EMPEROR'S CLOTHES IS UNDER ATTACK!

by King Mob Mon Apr 22, 2002 22:45

Paul these people are holocast deniers, claiming that there was no masscre in Srebrenica (a masscre so damning the entire Dutch Cabinet and the COF of the army has resigned over.

The video is question disputes the existance of Bosnia death camps, and is being sued by ITN for libel. If you remember the haunting footage of starving Serbs, and to claim that this footage was staged is pretty loathsome.

You're aiding people who are attacking one of the best pieces of mainstream journalism that came out of the 90s

Can I ask what possible justification you have for putting that up?

KM
-Be realistic demand the impossible-

by Daithi Mon Apr 22, 2002 22:57 macsithd at tcd dot ie

Emperor's Clothes is a disgusting site.

I don't want to call for it to be attacked or closed, but I question the judgement of anyone who is trying to raise funds on its behalf.

This reminds me of the debate earlier on the newswire about why "activists" in the South weren't supporting the "struggle" in the North. Choose your causes wisely - I'll defend the free speech rights of sick, filthy, lying scumbag anti-semites but I'm not going to start helping in a fundraising drive to stop it being sued for a lie (an alleged lie).

Anyone posting an appeal like this has a responsibility to (a) read the article and find some background; and (b) be prepared to defend it.

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 23, 2002 00:41

King Mob and others,
The Emperor's Clothes is a paranoid-conspiracy/rumour-mill site which includes speculation from both left and right wing sources. I don't think that they've had any Holocaust Denial material on it though.
W.r.t. the specific incident being mentioned about the supposed "Bosnian concentration camp", this is widely supposed to be untrue. The shots showed a starving man behind barbed wire. Supposedly it was exactly like the NAZI death camps. What is not mentioned is that the man was /outside/ of the barbed wire and the journalist went /inside/ to photgraph him.
I can understand that you would react emotively to what seems to be a denial of the murder of thousands of Bosnian Muslims, but the site doesn't do that. The Bosnian Muslims were murdered all right and women were raped and tortured, but this time the fascists wore different clothes.
And while they were doing that the US/NATO was busy bombing Serbian civilians.
That said, I think that Paul Kinsella could have prepared a short summary instead of posting a line-wrapped, multi-level quoted monstrosity.

by King Mob Tue Apr 23, 2002 01:07

For holocast read genocide, sorry those words have been bantered around too easily these last few days.

But Emperors New Clothes are deining Genocide.

And the claims that the camp photos are forgeries, one look at those poor starved refugees made you understand that a program of Genocide was taking place, mass starvation did occur.

No matter what side of the barbed wire he was on he was a victim of Serbian aggression

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 23, 2002 01:38

King Mob. If anything I should be sorry for having a go at you.

I completely agree that the person in the photo was a victim of Serbian aggression, as were many others. However that particular "death camp" which made it into a British tabloid at first was a lie. It is important to separate out the lies and the truth, especially if we care about being able to prosecute. Otherwise the whole story would be rich pickings for pro-Milosevic Genocide-deniers in the future. "Look," they'd say,"here is incontrovertible evidence that death camps did not exist. Therefore the anti-Milosevic side made ALL of it up!".
One interesting take on this is that a lot of the "death camp" angles were being played up especially hard by "Western" media when NATO was looking for emotional support in bombing Serbian civilians. I'm not sure about the timeline of when the death-camp story broke with regard to the bombing, but I'll bet their very close.
There's a good summary in The Guardian of the War Crimes Tribunal for Yugoslavia with relevant archived articles detailing the murder of Muslims in soccer stadiums etc.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/0,2759,181286,00.html

by King Mob Tue Apr 23, 2002 13:34

The manipulaltion of imagery can lead to dangerous confusion as we see here.

However Emperors New Clothes aren't disputing how the footage was shot they're disputing the very existance of the genocide.

Paul you've kept very quiet......

Is the campaign to keep this sickening site up GR policy (seeing as you posted a GR link at the end of the post) did you actually look at ENC or did you just instinctively forward this? Fill the newswire with more junk.

I'd really like to know.........

