Bin Charges Passed

by Labour Member Thu Jan 16, 2003 21:02

He got married last weekend. No idea about the others. Presume Lacey is going to get the boot and deserves it too. Gobshite!

by Frank Thu Jan 16, 2003 21:31

I suppose Sinn Fein members dont always get to go on honeymoons when they are due back in prison for mudering gardaí but I reckon Joe Costello is entitled to a honeymoon.

by Sean Thu Jan 16, 2003 21:39

What a dick Head!

by iosaf jedi of the ipsiphi Thu Jan 16, 2003 21:40 ipsiphi23 at email dot com

solution
recycle your rubbish.
make friends with your neighbours.
do a carpool thing.
if one of your neighbours has a car.
give useful stuff to people who need it.

keep the rest with hair, nail clippings, shite and urine in your bedroom.

Never might I repeat Never
pay charges to a state that ripped you off.
that ripped your da off.
that ripped your ma off.
just remember the supreme little rascal and the RTE news presenter and
Three Hundred Thousand out of Work.
and "tightening our belts".

23 is more than a number.
it is a way of life.

by Keeping up with the Jones's Thu Jan 16, 2003 22:57

So Dermot Lacey has continued a proud tradition of Lord mayors supporting bin charges. Follows in the footsteps of Sinn Fein's McManus in Sligo.

by anti bin tax - anti bin tax Fri Jan 17, 2003 01:41

trevor sargent can shove his bin tax up his ass, cos i still aint payin. what a bunch of sell out fucks the greens are. polluter pays eh? well how bout payin for the methane pollution that comes outta your mouths ye fuckin sell out wankers? ts is very willing tp cycle round on a bike during election time, but when it comes to real things that matter, the greens show their true colours are green, as in greenback. thanks lads, as an (now ex) green voter, dont come a knockin again ye pricks

by Graham Caswell - Green Party Fri Jan 17, 2003 02:19

"The Green Party policy for Waste Management is based on the "Polluter-Pays" and the "Waste Not Pay Not" Principles and on the action sequence of Waste Prevention Minimisation Re-use Recycling Storage, without Incineration or Superdumps."

From the Green Party waste policy, February 2001
(see http://www.greenparty.ie/policy/Waste_Policy.htm )

The Green Party councillors are sticking to their well-researched and well thought-out policy. While this might not be a popular stance, it is a realistic one - unless you're into more incinerators and landfills, of course.

What's your solution?

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Fri Jan 17, 2003 03:42

The Green Party policy on the bin tax is cretinous. The bin tax is not an "environmental tax". It is a flat rate tax on working class families.

Domestic rubbish makes up a tiny percentage of waste in this country. The overwhelming majority of the waste which goes into landfills is from industry - particularly the building industry - and from retail businesses. Why are the developers and the business interests not being asked to pay for the disposal of what is after all their waste?

Instead ordinary people are to pay once again. This isn't the polluter paying - not only do the real polluters only pay a fraction of the costs of their pollution but households are charged a flat rate regardless of how much they pollute. The tax isn't on "polluting", but on living.

The bin tax agenda is simple:

1) Establish the principle of double taxation. Ordinary people are to be taxed for all local services on top of the tax they already pay for those services to central government.

2) Further shift the tax burden onto PAYE workers, who already pay most of the tax in this country. Flat rate taxes are always unjust - Michael Smurfit is to pay the same as ordinary working people.

3) Ripen all local services for privatisation.

Now the dogs on the street know all this. Fianna Fail certainly know it. The campaign against the service charges know it. It appears that only the Green Party missed it.

The charitable view of the issue is that the poor nice liberal Greens are just as thick as pigshit and have had the wool pulled over their eyes. A more realistic view of it is that the Greens are ultimately just like FF, the PDs, Labour and the other right wing parties and they just don't care about working class people at all.

While I'm on the subject of hypocritical parties pretending to be the friend of ordinary workers, I'm glad that somebody pointed out the irony of Sinn Fein attacking Labour's Mayor for voting in the bin tax. Its almost as if they think we will all forget that their councillors and Mayor in Sligo did exactly the same thing their but with the full backing of their party.

It's even funnier to see them giving out about the undoubtedly cowardly antics of the disappearing Labour councillors this time around. Have the missing Sinn Fein councillors who helped introduce the bin tax in the first place found their sick notes yet, Justin?

