Indymedia has become crap

by imcer Mon Dec 16, 2002 14:43

Don't forget King Mob

by Ray Mon Dec 16, 2002 14:47

What do you suggest?

(If you want to see a higher proportion of original news on here, and a lower proportion of criticism, the best way to do that is to write more articles yourself.)

by Mario Andretti Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:02

The site is indeed crap. Full of factually incorrect "news" and political comment and articles inciting hatered.

by Indymedia hater Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:10

I hate the indymedia newswire because:
1. Silly postings
2. Various lefts bickering
3. People just slagging off SWP
4. People just slagging off SP
5. People just slagging off WSM
6. There is a a rise in left-republicans and nationalists using it.
7. There is a low political level
8. Lack of genuine discussion of news topics
9. It's Pathetic
10. Ray, Pat C et al will reply to this posting slagging me off!

by Anonymous - Left- Wing Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:31

I certainly do not think the site should be scrapped. Name another site in Ireland where you can get a range of alternative news to the news we all get from the right wing biased mainstream??

But it may need to be modifyed and I agree with the comment "People like Pat C and some other anonomous types have brought the newswire down to their level and ruined it for everyone else."

Political comments should be totally contained to after news postings and should never be made a posting unto themselves.

A monitor may need to be put in place to enforce this but I am sure the cost factor of this for IMC is at presnet unfeasible.

Maybe persistnet culprits of this could have their I.S.D. number blocked or something.

The slagging off is indeed total shite and puts one off coming onto the site, but people who create these postings must be just treated as 10 year olds (indeed they very well maybe) and more mature people should just ignore it and read the news postings and engage in civilised, intelligent debates etc. etc.

The ring-wing mainstream media is becoming more and more centrailsed. Everything from the main tv stations in Ireland and national newspapers down to provincial papers and local media stations are increaslingly been bought out or merging and increasingly falling into the hands of fewer and fewer fat cats. Everything from the Irish Examiner to the Limerick Leader.

This has to be challenged. To scrap this site is certainly not the answer.

I applaud IMC and their initiative and to everyone of decent mind who has contributed or read this site.

Despite the painful slagging off and those who incite hatred, I believe it still remains an excellent site and one that is badly needed in this insane world of ours.

by Saint Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:49

I agree with the original posting to a certain degree.
When I first visited indymedia Ireland I wanted to get more information "News" for other campaigns/Activits.

Instead there tends to be a stead stream of people using the news column to rant about something that's bugging them.

I suggest we ask yourselves simply, "I'm publishing news or can this wait for the pub".

think before posting it better for everyone.

by anarcho watcher Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:49

The problem with IMC Ireland is that anarchist dominate it. What we need is moderation of the newswire so that a whole load of shit doesn't go on it. But those anarcho-fucks dont want to do that because it goes against their failed ideology

by The Joeys Mon Dec 16, 2002 15:50

There is also a problem

by JMayler - Bristol indy Mon Dec 16, 2002 16:03

Just hide all the crap, all IMC's get bombarded with rubbish posts. Here in Bristol we have stated that we only want stories that are 'directly related' to the bristol or southwest. This gives us the freedom to hide the crazed conspiracy nut posts.
The other thing we will be doing shortly is moving over to the San Francisco style page. (have a look) this means that local posts are moved to a prominant position and all the 'global' - (mostly non news items) appear lower down the page- They still appear so they dont seem to get as many 'censorship screamer' posts.
Remember IMC'ers This page exists thanks to your efforts, you can hide any crap you want, sure some will scream but remember a hidden post is only ONE EXTRA MOUSECLICK AWAY.
The site exists to provide a forum for NEWS, if it aint news, and someone starts posting "you have censored me posts" add the original article to the new "you have censored me post" and outline why you hid the rubbish in the first place.

by Ruairi Mon Dec 16, 2002 16:16

Why all this anonymous abuse?

I suspect the Gardai, the bitchers and the bemoaners are hard at it.

Onwards and Upwards and laughs towards the lame critiques.

by iosaf - transnational indymedia posters Mon Dec 16, 2002 18:24 barcelona

and deal with the shit.
life is full of shit.
we are a collective of ordianry people many of us living far below the poverty line scattered throughout the world writing sometimes badly but almost always passionately in our own languages ahd others for our own people and others.
Ireland has more reason to be international than Bristol, bristol is a secondary city in England served by the UK indymedia site.
Ireland represents the diasporia of Irish people most of whom don´t live on craggy island anymore.

so when you see an article you like link to it.

by imcer Mon Dec 16, 2002 18:44

and really really needs more people willing to take the jump from consuming it to producing it -

I know that there are oodles of people reading the site each day - that's great but we need more people to write original material and even moreso we need more people to join the mailing lists and get involved in producing feature articles and contributing to Technical help/support.