But on another note cheers Phuq Head, appreicate the link.

by Daithi Tue Apr 23, 2002 15:26 macsithd at tcd dot ie

Phuq Head - I know that the site doesn't have Holocaust denial stuff on it. But I do recall a glut of previous articles on it about how the evil Jewish bankers and Hollywood types are conspiring to take over the world.

(Also, thanks for the link on the "war crimes" stuff .. much more cogent criticism than the Emperor's Clothes stuff :-) )

Again, I'm not impugning their right to say so; rather, like King Mob, I want to know

* why Paul sees fit to post this ráiméis

* if he would encourage us to send our money to Emperor's Clothes.

* if next time, it could be made a little tidier. This is a newswire, not a forwarding service - at least introduce your junk email or take the annoying >> signs out.

I don't mean to be agressive or rude; I just want to know the full story.

by Phuq Hedd Tue Apr 23, 2002 17:20

The site does publish some very dodgy stuff. But, then again so does Indymedia Newswire. If you look at the Newswire of some of the US indymedias then you'd start to think that they contained only ultra-right drivel and/or statements by the inmates of mental hospitals.

Swiss Indymedia has been taken to court by AKdH (a Holocaust survivor group of some sort) because although they had created an area where they would shove articles that they consider to be garbage (although anyone that wanted to could access them - "hidden" comments) AKdH insists that they must censor them.

Point is that Emperor's Clothes and Indymedia have similar mandates (although Indymedia is much clearer and straightforward about it) : the expression of ideas which do not get mainstream coverage.

I can only guess that Paul Kinsella was forwarded this email by someone else and didn't really know what the hell it was, or else he believes that they have the right to publish what they want and shouldn't be censored (you're right though, he is strangely quiet). Emperor's Clothes is constantly trying to raise money and I suspect that this is one of their scare campaigns.

by Paul Kinsella - Various Tue Apr 23, 2002 18:53 paulkinsella53 at yahoo dot com 53 Lorcan Grove, Santry, Dublin 9, Eire 087 - 9748511

Sorry for been missing from this debate for the 24 hours or so but I was was helping 2 homeless people who had been turfed out onto the streets to get some sort of accomadation. One person has a new bedset in Fairview that's quite modern and very nice and the other person is temporarily staying in a Tourist Hostel (I and a couple of others raised a few bob towards her costs) till she herself gets a flat/bedsite that we're very hopeful she'll get this Friday on the Navan Road. Both had been evicted without warning from their previous rented accomadtion. I notice that NONE of our so-called 'Left' Wing Parties are making any noise whatsoever about our homelessness scandal, or even making an issue of it in their election campaigns/manifestoes. Shame on the lot of them!!

Anyhow getting back to the issue Phuq Hedd you're dead right! I was forwarded this email by someone else, a Jewish (Not that religion should be an issue!) friend of mine who used to live in Israel for over twenty years. Religion and it's twin sister capitalism are to blame for most of the World's ills! You were also right to say that I only had a very quick peep at it, just basically flicking through the headlines. Certainly if I'd have had more time I would definitely have taken out the begging letter part of it out because that basically makes it spam. As you yourself Phuq Hedd said this particular issue doesn't seem to have any Anti Jewish (Note NOT Anti Semitic! Semites included many other people besides Jews!) stuff in this particular issue but having read all your comments it does seem to have had a lot of rabid Anti Jewish stuff on it's site in the past. That's why I was surprised about my friend forwarding it to me but then he has probably seen a lot of their Deplorable, Racist, Anti Jewish Thrash in the past and not forwarded it onto me. Curiously enough this issue of the Emperor's Clothes is strangely and very disappointingly silent on the whole Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I wonder why?

Regarding Globalise Resistance's Web Site Address at the bottom of this Email, I think that that's their British Web Site Address. Certainly some members of the Irish Globalise Resistance Movement, especially those from the SWP group certainly wouldn't subscribe to the Emperor's Clothes view's on Yugoslavia/Serbia, especially those about Slobber Chops Milosevic.

