work on indymedia, and if you tell somebody that she's acting like an anarchist enough times, eventually she'll say "I'll really have to look into this anarchism thing", so keep up the good work.

Chekov

by abulafia Sat Apr 27, 2002 14:48 notabulafia at yahoo dot co dot uk

If this site were an excercise in censorship, would this comment not already be removed?

by eamonn Sun Apr 28, 2002 16:23 gumbridge at hotmail dot com

whats wrong with anarchists at the end of the day?
"anarchist conspiracy" talk really goes to show the level of paranoia and lust for power and authority that, while i'm sure it's not a part of every socialists daily reality, is inherent in these hierarchical politically "involved" movements such as the swp, the socialist party etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.their willingness to denigrate and run down people whose views differ to any degree is indicative of a frightening level of intolerance that, should their much-vaunted workers revolution come about, would worry me enormously."anarchist conspiracy" "counter-revolutionary activities" "sabotage" theyre all very familiar phrases to anyone who has even a cursory knowledge of the history of this continent in the last century. i wish socialists no ill whatsoever individually, but as organisations they really can scare the wits out of me.
besides, i honestly think that the vast majority of anarchists are far more interested in harming the state than destroying socialism.

by ciara Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:15

this idea of boycott the facist indymedia is really getting up my nose. If everyone was allowed to post electioneering on the newswire it would not be news at all and the wire would be flooded with advertisements for different parties. Would you be so angry if indymedia were against labour or fianna fail posting propeganda on the newswire. Please think about WHY these posts are being removed, and don't just assume its because indymedia are a bunch of anarchists, frankly I have no idea why you posted this here, its not news either, if you have a problem why don't you mail the edit list. Ive said this before but people prefer to hide behinde pseudonyms on the newswire...