IMC is meant to be a collective of all those who use it. That is the ideal. The reality is that a very small number of people moderate the site / take care of technical issues/ and construct the feature articles. If y'all out there really want it to work you need to add some value to it - write - construct features - help with tech - that way we might have enough hours between us to really take a look at the site and it's shortcomings and work towards an IMC Mark II next year.

http://www.indymedia.ie/about/mailinglists.html

by iosaf Mon Dec 16, 2002 22:42

first remember you will get criticism.
take a deep breath.

decide your topic.

you may look at your commercial media, or even listen to RTE for an "idea".
Now research your idea.
http://reuters.com and http://cnn.com
will bring you to the official western news agencies.
This is where your newspaper and radio get their news from.
then go to http://google.com
put in the keywords from your article.
see what you come up with.

now take another deep breath.
you are now at the dangerous "cut and paste" stage, and no-one likes that.
so don´t do it. links will do.
think is this relevant to Ireland or Irish people now or in the future?
you may think on future Irish issues some of these are
Oil exploration in the Rockall zone, Internet copyright, the Peace process in the north, the relationship with the diasporia [those millions of people who let´s be honest can´t be arsed to return to craggy island], Irish involvment in genetic research, Irelands global role.

oh that´s a big one.
You amy also like to approach other issues like
animals, cars or poor people or drugs.
don´t worry about homelessness becuase young Fine Gael are busy preparing policies on that, jsut wait their website will be updated soon, and they´ll suprise us all.

Now one thing we never see here in indymedia ireland is an interview with a poor person.
THere are lots of poor people out there, you amy inquire of your neighbours do they have enough for the basic costs of life, if they don´t then pop the question
"Would you agree to an interview I´m tired of reading those damn amateurs on indymedia, and i think you have lots to say?"

And while I´m at it, on the YFG thing, those little careerists have joked about buying posters of Mussolini.
Ha bloody ha.
Today Italy is discussing preventative arrests, the spokespeople of an Italian anarchist anti-globalist grouping known as "disobedienti" were arrested last week on Thursay and Friday in Copenhagen, a bit like minority report, they were arrested for what they might do or encourage others to do. Interesting stuff.
Now apparently it´s euro-policy that Young Fine Gael´s allies on the continent like, some of Young Fine Gael´s allies on the continent have posters of Hitler as well as Mussolini you know, and wasn´t the grandaughter a member of an assocaited party to YFG?
interesting associations.
oh just associations.
it´s not like they ever meet up and discuss things is it? or is it?
where can a YFG stay for holidays in Italy if just for a short time?
all jokes aside, I particularly recommend reading these two articles on other indymedia sites to get a hang of how things are when they really inspire.
the first is a report from Iraq.
the second is transaltions by irlandesa of letters between a judge in Madrid and a young anarchist believed to live in the Chiapas mountains of Mexico, but it´s been 2 years since anyone photographed him. This is his reply to a challenge by that Madrid judge to take off his mask, in it he has proposed an ETA ceasefire.
I admire this man´s sense of humour maybe you will too.

1. http://alberta.indymedia.org/#60
2. http://chiapas.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=103816

and if you´re into off beat stuff then look for anomalies in stuff in the news.
You might think of researching the European Space program.
Or you might think of finding Osama.
or you might give us a list of people you don´t like.
one on FF or the PDs would be great.

by Bill Lowry, gi us a job Tue Dec 17, 2002 01:03

Indymedia is indeed crap, i'm an oul nazi, and it makes my blood boil, that anyone would give communists, socialists, anarchists and republicans the chance to have their say, and express their veiwpoints. i'm raging, and i shall never read it again, i'm going home to cry to my mammie, i hate poor people being able to have their say, their hatred of their social class betters, respectable rich and distinguished professionals and pillars of society is blasphemous and makes me feel scared, and i've no reply to their criticisms and they always win their points, and make me look like the stupid guillible backward victorian fuk that i am.

by Intransigent Tue Dec 17, 2002 02:29

All you are achieving is bringing the reputation of this site down even further. You have said absolutely nothing with any relevance though you probably maintain that you have. If we all stopped attacking each other then perhaps intellectual debate at some level may creep into the newswire. I don't know myabe I'm just a utopian? All I know is that this hatred towards anyone and everyone achieves nothing. Anarcho Watcher, King Mob, Pat C and various others it's time to cut this shit out. The only way that we can change the way that this site operates is from the users of the site actually doing this. Anything imposed from the people who run the site will just cause outrage. So just think about it and use your heads for once. Let's actually get some proper political debate going not the same old same old petty sectarianism. Anarcho Watcher please stop I'm no anarchist, not one bit well maybe a little, but you're posts make me sick. Pointless waste of space!

by pat c Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:58

whats really going on here is an attempt to drive all articles from a socialist republican point of view off indymedia. the lifestyle-"anarchists" & "trotskyists" who support the "right" of the orange order to march down the garvaghy road dont really believe anyone should be allowed to disagree with them.

they will call people nationalists, catholic-nationalists and even fascists. they then reacxt with astonishment and outrage if anyone retaliates.

you people can give it but you cant take it.

i have on numerous occasions suggested that people agree to disagree on the national question. all that happens is that people accuse me of being afraid to debate.

