Israel Bulldozes House and Kills 70 Year Old Man Inside

by Pat C Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:54

""catholics still suffer greater unemployment rates than protestants"

Thats because they drink to much and lack the Protestant work ethic. "

now if that had been sdaid about any other race or religion it would have been quickly deleted from indy. but who cares about northern catholics. at least it exposes pauls as a zionist racist.

"Pat, for example, spends his entire day on indymedia instead of doing the work he's paid for."

how come paul has all day to read my comments? shouldn't he be out making the desert bloom? or bulldozing palestinian olive groves?

by Des Mon Dec 02, 2002 22:59

How many times does it have to be said, the Settlers are NOT civilians, they are heavily armed and have committed numerous crimes against the Palestinian population in the areas they are illegally livng in, in their "settlements". The North American Indians resisted being ethnically cleansed, the Palestinian people are doing the same.

by Eoin Meanyh Mon Dec 02, 2002 22:42 xoin at hotmail dot com

What chance is there of peace if each side constantly seeks justification for killing civilians on the other side?

by Nicholas Mon Dec 02, 2002 21:02

Please do not twist my words. I said "sometimes murderous". By which I meant that some Palestinian refugees sometimes murder Israeli Jews.

The murder of Jews contributes to the problem by giving oppressors the excuse they need to kill more Palestinians. Every time Hamas and Jihad kill (and do read something about their political views at some point - e.g. their attitude to women and non-Muslims - if they're not Nazis their ideas are just as warped) they bring more terror on the community they claim to represent.

And how dare you start any of this "what side you're really on" crap? This George W Bush / Stalinist attitude of "You're either with us or against us" crap is really the most counterproductive sectarian posturing on Indymedia. I am not in favour of mindless Republican or Palestinian thuggery and I am also against Murderous and Oppressive Imperialism from America and Europe. How dare you say that I am on the Israeli's side - I explicitly said "Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people" and did not refer to the Palestinian people's oppression of Israel, because it does not exist. I happen not to buy Israeli goods. Does that put me on Israel's side?

Why do people like you deliberately try to alienate everybody who might possibly agree with you on some points? Do you really want to turn us all against you or what?

by pat c Mon Dec 02, 2002 18:54

"Pat C, I have no idea what you think a croppy lie down agenda is, but yes I do not like people killing in the name of "defending themselves"."

so people dont have a right to fight back against imperialism; you are effectively taking the side of the oppressor.

"I said that the ordinary Israeli people do not benefit from their government's oppression of the Palestinians "

as i have pointed out you are wrong.

"Ordinary protestants may be better off than ordinary catholics but they do not benefit from the injustice that has impoverished their Catholic neighbours - they also lose, or do you think the Shankhill Road is awash with money from the Unionist establishment."

no i dont think the shankill road is awash with money. but people from the shankill road want to ethnically cleanse taigs from the falls road. the reverse is not the case. protestants tru jobs in ruc, screws, udr etc benefied from the war in the north.

"The majority of settlers in Israel are ultra-orthodox sects. The majority of Israelis have now been living there for a number of generations."

i am talking about the settlers in the OCCUPIED TERRITORIES not the state of israel. again i could go thru various economic & social factors to show how israeli workers are better off than israeli arabs.

if you are supporting the right of settlers to remain in the areas seized in 1967 then thers little point in continuing the debate.

"Having impoverished, oppressed, antagonistic and sometimes murderous neighbours does not benefit the people of Tel Aviv."

oh yes it does re having a cheap supply of labour.
the fact that you refer to palestinians as murderous shows which side your sypathies are on.

"And by the way, do you disagree with my basic point, which is that there are Nazis on both sides? Or do you see Hamas and Jihad as leading the liberation struggle?"

i dont agree with hamas or jihad but they are not nazis. if you were an anti-imperialist you woukd differentiate between the violence of the oppressor & that of the oppressed.

by Nicholas Mon Dec 02, 2002 18:01 Cork

Pat C, I have no idea what you think a croppy lie down agenda is, but yes I do not like people killing in the name of "defending themselves".

I said that the ordinary Israeli people do not benefit from their government's oppression of the Palestinians like ordinary protestants. I stand by what I said. Ordinary protestants may be better off than ordinary catholics but they do not benefit from the injustice that has impoverished their Catholic neighbours - they also lose, or do you think the Shankhill Road is awash with money from the Unionist establishment. The majority of settlers in Israel are ultra-orthodox sects. The majority of Israelis have now been living there for a number of generations. Having impoverished, oppressed, antagonistic and sometimes murderous neighbours does not benefit the people of Tel Aviv.

And by the way, do you disagree with my basic point, which is that there are Nazis on both sides? Or do you see Hamas and Jihad as leading the liberation struggle?

by Paul S Mon Dec 02, 2002 17:29

"catholics still suffer greater unemployment rates than protestants"

Thats because they drink to much and lack the Protestant work ethic. Pat, for example, spends his entire day on indymedia instead of doing the work he's paid for.

by pat c Mon Dec 02, 2002 13:41

"pat c is stuck in a sectarian mindset that requires that the whole of the "other side" is benefiting from oppression. Ordinary Israelis benefit from the oppression of the Palestinian people no more than ordinary Northern Irish protestants benefit from their sectarian leadership."

it is quite obvioius that nicholas has an agenda here - a Croppy Lie Down one.

ordinary israelis do benefit from the oppression of palestinians- they get to occupy palestinian land. palestinians are prevented from trading so israeli small business men clean up.

all adult settlers in the Occupied territories are armed. effectively they form a proto-fascist militia which is gradually ethnically cleansing palestinians from their land. these settlers are, in the main, workers & small business people.

the real sectarian mindset is one which refusers to recognise this.

catholics still suffer greater unemployment rates than protestants.

over 90% of sectarian attacks are carried out by loyalists.
- this is where the real sectarianism is.

by Nicholas Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:44 Cork

I wish the lot of you would stop labelling entire communities as Nazis. There are plenty of enlightened peace & justice activists on both sides of the Palestinian/Israeli divide. There is no way that the young children who are murdered, can be labelled Zionazis or fundamentalist Muslim terrorists.

pat c is stuck in a sectarian mindset that requires that the whole of the "other side" is benefiting from oppression. Ordinary Israelis benefit from the oppression of the Palestinian people no more than ordinary Northern Irish protestants benefit from their sectarian leadership.

The same goes for idiots who think that people can be kicked out of their homes, murdered, have their farms destroyed etc. and it's all their fault because they're terrorists.

by pat c Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:30

palestinian children are shot down for throwing stones. the figures speak for themselves.

by Joel Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:12

Why not check learn how Palestinian Islamo Nazis murder Israeli children. Check out these 3 sites.

http://www.jr.co.il/terror/israel/index.html

http://www.e-bski.org/Israel/Gimmon.htm

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=3328