The charges can be beaten by mass non-payment. That's how ordinary people beat the water tax a few years ago and the poll tax in Britain. Get involved with your local group!

by Phuq Hedd Fri Jan 17, 2003 04:42

(which really hurts!) but there's no getting around it: the "Bin Tax" is an extra tax which is going to be hitting working class families hard. I'm very much in favour of the idea of "polluter pays" but not examining the actual effects of these taxes because one is dazzled by the fair-sounding slogan is going to cost the Greens.

We already pay huge amounts of taxes a portion of which is already supposed to take care of our garbage. If the Green Party wishes to rescind those rates/taxes and then calculate how much waste an average person in a city will produce and then find out how many people live in a house I can see that it _might_ work. As it is it's just double taxation. Even with that proposed scheme there's still the problem that the producer of the Jacob's biscuits which I just ate (which came in two un-neccessary layers of plastic) wasn't me: it was Jacobs. Perhaps a fairer solution is the Random Rubbish Audit:
Green Party activists take random samples of household's refuse. They count up the easily identifiable brands and apportion the costs of disposing of the waste to IBEC members (no? wouldn't happen? Irish businesses would oppose it? OK, let's pick on the already cash-strapped tax-payers).

by MG Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:24

I couldn't agree more with Brian and Phuq Hedd. If the Green Party believes in the polluter pays principle, then companies which produce packaging should be forced to pay for its disposal. The consumer does not choose the amount of plastic that is wrapped around his/her shopping every week.

Also, it is unfair to make people pay for waste disposal when they do not have a proper recycling option available to them. If recycling was available and some people refused to avail of it, then maybe charges might be justified. However, at present, I would have to walk half an hour or get a bus in order to leave glass in the nearest bottle bank - and I live in the centre of Dublin city.

And Brian is 100% right about double taxation and the unfairness of a flat rate. We pay income tax so we can avail of public services. FF/PD has adopted the usual right-wing policy of reducing PAYE and corporate taxes, replacing them with indirect taxes like bin charges, water charges, VAT increases, etc. All of these taxes are weighted disproportionately against ordinary people and in favour of the wealthy. The do not conform with a policy of wealth distribution, which is one of the main reasons for taxation in the first place.

In summary, the Green Party should be ashamed. After all the complaining about Labour's shoddy deal with FF regarding Dail speaking time, the Greens end up doing their own shoddy deal to ensure that the corpo gets to continue fucking Dubliners up the ass on a daily basis.

by Donal Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:18 Cork

Don't forget two other Labour Party sell-out merchants. John Murray and Joe O'Callaghan both sold out on service charges in order to get the Mayoral Chain of Cork around their dirty necks. MacCurtain and McSwiney must have turned in their graves.

by iosaf jedi of the ipsiphi Fri Jan 17, 2003 15:38

23 for 23 against.
by iosaf jedi of the ipsiphi Thu, Jan 16 2003, 8:40pm
[email protected]

solution
recycle your rubbish.
make friends with your neighbours.
do a carpool thing.
if one of your neighbours has a car.
give useful stuff to people who need it.

TV though is toxic.
most people in the global community don´t have cars to carpool.
and they live with open sewers.
----------Anarchy the global policy.

23 is more than a number
it is a way of life.

by ex-green Fri Jan 17, 2003 16:13

I have to say that I voted for the greens in the election in 1999. I am seriously pissed off with them. They have done nothing, they support all the right-wing parties and their extra charges on ordinary people.

In 2002 I voted for Clare Daly. And in future elections I'm voting for the SP. At least Cllr Daly gets stuck into camapigns with ordinary people and actively opposes the shite of the establishment.

by Des Sat Jan 18, 2003 01:24

The cynicism and hypocrisy of some people is truly staggering, just as I predicted, a “deal” was worked out, “local democracy” was saved and working class people were shafted again. On this occasion Justin, it would appear that other councillors got the job of going sick. Maybe they should have given Joe Costello a postal vote. The only way of defeating this unjust double tax is (obviously) a campaign of mass non-payment. BTW Lacey will not be expelled, he loses the labour whip for a period of time. I would suspect that his “casting vote” was arranged with the other “comrades” in advance. I guess that’s “socialism” Ely Place style.
The Greens polluter pays policy is simply a fraud, they are supporting a regressive tax which will bear most heavily on those least able to afford to pay.