Re Slobber Chops Milosevic, I certainly have no time for the man or for what he stood for. He certainly wasn't Socialist in any known, proper sense of the word. Ultra-Nationalist perhaps even Fascist would be a far better description of the Slobber Chops Milosevic regime. Interesting point though, it wasn't the US/UK led NATO bombing campaign that bombed the s**t out of Yugoslavia that got rid of Milosevic but it was the Ordinary Working Class People and Students of Yugoslavia who rose up and who said: "Enough Is Enough!" And who revolted against all of the repression, poverty and brutality of the Milosevic regime who brought a very rapid end to his reign of terror and corruption.

by King Mob Tue Apr 23, 2002 19:25

Touching about the Homeless people

How interesting

Basically you admit to forwarding a post from someone, that you hadn't even bothered reading.

Paul you're completely and utterly abusing the newswire, and the mendering excuses you give don't change that fact.

You forwarded on an e-mail from an article you hadn't bothered reading nor even looking at the website it was asking to defend.

This is the kind of nonsense abuse that is destroying Indymedia and if you'd have any respect, for this site and the people working on it, you'd apologise and think LONG AND HARD before you start forwarding crap and using the newswire to support organisations you can't even defend.

by Heavily Armed - Continuity Army Council (CAC) Irish Republican Army (IRA) Tue Apr 23, 2002 21:42 Newry, the Republic of Ireland

From the Continuity Army Council (CAC) Irish Republican Army (IRA):

FAO: King Mob

King Mob,

What do you have against Paul Kinsella?
Is it personal?
Why won't you reveal your name?
What is your Political Affiliation?

We in the CAC IRA want to know.
Please forward your reply to us before 12 Midnight tonight (00:00) (Tuesday April 23RD) Irish Time on this Newsire or else we will be forced to pursue this further.

by Heavily Armed - Continuity Army Council (CAC) Irish Republican Army (IRA) Tue Apr 23, 2002 22:19 Newry, the Republic of Ireland

We forgot to add and it would be a life threatening or at the very least a knnecapping offence for us if we had forgotten to mention it, why don't King Mob and Paul Kinsella come head to head in a masked duel, seen as how one of them doesn't want identify themselves. We'll supply the Masks (Balacalvas or if you'se prefer Tights/NYLON Stockings) and we'll supply the shooters (9mm UZI Sub-Machine Guns). This will settle the duel of all duels once and for all. Of course one poor bastard will be dead but then that's life. All is fair game in the pursuit of the Revolution.

by KING MOB Tue Apr 23, 2002 22:53

My weapon of choice for the duel will be old copies of the socialist worker paper mached into a mace like shape.

Which frankly makes me better armed that the Cotinuity IRA right now.

And frankly me reasons me idenity and me poltical affilitation are no-one of youses business.

do your worst......

by Rupert Murdoch - Sky Digital Tue Apr 23, 2002 23:15 London

This will of course be a pay-per-view event. All major credit cards and debit cards are accepted. Donations also welcome.

Our 23 1/2 hour booking line is now open at 1800-CACIRA.

by Armed and Masked! - Armed and Masked! Wed Apr 24, 2002 01:22 Ireland unfree shall never be at peace!

Yeah! This sounds really cool! An Armed and Masked Duel between the 2 heavyweights of the IMC Eire Newswire - Messrs Paul Kinsella and King Mob! The only unfortunate thing is that in my occupation which is a very high risk occupation there's a very real chance that I may not be alive to see this Classic Armed and Masked Duel between Messrs Paul Kinsella and King Mob! Ps. Paul Kinsella Hello! Are you there!? Remember the fuss over the lack of people turning up for the Anti Bin Tax Protests outside City Hall? Remember the offer that I made about sorting out your problem? That was my offer to set up an Armed and Masked Protest outside City Hall. Paul Kinsella Hello! Are you there!? Well that offer still stands for your next protest that you said would take place on Monday May 27TH. This would be a True Protest! And a Protest with a difference! You would certainly get noticed! BTW. It's nice to see that there are still some Genuine Revolutionaries out there not the namby-pamby, pinko, bleeding heart, liberal, gay, faggot pretenders. I'm talking about our Comrades In Arms in the CAC (Continuity Army Council ) IRA (Irish Republican Army)! CIRA! CIRA! CIRA! CIRA! Tiocfaidh Ar La! Tiocfaidh Ar La!