lets debate issues on their merits. if we are talking about RTS or Shannon, then theres no need to bring the national question into it. but repeatedly, some people uise any thread to attack republicans.

by Wee pet Tue Dec 17, 2002 13:25

I do not believe the IMC is responsible for all the crap. The IMC is a tool and it is up to us to use it better. Maybe if youse were not busy talking shite and get the fuck out and do something, the news would be far more interesting.
Guardai, oh aye and so what? what can they do?
The problem is the crap put on by the fucking middle class pseudo intellectuals and idealist students (who get their rent pay).
For the anarchists, fuck, I wish they were the problem. The best comes out of us (anarchists) only when we are a problem for the middle class twats.
At the end of the day, we are the media and we are shite. The IMC cannot be responsible for the weakness of the anti capitalist movement in Ireland or else where.

by Confused anti-capitalist Wed Dec 18, 2002 16:43

I've come to the conclusion that the anti-capitalist movement is crap.

I once thought that it was great that there was this broad movement emerging that included Anarchists, socialists, liberals, anarcho-socialists, etc.

However over the past while i've come to see that in reality the movement is crap. It is dominated by a load of liberal middle class types that are vert conscious about not being workers, they are consciously hostile to workers and workers' struggles. They impose their ideology on other groups by wanting events to be 'non-party-political' For fucks sake you're meant to be involved in an anti-capitalist movement- it is political!!!

In saying this there are large amounts of people in the 'movement' that are progressive and are open to genuine activism. But there are also elements that are right-wing and regressive. I call them this becuase their analysis of society is right-wing (they beleive the individual is all important) and the are regressive because they do not see any alternative to capitalism and just want to 'turn back the clock'.

Indymedia is crap because much of those on the newswire are crap politically.

by Andrew Wed Dec 18, 2002 17:23

"vert conscious about not being workers, they are consciously hostile to workers and workers' struggles. They impose their ideology on other groups by wanting events to be 'non-party-political'"

More leninist gripping. So to be working class you apperantly have to support party politics (this despite the fact that party politics in this country as elsewhere is the preserve of the business man and the speculator). Presumably the Argentinian workers who have ceased their factories but are also hostile to political parties are not part of the working class for the same reason. See http://struggle.ws/wsm/ws/2002/73/argentina.html

In reality this post is a prime example of the stupidity of what passes for the left in this country. Again and again we see this - 'so and so does not agree with me, therefore they are not working class' argument. Translated what this means is 'I have no answer for what so and so says so this will have to do'. It's moronic, it's off putting to new activists but perhaps worst it obscures what we (the left) actually mean by the working class. Seeing as part of our (common) goal is encouraging class unity this sort of behaviour is childishly counter-productive. In case you are interested here is how I define the working class http://struggle.ws/ws91/class31.html

Finally and most importantly the anonymous SP member (your political affliation comrade is transparent from your method of argument) writes "For fucks sake you're meant to be involved in an anti-capitalist movement- it is political!!!"

I'd suggest that they (we) understand something you seem unable to. And this is that is is quite possible to be political and to 'do politics' without being a member of or even following a particular political organisation. And even more so 'party politics' is not so much about the sort of politics we want to do, it is more about one gang aiming to get into power at the expense of another.

by bob Wed Dec 18, 2002 18:42

I understand that Andrew and his followers have a problem with parties- that's ok, i've no problem with that.

What I do have a problem wiht is that you IMPOSE that idea on everyone else. Why should there not be speakers from SWP, SP, Greens etc at demos, marches, protests etc? why? they are involved in politics just as much as you are.

by iosaf Wed Dec 18, 2002 22:46

we don´t object to the leaders of other parties per-se,
we object to the hijacking of street based activity by those who would claim to be leaders of all on that street at that time.

I often speak to leaders of Red, Green, and White factions amongst others, today I spoke to an imam who regularly stewards his faithful in demonstrations here.
Now I don´t think his faithful need be led by him, but they wish to be, so there you go.
they walk down the street reclaiming it from the usual propaganda and cars shouting their little bit in arabic which has now word for mortgage or clone by the way, and then go home.
cool.
They don´t shout at everyone, and they don´t presume to take credit for every body on the street describing them as "ignorant lumpen proletariat".
do you get the point?

by Chekov Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:44

I assume that when Bob talks about imposing our ideas on everyone else he's talking about the beatings that we regularly dish out to any party-political types on demos, or maybe it's the way that we send vast numbers of party-supporters to the gulags when they refuse to be re-educated, or maybe it's the way that we break up the meetings of political parties with bands of thugs.

Actually what Bob is really saying is SHUT UP criticising us - fair enough be anarchists but don't argue against parties, that might deter some of the naive suckers that we are out to recruit. Bob let's have one single example of anarchists IMPOSING (n.b. arguing against something is not IMPOSING) their dislike of parties on other people - otherwise you're just going to have to put up with the fact that if you go around trying to reconstruct political projects and parties that have failed disasterously and should have been put down long ago, people are going to keep calling you on it.